If the game is good I would pay a higher monthly fee.
I would expect absolutely no other in game purchase for sale. No mounts, no in-game apparel, no pets.
I would expect same day customer service.
I would expect a lot content in -game ( Pantheon has been promoting "content is king" all along ).
I would expect a game that runs smoothly and has relatively few bugs.
For me, it would be fine if there were additional charges for extra services like character transfer.
These expectations sound basic - however the last few years of new releases have not met all these expectations and I am sick of all the free-to-play/microtransaction BS.
If the game meets these expectations I would be thrilled to pay more per month.
I believe in order to see a change we need to support a little change due to the fact that what is out now obviously isn't working or everyone would be gaming instead of posting in these forums. From what I see and please correct me if I'm wrong; this is the only game giving us that opportunity currently.
Of the games currently in development, this is the only game in development offering what so many players are asking for.
I just hope it can deliver.
I agree... and I'm not so blind that I don't think there aren't risks that I could lose the money we have invested, though sometimes you have to take chances to make any progress. There will obviously be tons of failures and let downs, though we already have a ton of those now and we invested nothing.
If the game is good I would pay a higher monthly fee.
I would expect absolutely no other in game purchase for sale. No mounts, no in-game apparel, no pets.
I would expect same day customer service.
I would expect a lot content in -game ( Pantheon has been promoting "content is king" all along ).
I would expect a game that runs smoothly and has relatively few bugs.
For me, it would be fine if there were additional charges for extra services like character transfer.
These expectations sound basic - however the last few years of new releases have not met all these expectations and I am sick of all the free-to-play/microtransaction BS.
If the game meets these expectations I would be thrilled to pay more per month.
Agreed. I am willing to pay more per month, but expect to get my money's worth.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
If the game is good I would pay a higher monthly fee.
I would expect absolutely no other in game purchase for sale. No mounts, no in-game apparel, no pets.
For me, it would be fine if there were additional charges for extra services like character transfer.
Unfortunately these contradict.
"absolutely" has a specific definition. character transfer occurs in-game therefore can't be in the shop.
Rift, a F2P offers it for 100% free. Why would a P2P charge for it.
Character transfers are out-of-game. Absolutely nothing about the character or his stats have changed.
I would agree that nothing about the character changes in game with a character transfer other than being on a physical server. So I personally would also consider this an out of game purchase. Though I see where the other party is coming form as well. However I would like to see some type of time limit placed on character transfers.
I am willing to pay up to 40-50$ / month if Pantheon is like they say it will be.
Make it a real successor to EQ 1 and i don't really care how much it is. Paying for a hobby is not all that special. All my other hobbys cost 200 or more per month. Gaming gives the most hours of all my hobbys tho. So why should i NOT be willing to spend that cash?
The reason people over there are willing to spend more:
Pantheon attracts old EQ fans. "We" are 16 years older now, most of us are employed now and don't are about a few bucks anymore.
Paying for quality products is something people WANT to do.
Avoiding a community of freeloaders is very appealing to EQ1 vets.
That being said. They have to deliver first. If they don't deliver as promised a 10 buck fee will be too much already. We have enough medicore games asking for money. If they DO deliver however,...
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
I believe the bottom line that should be thought about is what is available now and what they want from the future of MMO-RPGs. Even if they hate Brad with a passion and they have any interest at all for a game of this nature, they should be trying to support it to help it succeed.
Without running around yelling the "sky is falling", the mmo-rpgs of today do not hold attention or satisfy a lot of people from the comments and the rise and fall of all the triple A titles I see today. It's like I see a huge title game get released one day and a few months to a year later it's getting shutdown or it's so empty that it might as well be shutdown.
I believe in order to see a change we need to support a little change due to the fact that what is out now obviously isn't working or everyone would be gaming instead of posting in these forums. From what I see and please correct me if I'm wrong; this is the only game giving us that opportunity currently.
