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Trinity is still the superior combat mechanic, by a large margin.

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  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,065
    Originally posted by sketocafe
    The holy trinity isn't a combat mechanic. It's a player adaptation to the simple threat-table enemy behavior that devs just love to stick into their MMOs. When the trinity finally goes, I'll be happy about it because it'll mean that the lazy fucks have finally started putting meaningful resources into their enemy behavior.

    Actually holy trinity is not a player adaptation but rather is a developer creation simply because it is easier than more advanced AI and physics.

    It is like roll to hit vs aiming. Or single hit boxes vs many small hit boxes.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    Yeah, and while fun AI is all nice and dandy even Soren says that GOOD AI is suted for multiplayer and fun AI is duited for single player.

    TO put it all into chess:

    GOOD chess AI: plays chess as it was supposed to be played

    FUN chess AI: makes same moves every time and lets you win once you know what moves to counter EVERY time.

    Now, why fun AI is bad: once you know the moves it gets uber boring very quickly and MMOs require you to repeat exactly SAME chess match dozens of times (even with non gameplay related hurdles and mandatory gear grind)

    You should listen what he actually says. If you want any longeivety in MMO good AI is way to go, because among other stuff it wouldnt invalidate "old" encounters

    He also says that in order to have FUN AI you have to leave lot of stuff off the table (thats where trinity comes in) so even before you start designing encounters youre already severly limited in what you can do - because of trinity.

    the thing is that by swelling of other online genres (and sub genres) its quite clear vast majority of people prefer GOOD (human like) AI in their online games over DUMB (fun?) AI MMOs provide. So, that will be one of the aspects that will have to be rethinked if the genre is to be revitalized.

    And thats directly tied to trinity as you can only have dumb AI for trinity combat system, smart AI breaks the trinity (just like it happens in PvP)

    Er, MMORPGs aren't simulated PVP.  They're coop PVE games, which means they're functionally identical to singleplayer games (except you play as a team to beat the puzzle.)

    Each boss is a puzzle.  Bosses do get old after a while, but bosses would be less fun in the first place if each one was a convoluted mess of abilities.

    You're not "severely" limited in what you can do with the trinity.  We could exhaustively name all the types of boss fights which were possible under the trinity's ruleset.  The disticnt bosses would go on and on.  A lot of unique challenges exist, in spite of the mild limitation.

    Didi you even listened to video you linked?

    Of course trinity games are single player in a group beating a puzzle, thas how trinity works, every player has its own minigame to play. If everyone succeeds - good. No teamwork needed, no cooperation needed.

    Bosses get old after you beat them 2-3 times, since you are required to beat them 15+ times....yes vast majority would rather watch paint dry.

    You are severly limited. Try designing something that doesnt respect the trinity in trinity game. then come back and report. It gets interesting WHEN you use NON trinity related stuff and, well, you are severly limited in that, you know, framework of the trinity.

    I can tell that you have never actually done progression raiding. You make several comments which are make that obvious. I am not proclaiming the trinity as the greatest thing ever, but your comments have no basis. Also, there has yet to be a better system implemented that allows for team play. 

    Uh huh.

    GW2 requires teamwork. You want to get healed? WORK for it, from positioning, to timing. Thats teamwork.

    OTOH healer in trinity plays whack a mole and pushes few buttons.

    You have no clue what youre talking about. And its obvious you cannot distinguish what is trinity and what isnt trinity. But thats a common problem here, so no worries.

    Uhh maybe you don't understand what a team is? It is impossible to play a trinity game without a team. If you think healing is only playing whack-a-mole, then you never did progression raiding. I realize you are just making comments in an attempt to bait people, and I am sure most people realize that. BTW, GW2 didn't really require much teamwork until the last few patches. 

    Its impossible to play trinity game (false, you can solo in pretty much every trinity game) without a GROUP. Yes, there is a diference you are oblivious to. And its a crucial difference.

    Please, explain in great detail what anyone has to do to get healed in trinity game except healer presing 1 button.

    Pressing 1?  Hahaha That is what you do with the majority of the content in GW2. Zerg, spam, rez! I am not bashing GW2s combat as it has complexity. They just have not made adequate content for it until very recently. There is a whole lot more to playing healer than pressing a single button, but again you prove my point in that you have no real concept of the trinity because you have never played it on more than a casual level. Unlike you, I can accept the fact that both systems serve their purpose and appeal to different folks. 

    And you still havent answered a simple question:

    What do everyone/anyone else need to do in trinity game to get healed except healer pressing 1 button.

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    Did you even listened to video you linked?

    Of course trinity games are single player in a group beating a puzzle, thas how trinity works, every player has its own minigame to play. If everyone succeeds - good. No teamwork needed, no cooperation needed.

