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Combat improved

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  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,524
    Originally posted by Stuka1000
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Elsabolts
    As with all things Funcom it should be avoided !

    thays a nonsense comment, this game is incredibly well done, except for the tactical and strategical layers of the combat system.. and some combat annimations..

     

    sadly funcom fails to see this, or just has no solution for it...  The seven skills with no depth combat system just does not work for to many people... 

     

    if they just would totally overhaul the combat system,  it would be an awesome game, i can think of many many ideas for making 7 button combat work and have depth...

    Everyone is welcome to their own opinion.  I think TSW is the worst thing Funcom have ever produced.

    Yeah i have to agree with this. I think people like the setting so much that they overlook the horrible combat system. I love the story and setting but i can't get past the horrible combat. And i didn't notice any change in making mobs easier to kill like they said they did. Its the fault of all the time you waste finding the right build in this game. Which sucks the fun right out of it. People like to say this makes the game a mature one which i find stupid.

  • hehenephehenep Member UncommonPosts: 221
    Originally posted by Hariken

    And i didn't notice any change in making mobs easier to kill like they said they did.

    It depends on how far into the game's story you were. The earlier in the story you were the more of a difference in the time to kill you saw. It dropped so much in Kingsmouth that you don't even really need a second consumer to defeat most of the quest 'boss' monsters. I think the only zone that was unchanged after the patch was Kaidan (Tokyo) and that had its own enemy difficulty reduction a little while before.

  • ThillianThillian Member UncommonPosts: 3,156
    Originally posted by 430005
    Originally posted by Uccisore

    I can see complaining about TSW combat, but I can't see comparing it to SWTOR or GW2 like they are better. 

    Combat has been boring and dumpy in just about every MMO I've played since Auto Assault.

    Then we will have to agree to disagree. The reviews and numbers say something intirely different.

     

    If you still want facts.

     

    What numbers???

    TSW had very poor initial sales, the RETENTION of players who actually bought the game is probably MULTIPLE times higher than it is in SWTOR or GW2. Whatever numbers you pull out about subscription numbers or active players HAS zero to do with combat feedback.

    The feedback about combat is just over-exaggarated into extreme and it somehow lives its own life in this website AND NOWHERE ELSE.

    I actually think the combat is among the best among MMORPG. It's extremely fluid, it allows the greatest customization I know of, and it has tons of synergy effects and special combinations. The difference between a good build and a bad one is ENORMOUS, thus for most of the people who are too, well lazy, to make a good build, the combat might appear as slow and hard. 

     

    REALITY CHECK

  • 430005430005 Member Posts: 52
    Originally posted by Thillian

    TSW had very poor initial sales, the RETENTION of players who actually bought the game is probably MULTIPLE times higher than it is in SWTOR or GW2. Whatever numbers you pull out about subscription numbers or active players HAS zero to do with combat feedback.

    Combat feedback is a part of the player experience and it is one the big critiques. I'm sorry but TSW isnt doing better:

    NCsoft (GW2) stock: http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=036570.KS+Interactive#{%22range%22%3A%221y%22%2C%22scale%22%3A%22linear%22}
    Funcom (TSW) stock: http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=FUNCOM.OL+Interactive#{%22range%22%3A%221y%22%2C%22scale%22%3A%22linear%22}

    I have to move various guilds in TSW because they keep dying. That is not the case in SWTOR or GW2. Nuff said?

    Originally posted by Thillian

    The feedback about combat is just over-exaggarated into extreme and it somehow lives its own life in this website AND NOWHERE ELSE.


    Totalbiscuit got an embargo from Funcom for his playthough in beta, but it's still valid today (ok, dodge got added). No other big Youtuber touched TSW for a review after that. Look for the trend regarding "uninspired combat" and "cashgrab" in the following:

    TB's first impressions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFZQH8D2Z-I&feature=plcp
    IGN's game review: http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/07/26/the-secret-world-review
    Gamespot's review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6pBrfLHYkI
    PC Gamer's review: http://www.pcgamer.com/the-secret-world-review/

     

    Originally posted by Hariken

    I love the story and setting but i can't get past the horrible combat.