If a mmo is truly of "higher quality", which of course is pretty subjective, then it's not entirely unreasonable to expect to pay a price that is on par with the service. However, with that higher price will also come with the assumption that the game is significantly superior to other services offered. Additionally, what is the cut off of the price in terms of superior quality? Five dollars more? 10? 25? How many people are going to truly be willing to spend somewhere in the neighborhood of $25 per month for access to a game?
$15 per month has been pretty standard for at least 16 years in the industry. It's not entirely unreasonable to expect some type of inflation to happen in terms of cost of services. Of course, that's also been the beauty of mmo sub fees, they aren't entirely unreasonable and can be afforded by a significant amount of people.
Plus, there's another question to ask. Will a higher sub fee and lower amount of players really create a better community? Are those who are willing to spend higher dollar amounts for services just inherently better people?
I've asked multiple times on this forum just how much people are willing to pay for an entertainment product. What happens if the company feels like they have made a Lamborghini-quality game and they want to charge a comparable price of $150 / month (US)? In every thread where I've brought this up, there have been any number of people claiming they would pay twice that. I can't help but wonder where they are now.
One movie per month (with popcorn and drink) runs about $20-25 per month. Attending a sporting event once a month in the nose-bleed seats) costs anywhere from $30 and up. Want to sit court side, rink side or on the 50-yard line? Those can run several hundreds per event. Want to take a trip to Vegas or a closer casino for some gambling? Most people plan on a budget of $1000 as a minimum.
The ultimate question is how much are people willing to spend on gaming? So far, no company has seriously asked that question. With a number of visually superior games under development, which company will be the first to say 'The base price of our game is $25 (or $35 or $50) a month. It's worth it.'?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I am willing to pay up to 40-50$ / month if Pantheon is like they say it will be.
Make it a real successor to EQ 1 and i don't really care how much it is. Paying for a hobby is not all that special. All my other hobbys cost 200 or more per month. Gaming gives the most hours of all my hobbys tho. So why should i NOT be willing to spend that cash?
The reason people over there are willing to spend more:
Pantheon attracts old EQ fans. "We" are 16 years older now, most of us are employed now and don't are about a few bucks anymore.
Paying for quality products is something people WANT to do.
Avoiding a community of freeloaders is very appealing to EQ1 vets.
That being said. They have to deliver first. If they don't deliver as promised a 10 buck fee will be too much already. We have enough medicore games asking for money. If they DO deliver however,...
I agree.
I think Chris Rowen should copy and paste, post like this all over his office.
$25/month in return from 200 - 400k players is all they need to be billionaires. Why make a game for everyone, when you can make a game for oldschoolers who have jobs and want to spend on their hobby & entertainment..?
People will pay what they perceive is a fair price for goods or services, thats basic marketing.
Now on to Advanced marketing Perceived Prestige, if you can convince people that there is prestige attached to a "Premium" Service you can get them to pay more money to be associated with this prestige, people like associations to validate them selves, so appeal to their sense of wanting to be special and you will suddenly have a second revenue stream, which will removing the players from the first stream, places them in a second one which is worth more value per head than the first.
I think marketing to vanity or perceived prestige is dangerous in the video game industry. Even if the average backer on Pantheon's site is 30-40+, video games are something enjoyed by people of all ages and incomes. I still believe Pantheon stands to make more from mass popularity than they do from having a small core of players willing to pay more money.
In recent years, there have been several hardcore titles ranging from rpg, to shooter, to survival games that have had great success. There is still an audience for that type of gameplay, but again, if the game isn't accessible, I don't believe it will break through that popularity threshold. Its the same principle used in marketing where they advertise a product at lower cost for a limited time to get as many people hooked as possible. Raising the sub would be like doing the opposite, and I think its very risky.
I feel like I always have to add this disclaimer though: the price should be whatever it needs to be in order to keep the ship sailing. No more, no less.
Start with a fee of $15 for around 6 month or so and evaluate the situation after that when they see how popular the game is. After that maybe (if it's necessary) increase the fee slightly, but not by $5-$10, but more with $2 to $3 or so. Otherwise I suspect people will leave the game or feel it's pointless to even try out the game, if they feel it costs to much. This game will focus on grouping, but it will be no grouping if you have none to group up with. This will cause that even those who likes the game will end their subscription so the servers will feel desert empty. As it's a group based game it's important the game attracts lots of people to start playing the game. So I hope Brad will make a good decision here.
