But clearly having his name associated is detrimental to the project as evidenced here on this forum and throughout the internet. at this point i'm willing to wager that out weighs the pros of having his name on it.
Lets just say for argument sake they kicked brad, re-branded and started a new kick stater campaign with their design in tact, it would be more likely to succeed because you have already seen success with other games of the same design of over the last 1-2 years.
I don't think the majority people care who is behind these re-imaginings as long as they say all the right things and convey what people want to hear.
It isn't though. See, I think the gossip was "small part" of the problem, but most of it was because they had a very weak and disorganized KS.
If they got rid of Brad, I know I would not buy the thing. Brad has a proven record of content and I know the truth about the gossip. So, getting rid of him would end my interest in the game and I am sure a lot of others would feel the same as I do because without Brad, all we have is yet another MMO company claiming to bring back the old school feeling of the past and how did those work out? So, getting rid of him would be a disaster.
Also, if you think the majority of people who are interested in this game are the tools we see in mainstream? Yeah, I think you really don't understand the issue here. you see, we aren't kids, this isn't our first rodeo and we have been through the whole "saying the right things and telling people what they want to hear" many times and know the result of such BS tactics. That crap may work on the average mainstream MMO gamer today, it won't work on this crowd.
Kickstarter success is about very good presentation of the idea and saying the right things. That require lots of work and communication skills, and first timers are often surpriced by how much efford actually needs to go into a ks campaign. On top of that you need to create alot of attention.
I believe they already stated that they were not properly prepared for this, and that lesson has been learned.
The other thing they failed on is targeting their audience. You can recreate eq and make vets happy but that crowd can never support a full new game. They needed and still need to get out of that eq box, only keep the eq spirit but using all the good mechanics invented since then.. Not all changes are bad per definition. They forgot to say speak to the new players, those who have not played eq but are still tiered of shallow themepark. And last, the Brad hating and lies hasn't helped either, and he should have seen the shitstorm comming and taken appropriate measures.. For example to not put himself as CEO, but instead as visionary and game director, while having more management skilled people do that job... That would have shut up some of the opposers.
The last team that was working on Pantheon was likely realized as bad for Pantheon, on the basis of religious, bias, ethical and-or political views. Many people certainly expressed that team as an issue to the future of Pantheon for those reasons. That did likely play some role in that team no longer working on Pantheon. They also likely went back to the Religious-based MMO they were previously working on, for which those reasons to leave Pantheon, would not as greatly if at all effect the outcome of that other project...
Even with that being said, Brad McQuaid still managed to assemble another team to work on Pantheon. This must speak to some degree, of the belief others (professional developers themselves mind you) have in Pantheon, Brad McQuaid's vision. It reminds me of a single scene. A scene whereas everyone decides to throw stones at an accused. A scene whereas the accused's team stands behind the accused (and that team must stand behind the accused given how Pantheon has been progressing). That scene you may remember, that scene from A Knight's Tale...
Again I will ask, if it is that we are not to support Pantheon, then what other MMORPG like it is there to support? If we ourselves are not willing to lay down $100 or more, what reason do investors have to fully fund such MMORPGs? As it is, we have heard people say that Wildstar and ESO stand as proof, to there no longer being a market to what Pantheon will bring if supported. Sure, such as myself and others recognize the flaws in that "proof," but that road is already being traveled down. Without any other potential MMORPG of it's kind, there is no showing that there is a market for this audience. It will be the final nail in what appears to be the coffin, the coffin that you helped ultimately build. It is in this respect at the very least, Pantheon should be supported... if not for Pantheon itself, then at the very least to once and for all prove that such an MMORPG does in fact have an audience worth appeasing. And who knows, maybe Pantheon itself will even become a pleasant surprise.
If you still have any doubts, just consider... Pantheon itself does appear to be moving along. Pantheon does appear to have actually taken real work and time already, work and time to an extent that makes it seem highly unlikely, that the claimed end product is not a seriously intended goal. Pantheon will likely be the MMORPG to revive the direction of MMORPGs, resulting in a Pantheon of proper MMORPGs, or it will itself become a final pillar in the Pantheon of MMORPGs and their vision which once held integrity...
