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Has a Non-Trinity MMO ever made you more interested in the Trinity?
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,411
Has a Non-Trinity MMO ever made you more interested in the Trinity?
If so, how did it do so?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
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Yeah, any game with weak character specialization tends to have lousy, messy grouping (DF and to a lesser degree GW2.)
Happens more often with FPS class design. Planetside's classes were disappointing, with heavy assault being a do-everything design with no clear counter and MAXes being outright overpowered. The soft-class-counter system of TF2 was better, where each spawn you can switch to the soft-counter class of whatever the big enemy threats are. My suggested fix was a soft-loadout-system, where your loadout determined which class(es) you were good and bad agains (your class would remain an overall playstyle choice, so if you wanted to be a sneaky cloaker you could always be one, and you'd choose one loadout to beat heavies and another to beat MAXes, and so on.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I was very excited for GW2. Everyone responsible for themselves, everyone pulls their own weight. Sounded great. Thus began the months of horrible uncoordinated die and run back before the Boss resets tragedy.
The reality was horrible and really reinforced with me the desire not only to play games with the trinity but to seek out games with very defined roles such as trinity in addition to CC and Support.
I will always be willing to try something that is different but after that experience I'm not optimistic someone is going to come up with something better.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Not really, I never was "off the trinity".
I dont want too specialized classes, thats boring to play.
I dont want classes that can do everything, either.
I like the idea of classes having a primary task, but having a secondary task as well.
In short, I dont like EQ, I dont like GW2, I like Vanguard.
No trinty games (and they are older than MMOs, D&D was no trinity, trinty is purely MMO invention) just reinforced how stupid trinty is and that its limiting factor in every way.
Trinity is just dumbed down regular combat. The more you "specialize" the more you dumb down combat/content.
Yah it can be hard to switch from preset role that is mandated to you by the game and figuring your role on your own.
And going out of trinity box. And adapting to something new and more complex.
"it made me miss the trinity"="it reminded me how lazy i am"
I've always been more of a healer/support style character, and I liked the games that supported that feature. Guild Wars 2 (for example) was awkward for me at first in the department but once I got use to the guardian it was just a matter of using abilities and the other players paying attention and making use of their own abilities.
If you are use to playing those for so many years, they stick with you even after leaving the game. So going into a game that does not have that feature you are left confused sometimes on what you are going to do.
It's not to say customization of a character is bad, some people just feel lost I suppose if they are only focused on one role. Where the other roles like tanking or healing are replaced with a dodge and heal abilities that only work on yourself depending on what you do.
I don't want to shoehorn myself into the trinity box, but I do prefer unique class defining skills.. Today's games are very limiting in the roles a person can perform and seem watered down.. Almost every game I've played since EQ has some form of rogue/thief, but they don't steal anything? COUGH COUGH.. Why can't I play a RPG game where I make a living stealing/pick pocketing PvE content.. Paladins that actually play like one..
There are so many options out there to make a vibrant rpg game, however one thing that has to be addressed and ignored is PvP combat balance.. SCREW THAT.. If my character has the ability to mind control and charm a target for 5 minutes.. OH WELL.. If my warrior has the ability to knock you out for up to 5 minutes.. OH WELL.. If my necro fears you and you run blindly away for 1 minute.. OH WELL.. If my druid roots your ass for up to 5 minutes.. OH WELL.. Ya'll get the idea, PvP balance has to be ignored for the sake of PvE role play..
So.. I don't demand class defining roles, but I do want to see class defining skills/abilities.. How a player uses those skills is up to them.. In my dream game, each class would have a unique skill not shared by others, such as rez.. In addition each class would have a secondary skills that can be shared between multiple classes, such as healing.. As a general rule of thumb tho, similar to GW2 I do enjoy classes have have the ability to solo combat, even squishies.. However, I think GW2 allows for too much dps, and not enough class defining skills, so you end up with zergwars.