Edit:
Also high subscription fee will probably also affect the scores on reviews negative.
My days of paying a sub are done...To me it is a complete waste of money...At the end of the year you have paid $180 just to play a video game...That's ridiculous....And once you stop paying? You have nothing.
My days of paying a sub are done...To me it is a complete waste of money...At the end of the year you have paid $180 just to play a video game...That's ridiculous....And once you stop paying? You have nothing.
So all non-physical media is "nothing". Good logic there cutie.
The standard sub for a MMO was $15/month back in 2000. It's 2020 now. I'm utterly surprised the monthly rate hasn't gone up due to inflation like pretty much everything else in this world.
The game has two choices. It can go volume or quality like all businesses. By going volume it will have to appease the masses but it will be able to reduce the use cost (ie Walmart). WoW has millions of subs so they can keep subs low or other games go the F2P route hoping to gather whales.
Pantheon is a niche game. It won't be able to garner millions of subs. They will have to charge more to stay open and provide regular updates. Either that or they charge low and updates become very rare.
If Pantheon wants to stick to their guns and remain a niche game, they will have to raise their sub to $20, maybe $25/month. If you are a gamer who really wants a true successor of EQ then you can prove it with your wallets. If they sell out and become another WoW then you can bail like any other game.
My days of paying a sub are done...To me it is a complete waste of money...At the end of the year you have paid $180 just to play a video game...That's ridiculous....And once you stop paying? You have nothing.
How much do you spend playing free to play games? Does it add up to less, equal or more?
Also, that's absolutely nothing for money = entertainment time. If you were to buy Ballgame tickets, tickets to the theater/show whatever, or even just go to the movies all year you would be paying a lot more.
Especially when you add up how many hours you were actually spending compared to the price. What you get is the experience.
And if you played 2 hours per week you'd be paying 3.75 per week for 2 hours of entertainment. Most likely people would play a little more than that.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
My days of paying a sub are done...To me it is a complete waste of money...At the end of the year you have paid $180 just to play a video game...That's ridiculous....And once you stop paying? You have nothing.
How much do you spend playing free to play games? Does it add up to less, equal or more?
Also, that's absolutely nothing for money = entertainment time. If you were to buy Ballgame tickets, tickets to the theater/show whatever, or even just go to the movies all year you would be paying a lot more.
Especially when you add up how many hours you were actually spending compared to the price. What you get is the experience.
And if you played 2 hours per week you'd be paying 3.75 per week for 2 hours of entertainment. Most likely people would play a little more than that.
What back around 2004 it was $14.99 a month with first month free.... I'ts 2020 !
I would easily pay $20 a month as long as good quality updates.
Mmorpgs free-to- play is a bunch of BULL SHIT !...AND SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN.
I hope the F2P people stay away from this game, it's pollution.
My days of paying a sub are done...To me it is a complete waste of money...At the end of the year you have paid $180 just to play a video game...That's ridiculous....And once you stop paying? You have nothing.
This type of argument baffles me.
First off, your argument implies that gaming is a waste of money, which is odd that someone would claim this and then frequent games and gaming sites to proclaim how much a waste games are. It is a pretentious argument of hypocrisy.
The fact is, gaming is like any other activity someone chooses to spend time and money on. I am not a big sports fan, in fact... I see going to a stadium, paying 100's of dollars for tickets, food, parking, etc... to watch other people play a game is... well... a waste of money and time.
The difference between you and I is that I:
1) Don't frequent sports sites, gatherings, etc... and demand the venue be free of charge.
And
2) while there go on about how stupid sports are and how much of a waste money they are.
It is ok that you don't want to pay for a game, that you are not a gamer, that you just want cheap entertainment to pass the time. This however is not a valid argument among gamers who enjoy playing games and see money spent on games as worthy of their investment.