    Bosses get old after you beat them 2-3 times, since you are required to beat them 15+ times....yes vast majority would rather watch paint dry.

    You are severly limited. Try designing something that doesnt respect the trinity in trinity game. then come back and report. It gets interesting WHEN you use NON trinity related stuff and, well, you are severly limited in that, you know, framework of the trinity.

    Players are playing their own minigames, but the decisions they're making are heavily reliant on the performance of their teammates, which creates dynamic gameplay where the ideal rotation is never quite the same from attempt to attempt (and certainly from boss to boss things vary significantly.)

    Your definition of "severely limited" seems broken. Do you also feel fighting games are severely limited for their inability to design FPS-like fights or MMORPG-like fights? A game picks a direction and runs with it.  Trinity games have created literally hundreds of distinct raid/dungeon bosses.  And yes, there are also a handful of non-trinity fights in these games (like Flame Leviathan) in spite of how ridiculous your statement is.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    Did you even listened to video you linked?

    Of course trinity games are single player in a group beating a puzzle, thas how trinity works, every player has its own minigame to play. If everyone succeeds - good. No teamwork needed, no cooperation needed.

    Bosses get old after you beat them 2-3 times, since you are required to beat them 15+ times....yes vast majority would rather watch paint dry.

    You are severly limited. Try designing something that doesnt respect the trinity in trinity game. then come back and report. It gets interesting WHEN you use NON trinity related stuff and, well, you are severly limited in that, you know, framework of the trinity.

    Players are playing their own minigames, but the decisions they're making are heavily reliant on the performance of their teammates, which creates dynamic gameplay where the ideal rotation is never quite the same from attempt to attempt (and certainly from boss to boss things vary significantly.)

    Your definition of "severely limited" seems broken. Do you also feel fighting games are severely limited for their inability to design FPS-like fights or MMORPG-like fights? A game picks a direction and runs with it.  Trinity games have created literally hundreds of distinct raid/dungeon bosses.  And yes, there are also a handful of non-trinity fights in these games (like Flame Leviathan) in spite of how ridiculous your statement is.

    actually theres only 2 states and 2 decisions to make: go and stop. Any other decisions are made by encounter design and not reliant on trinity.

    Your attempt of using argument that if you completely ignore your core game combat mechanics you can design non trinity encouters as some kind of reassurance is broken. You cannot use non trinity design by using trinity combat system (we are talking about challenging content here, not content that can just ignore any kind of combat system, popularly called "zerging the stuff")

    And whats exactly "FPS-like fight" and "MMO like fight"? Neither of those are inherenty trinity or not trinity systems. They are DELIBERATELY made trinity or non trinity. And pnp systems (at least notable ones) DIDNT use trinity, thats MMOs invention as a way to SIMPLIFY combat, nothing more. There was NO trinity before MMOs, because trinity inherently doesnt make sense in the first place.

  • EndariokEndariok Member UncommonPosts: 12
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    actually theres only 2 states and 2 decisions to make: go and stop. Any other decisions are made by encounter design and not reliant on trinity.

    Your attempt of using argument that if you completely ignore your core game combat mechanics you can design non trinity encouters as some kind of reassurance is broken. You cannot use non trinity design by using trinity combat system (we are talking about challenging content here, not content that can just ignore any kind of combat system, popularly called "zerging the stuff")

    And whats exactly "FPS-like fight" and "MMO like fight"? Neither of those are inherenty trinity or not trinity systems. They are DELIBERATELY made trinity or non trinity. And pnp systems (at least notable ones) DIDNT use trinity, thats MMOs invention as a way to SIMPLIFY combat, nothing more. There was NO trinity before MMOs, because trinity inherently doesnt make sense in the first place.

    Is this why we can't have nice things?

    I was going to attempt to take this post apart and show its numerous fallacies, but I think I'd rather count carpet strands.

  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Member UncommonPosts: 884
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    Yeah, and while fun AI is all nice and dandy even Soren says that GOOD AI is suted for multiplayer and fun AI is duited for single player.

    TO put it all into chess:

    GOOD chess AI: plays chess as it was supposed to be played

    FUN chess AI: makes same moves every time and lets you win once you know what moves to counter EVERY time.

    Now, why fun AI is bad: once you know the moves it gets uber boring very quickly and MMOs require you to repeat exactly SAME chess match dozens of times (even with non gameplay related hurdles and mandatory gear grind)

    You should listen what he actually says. If you want any longeivety in MMO good AI is way to go, because among other stuff it wouldnt invalidate "old" encounters

    He also says that in order to have FUN AI you have to leave lot of stuff off the table (thats where trinity comes in) so even before you start designing encounters youre already severly limited in what you can do - because of trinity.

    the thing is that by swelling of other online genres (and sub genres) its quite clear vast majority of people prefer GOOD (human like) AI in their online games over DUMB (fun?) AI MMOs provide. So, that will be one of the aspects that will have to be rethinked if the genre is to be revitalized.