I'm with you 100% that this project needs to be supported, but at this time I haven't invested for specific reasons. I don't throw my money down a bottomless pit without accountability. I have written a letter directly to them in regards to several factors that I feel need to be addressed before I can invest. The main one is money tracking, goal setting, and rewarding investors with more than the ability to test their game. They have stated multiple times that the reason everquest was such a success was the great team of qualified testers they had during their alpha/beta. This marketing scheme of having people pay to work for you is a gimmick used by subpar games to get a cash grab during genre down times.
If they just polish up their process and show me their making correct decisions I will invest 1k tomorrow, but until then we will just have to wait.
Originally posted by MightyUnclean This game sounds great to me, on paper. Why do you think the Kickstarter only raised $400K out of, what, $800K? Was it lack of advertising? Not enough disgruntled old guys like me who want this type of game? Other games like Crowfall are still funding, so I guess it's not that the crowd funding types are burnt out yet...
Due to a total lack of confidence in Brad McQuaid to deliver on his promises. Now is that outlook fair to Mr. McQuaid? I honestly don't know but it seems to have become a widely held opinion ever since he bowed out of Vanguard.
Ignorance is bliss for some, but I honestly don't think those that choose to wallow in such ignorance of the issue really are interested in Brad's game in the first place. I spent a while arguing with a person over the this issue a while back and after all the discussion, the conceded the problem with their claims and then said they didn't care anyway because EQ was boring and Vanguard sucked.
See the problem here? Those who are truly interested in seeing a spiritual successor to EQ/Vanguard will be willing to look into the issue a bit more, willing to look at the facts rather than act like cattle to be herded to slaughter. Those who aren't, well... as my example suggests, it is likely they never cared anyway.
Originally posted by NitthBut clearly having his name associated is detrimental to the project as evidenced here on this forum and throughout the internet. at this point i'm willing to wager that out weighs the pros of having his name on it.Lets just say for argument sake they kicked brad, re-branded and started a new kick stater campaign with their design in tact, it would be more likely to succeed because you have already seen success with other games of the same design of over the last 1-2 years.I don't think the majority people care who is behind these re-imaginings as long as they say all the right things and convey what people want to hear.
It isn't though. See, I think the gossip was "small part" of the problem, but most of it was because they had a very weak and disorganized KS.
If they got rid of Brad, I know I would not buy the thing. Brad has a proven record of content and I know the truth about the gossip. So, getting rid of him would end my interest in the game and I am sure a lot of others would feel the same as I do because without Brad, all we have is yet another MMO company claiming to bring back the old school feeling of the past and how did those work out? So, getting rid of him would be a disaster.
Also, if you think the majority of people who are interested in this game are the tools we see in mainstream? Yeah, I think you really don't understand the issue here. you see, we aren't kids, this isn't our first rodeo and we have been through the whole "saying the right things and telling people what they want to hear" many times and know the result of such BS tactics. That crap may work on the average mainstream MMO gamer today, it won't work on this crowd.
I don't have any stake for or against this project i'm just calling it how i have perceived it and i don't have any wish to offend people that support it. Having said that:
I don't understand how you can invest in a person.
Your telling me if this kickstarter went ahead with brad never being involved then you would pass on it?
That doesn't sound like your investing in the betterment of a game.
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If they just polish up their process and show me their making correct decisions I will invest 1k tomorrow, but until then we will just have to wait.
That is what they are doing and to be honest, I was rather shocked to see how much they have progressed from Nov/Dec. I imagine that by the time they try another KS, it will be very professional, well thought out, and a hot seller. That though as I have mentioned in a previous thread, is also a concern for me. Sure, it will mean a lot of money, a lot of interest, it also means lots of whining, lots of tantrums, "Your game will fail if you don't xyz", but to be honest if there was anyone I think is able to handle those crowds and stick to their guns, it would be Brad.
I don't have any stake for or against this project i'm just calling it how i have perceived it and i don't have any wish to offend people that support it. Having said that:
I don't understand how you can invest in a person.
Your telling me if this kickstarter went ahead with brad never being involved then you would pass on it?
That doesn't sound like your investing in the betterment of a game.
Same way that you buy books from a specific author. You know what to expect in the writing and style. It is what you prefer. I choose to invest in Brad's Vision and nobody can see to Brad's Vision better than Brad.
If they got rid of Brad, they may attempt to achieve Brad's Vision, but the reality is that without Brad, it would be a copy, an imitation and that would end up going in different directions.