Maybe that is why there is a strong divide between F2P and P2P players? A P2P player sees the game worthy of a subscription, and also desires the game to be without aids, cheats, and handouts in play because to them the entire point is the game play and that is why they have no problems paying for it.
F2P on the other hand sees the games as a passing entertainment and any difficulty in game play as being a "hinderance" of their "fun(tm)", so they demand cheats, aids, and "hand outs" in play. Though the odd thing is that F2P games require people to cheat play to stay afloat by buying their progression rather than obtaining it in game, which would invalidate the original F2P argument.
I once knew a guy who went on and on about how wasteful and pointless it was to spend money paying for a sub to play a game, but then would spend several hundred bucks buying items/plat within a game they played.
Now certainly there is the other side of the coin, the people who want to pay nothing (no sub) and refuse to buy in the stores so they can do enormous mundane grinds in a game to achieve the smallest of progression (ie the imbalance of risk vs reward that F2P games have in order to encourage store sales) and while I do know some who like this, they are few and far between as I have noticed most to be hypocritical in this area (ie my first example the F2P player buying items).
Point is, I think you are in the wrong forum and site to be taking the position that gaming is a waste of money. It is a rather silly argument.
The standard sub for a MMO was $15/month back in 2000. It's 2020 now. I'm utterly surprised the monthly rate hasn't gone up due to inflation like pretty much everything else in this world.
The game has two choices. It can go volume or quality like all businesses. By going volume it will have to appease the masses but it will be able to reduce the use cost (ie Walmart). WoW has millions of subs so they can keep subs low or other games go the F2P route hoping to gather whales.
Pantheon is a niche game. It won't be able to garner millions of subs. They will have to charge more to stay open and provide regular updates. Either that or they charge low and updates become very rare.
If Pantheon wants to stick to their guns and remain a niche game, they will have to raise their sub to $20, maybe $25/month. If you are a gamer who really wants a true successor of EQ then you can prove it with your wallets. If they sell out and become another WoW then you can bail like any other game.
I don't think Pantheon is a niche game anymore. They have catered far too much to mainstream principals and focus. I think that at one time they were dedicated to such, but after seeing numerous "revisions" to their FAQ, the language and content change of developers discussions on certain topics (death penalties, travel, etc... and that of referring to EQ/Vanguard as inspiration as well as terms like "old school" and the audiences they seek) I see signs of what the game is becoming.
I invested in the game, but I doubt I will even bother playing it upon release after much of what I have read. I am a little sour on how they rode the backs of the nice fans and then stepped out to mainstream. To be honest though, I am not surprised, it isn't the first company to do such.
I almost always agree with tanist (who are you on the pantheon forum?)
I gave VR a little bit of money but the game they have been making recently is not the game that was advertised when I donated. I doubt I'll play it long term if it does release.
Back on topic, I only pay for pure subscription games. As soon as they go free to play or have a cash shop they dont get a cent from me. That seems to be the general consensus of many others on the Pantheon forum as well. All players being on a level playing field where you can't buy benefits and your merits are based on your skill and time invested is very important.
I will never "play" a non-subscription game long term. I have quit multiple games when they switched from subscription to free to play. When that happens other issues arise as well. Not only does the skill lvl of the average gamer go way way down in a free to play setting but the community goes into the toilet as well. In my experience the community becomes much more immature and toxic in a ftp environment.
MMOs have always been designed with deliberate inconveniences included to either keep you subbing longer or get you to buy relief in the cash shop.
Sub games did it with artificially slow leveling and late game gear grinding treadmills to keep you around until the next expansion.
Cash shop games do it with inadequate inventory, also slow XP with XP boosts for sale and removing all the best cosmetics from the games and putting them in cash shops or loot boxes. Some even go into offricially sanctioned P2W territory although that has always been around for those willing to deal with dodgy third party gold and item sales sites. F2P games also push the crap out of cosmetics and over-develop that side of things often neglecting core game play.