    And thats directly tied to trinity as you can only have dumb AI for trinity combat system, smart AI breaks the trinity (just like it happens in PvP)

    Er, MMORPGs aren't simulated PVP.  They're coop PVE games, which means they're functionally identical to singleplayer games (except you play as a team to beat the puzzle.)

    Each boss is a puzzle.  Bosses do get old after a while, but bosses would be less fun in the first place if each one was a convoluted mess of abilities.

    You're not "severely" limited in what you can do with the trinity.  We could exhaustively name all the types of boss fights which were possible under the trinity's ruleset.  The disticnt bosses would go on and on.  A lot of unique challenges exist, in spite of the mild limitation.

    Didi you even listened to video you linked?

    Of course trinity games are single player in a group beating a puzzle, thas how trinity works, every player has its own minigame to play. If everyone succeeds - good. No teamwork needed, no cooperation needed.

    Bosses get old after you beat them 2-3 times, since you are required to beat them 15+ times....yes vast majority would rather watch paint dry.

    You are severly limited. Try designing something that doesnt respect the trinity in trinity game. then come back and report. It gets interesting WHEN you use NON trinity related stuff and, well, you are severly limited in that, you know, framework of the trinity.

    I can tell that you have never actually done progression raiding. You make several comments which are make that obvious. I am not proclaiming the trinity as the greatest thing ever, but your comments have no basis. Also, there has yet to be a better system implemented that allows for team play. 

    Uh huh.

    GW2 requires teamwork. You want to get healed? WORK for it, from positioning, to timing. Thats teamwork.

    OTOH healer in trinity plays whack a mole and pushes few buttons.

    You have no clue what youre talking about. And its obvious you cannot distinguish what is trinity and what isnt trinity. But thats a common problem here, so no worries.

    Uhh maybe you don't understand what a team is? It is impossible to play a trinity game without a team. If you think healing is only playing whack-a-mole, then you never did progression raiding. I realize you are just making comments in an attempt to bait people, and I am sure most people realize that. BTW, GW2 didn't really require much teamwork until the last few patches. 

    Its impossible to play trinity game (false, you can solo in pretty much every trinity game) without a GROUP. Yes, there is a diference you are oblivious to. And its a crucial difference.

    Please, explain in great detail what anyone has to do to get healed in trinity game except healer presing 1 button.

    Pressing 1?  Hahaha That is what you do with the majority of the content in GW2. Zerg, spam, rez! I am not bashing GW2s combat as it has complexity. They just have not made adequate content for it until very recently. There is a whole lot more to playing healer than pressing a single button, but again you prove my point in that you have no real concept of the trinity because you have never played it on more than a casual level. Unlike you, I can accept the fact that both systems serve their purpose and appeal to different folks. 

    And you still havent answered a simple question:

    What do everyone/anyone else need to do in trinity game to get healed except healer pressing 1 button.

    Manage resources, determine who to heal, which heal to use and when, watch for chances to buff or perform a cleanse, react to the inevitable mistakes by the team members or DPS, move and react to the bosses actions....... Yep, that entails a whole lot more than just pushing 1...... Again, it is obvious that you never did any real raiding or heroic dungeons or you wouldn't have that opinion. That is why so many people disagree with you..... but then you knew they would, and you most likely have other motives for baiting......

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Block is your friend.  Cleanse your threads of baiting and logical fallacies.


  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 5,750

    A time-tested mechanic is more polished than one that has only been experimented with in a few games - only one of which was AAA?

     

     

    Say it isn't so!

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    actually theres only 2 states and 2 decisions to make: go and stop. Any other decisions are made by encounter design and not reliant on trinity.

    Your attempt of using argument that if you completely ignore your core game combat mechanics you can design non trinity encouters as some kind of reassurance is broken. You cannot use non trinity design by using trinity combat system (we are talking about challenging content here, not content that can just ignore any kind of combat system, popularly called "zerging the stuff")

    And whats exactly "FPS-like fight" and "MMO like fight"? Neither of those are inherenty trinity or not trinity systems. They are DELIBERATELY made trinity or non trinity. And pnp systems (at least notable ones) DIDNT use trinity, thats MMOs invention as a way to SIMPLIFY combat, nothing more. There was NO trinity before MMOs, because trinity inherently doesnt make sense in the first place.