You do realize EQ2 was an attempt to continue on the vision of EQ right? That is, the perception of what someone else though Brads Vision was concerning EQ. Now look at Vanguard, which is a continuation of Brad's "Vision" of EQ. Do you see the problem here? You do understand the differences between EQ2 and Vanguard right? Why EQ2 failed in the respect to the "Vision"?
So, me saying I wouldn't bother with the game if they got rid of Brad? Well... if I thought that would work, I would be playing EQ2 right now.
If they just polish up their process and show me their making correct decisions I will invest 1k tomorrow, but until then we will just have to wait.
That is what they are doing and to be honest, I was rather shocked to see how much they have progressed from Nov/Dec. I imagine that by the time they try another KS, it will be very professional, well thought out, and a hot seller. That though as I have mentioned in a previous thread, is also a concern for me. Sure, it will mean a lot of money, a lot of interest, it also means lots of whining, lots of tantrums, "Your game will fail if you don't xyz", but to be honest if there was anyone I think is able to handle those crowds and stick to their guns, it would be Brad.
Agreed and its the only reason I'm banging my drum for this game. Like it or not this genre needs this game to be made and if done right it may help save the genre. Star Citizen and Pantheon are the only two games I see being made that seem to have any soul to them at all.
I encourage everyone who loves the core of what this game could be to actively promote it and if you have concerns about supporting the project write them an email. They have a small team and they need our feedback. If it were a huge studio then all we could do is sit around and complain about it, but this time you actually can make changes. Now im not saying contact them and say Brad needs to be fired that's just not logical, but if you have apprehension about financially supporting them tell them why and what they can do to sway you.
I don't have any stake for or against this project i'm just calling it how i have perceived it and i don't have any wish to offend people that support it. Having said that:
I don't understand how you can invest in a person.
Your telling me if this kickstarter went ahead with brad never being involved then you would pass on it?
That doesn't sound like your investing in the betterment of a game.
Same way that you buy books from a specific author. You know what to expect in the writing and style. It is what you prefer. I choose to invest in Brad's Vision and nobody can see to Brad's Vision better than Brad.
If they got rid of Brad, they may attempt to achieve Brad's Vision, but the reality is that without Brad, it would be a copy, an imitation and that would end up going in different directions.
You do realize EQ2 was an attempt to continue on the vision of EQ right? That is, the perception of what someone else though Brads Vision was concerning EQ. Now look at Vanguard, which is a continuation of Brad's "Vision" of EQ. Do you see the problem here? You do understand the differences between EQ2 and Vanguard right? Why EQ2 failed in the respect to the "Vision"?
So, me saying I wouldn't bother with the game if they got rid of Brad? Well... if I thought that would work, I would be playing EQ2 right now.
This is one of the best descriptions of not only the situation, but game design. What a great example of a spiritual successor and a game using an ip without understanding what made it successful.
Agreed and its the only reason I'm banging my drum for this game. Like it or not this genre needs this game to be made and if done right it may help save the genre. Star Citizen and Pantheon are the only two games I see being made that seem to have any soul to them at all.
I encourage everyone who loves the core of what this game could be to actively promote it and if you have concerns about supporting the project write them an email. They have a small team and they need our feedback. If it were a huge studio then all we could do is sit around and complain about it, but this time you actually can make changes. Now im not saying contact them and say Brad needs to be fired that's just not logical, but if you have apprehension about financially supporting them tell them why and what they can do to sway you.
I think most of the detractors really aren't interested in this game anyway. I have seen this in many games. They come in, complain, demand, and doom speak then leave the place a ghost town soon after release. The hope is that Brad and his team realize this and stay resolved on the "Vision". If they sell out aspects of play to the mainstream, this game will be like all the others. I think they understand this though.
Personally it looked far too old school and there was hardly anything to show, and it lacked all the features I wanted. It also seemed so 90s, the presentation that is. And there was minimal art direction and style, as an artist whom collects and puts a lot of stock into rendered art I wasn't seeing anything to win me over.
So....for me it was poor presentation, which meant 250$ more towards Crowfall cause I love their concept art and stylization.
I love how you invest in a game based off of looks. I guess each to their own and I agree with your assesment of their kick starter campaign. My biggest gripe is that the game needs to be up to modern day standards and I'm super concerned that their building it on the unity engine. I mean for god sakes the engine that brought us angry birds and hearthstone.....