    I can live with the combat feedback, because for me it gets overruled by the experience of the fun quests and atmosphere of the story TSW has to offer. However I can admit (as do others) TSW isn't a perfect gem, which explains the numbers at launch, but also current:

    http://www.funcom.com/investors/funcoms_fourth_quarter_financial_report_for_2014

    I fail to see why you would want to make combat a big issue. Even if the system has merit, the feedback isn't good. And TSW has more flaws. Doesn't make the game bad though.

     

  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,498
    So if i had bought the base game when the game launched and nothing since then...

    how many issues do i have to buy and how much are they all?

  • ThillianThillian Member UncommonPosts: 3,156
    Originally posted by 430005
    Originally posted by Thillian

    TSW had very poor initial sales, the RETENTION of players who actually bought the game is probably MULTIPLE times higher than it is in SWTOR or GW2. Whatever numbers you pull out about subscription numbers or active players HAS zero to do with combat feedback.

    Combat feedback is a part of the player experience and it is one the big critiques. I'm sorry but TSW isnt doing better:

    NCsoft (GW2) stock: http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=036570.KS+Interactive#{%22range%22%3A%221y%22%2C%22scale%22%3A%22linear%22}
    Funcom (TSW) stock: http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=FUNCOM.OL+Interactive#{%22range%22%3A%221y%22%2C%22scale%22%3A%22linear%22}

     

    I think its absolutely ridiculous and demagogic to link ONE part of a game with the ENTIRE FINANCIAL SITUATION of the company. That's a logic fallacy number one.

    The links you provided were pre-reviews of beta version and bears no IMPORTANCE. In addition, I can provide you 10 negative REVIEWS/LINKS to any game you think is perfect, because there are always some people with OPPOSITE OPINION to yours, and no game has only positive reviews across the ENTIRE INTERNET. 

    In your post you have made about 5 logic fallacies as described here, which I recommend you to read: 

    https://bookofbadarguments.com/

    I especially highlight those for you, which you seem to use fairly often:

    • Argument from Consequences
    • Appeal to Irrelevant Authority
    • False Dilemma
    • Hasty Generalization
    • Appeal to the Bandwagon (very important!)

     

     

     

    REALITY CHECK

  • 430005430005 Member Posts: 52
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    So if i had bought the base game when the game launched and nothing since then...

    The base game includes DLC 1-4 (you receive 1200 FC points after doing 30 quests) US$ 10,19

    - Issue 1: Unleashed
    - Issue 2: Digging Deeper
    - Issue 3: The Cat God
    - Issue 4: Big Trouble in the Big Apple
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Everything DLC 5 and up needs to be purchased. Look for the package deals like:

    The Secret World: Massive Edition (http://store.steampowered.com/app/261130/) US$ 23,99

    (EDIT: This package includes the base game and is NOT an upgrade of just DLC 5, 6 and 7.)

    - Issue 5: The Vanishing of Tyler Freeborn
    - Issue 6: The Last Train to Cairo
    - Issue 7: A Dream to Kill
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If you are buying the Massive Edition, consider buying issue 8 with the free 1200 FC points..

    - Issue 8: The Venetian Agenda (1200 FC points, in-game store)
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Because the next package deal includes 9, 10 and 11 as The Fall of Tokyo pack US$ 29.99

    - Issue  9: The Black Signal
    - Issue 10: Nightmares in the Dream Palace
    - Issue 11: Reaping the Whirlwind

    Now this last pack is Funcom direct, so it might be offered cheaper through Steam later.
    Also note this is the new area Tokyo which requires you to have higher QL gear to play.

  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,498
    Originally posted by 430005
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    So if i had bought the base game when the game launched and nothing since then...

