Quantcast

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Trinity is still the superior combat mechanic, by a large margin.

1679111215

Comments

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977

    Are really people touting bad design/huge class imbalances as something good?

    One would think that years of flawed design in EQ1/EQ2 (also Vanguard), even early wow would actually teach people something.

    Apparently not (yup, look below, perfect example)

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    snip

    But why stop there?

    Why do all the tank classes can tank the same bosses?

    Why do all DPS classes can damage the same bosses?

    Why do all healing classes can heal the same damage?

    In holy trinity games all healing classes are already the same, all dps classes are already the same (ranged or melee) all tank classes are already the same.

    You have 3 classes and then tons of different graphics.

    You clearly do not know what you are talking about. Certain classes are better at different aspects of their role. 

    So true.. So true..  During the time I played WoW, I had multiple raid ready characters..  One was my MT healer (Holy Pally), my other was a Holy Priest.. Then I had my Mage, Warlock and Hunter.. None of my characters played the same.. My only issue was Blizzards "homogenizing" the classes for PvP balance reasons, which took away a lot of options for diverse PvE fun.. 

  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    But why stop there?

    Why do all the tank classes can tank the same bosses?

    Why do all DPS classes can damage the same bosses?

    Why do all healing classes can heal the same damage?

    In holy trinity games all healing classes are already the same, all dps classes are already the same (ranged or melee) all tank classes are already the same.

    You have 3 classes and then tons of different graphics.

    You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. The holy trinity was warrior/cleric/enchanter, but those were hardly the only roles in Everquest. Groups also needed dps and would look for a puller and snares.

    • You thing druids or shaman played anything like a cleric? While both were healers, they played very different roles. Which one could fill the role of slower?
    • You think a shadowknight or paladin played like a warrior? Which of the three was the worst at snap agro? Which could fill the Snare role in a group?
    • You think all dps was the same? Which could fill the snare role? Which could off-tank? Which could offer buffs or CC in a pinch? Which could pull new party members to camp, at the bottom of a dungeon?

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    Are really people touting bad design/huge class imbalances as something good?

    One would think that years of flawed design in EQ1/EQ2 (also Vanguard), even early wow would actually teach people something.

    Apparently not (yup, look below, perfect example)

    Years of playing EQ/EQ2 and Vanguard, followed by years of playing other MMO's, have taught me something.

     

    Diverse classes with unique capabilities are important to immersion and teamwork, unlike more modern MMO's where there are only 2-3 solo classes with homogenized abilities and a variety of skins.

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by Nightbringe1
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    Are really people touting bad design/huge class imbalances as something good?

    One would think that years of flawed design in EQ1/EQ2 (also Vanguard), even early wow would actually teach people something.

    Apparently not (yup, look below, perfect example)

    Years of playing EQ/EQ2 and Vanguard, followed by years of playing other MMO's, have taught me something.

     

    Diverse classes with unique capabilities are important to immersion and teamwork, unlike more modern MMO's where there are only 2-3 solo classes with homogenized abilities and a variety of skins.

    Ah, yeah, so MMOs should follow deeply flawed class design with huge imbalances so you can be "immersed". All because it worked so well in the past and no game stepped away from such design.

    Right.

    Unfortunately, huge class imbalances are also not unique to trinity. You can have perfecty imbalanced non trinity game too. But that also wont happen.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,065

    Suddenly the poster child for the holy trinity is EQ...

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    Ah, yeah, so MMOs should follow deeply flawed class design with huge imbalances so you can be "immersed". All because it worked so well in the past and no game stepped away from such design.

    Flawed class design is over homogenization and lack of diversity.

    Flawed games designed for a generation where every child was told he was special and given a trophy for participation.

     

    And yes, Everquest worked so well it is still alive, with 21 expansions, 16 years later, unlike modern games with their population collapses 2-3 months after launch.

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    Suddenly the poster child for the holy trinity is EQ...

    Where do you think the term originated?

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,858
    Originally posted by Nightbringe1
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    Suddenly the poster child for the holy trinity is EQ...

    Where do you think the term originated?

    The bible?

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by Nightbringe1
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    Ah, yeah, so MMOs should follow deeply flawed class design with huge imbalances so you can be "immersed". All because it worked so well in the past and no game stepped away from such design.

    Flawed class design is over homogenization and lack of diversity.

    Flawed games designed for a generation where every child was told he was special and given a trophy for participation.

     

    And yes, Everquest worked so well it is still alive, with 21 expansions, 16 years later, unlike modern games with their population collapses 2-3 months after launch.

    Ah, yes, because "right" design is where youre "special snowflake" just for playing "right" class. rofl

    EQ worked so well, thet when "worst MMO in history" released everyone jumped EQ ship. WoW ewas nothign more than EQ with (obvious) flaws removed. And it continued to evolve and today we have:

    WoW: 10 000 000

    EQ: 10 000

    Words are really redundant at this point.