Absolutely - the zerg mess, the everyone is dps, the trivialized combat(dependant on reaction skills only) and mobs just randomly bounce around is horrible. I realy prefere the good structure and strategic combat of trinity games unless the trinity is too trivial.
that summed it for me
i loved gw2 but the group system is horrible, the lack of LFG tool and the endgame meta is horrendous.
on paper the idea was awesome ..... on paper ._.
some games like COH did it right , there were tanks and "healing" heroes , but wasnt forced , encouraged but thats it
the amount of fun i had in a full controller team
, or full fire blaster team ^^ fire everywhere!
I feel the opposite. I love the no hard trinity in GW2. That doesn't mean I can't play a game with a defined Trinity system but GW2 is refreshing. There is a LFG tool in GW2 now actually.
Non-trinity games are too zergy for me. It is just chaos and spamming.
I like strategy and difficulty in battles, not street fighter.
I can play trinity MMOs, hell, ive been playing them for over 10 years now, but back then when i first lerned the mechanic and sat to think it over, it was nonsensical then and it even got more nonsensical over the years. Its just dumbed down combat for the sake of simplicity.
Sorry the trinity mechanic is so yesterday. It is boring as heck and was designed when AI's had to be simple.
And, there is zerging in Trinity games also.
Not really because i have never lost focus on Trinity.There si absolutely ZERO reason to sway from Trinity,it only tells me the developer doesn't know what they are doing if they can't make Trinity work.
Trinity offers CONTROLLED combat,that is a HUGE plus for me,last thing i want to see is bunny hopping and constant circle strafing.Trinity offers the ability to make a great game WITHOUT balance and again that is a very good thing.
I think the biggest problem is the GREED,every developer is trying to offer a pve and a pvp game to get the most money out of it.All you do then is make two weak designs neither one being as good as it could be.
Here is the real kicker,Trinity offers players the ability to play a ROLE ,well whatya know,whoda thunk it ,a ROLE in a ROLE playing game,just doesn't seem to make any sense does it.
There is sooooo much yet to be done in a trinity design,it only tells me there are a ton of producers and system designers,that should get up out of their chair and find a new job,they don't know how to design a game or systems.Instead they like to make EXCUSES,we don't need Trinity because ...insert excuse here......!
ANYTHING you can do without Trinity can also be done with Trinity only better because you keep the ROLE playing in a role playing game,so there is no acceptable excuse,only bad game designers.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The problem isn't with the lack of trinity it's that they still design dungeons to be played in the same way you would with the trinity which obviously doesn't work. Don't know how they'd correct this, especially with the added problem of having players just want to zerg the place.
trinty was exuse for dunbing down combat and make it simplistic
And what does trinity have to do with bunny hopping/circle strafing? You do ralize that that is all about TAB TARGET lol
This kind of super poor arguments shows that people dont really get what trinity is and what it isnt.
Non trinity game can be slow, even turn based. Non trinty game can have tab target.
And when you define role as TANK in RPG thats when you know that there isnt any RPG in the game.
Yup, GW2 started like that but their designs constantly improve and start to go out of confines of trinity (wurm, teq...)
Devs need to learn, it isnt simplistic as trinity where everything is laid out for you so you dont have to think that much. But then it produces super boring, predictable combat.
I couldn't have said this better myself. This is also what I want, and also the short comings in GW2.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
If the trinity system would have never been invented this genre would have been much better off imho. Imagine if mmorpgs had started out non-trinity to begin with we would have all learned to play that way. If a developer came along later and said "look, we have this new system called Holy Trinity" we all would have dismissed it quickly. It is unnatural to me, and loses game immersity when you have to have a certain team to fight an enemy. A band of players should be able to just gather together and go fight for glory!
The system GW2 has in place needs fixing, but in general I like what they have started. I'm not sure I could answer the OPs question right off, but there just isn't one reason I would want to play it other than that is what the norm is.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Im not sure about the few mmorpgs before UO but my experience with UO was that there was absolutely no trinity so I did learn to play mmorpgs without a trinity. Yes, with EQ when it was released, for me personally I did as you thought and completely dismissed it with its trinity and PVE systems and did not enjoy it.
As for the OP, no i've never played a non trinity game that made me want the trinity more. Could care less about the trinity.
Was about to write somewhat exactly what you said, but i found it faster to just quote
This.
Goes back to the beginning; "But we have the white wizard. That's got to count for something."