    The base game includes DLC 1-4 (you receive 1200 FC points after doing 30 quests) US$ 10,19

    - Issue 1: Unleashed
    - Issue 2: Digging Deeper
    - Issue 3: The Cat God
    - Issue 4: Big Trouble in the Big Apple
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Everything DLC 5 and up needs to be purchased. Look for the package deals like:

    The Secret World: Massive Edition (http://store.steampowered.com/app/261130/) US$ 23,99

    - Issue 5: The Vanishing of Tyler Freeborn
    - Issue 6: The Last Train to Cairo
    - Issue 7: A Dream to Kill
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If you are buying the Massive Edition, consider buying issue 8 with the 1200 FC points..

    - Issue 8: The Venetian Agenda
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Because the next package deal includes 9, 10 and 11 as The Fall of Tokyo pack US$ 29.99

    - Issue  9: The Black Signal
    - Issue 10: Nightmares in the Dream Palace
    - Issue 11: Reaping the Whirlwind

    Now this last pack is Funcom direct, so it might be offered cheaper through Steam later.
    Also note this is the new area Tokyo which requires you to have higher QL gear to play.

    Perfect, thats great info, thanks dude

  • dancingstardancingstar Member UncommonPosts: 362
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by 430005
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    So if i had bought the base game when the game launched and nothing since then...

    The base game includes DLC 1-4 (you receive 1200 FC points after doing 30 quests) US$ 10,19

    - Issue 1: Unleashed
    - Issue 2: Digging Deeper
    - Issue 3: The Cat God
    - Issue 4: Big Trouble in the Big Apple
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Everything DLC 5 and up needs to be purchased. Look for the package deals like:

    The Secret World: Massive Edition (http://store.steampowered.com/app/261130/) US$ 23,99

    - Issue 5: The Vanishing of Tyler Freeborn
    - Issue 6: The Last Train to Cairo
    - Issue 7: A Dream to Kill
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If you are buying the Massive Edition, consider buying issue 8 with the 1200 FC points..

    - Issue 8: The Venetian Agenda
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Because the next package deal includes 9, 10 and 11 as The Fall of Tokyo pack US$ 29.99

    - Issue  9: The Black Signal
    - Issue 10: Nightmares in the Dream Palace
    - Issue 11: Reaping the Whirlwind

    Now this last pack is Funcom direct, so it might be offered cheaper through Steam later.
    Also note this is the new area Tokyo which requires you to have higher QL gear to play.

    Perfect, thats great info, thanks dude

    If you bought the base game any time before the sub requirement was dropped you already own Issue #5.

    Issue #8 consists solely of 2 extra maps and 1 extra difficulty mode for Scenarios (similar sort of concept to LOTRO's Skirmishes but with rather less variety at the moment), an aspect of TSW which a significant or at least vocal part of the player base hates. You don't need to own the paid DLC to do the corresponding arc of the main story; I'd suggest not spending money or points on it until you've run a few to see what you think about them.

  • 430005430005 Member Posts: 52
    Originally posted by Thillian

    The links you provided were pre-reviews of beta version and bears no IMPORTANCE.

    I understand your white knighting but it doesn't fly. All the reviews i posted are from AFTER the game went live, hence a REview and not a PREview. I clearly stated TB's first impression was of beta (and that most of his comments still apply to this day).

     

    I could post reviews other then IGN, Gamespot or PCgamer that would tell you just the same. What you should focus on, is while they all say combat feedback is an issue, none of em are BAD reviews. So TSW isnt stellar. It's still a good game.

     

    Back to combat feedback, ya, it's pretty clear that for most it's undoubtly one of the flaws in TSW. You wanna keep at it?

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,373
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by 430005
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    So if i had bought the base game when the game launched and nothing since then...