As I said being an artist and someone who frequents galleries both online and offline for purchasing, art direction goes a long way for me, it's why I dropped so much on the collector's edition of Guild Wars 2. They included the artstyle in everything from the UI, to battle damage, to underwater effects in that game. It made it feel lively, vibrant, and gave it so much personality. It's not the single deciding factor, however it sure does lend a lot to me. It's why I love games like Shadow of the Colossus, the visual art style is breathtaking and even the presentation of the world with a heavy layer of mystery on the origins of almost modern structures in this ruined holy land. Not to mention the musical score, but I'm rambling.
The way this Kickstarter was presented was very dated and unprofessional, and what little that was presented was lifeless and dull. It much reminded me of a old clip art office presentation, and that drove me away. Which is sad because I do enjoy the game mechanics envisioned and those they wish to bring back from the grave.
Whereas yes, I have seen their kickstarter well after the fact of their having not achieved it. I also did not know about it at that time. I am sure there are more people that did not at that time as well.
The only aspect that is somewhat disheartening to me, is that Pantheon is to be a zoned world, rather than a non-zoned open world such as Vanguard was. Beyond this for me, I actually do not need any display of the end product, because I already know it will have those qualities that Everquest and Vanguard had. Those qualities I am sure will have other features that have been revised in new ways, to still allow that same depth, yet will not be as ill received as some features would be.
Pantheon needs a better put together kickstarter (when they are ready), in order to appeal to any potential new comers, and in order to appeal to the old EQ-VG crowd that has since become nay-sayers. In that order.
The next kickstarter should be successful when they get to that point.
Yeah some good points are made here. I want to clarify to everyone reading to this thread that I don't think they need to go the kickstarter approach to get funding for this game. In fact I think they simply need to adopt the Star Citizen approach of handing it via their website with a very open development process showing where these funds are going and allowing the community to push the features they want added without changing the core concept.
I also wanted to touch on the point you raised about Zones. I like you was a bit taken back when they said it was going to be a zoned based game. That being said they have stated that the zones are going to be huge and were not running into a situation where you have 3 zones inside a small city. It also made me remember just how fun things like unrest were with trains to zone and using zoning/guards as a de-agro mechanic. I would take a game with Zones any day of the week over a game with Instances.
IMO you can't develop good, in depth games, with this type of half assed funding. You can only go to the well so many times. And what usually ends up happening if the game does go ahead is that timelines are never met. People get impatient with the game and soon it is being passed over in favor of the next "flavor of the month". Also when people working on the game stop seeing the paychecks coming in, they tend to drift off as well. It makes the whole thing a crapshoot of the highest order.
As for Brad, I would rather see him here than not. He has a track record and experience whether you like it or not. He has worked on some influential games, and in this case he is just a member of the team, he is not doing this on his own.
Still I think they are handicapped greatly at the start, and it will be a long time if ever that this game sees the light of day if they choose to go down this path.
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Agreed and its the only reason I'm banging my drum for this game. Like it or not this genre needs this game to be made and if done right it may help save the genre. Star Citizen and Pantheon are the only two games I see being made that seem to have any soul to them at all.
I encourage everyone who loves the core of what this game could be to actively promote it and if you have concerns about supporting the project write them an email. They have a small team and they need our feedback. If it were a huge studio then all we could do is sit around and complain about it, but this time you actually can make changes. Now im not saying contact them and say Brad needs to be fired that's just not logical, but if you have apprehension about financially supporting them tell them why and what they can do to sway you.
I think most of the detractors really aren't interested in this game anyway. I have seen this in many games. They come in, complain, demand, and doom speak then leave the place a ghost town soon after release. The hope is that Brad and his team realize this and stay resolved on the "Vision". If they sell out aspects of play to the mainstream, this game will be like all the others. I think they understand this though.
Yeah I personally believe this game has 2 advantages.
One it doesn't need to be a pop culture success to be a great game with longevity. Any mmo that releases these days will have 2 million subs day 1 without breaking a sweat and having a halfway decent marketing campaign. They are a small company who can create great content and have some nice income with a subscription based model.
Second I think social media and twitch will push this game forward in a way that enchances a small marketing budget. I know once streamers like Kripparian, Towellie, and Kungen get their hands on this game it will quickly rise in popularity.