They're all imperfect systems designed to get more money from you but when all is said and done, I much prefer the simpler and less intrusive monetization that a sub only game has.
You can call me the anti-Theocritous
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I almost always agree with tanist (who are you on the pantheon forum?)
I gave VR a little bit of money but the game they have been making recently is not the game that was advertised when I donated. I doubt I'll play it long term if it does release.
Back on topic, I only pay for pure subscription games. As soon as they go free to play or have a cash shop they dont get a cent from me. That seems to be the general consensus of many others on the Pantheon forum as well. All players being on a level playing field where you can't buy benefits and your merits are based on your skill and time invested is very important.
I will never "play" a non-subscription game long term. I have quit multiple games when they switched from subscription to free to play. When that happens other issues arise as well. Not only does the skill lvl of the average gamer go way way down in a free to play setting but the community goes into the toilet as well. In my experience the community becomes much more immature and toxic in a ftp environment.
Tanix is my name on the Pantheon site, but I was banned. My discussions were civil, though not flattering. Without going into details, I was banned because I was disrupting the "community" (among me pointing out Kilsins lack of community moderator experience, never in public chat, which no doubt angered him) and due to several complaints from people who would often bait and insult (I was called a "mansplainer" once) who were apparently part of the "community (tm)".
Anyway. I am more of a "old school" concept of design player. It was the intricacies of game play that I argued, and to which were important to me (long travel, no rubber banding, death penalties with naked runs, etc...) and I argued against many of the mainstream components of play (there were several there who advocated for FFXI features which were counter to the spirit of EQ, ie exp chains and the like) and numerous mainstreamers who claimed they wanted traditional EQ style features, but always seemed to argue for mainstream elements of play (ie they talked the talk, but didn't walk it in their arguments).
Now today, when you look at the forums, all the same arguments that were once "settled" are now being brought up again by Kilsin for discussion and the unfortunate result is that most are supporting mainstream features.
Game honestly is dead to me and my friends who were looking forward to it. We have moved on, though we have hopes for Saga Of Lucima (they certainly are better organized in their development cycles and aren't afraid to estimate their release schedules), but time will tell. /shrug
As for F2P, I won't play it, as you pointed out, it ALWAYS ends with a certain development focus. I also find their F2P "first 10 levels" to be foolhardy and a major under estimation in resources, which will likely result in the game leaning on F2P stores (or shutting it down, not likely), which means this game is likely to be another... well... sucker punch and disappointment.
Could I be wrong? Sure... but this isn't my first rodeo (nor yours it seems).
I almost always agree with tanist (who are you on the pantheon forum?)
I gave VR a little bit of money but the game they have been making recently is not the game that was advertised when I donated. I doubt I'll play it long term if it does release.
Back on topic, I only pay for pure subscription games. As soon as they go free to play or have a cash shop they dont get a cent from me. That seems to be the general consensus of many others on the Pantheon forum as well. All players being on a level playing field where you can't buy benefits and your merits are based on your skill and time invested is very important.
I will never "play" a non-subscription game long term. I have quit multiple games when they switched from subscription to free to play. When that happens other issues arise as well. Not only does the skill lvl of the average gamer go way way down in a free to play setting but the community goes into the toilet as well. In my experience the community becomes much more immature and toxic in a ftp environment.
Tanix is my name on the Pantheon site, but I was banned. My discussions were civil
LOL oh... ya, you definitely weren't civil. I didn't know you were banned but you probably deserved it.
I think the conversations we had that I disagreed with you about stemmed from your lack of raiding experience but I know you argued with a ton of people.
Comments
If the game is good I would pay a higher monthly fee.
These expectations sound basic - however the last few years of new releases have not met all these expectations and I am sick of all the free-to-play/microtransaction BS.
If the game meets these expectations I would be thrilled to pay more per month.
I agree... and I'm not so blind that I don't think there aren't risks that I could lose the money we have invested, though sometimes you have to take chances to make any progress. There will obviously be tons of failures and let downs, though we already have a ton of those now and we invested nothing.