    Here is the logic you have presented:

    • Trinity is limited because it can't do non-trinity fights.
    • The non-trinity fights that do exist in trinity games don't count, because they're not the trinity.
    Maybe you'd like to straighten out your story and pick a logical stance to argue?
     
    The lack of trinity in PnP RPGs made for very bland combat. Roles were weakly defined and most classes were quite shallow (only spellcasters got anything resembling tactical decision-making.) AD&D 2nd simply had shallow combat (and by extension so did all the games based on its combat.)  Wasn't til 4E that combat became more of a tactical thing; in part because of the introduction of many trinity elements (few outright taunts existed, but significant penalties were incurred if the monster didn't attack the leader that marked it.)
     
    Not all gamers wanted deep, involved, tactical combat in their PnP RPGs, but that's simply their preference, not a failure of the system.
     
    So for myself, as someone who enjoys combat with meaningful decisions, the addition of trinity to PnP RPGs made combat far more enjoyable.  Suddenly it was a puzzle; a game to figure out and master.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • MagnetiaMagnetia Member UncommonPosts: 1,012
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    Uh huh.

    GW2 requires teamwork. You want to get healed? WORK for it, from positioning, to timing. Thats teamwork.

    OTOH healer in trinity plays whack a mole and pushes few buttons.

    You have no clue what youre talking about. And its obvious you cannot distinguish what is trinity and what isnt trinity. But thats a common problem here, so no worries.

    Uhh maybe you don't understand what a team is? It is impossible to play a trinity game without a team. If you think healing is only playing whack-a-mole, then you never did progression raiding. I realize you are just making comments in an attempt to bait people, and I am sure most people realize that. BTW, GW2 didn't really require much teamwork until the last few patches. 

    You keep holding progression raiding into your responses. I healed Naxx, Ulduar and Icecrown. It's whack-a-mole and I know it.

    Sure I have to move once in a while and on RARE occasion (Emerald dragon dream boss) I have to heal something other than players but for 90%. In your MIND it is complex but in reality the healer has an easier job than DPS and tank. It's just that few WANT to the healer in may not be particularly good at it.

    Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?

  • MagnetiaMagnetia Member UncommonPosts: 1,012
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    Yeah, and while fun AI is all nice and dandy even Soren says that GOOD AI is suted for multiplayer and fun AI is duited for single player.

    TO put it all into chess:

    GOOD chess AI: plays chess as it was supposed to be played

    FUN chess AI: makes same moves every time and lets you win once you know what moves to counter EVERY time.

    Now, why fun AI is bad: once you know the moves it gets uber boring very quickly and MMOs require you to repeat exactly SAME chess match dozens of times (even with non gameplay related hurdles and mandatory gear grind)

    You should listen what he actually says. If you want any longeivety in MMO good AI is way to go, because among other stuff it wouldnt invalidate "old" encounters

    He also says that in order to have FUN AI you have to leave lot of stuff off the table (thats where trinity comes in) so even before you start designing encounters youre already severly limited in what you can do - because of trinity.

    the thing is that by swelling of other online genres (and sub genres) its quite clear vast majority of people prefer GOOD (human like) AI in their online games over DUMB (fun?) AI MMOs provide. So, that will be one of the aspects that will have to be rethinked if the genre is to be revitalized.

    And thats directly tied to trinity as you can only have dumb AI for trinity combat system, smart AI breaks the trinity (just like it happens in PvP)

    Er, MMORPGs aren't simulated PVP.  They're coop PVE games, which means they're functionally identical to singleplayer games (except you play as a team to beat the puzzle.)

    Each boss is a puzzle.  Bosses do get old after a while, but bosses would be less fun in the first place if each one was a convoluted mess of abilities.

    You're not "severely" limited in what you can do with the trinity.  We could exhaustively name all the types of boss fights which were possible under the trinity's ruleset.  The disticnt bosses would go on and on.  A lot of unique challenges exist, in spite of the mild limitation.

    Didi you even listened to video you linked?

    Of course trinity games are single player in a group beating a puzzle, thas how trinity works, every player has its own minigame to play. If everyone succeeds - good. No teamwork needed, no cooperation needed.

    Bosses get old after you beat them 2-3 times, since you are required to beat them 15+ times....yes vast majority would rather watch paint dry.

    You are severly limited. Try designing something that doesnt respect the trinity in trinity game. then come back and report. It gets interesting WHEN you use NON trinity related stuff and, well, you are severly limited in that, you know, framework of the trinity.

    I can tell that you have never actually done progression raiding. You make several comments which are make that obvious. I am not proclaiming the trinity as the greatest thing ever, but your comments have no basis. Also, there has yet to be a better system implemented that allows for team play. 

    Uh huh.

    GW2 requires teamwork. You want to get healed? WORK for it, from positioning, to timing. Thats teamwork.