IMO you can't develop good, in depth games, with this type of half assed funding. You can only go to the well so many times. And what usually ends up happening if the game does go ahead is that timelines are never met. People get impatient with the game and soon it is being passed over in favor of the next "flavor of the month". Also when people working on the game stop seeing the paychecks coming in, they tend to drift off as well. It makes the whole thing a crapshoot of the highest order.
As for Brad, I would rather see him here than not. He has a track record and experience whether you like it or not. He has worked on some influential games, and in this case he is just a member of the team, he is not doing this on his own.
Still I think they are handicapped greatly at the start, and it will be a long time if ever that this game sees the light of day if they choose to go down this path.
They're currently seeking private investors which I think they will aquire, but I still think that crowdfunding is a tool that can be used to positively shape the future of a game. It gives their team extra tools to not only complete it faster, but also add features that improve the quality. One great example would be a robust crafting or Guild hall system. While I don't know how it fits their lore or concept these are just two examples of things that could be added by funding additional team members.
I'd like to point out that though it failed to garner my interest or meet the requirements for my specific funding, I do hope that it succeeds for those whom are interested in this venture. As well as for the folks behind this vision, I'd rather not wish misfortune upon any.
And hopefully in the future they'll be able to present their case with more appeal, and garner my interest as well as that of others.
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Second I think social media and twitch will push this game forward in a way that enchances a small marketing budget. I know once streamers like Kripparian, Towellie, and Kungen get their hands on this game it will quickly rise in popularity.
What the heck makes you think Kripp would give this mess the time of day? The game is supposed to be a sort of EQ/VG spiritual successor and Kripp never played SOE games. Can you please stop gratuitously name-throwing? It's obnoxious.
As I said being an artist and someone who frequents galleries both online and offline for purchasing, art direction goes a long way for me, it's why I dropped so much on the collector's edition of Guild Wars 2. They included the artstyle in everything from the UI, to battle damage, to underwater effects in that game. It made it feel lively, vibrant, and gave it so much personality. It's not the single deciding factor, however it sure does lend a lot to me. It's why I love games like Shadow of the Colossus, the visual art style is breathtaking and even the presentation of the world with a heavy layer of mystery on the origins of almost modern structures in this ruined holy land. Not to mention the musical score, but I'm rambling.
The way this Kickstarter was presented was very dated and unprofessional, and what little that was presented was lifeless and dull. It much reminded me of a old clip art office presentation, and that drove me away. Which is sad because I do enjoy the game mechanics envisioned and those they wish to bring back from the grave.
I'm like you, art design goes a loooong way. If i don't like the art design of a game then it's almost a surety that I won't stick with it.
Or even if I can't tolerate it.
I agree that their kickstarter was lackluster and unprofessional. I think it failed because of that and because of Brad's past.
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Originally posted by MightyUnclean This game sounds great to me, on paper. Why do you think the Kickstarter only raised $400K out of, what, $800K? Was it lack of advertising? Not enough disgruntled old guys like me who want this type of game? Other games like Crowfall are still funding, so I guess it's not that the crowd funding types are burnt out yet...
IMHO it failed for two reasons:
Extreme cynicism about Brad McQuaid, his ability to deliver, his morals, his past and all sorts of negatives.
The amatuer hour presentation of the kickstarter, lack of information, confusion and misinformation.
Originally posted by rodingo Though there is no doubt that there were people who wanted this type of game, I think this shows that there are just not enough.
Total and utter garbage,there are loads that want a real mmoRPG and not the crap we have been offered for 10 years.There are other reasons like McQuaid taking funds and just the lack of trust in him on my part at least because of this.
The KS failed for the obvious reason, it was half-assed.
There was very little: in game footage, lore, concept art or planning. I don't know if they were trying to coast off of Brad's reputation or what but that's a pretty terrible strategy given the Vanguard debacle. Still, his involvement did matter a great deal. I doubt the KS would have even reached 100k without him but it needed a lot more tangible things to hype about.
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It isn't though. See, I think the gossip was "small part" of the problem, but most of it was because they had a very weak and disorganized KS.
If they got rid of Brad, I know I would not buy the thing. Brad has a proven record of content and I know the truth about the gossip. So, getting rid of him would end my interest in the game and I am sure a lot of others would feel the same as I do because without Brad, all we have is yet another MMO company claiming to bring back the old school feeling of the past and how did those work out? So, getting rid of him would be a disaster.