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Everything DLC 5 and up needs to be purchased. Look for the package deals like:

    The Secret World: Massive Edition (http://store.steampowered.com/app/261130/) US$ 23,99

    - Issue 5: The Vanishing of Tyler Freeborn
    - Issue 6: The Last Train to Cairo
    - Issue 7: A Dream to Kill
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    Perfect, thats great info, thanks dude

    There was an earlier post about it I guess, if you have the game since launch then most likely you have Issue 5 too. Also, the Massive Edition contains the base game and cannot added to an existing game, there's a Massive upgrade for that - but of course it's up to you whether you need a new account or not, depends on the characters you have on your present account... (either Massive upgrade for 30, you'll have 1 account up to Issue 7, or Massive Edition for 24 and you'll have 1 account up to Issue 7 PLUS your old account up to Issue 5)

    Above that, Issue 9 and beyond, the Tokyo pack is a great purchase.

    edit: Issue 8, I agree with dancingstar above, it's ignorable :) but maybe you'll be one of the few who likes Scenarios, in that case you can buy it later too.

  • 430005430005 Member Posts: 52
    Originally posted by Po_gg

    Also, the Massive Edition contains the base game and cannot added to an existing game, there's a Massive upgrade for that - but of course it's up to you whether you need a new account or not, depends on the characters you have on your present account... (either Massive upgrade for 30, you'll have 1 account up to Issue 7, or Massive Edition for 24 and you'll have 1 account up to Issue 7 PLUS your old account up to Issue 5)

    Good call, forgot the Massive Edition already has the base game included, which wouldnt be a fit.

     

    Well, I suggest Google for package deals. I found an upgrade for Issue 5, 6 and 7 for $12,62,-

    http://www.g2play.net/category/6022/the-secret-world-massive-upgrade-pack/

    You can also buy the base game for 10 bucks without going through Steam..

  • 430005430005 Member Posts: 52
    < double post >
  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,498

    to be honest to upgrade my account it's $30 and the massive edition is $23 my character finished the entire story back when game launched and had a bit of end game dungeon gear...

     

    https://chronicle.thesecretworld.com/character/Harath

     

    it honestly seems like it would be worth while just buying the massive edition and starting a new character

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,373

    That's why I wrote it's up to you, and your already existing characters.

    The upgrade is only 30 through the official way, from your Account page. Earlier it was sold separately too, that's why you can still find the upgrade on gamekey selling sites like the one linked above for cheaper.

    To be honest, I'd go with a new account as well :) your older account will still be there, so it doesn't mean you can't play that character, now Tokyo access is free, one Scenario is free as well, etc. On the other hand you'll have 3 more character slots (which would cost 30 bucks on its own), starter gear, and two more Issues for those new characters.

     

    edit: more precisely, I'd say at first download the game, play around a bit, check Issue #5, check the changes, etc. Then you still can decide whether it's an upgrade, or a new account is the better :)

  • DanitaKusorDanitaKusor Member UncommonPosts: 556
    Originally posted by 430005
    [mod edit]

    How about you guys stay on topic and discuss the arguments I put in? TSW shines in atmosphere and story but please don't act it's all unicorns and rainbows.

    I beg to differ

    https://mmogamerchick.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/savage-coast-lair.jpg

    https://mmogamerchick.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/unicorn.jpg

    The Enlightened take things Lightly

  • AmegashieAmegashie Member UncommonPosts: 289
    Originally posted by DwarfZZZ

    I don't think they don't see it. It seems that Funcom has a skelton crew and loads of financial problems.

     

    I'm not quite sure which way the causation goes though. Starting with Anarchy Online FunCom have never been able to adress clearly identifiable issues in an even remotely timely manner. The AoC crafting revamp saga may be the starkest example, but it most certainly isn't the only one.

     

    I'd argue that that is a major reason they're doing so poorly as a company, not a consequence thereof.