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    And rotations are not trinity exclusive, and fundamentally have nothing to do with trinity.

    You can have trinity with only one button for each class (taunt/heal/damage), and you can have non trinity game with 852 skills and 351 button presses to get skill off.

    He called the classes "the same".

    The actual player experience is they aren't the same.

    The trinity isn't responsible for making classes feel different.  That's what the rotations do. 

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    And rotations are not trinity exclusive, and fundamentally have nothing to do with trinity.

    You can have trinity with only one button for each class (taunt/heal/damage), and you can have non trinity game with 852 skills and 351 button presses to get skill off.

    Yes, but these classes are being called "the same" because they all heal, or whatever.  But when you actually play these games, the experience is they are not the same.  The rotations make them different.  The trinity isn't responsible for making two healers play differently.

    They are same as far as trinity is concerned.

    Tank is a tank, and will tank and so on.

    Encounter doesnt change just because you play different class, and rotations are irrelevant. tank doesnt have healing or dps rotation, nor will mob ever do something unexpected, because trinity demands tight non changing beahvior (aka dumb AI)

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    Suddenly the poster child for the holy trinity is EQ...

    The more you post, the more I wonder if you're a university experiment in bot AI or just Wizardry's drunken alt account. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    They are same as far as trinity is concerned.

    Tank is a tank, and will tank and so on.

    Encounter doesnt change just because you play different class, and rotations are irrelevant. tank doesnt have healing or dps rotation, nor will mob ever do something unexpected, because trinity demands tight non changing beahvior (aka dumb AI)

    Right, but that distinction is utterly meaningless as far as players are concerned.  All players care about is that each class plays distinctly.  The trinity establishes critical, distinct roles for each player to perform, and that's its one job and it does it fine.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • ArtificeVenatusArtificeVenatus Member UncommonPosts: 1,236
    edited September 2015
     
    Post edited by ArtificeVenatus on
  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    WoW: 10 000 000

    EQ: 10 000

    Words are really redundant at this point.

    *McDonalds restaurants: 35,000

    *3 Star Michelin restaurants: 200

    Obviously...McDonalds is the better restaurant!

     

    *Justin Bieber fans: 40,000,000

    *Edith Piaf fans: 32,000

    Obviously Justin Bieber is the better singer!

     

    You can use this same argument to support your preference of action MMO.

    *Korean action MMO: 1,000,000,000,000+ (probably more, but who's counting at this point, a new MMO is announced every hour)

    *Trinity MMO: 30

     

     

    Your logic is infallable.....the more players -> the better the game....durr!! Candy crush is the best game ever!

    Logic out the window, who needs it anyway! Mash buttons!

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    WoW: 10 000 000

    EQ: 10 000

    Words are really redundant at this point.

    *McDonalds restaurants: 35,000

    *3 Star Michelin restaurants: 200

    Obviously...McDonalds is the better restaurant!

     

    *Justin Bieber fans: 40,000,000

    *Edith Piaf fans: 32,000

    Obviously Justin Bieber is the better singer!

     

    You can use this same argument to support your preference of action MMO.

    *Korean action MMO: 1,000,000,000,000+ (probably more, but who's counting at this point, a new MMO is announced every hour)

    *Trinity MMO: 30

     

     

    Your logic is infallable.....the more players -> the better the game....durr!!

    Except all those who ate at MMOs michelin star and listened MMOs edit piaf jumped ship to MMOs Bieber.

    So yeah, MMOs Bieber was better than MMOs michelin star and edit piaf combined. Or youre saying that vast majority of those who used to eat at michelins star and listened to edit piaf are some retards that cant tell left from right lol

    So yeah, MMOs Bieber caused MMOs michelin star and edit piaf to vanish.

    In fact, most of those who used MMOs michelin star and edit piaf saw them for what they really were, poor copies, "michelin star" was just napking with a star drawn on and "edit piaf" was poor imitator form some country region.

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    So yeah, MMOs Bieber caused MMOs michelin star and edit piaf to vanish.

    Ok, have fun in your button mashing action MMO then. When those games get any form of community, let us know.

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    So yeah, MMOs Bieber caused MMOs michelin star and edit piaf to vanish.

    Ok, have fun in your button mashing action MMO then. When those games get any form of community, let us know.

    Thank you, community is better than in any "old school" game, can you imagine, people hang out now because they WANT to not because they HAVE to.

    Im sorry that you cant find anyone that wants to hang out with you, but thats not really games problem.

  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    WoW: 10 000 000

    EQ: 10 000

    Words are really redundant at this point.

    *McDonalds restaurants: 35,000

    *3 Star Michelin restaurants: 200

    Obviously...McDonalds is the better restaurant!

     

    *Justin Bieber fans: 40,000,000

    *Edith Piaf fans: 32,000

    Obviously Justin Bieber is the better singer!

    You can use this same argument to support your preference of action MMO.