Agreed. I am willing to pay more per month, but expect to get my money's worth.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
Character transfers are out-of-game. Absolutely nothing about the character or his stats have changed.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
Thank you Night
I would agree that nothing about the character changes in game with a character transfer other than being on a physical server. So I personally would also consider this an out of game purchase. Though I see where the other party is coming form as well. However I would like to see some type of time limit placed on character transfers.
I am willing to pay up to 40-50$ / month if Pantheon is like they say it will be.
Make it a real successor to EQ 1 and i don't really care how much it is. Paying for a hobby is not all that special. All my other hobbys cost 200 or more per month. Gaming gives the most hours of all my hobbys tho. So why should i NOT be willing to spend that cash?
The reason people over there are willing to spend more:
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
I believe the bottom line that should be thought about is what is available now and what they want from the future of MMO-RPGs. Even if they hate Brad with a passion and they have any interest at all for a game of this nature, they should be trying to support it to help it succeed.
Without running around yelling the "sky is falling", the mmo-rpgs of today do not hold attention or satisfy a lot of people from the comments and the rise and fall of all the triple A titles I see today. It's like I see a huge title game get released one day and a few months to a year later it's getting shutdown or it's so empty that it might as well be shutdown.
I believe in order to see a change we need to support a little change due to the fact that what is out now obviously isn't working or everyone would be gaming instead of posting in these forums. From what I see and please correct me if I'm wrong; this is the only game giving us that opportunity currently.
If a mmo is truly of "higher quality", which of course is pretty subjective, then it's not entirely unreasonable to expect to pay a price that is on par with the service. However, with that higher price will also come with the assumption that the game is significantly superior to other services offered. Additionally, what is the cut off of the price in terms of superior quality? Five dollars more? 10? 25? How many people are going to truly be willing to spend somewhere in the neighborhood of $25 per month for access to a game?
$15 per month has been pretty standard for at least 16 years in the industry. It's not entirely unreasonable to expect some type of inflation to happen in terms of cost of services. Of course, that's also been the beauty of mmo sub fees, they aren't entirely unreasonable and can be afforded by a significant amount of people.
Plus, there's another question to ask. Will a higher sub fee and lower amount of players really create a better community? Are those who are willing to spend higher dollar amounts for services just inherently better people?
I've asked multiple times on this forum just how much people are willing to pay for an entertainment product. What happens if the company feels like they have made a Lamborghini-quality game and they want to charge a comparable price of $150 / month (US)? In every thread where I've brought this up, there have been any number of people claiming they would pay twice that. I can't help but wonder where they are now.
One movie per month (with popcorn and drink) runs about $20-25 per month. Attending a sporting event once a month in the nose-bleed seats) costs anywhere from $30 and up. Want to sit court side, rink side or on the 50-yard line? Those can run several hundreds per event. Want to take a trip to Vegas or a closer casino for some gambling? Most people plan on a budget of $1000 as a minimum.
The ultimate question is how much are people willing to spend on gaming? So far, no company has seriously asked that question. With a number of visually superior games under development, which company will be the first to say 'The base price of our game is $25 (or $35 or $50) a month. It's worth it.'?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I agree.
I think Chris Rowen should copy and paste, post like this all over his office.
$25/month in return from 200 - 400k players is all they need to be billionaires. Why make a game for everyone, when you can make a game for oldschoolers who have jobs and want to spend on their hobby & entertainment..?
Perceived value.
People will pay what they perceive is a fair price for goods or services, thats basic marketing.
Now on to Advanced marketing Perceived Prestige, if you can convince people that there is prestige attached to a "Premium" Service you can get them to pay more money to be associated with this prestige, people like associations to validate them selves, so appeal to their sense of wanting to be special and you will suddenly have a second revenue stream, which will removing the players from the first stream, places them in a second one which is worth more value per head than the first.
So overall you get more money.
Marketing
I think marketing to vanity or perceived prestige is dangerous in the video game industry. Even if the average backer on Pantheon's site is 30-40+, video games are something enjoyed by people of all ages and incomes. I still believe Pantheon stands to make more from mass popularity than they do from having a small core of players willing to pay more money.