Also, if you think the majority of people who are interested in this game are the tools we see in mainstream? Yeah, I think you really don't understand the issue here. you see, we aren't kids, this isn't our first rodeo and we have been through the whole "saying the right things and telling people what they want to hear" many times and know the result of such BS tactics. That crap may work on the average mainstream MMO gamer today, it won't work on this crowd.
Kickstarter success is about very good presentation of the idea and saying the right things. That require lots of work and communication skills, and first timers are often surpriced by how much efford actually needs to go into a ks campaign. On top of that you need to create alot of attention.
I believe they already stated that they were not properly prepared for this, and that lesson has been learned.
The other thing they failed on is targeting their audience. You can recreate eq and make vets happy but that crowd can never support a full new game. They needed and still need to get out of that eq box, only keep the eq spirit but using all the good mechanics invented since then.. Not all changes are bad per definition. They forgot to say speak to the new players, those who have not played eq but are still tiered of shallow themepark. And last, the Brad hating and lies hasn't helped either, and he should have seen the shitstorm comming and taken appropriate measures.. For example to not put himself as CEO, but instead as visionary and game director, while having more management skilled people do that job... That would have shut up some of the opposers.
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I'm with you 100% that this project needs to be supported, but at this time I haven't invested for specific reasons. I don't throw my money down a bottomless pit without accountability. I have written a letter directly to them in regards to several factors that I feel need to be addressed before I can invest. The main one is money tracking, goal setting, and rewarding investors with more than the ability to test their game. They have stated multiple times that the reason everquest was such a success was the great team of qualified testers they had during their alpha/beta. This marketing scheme of having people pay to work for you is a gimmick used by subpar games to get a cash grab during genre down times.
If they just polish up their process and show me their making correct decisions I will invest 1k tomorrow, but until then we will just have to wait.
Ignorance is bliss for some, but I honestly don't think those that choose to wallow in such ignorance of the issue really are interested in Brad's game in the first place. I spent a while arguing with a person over the this issue a while back and after all the discussion, the conceded the problem with their claims and then said they didn't care anyway because EQ was boring and Vanguard sucked.
See the problem here? Those who are truly interested in seeing a spiritual successor to EQ/Vanguard will be willing to look into the issue a bit more, willing to look at the facts rather than act like cattle to be herded to slaughter. Those who aren't, well... as my example suggests, it is likely they never cared anyway.
I don't have any stake for or against this project i'm just calling it how i have perceived it and i don't have any wish to offend people that support it. Having said that:
I don't understand how you can invest in a person.
Your telling me if this kickstarter went ahead with brad never being involved then you would pass on it?
That doesn't sound like your investing in the betterment of a game.
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That is what they are doing and to be honest, I was rather shocked to see how much they have progressed from Nov/Dec. I imagine that by the time they try another KS, it will be very professional, well thought out, and a hot seller. That though as I have mentioned in a previous thread, is also a concern for me. Sure, it will mean a lot of money, a lot of interest, it also means lots of whining, lots of tantrums, "Your game will fail if you don't xyz", but to be honest if there was anyone I think is able to handle those crowds and stick to their guns, it would be Brad.
Same way that you buy books from a specific author. You know what to expect in the writing and style. It is what you prefer. I choose to invest in Brad's Vision and nobody can see to Brad's Vision better than Brad.
If they got rid of Brad, they may attempt to achieve Brad's Vision, but the reality is that without Brad, it would be a copy, an imitation and that would end up going in different directions.
You do realize EQ2 was an attempt to continue on the vision of EQ right? That is, the perception of what someone else though Brads Vision was concerning EQ. Now look at Vanguard, which is a continuation of Brad's "Vision" of EQ. Do you see the problem here? You do understand the differences between EQ2 and Vanguard right? Why EQ2 failed in the respect to the "Vision"?
So, me saying I wouldn't bother with the game if they got rid of Brad? Well... if I thought that would work, I would be playing EQ2 right now.
Agreed and its the only reason I'm banging my drum for this game. Like it or not this genre needs this game to be made and if done right it may help save the genre. Star Citizen and Pantheon are the only two games I see being made that seem to have any soul to them at all.