    OTOH healer in trinity plays whack a mole and pushes few buttons.

    You have no clue what youre talking about. And its obvious you cannot distinguish what is trinity and what isnt trinity. But thats a common problem here, so no worries.

    Uhh maybe you don't understand what a team is? It is impossible to play a trinity game without a team. If you think healing is only playing whack-a-mole, then you never did progression raiding. I realize you are just making comments in an attempt to bait people, and I am sure most people realize that. BTW, GW2 didn't really require much teamwork until the last few patches. 

    Its impossible to play trinity game (false, you can solo in pretty much every trinity game) without a GROUP. Yes, there is a diference you are oblivious to. And its a crucial difference.

    Please, explain in great detail what anyone has to do to get healed in trinity game except healer presing 1 button.

    Pressing 1?  Hahaha That is what you do with the majority of the content in GW2. Zerg, spam, rez! I am not bashing GW2s combat as it has complexity. They just have not made adequate content for it until very recently. There is a whole lot more to playing healer than pressing a single button, but again you prove my point in that you have no real concept of the trinity because you have never played it on more than a casual level. Unlike you, I can accept the fact that both systems serve their purpose and appeal to different folks. 

    And you still havent answered a simple question:

    What do everyone/anyone else need to do in trinity game to get healed except healer pressing 1 button.

    Manage resources, determine who to heal, which heal to use and when, watch for chances to buff or perform a cleanse, react to the inevitable mistakes by the team members or DPS, move and react to the bosses actions....... Yep, that entails a whole lot more than just pushing 1...... Again, it is obvious that you never did any real raiding or heroic dungeons or you wouldn't have that opinion. That is why so many people disagree with you..... but then you knew they would, and you most likely have other motives for baiting......

    I used maybe 3-4 skills to heal someone. Every other (useful) skill was just in case other people screwed up.

    Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Malabooga
     

    but im glad that you see that its actually NON trinity elements make things interesting, and im glad you can concluse that trnity "works" BECAUSE its simple.

    The holy trinity came to life exactly because it is the simpler to code for MMO environment.

    Threat-based combat wasn't created because it was simpler. It was created because it was one of the alternatives to collision (which players were abusing) when the DikuMUD gameplay was brought to 3D space. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,208
    Reading this thread makes me miss ragnarok online days where you did have a trinity but if you had enough heal pots, you were still as good. Games just lack class versatility really. Good example (to me anyway) of class versatility is FFXI. That game you can build your parties however you want really. Such as Tank, Healer, DPSx3, Support | DPS x3, Healer, Support x2 | However you want really. But Support could dps, dps could tank, healers could....heal lol but you could also have various classes fill in as a healer. Even tanks could dps. So my point is games games should have a trinity system, but the classes within that system should be flexible. I think that's the main problem with people who went from XI to XIV. XIV class system is so linear, where as XI had a lot of flexibility, which was also largely part of the subjob (subclass) system. Which I also feel more games need to have. So you can further craft the character you want by having the option to have a main class, but also pull certain things from at least one other class to make you different and mix up the meta a bit.
  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    And you still havent answered a simple question:

    What do everyone/anyone else need to do in trinity game to get healed except healer pressing 1 button.

    Manage resources, determine who to heal, which heal to use and when, watch for chances to buff or perform a cleanse, react to the inevitable mistakes by the team members or DPS, move and react to the bosses actions....... Yep, that entails a whole lot more than just pushing 1...... Again, it is obvious that you never did any real raiding or heroic dungeons or you wouldn't have that opinion. That is why so many people disagree with you..... but then you knew they would, and you most likely have other motives for baiting......

    Whay dont you answer a question?

    Its a simple question with a simple answer.

    Not to mention everything else you mentioned has nothing to do with trinity.

    so please, would you be so kind to answer simple question instead beating around the bush and desperately try to avoid a question with things that have no connection to the trinity.

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    OP-

    Bashing on console players?

    F*ck off you elitist prick.

    Get over yourself buddy- and every other elitist PC gamer who thinks their shit doesn't stink needs to wake up, grow up, and stop being a massive huge pile of steaming feces.

    I'd take a racial slur spouting, music in the background blaring "console kid" on my team over jerks like you any fucking day of the week pal.

    People like you is why I  turn of mics on console and why I rarely play online on console .If you said such things in Everquest, you would be guild kicked by me

    It is also why I think that trinity and cooperation matter in MMO if you want a good community.

    For example, if you said what you just said in Everquest, your reputation would be tarnished quite a bit, and you would be reprimanded for your behavior by your guild officer, because unlike MMO or consoles where you can just say whatever you like, in a game where classes are well defined, like trinity, you need to depend on each other and your reputation matters.