In recent years, there have been several hardcore titles ranging from rpg, to shooter, to survival games that have had great success. There is still an audience for that type of gameplay, but again, if the game isn't accessible, I don't believe it will break through that popularity threshold. Its the same principle used in marketing where they advertise a product at lower cost for a limited time to get as many people hooked as possible. Raising the sub would be like doing the opposite, and I think its very risky.
I feel like I always have to add this disclaimer though: the price should be whatever it needs to be in order to keep the ship sailing. No more, no less.
My suggestion:
Start with a fee of $15 for around 6 month or so and evaluate the situation after that when they see how popular the game is. After that maybe (if it's necessary) increase the fee slightly, but not by $5-$10, but more with $2 to $3 or so. Otherwise I suspect people will leave the game or feel it's pointless to even try out the game, if they feel it costs to much. This game will focus on grouping, but it will be no grouping if you have none to group up with. This will cause that even those who likes the game will end their subscription so the servers will feel desert empty. As it's a group based game it's important the game attracts lots of people to start playing the game. So I hope Brad will make a good decision here.
Edit:
Also high subscription fee will probably also affect the scores on reviews negative.
So all non-physical media is "nothing". Good logic there cutie.
The game has two choices. It can go volume or quality like all businesses. By going volume it will have to appease the masses but it will be able to reduce the use cost (ie Walmart). WoW has millions of subs so they can keep subs low or other games go the F2P route hoping to gather whales.
Pantheon is a niche game. It won't be able to garner millions of subs. They will have to charge more to stay open and provide regular updates. Either that or they charge low and updates become very rare.
If Pantheon wants to stick to their guns and remain a niche game, they will have to raise their sub to $20, maybe $25/month. If you are a gamer who really wants a true successor of EQ then you can prove it with your wallets. If they sell out and become another WoW then you can bail like any other game.
Also, that's absolutely nothing for money = entertainment time. If you were to buy Ballgame tickets, tickets to the theater/show whatever, or even just go to the movies all year you would be paying a lot more.
Especially when you add up how many hours you were actually spending compared to the price. What you get is the experience.
And if you played 2 hours per week you'd be paying 3.75 per week for 2 hours of entertainment. Most likely people would play a little more than that.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I would easily pay $20 a month as long as good quality updates.
Mmorpgs free-to- play is a bunch of BULL SHIT !...AND SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN.
I hope the F2P people stay away from this game, it's pollution.
I gave VR a little bit of money but the game they have been making recently is not the game that was advertised when I donated. I doubt I'll play it long term if it does release.
Back on topic, I only pay for pure subscription games. As soon as they go free to play or have a cash shop they dont get a cent from me. That seems to be the general consensus of many others on the Pantheon forum as well.
All players being on a level playing field where you can't buy benefits and your merits are based on your skill and time invested is very important.
I will never "play" a non-subscription game long term. I have quit multiple games when they switched from subscription to free to play. When that happens other issues arise as well.
Not only does the skill lvl of the average gamer go way way down in a free to play setting but the community goes into the toilet as well. In my experience the community becomes much more immature and toxic in a ftp environment.
Sub games did it with artificially slow leveling and late game gear grinding treadmills to keep you around until the next expansion.
Cash shop games do it with inadequate inventory, also slow XP with XP boosts for sale and removing all the best cosmetics from the games and putting them in cash shops or loot boxes. Some even go into offricially sanctioned P2W territory although that has always been around for those willing to deal with dodgy third party gold and item sales sites. F2P games also push the crap out of cosmetics and over-develop that side of things often neglecting core game play.
They're all imperfect systems designed to get more money from you but when all is said and done, I much prefer the simpler and less intrusive monetization that a sub only game has.
You can call me the anti-Theocritous
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
LOL oh... ya, you definitely weren't civil. I didn't know you were banned but you probably deserved it.
I think the conversations we had that I disagreed with you about stemmed from your lack of raiding experience but I know you argued with a ton of people.