    *Korean action MMO: 1,000,000,000,000+ (probably more, but who's counting at this point, a new MMO is announced every hour)

    *Trinity MMO: 30

    Your logic is infallable.....the more players -> the better the game....durr!!

    Except all those who ate at MMOs michelin star and listened MMOs edit piaf jumped ship to MMOs Bieber.

    So yeah, MMOs Bieber was better than MMOs michelin star and edit piaf combined. Or youre saying that vast majority of those who used to eat at michelins star and listened to edit piaf are some retards that cant tell left from right lol

    So yeah, MMOs Bieber caused MMOs michelin star and edit piaf to vanish.

    errr no.

    I listen to Edith Piaf at least weekly, I have never deliberately listened to Justin Bieber

    I have eaten at the equivalent of Michelin 3 star restaurants several times in the last twelve months, I have not eaten at McDonald's in a very very long time.

    I play tab-target MMORPG's I never play "twitch combat" MMO's.

     

    Jusitin Beiber is already fading into obscurity, Edith Piaf will be listened to in a 100 years time.

    McDonald's may last for quite a while yet but will eventually die, Michelin 3 star restaurants will be around forever.

    Who knows with MMO's?

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    community is better than in any "old school" game, can you imagine, people hang out now because they WANT to not because they HAVE to.

    show us an example of people trading in one of your action MMO

    show us how great those communities in today's MMO are

     

    this is an example of people in Everquest trading goods:

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130

    Here is another example for you.

    Remember how we told you that in trinity MMO, not everyone can fulfill the same role?

    Remember how you "depended on each other".

    This is what happened in Everquest when one of those classes you depended on casted a mas group buff.

     

    You know what all those people sitting together and talking to each other is called? A COMMUNITY

    Know what today's MMO where everyone can solo, where MMO die within a few years, don't have? A COMMUNITY

     

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    WoW: 10 000 000

    EQ: 10 000

    Words are really redundant at this point.

    *McDonalds restaurants: 35,000

    *3 Star Michelin restaurants: 200

    Obviously...McDonalds is the better restaurant!

     

    *Justin Bieber fans: 40,000,000

    *Edith Piaf fans: 32,000

    Obviously Justin Bieber is the better singer!

    You can use this same argument to support your preference of action MMO.

    *Korean action MMO: 1,000,000,000,000+ (probably more, but who's counting at this point, a new MMO is announced every hour)

    *Trinity MMO: 30

    Your logic is infallable.....the more players -> the better the game....durr!!

    Except all those who ate at MMOs michelin star and listened MMOs edit piaf jumped ship to MMOs Bieber.

    So yeah, MMOs Bieber was better than MMOs michelin star and edit piaf combined. Or youre saying that vast majority of those who used to eat at michelins star and listened to edit piaf are some retards that cant tell left from right lol

    So yeah, MMOs Bieber caused MMOs michelin star and edit piaf to vanish.

    errr no.

    I listen to Edith Piaf at least weekly, I have never deliberately listened to Justin Bieber

    I have eaten at the equivalent of Michelin 3 star restaurants several times in the last twelve months, I have not eaten at McDonald's in a very very long time.

    I play tab-target MMORPG's I never play "twitch combat" MMO's.

     

    Jusitin Beiber is already fading into obscurity, Edith Piaf will be listened to in a 100 years time.

    McDonald's may last for quite a while yet but will eventually die, Michelin 3 star restaurants will be around forever.

    Who knows with MMO's?

    EQ already faded away, so its even retarded to compare it to edit piaf. WoW OTOH will be remebered as THE great mmo of our age, EQ is lready remembered as very clumsy attempt at the game.

    @Kiyoris just read my previous post, its stupid to quote myself just few posts later because people dont want to read (or more likely intentionally ignore facts)

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    EQ is lready remembered as very clumsy attempt at the game.

    Yes, a game that is 16 year old and still going, a game that got multiple game rewards, a game that had more players at it's peak than 99% of the MMO currently out.

    Good job showing how much you know about MMO.

    How's that ArcheAge MMO working out? I heard people are jumping that ship after just one month.

    QQ about cash shops and lack of community, sounds familiar....

    1 month VS 16 years....yah

     

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    EQ is lready remembered as very clumsy attempt at the game.

    Yes, a game that is 16 year old and still going, a game that got multiple game rewards, a game that had more players at it's peak that 99% of the MMO currently out.

    Good job showing how much you know about MMO.

    99%? lol

    let me see.

    WoW

    L1

    L2

    GW2

    SWTOR

    TERA

    Aion

    FFXIV

    ESO

    M&B

    yup, all MMOs that matter have more players than EQ in its hayday, and thats unlikely to change. Im sure theres bunch of eastern MMOs to add to thelist.

    OTOH EQ faded to obscurity when WoW launched. SoE even dragged Vanguard/POTBS/SWG around for years, and constantly losing money, to the point Sony tried to sell it for 10 years lol

Sign In or Register to comment.