    What you say, is extremely common on consoles, you say it yourself, you have no issues with racial slurs and you have no issues cursing me out for my opinion, that wouldn't work out very well for you in MMO where reputation was a factor, probably why you like consoles and that type of gameplay, since it allows you to say and act any way you like without repercussions.

     

    People mentioned WoW. At least WoW has a little bit of a community left, at least trinity based games have some sort of community where there is some  mutual respect between players, where you can't say whatever you want. Where depending on each other is embraced instead of rejected, and where the Multiplayer aspect of MMO, is actually central instead of an afterthought.

  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Member UncommonPosts: 884
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    And you still havent answered a simple question:

    What do everyone/anyone else need to do in trinity game to get healed except healer pressing 1 button.

    Manage resources, determine who to heal, which heal to use and when, watch for chances to buff or perform a cleanse, react to the inevitable mistakes by the team members or DPS, move and react to the bosses actions....... Yep, that entails a whole lot more than just pushing 1...... Again, it is obvious that you never did any real raiding or heroic dungeons or you wouldn't have that opinion. That is why so many people disagree with you..... but then you knew they would, and you most likely have other motives for baiting......

    Whay dont you answer a question?

    Its a simple question with a simple answer.

    Not to mention everything else you mentioned has nothing to do with trinity.

    so please, would you be so kind to answer simple question instead beating around the bush and desperately try to avoid a question with things that have no connection to the trinity.

    I was very kind and already answered your question. Everything I mentioned does deal with the trinity. I guess maybe you don't understand how the trinity works. Maybe go do a little research.

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    And you still havent answered a simple question:

    What do everyone/anyone else need to do in trinity game to get healed except healer pressing 1 button.

    Manage resources, determine who to heal, which heal to use and when, watch for chances to buff or perform a cleanse, react to the inevitable mistakes by the team members or DPS, move and react to the bosses actions....... Yep, that entails a whole lot more than just pushing 1...... Again, it is obvious that you never did any real raiding or heroic dungeons or you wouldn't have that opinion. That is why so many people disagree with you..... but then you knew they would, and you most likely have other motives for baiting......

    Whay dont you answer a question?

    Its a simple question with a simple answer.

    Not to mention everything else you mentioned has nothing to do with trinity.

    so please, would you be so kind to answer simple question instead beating around the bush and desperately try to avoid a question with things that have no connection to the trinity.

         I'm not sure what games you've been playing to based YOUR entire position on  (DO TELL US, no beating around the bush as you call it).. but Trinitiy (aka role combat) isn't all about pressing heals..  Trinity is just another name people call ROLE combat..  This will encompass everything from tank, to heals, to pulling, to buffing, to debuffing, to CC, to general support and obviously DPS.. I have been in groups where my druid was group healer, or I played CC, support and dps.. There were times we tank and spanked the mob, and times NO heals were needed because we kited the mob to death.. Do you know what kiting is?  (btw there are multiple forms of kiting).. 

         I've played all the forms of gaming, none are superior or inferior, because that is completely subjective depending on what you want to do..  If I want to esport PvP, that will take a completely different set up of RULES and mechanics then PvE role playing.. Learning languages is great for role playing, but the PvP could give a rats ass about learning "elvish".. 

        YOU want answers..  First why don't you give us YOUR first hand experience of role combat, and why you base the ENTIRE population on it..  TY

  • TaishiFoxTaishiFox Member RarePosts: 972
    Have to say, as much as I like playing a specific role, Trinity play does get a bit boring.  I really prefer to be able to do what I want rather than feel restricted to my role.

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  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    Please, explain in great detail what anyone has to do to get healed in trinity game except healer presing 1 button.

    Not sure what you're asking.

    But the ways trinity games handle heals  I have played:

     

    -Burst heals (short cast time, low heal)

    -Larger heals (slower, larger heal)

    -Group heals (heals the group, usually less powerful for single targets)

    -HoT (Heals over time, usually cast before engage)

    -Proc heals (go off during mob hits)

    -Balance average heals (the group's health is totaled and split evenly over everoyne, usually extremely fast cast)

    -Divine intervention type heals (go off when a tank drops below 0%)

    -Target heals (damage dealt to a mob heals the group in return)

    -Damage with heal recourse (Nukes damage + heal)

    etc

     

    To say healing is just hitting one button, is just misguided.

     

    *For example, if you're not quick enough to find your tank and can't target the tank, casting a nuke with a heal recourse on the mob might save the tank's life.

    *For example, if 2 characters in your group are at 30% and dropping, do you cast a balance heal that averages the group's health, or do you try a group heal that is slower, split decision, often only one is the right one.