  • KazuhiroKazuhiro Member UncommonPosts: 582

    Yeah the terrible combat system is the only reason I dislike the secret world. Loved the story, loved the atmosphere, and while the areas were overcrowded with too many different creatures (Monster zoo) the areas themselves looked nice. But man did that game's combat suck royally.

    I still hope that one day a company will buy the game from funcom, totally redo the awful combat mechanics, and make it into an amazing game I'd go back and finish.

    To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.

  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,337
    I think it's one of the better games out right now.  However, I don't think you'll find many that laud the combat

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,968
    I played right after the revamp.  Combat was the same.  The difference was mobs had lower hp so died faster and some skills felt buffed.  I really like the theme of this game but combat is for me also a no no.  It was funny when a loading screen came up saying you can kite mobs because in some areas mobs are placed so close together the only thing you can do is stand next to one stand there and kill it, if you try to kite it you will aggro one or two other mobs and have three to deal with instead of the one.  Oh well, I still play once in a great while but only certain areas.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • BitripBitrip Member UncommonPosts: 279
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    I loved all and everything about the game, yet i never could get into the combat....

     

    not so much the execution, but with only 7 abbilities it felt way to much like hack and slash witouth tactical and strategical depth... Way to repetitive with repetition of the same buttons time after time..  Espescially when compared to GW2 or even neverwinter combat it fell short by miles

     

     

    my question is, how much did the combat improve? 

    Combat is the main thing I hate about the game too...otherwise it would be my #1. I still remember when I booted it up during closed beta...I about lost my mind when you got to the part where you're outside the train station, it was just too amazing.

    image
    Now, which one of you will adorn me today?

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,495

    The last time i played (probably 1-2 months ago) the combat was the same it was at launch. Like OP, the combat is the only thing i cant get into. When i play the game i try to do combat only when necessary, on missions where i have to fight (duh). 

     

    I could live with thew 7 skill limit on the hotbar if the combat wasnt badly design. IMO its badly designed because every weapon, every build, everything related to combat is a poor combo/finisher WoW rogue type of nonsense. The animations are poor but the combo/finisher down your throat hurts the game more than the bad animations themselves or the 7 skill limit. Again, my opinion based on my own experience.





  • 430005430005 Member Posts: 52
    Originally posted by Amegashie

    I'm not quite sure which way the causation goes though. Starting with Anarchy Online FunCom have never been able to adress clearly identifiable issues in an even remotely timely manner. The AoC crafting revamp saga may be the starkest example, but it most certainly isn't the only one.

     

    I'd argue that that is a major reason they're doing so poorly as a company, not a consequence thereof.


    Couldnt agree with you more. It's clear to see the ideas Funcom had with their games and on that level it couldve been a major success. That's why these last years have just been terrible to watch.

     

    TSW also suffers from some gripes on an operational gameplay level, while the concept is fantastic. The fact they did not pick up the slack is more of a consequence Funcom is in the gutter right now.

     

    People have been pointing out issues for TSW since beta. But I guess Funcom rather wanted to keep listening to the fanbois and put the blame on GW2 and SWTOR. It's just about marketing, right?

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 18,388

    I always admit that combat is what does it for me.I felt the combat system was really weak but also seeing predictable scenarios and hand holding really added to the "cya" result of my stay in game.

    If i even look back at their last game,i was caught up enjoying it for a full month.Eventually i realized the lack of skill Funcom has in making a MMORPG.They seem set on single player NON mmo game design.

    I don't know what it is ,they come close to making a really good game but perhaps lack the TEAM to get all the systems right.Not enough employees,too many different ideas from too many people,idk but they definitely need to change the way they operate and who does what.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • hehenephehenep Member UncommonPosts: 221
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    I always admit that combat is what does it for me.I felt the combat system was really weak but also seeing predictable scenarios and hand holding really added to the "cya" result of my stay in game.

    Would you mind elaborating on the hand holding bit for me a little? It's not a complaint I've heard levied against the game all that much. Usually the complaint falls in the other direction.

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