I encourage everyone who loves the core of what this game could be to actively promote it and if you have concerns about supporting the project write them an email. They have a small team and they need our feedback. If it were a huge studio then all we could do is sit around and complain about it, but this time you actually can make changes. Now im not saying contact them and say Brad needs to be fired that's just not logical, but if you have apprehension about financially supporting them tell them why and what they can do to sway you.
This is one of the best descriptions of not only the situation, but game design. What a great example of a spiritual successor and a game using an ip without understanding what made it successful.
I think most of the detractors really aren't interested in this game anyway. I have seen this in many games. They come in, complain, demand, and doom speak then leave the place a ghost town soon after release. The hope is that Brad and his team realize this and stay resolved on the "Vision". If they sell out aspects of play to the mainstream, this game will be like all the others. I think they understand this though.
Yeah some good points are made here. I want to clarify to everyone reading to this thread that I don't think they need to go the kickstarter approach to get funding for this game. In fact I think they simply need to adopt the Star Citizen approach of handing it via their website with a very open development process showing where these funds are going and allowing the community to push the features they want added without changing the core concept.
I also wanted to touch on the point you raised about Zones. I like you was a bit taken back when they said it was going to be a zoned based game. That being said they have stated that the zones are going to be huge and were not running into a situation where you have 3 zones inside a small city. It also made me remember just how fun things like unrest were with trains to zone and using zoning/guards as a de-agro mechanic. I would take a game with Zones any day of the week over a game with Instances.
IMO you can't develop good, in depth games, with this type of half assed funding. You can only go to the well so many times. And what usually ends up happening if the game does go ahead is that timelines are never met. People get impatient with the game and soon it is being passed over in favor of the next "flavor of the month". Also when people working on the game stop seeing the paychecks coming in, they tend to drift off as well. It makes the whole thing a crapshoot of the highest order.
As for Brad, I would rather see him here than not. He has a track record and experience whether you like it or not. He has worked on some influential games, and in this case he is just a member of the team, he is not doing this on his own.
Still I think they are handicapped greatly at the start, and it will be a long time if ever that this game sees the light of day if they choose to go down this path.
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Yeah I personally believe this game has 2 advantages.
One it doesn't need to be a pop culture success to be a great game with longevity. Any mmo that releases these days will have 2 million subs day 1 without breaking a sweat and having a halfway decent marketing campaign. They are a small company who can create great content and have some nice income with a subscription based model.
Second I think social media and twitch will push this game forward in a way that enchances a small marketing budget. I know once streamers like Kripparian, Towellie, and Kungen get their hands on this game it will quickly rise in popularity.
The point that fans always make is: Brad has a vision!
By now that cracks me up because I have a fair idea where the 120k went and how he gets his "visions"
They're currently seeking private investors which I think they will aquire, but I still think that crowdfunding is a tool that can be used to positively shape the future of a game. It gives their team extra tools to not only complete it faster, but also add features that improve the quality. One great example would be a robust crafting or Guild hall system. While I don't know how it fits their lore or concept these are just two examples of things that could be added by funding additional team members.
I'd like to point out that though it failed to garner my interest or meet the requirements for my specific funding, I do hope that it succeeds for those whom are interested in this venture. As well as for the folks behind this vision, I'd rather not wish misfortune upon any.
And hopefully in the future they'll be able to present their case with more appeal, and garner my interest as well as that of others.
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What the heck makes you think Kripp would give this mess the time of day? The game is supposed to be a sort of EQ/VG spiritual successor and Kripp never played SOE games. Can you please stop gratuitously name-throwing? It's obnoxious.
I'm like you, art design goes a loooong way. If i don't like the art design of a game then it's almost a surety that I won't stick with it.
Or even if I can't tolerate it.
I agree that their kickstarter was lackluster and unprofessional. I think it failed because of that and because of Brad's past.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Total and utter garbage,there are loads that want a real mmoRPG and not the crap we have been offered for 10 years.There are other reasons like McQuaid taking funds and just the lack of trust in him on my part at least because of this.
The KS failed for the obvious reason, it was half-assed.
There was very little: in game footage, lore, concept art or planning. I don't know if they were trying to coast off of Brad's reputation or what but that's a pretty terrible strategy given the Vanguard debacle. Still, his involvement did matter a great deal. I doubt the KS would have even reached 100k without him but it needed a lot more tangible things to hype about.