    *For example, if your tank is dropping to 20% all the time, are you willing to go off of your fast heal chain and do a divine intervention that might bring him to almost full again, or will your cast time be too slow and will he die, split decision.

    *If an AE goes off and the whole groups drops to 40%, do you focus on the tank or not. Can the tank handle missing a fast heal, do you have time to heal the group right now or not. Split decision.

     

    It is those split decisions that turn average healers into great healers.

     

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    Please, explain in great detail what anyone has to do to get healed in trinity game except healer presing 1 button.

    Not sure what you're asking.

    But the ways trinity games handle heals  I have played:

     

    -Burst heals (short cast time, low heal)

    -Larger heals (slower, larger heal)

    -Group heals (heals the group, usually less powerful for single targets)

    -HoT (Heals over time, usually cast before engage)

    -Proc heals (go off during mob hits)

    -Balance average heals (the group's health is totaled and split evenly over everoyne, usually extremely fast cast)

    -Divine intervention type heals (go off when a tank drops below 0%)

    -Target heals (damage dealt to a mob heals the group in return)

    -Damage with heal recourse (Nukes damage + heal)

    etc

     

    To say healing is just hitting one button, is just misguided.

     

    *For example, if you're not quick enough to find your tank and can't target the tank, casting a nuke with a heal recourse on the mob might save the tank's life.

    *For example, if 2 characters in your group are at 30% and dropping, do you cast a balance heal that averages the group's health, or do you try a group heal that is slower, split decision, often only one is the right one.

    *For example, if your tank is dropping to 20% all the time, are you willing to go off of your fast heal chain and do a divine intervention that might bring him to almost full again, or will your cast time be too slow and will he die, split decision.

     

    It is those split decisions that turn average healers into great healers.

     

    Jeebus.

    What does healer has to do to execute burst heal, and what anyone else (tank) has to do to receive burst heal.

    Insert whatever heal you want instead burst heal.

    We are talking trinity, COMBAT SYSTEM, not encounter design.

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    Please, explain in great detail what anyone has to do to get healed in trinity game except healer presing 1 button.

    Not sure what you're asking.

    But the ways trinity games handle heals  I have played:

     

    -Burst heals (short cast time, low heal)

    -Larger heals (slower, larger heal)

    -Group heals (heals the group, usually less powerful for single targets)

    -HoT (Heals over time, usually cast before engage)

    -Proc heals (go off during mob hits)

    -Balance average heals (the group's health is totaled and split evenly over everoyne, usually extremely fast cast)

    -Divine intervention type heals (go off when a tank drops below 0%)

    -Target heals (damage dealt to a mob heals the group in return)

    -Damage with heal recourse (Nukes damage + heal)

    etc

     

    To say healing is just hitting one button, is just misguided.

     

    *For example, if you're not quick enough to find your tank and can't target the tank, casting a nuke with a heal recourse on the mob might save the tank's life.

    *For example, if 2 characters in your group are at 30% and dropping, do you cast a balance heal that averages the group's health, or do you try a group heal that is slower, split decision, often only one is the right one.

    *For example, if your tank is dropping to 20% all the time, are you willing to go off of your fast heal chain and do a divine intervention that might bring him to almost full again, or will your cast time be too slow and will he die, split decision.

     

    It is those split decisions that turn average healers into great healers.

     

    Jeebus.

    What does healer has to do to execute burst heal, and what anyone else (tank) has to do to receive burst heal.

    Insert whatever heal you want instead burst heal.

    Have no idea what you're saying.

    If you're saying you can just chain burst heals, that's not true. Burst heals tend to be lower health heals, often you require AE group heals, often you need to use an averaging heal, often burst heals are too costly mana wise, etc.

    If you've never played a healer, it might just look to you they only have on spell, in Everquest clerics have about 15 different heals (if you add in AA heals)

    They all have their function and place.

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    Please, explain in great detail what anyone has to do to get healed in trinity game except healer presing 1 button.

    Not sure what you're asking.

    But the ways trinity games handle heals  I have played:

     

    -Burst heals (short cast time, low heal)

    -Larger heals (slower, larger heal)

    -Group heals (heals the group, usually less powerful for single targets)

    -HoT (Heals over time, usually cast before engage)

    -Proc heals (go off during mob hits)

    -Balance average heals (the group's health is totaled and split evenly over everoyne, usually extremely fast cast)

    -Divine intervention type heals (go off when a tank drops below 0%)

    -Target heals (damage dealt to a mob heals the group in return)

    -Damage with heal recourse (Nukes damage + heal)

    etc

     

    To say healing is just hitting one button, is just misguided.

     

    *For example, if you're not quick enough to find your tank and can't target the tank, casting a nuke with a heal recourse on the mob might save the tank's life.

    *For example, if 2 characters in your group are at 30% and dropping, do you cast a balance heal that averages the group's health, or do you try a group heal that is slower, split decision, often only one is the right one.

    *For example, if your tank is dropping to 20% all the time, are you willing to go off of your fast heal chain and do a divine intervention that might bring him to almost full again, or will your cast time be too slow and will he die, split decision.

     

    It is those split decisions that turn average healers into great healers.

     

    Jeebus.

    What does healer has to do to execute burst heal, and what anyone else (tank) has to do to receive burst heal.

    Insert whatever heal you want instead burst heal.

    Have no idea what you're saying.

    Yup, but that soesnt stop you from proclaiming that combat system "superior" while at the same time you admit you have no idea what is it about.

    It ironic really.

    Spell is IRRELEVANT, it can be 845616 different heal skills.

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    I forgot another type heal, HP boost heals, they're called Wild Growth in EQ, but I believe in WoW a class has them too. Increase in HP and healing of that HP. Very handy during certain encounters.
  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    Please, explain in great detail what anyone has to do to get healed in trinity game except healer presing 1 button.

    Not sure what you're asking.

    But the ways trinity games handle heals  I have played:

     

    -Burst heals (short cast time, low heal)

    -Larger heals (slower, larger heal)

    -Group heals (heals the group, usually less powerful for single targets)

    -HoT (Heals over time, usually cast before engage)

    -Proc heals (go off during mob hits)

    -Balance average heals (the group's health is totaled and split evenly over everoyne, usually extremely fast cast)

    -Divine intervention type heals (go off when a tank drops below 0%)

    -Target heals (damage dealt to a mob heals the group in return)

    -Damage with heal recourse (Nukes damage + heal)

    etc

     

    To say healing is just hitting one button, is just misguided.

     

    *For example, if you're not quick enough to find your tank and can't target the tank, casting a nuke with a heal recourse on the mob might save the tank's life.

    *For example, if 2 characters in your group are at 30% and dropping, do you cast a balance heal that averages the group's health, or do you try a group heal that is slower, split decision, often only one is the right one.

    *For example, if your tank is dropping to 20% all the time, are you willing to go off of your fast heal chain and do a divine intervention that might bring him to almost full again, or will your cast time be too slow and will he die, split decision.

     

    It is those split decisions that turn average healers into great healers.

     

    Jeebus.

    What does healer has to do to execute burst heal, and what anyone else (tank) has to do to receive burst heal.

    Insert whatever heal you want instead burst heal.

    Have no idea what you're saying.

    Spell is IRRELEVANT, it can be 845616 different heal skills.

    You said healers press just one button in trinity games. Don't think you played many trinity games.

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by Malabooga

    Please, explain in great detail what anyone has to do to get healed in trinity game except healer presing 1 button.

    Not sure what you're asking.

    But the ways trinity games handle heals  I have played:

     

    -Burst heals (short cast time, low heal)

    -Larger heals (slower, larger heal)

    -Group heals (heals the group, usually less powerful for single targets)

    -HoT (Heals over time, usually cast before engage)

    -Proc heals (go off during mob hits)

    -Balance average heals (the group's health is totaled and split evenly over everoyne, usually extremely fast cast)

    -Divine intervention type heals (go off when a tank drops below 0%)

    -Target heals (damage dealt to a mob heals the group in return)

    -Damage with heal recourse (Nukes damage + heal)

    etc

     

    To say healing is just hitting one button, is just misguided.

     

    *For example, if you're not quick enough to find your tank and can't target the tank, casting a nuke with a heal recourse on the mob might save the tank's life.

    *For example, if 2 characters in your group are at 30% and dropping, do you cast a balance heal that averages the group's health, or do you try a group heal that is slower, split decision, often only one is the right one.

    *For example, if your tank is dropping to 20% all the time, are you willing to go off of your fast heal chain and do a divine intervention that might bring him to almost full again, or will your cast time be too slow and will he die, split decision.

     

    It is those split decisions that turn average healers into great healers.

     

    Jeebus.

    What does healer has to do to execute burst heal, and what anyone else (tank) has to do to receive burst heal.

    Insert whatever heal you want instead burst heal.

    Have no idea what you're saying.

    Spell is IRRELEVANT, it can be 845616 different heal skills.

    You said healers press just one button in trinity games. Don't think you played many trinity games.

    *sigh* *5 years old mode*

    You have a healer. Lets call him "A"

    You have someone who needs healing. Lets call him "B"

    You pick a heal skill from list of 16545641564 heal skills available. Number of skills available is IRRELEVANT to trinity.

    What do A has to do and what B has to do to get B healed.

    Man, i miss Axe, he at least knows what combat system is ;P

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