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[Column] World of Warcraft: Play to Play for Free

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  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Originally posted by vadio123

    well to blizzard dont make diference at all

    but its solid kick in gold seller company

    Not sure.

    At first it seems to work. Potentially it makes every subscriber a gold seller exposing the existing companies to a lot of competition.

    So you do the sums e.g. :

    • Current: 100 subscribers @ $15 10 of whom also purchase 5,000 gold for $15 say. (Just made up numbers). So $1,500 to Blizzard; $150 to gold seller company (some of which will go to Visa, Paypal, Google etc.)
    • New - assuming all gold purchasers buy tokens - 100 subscribers; 90 pay Blizzard $15, 10 of whom buy a token for $15. These are then bought for  5,000 gold say. $1,500 to Blizzard; $0 to gold seller company; $150 "value" to players

    So all things being equal it does indeed seem to work.

    Then I looked at the price of gold: a few pence for 1,000 gold.

    For the price of a sub people could buy maybe  - edit - using Bladestrom's numbers below about 20,000

    Now I haven't played WoW for some time but .... seriously? Are people buying these sums?

     

    Which leads me to believe that if this idea is going to work then Blizzard are going to have to sell tokens that offer something less than 30 days; maybe as low as 1 day.

    Or are my memories of the game economy totally out?

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    It's about $1 per 1250 gold, so 250k gold will cost you about $200

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • rodingorodingo Member RarePosts: 2,870
    Originally posted by Wighty
    China's economy is going to take a hit on this one!

    HA!

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • ComanComan Member UncommonPosts: 2,178
    Originally posted by Daniel696
    Finaly. The time of subs is ending, this is just holding the player numbers. Free to play for the win.

    Actually this is a "win" for subs. This way they get others to pay for other people there subs. So people with a job, but little time, will pay for the sub for people with a lot of time and no job. At the end this means there will be more people subbed.

  • doodphacedoodphace Member UncommonPosts: 1,858
    Originally posted by JAFA

    "Current Market Value", but you have no real say in how much you charge for your 'Token'?

    That's not "Current Market Value" that's "Whatever  Blizzard think you should get for it" which is something else entirely.

    "Current Market Value" is the point where what sellers are asking meets what buyers are willing to pay.

    I imagine there's going to be an extra "Tax" hidden somewhere in these transactions, at least for the 1st week or two, until people work out how much it is, after which it won't be hidden (but will still be present).

    TL;DR: I call SHENANIGANS.

     
     

    I don't think you could even be more wrong, just to bash Blizzard.

    The tokens are sold on the AH, and sold for whatever the seller wants to sell them for. What price they will get bought for, is another story....that's supply and demand...the tokens will go for exactly that, current market value...Blizzard has absolutly no input or control over the in game auction house prices.

    TL;DR The poster I quoted doesn't know how in game auction houses work, and just wants to bash Blizzard...

     

  • OhhPaigeyOhhPaigey Member RarePosts: 1,517
    Originally posted by kitarad
    I am curious how gold sellers will be affected.

    "This provides a safe and secure way for players to purchase gold without turning to shady 3rd party farmers who could potentially compromise an account."

    1: Going to some gold seller/game time websites are keyloggers, viruses, ect.

    2: You can easily scam somebody, both parties. Somebody has to go first. Last time I bought game time from somebody I logged out for like 1 minute, and felt horrible so I logged in and paid him back lol. BUT, I thought about it.

    3: The code sellers can sometimes get the code you bought removed from your account, usually ends up in a suspension for you, and no gold return for you.

    Yeah, think that's about it. I don't mind it now I'm working, I refuse to buy gold from other people, I'm curious how much people undercut on them, and how much Blizz will list them for, but it really could kill gold sellers if they do it properly.

    When all is said and done, more is always said than done.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Originally posted by kitarad
    I am curious how gold sellers will be affected.

    They will sell for less.

     

    This is just a way for Blizzard to get a portion of the gold selling market.

     

    aaand yes each token purchased will be counted as a 30 day sub....

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726
    Plex has worked out well for Eve, I don't expect this will be much different.  It will certainly take some of the gold out of the economy and make things for most of the player base cheaper.
  • PepeqPepeq Member UncommonPosts: 1,977
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by kitarad
    I am curious how gold sellers will be affected.

    They will sell for less.

     

    This is just a way for Blizzard to get a portion of the gold selling market.

     

    aaand yes each token purchased will be counted as a 30 day sub....

    Only when activated... you can buy a token and never activate it if you so wish.  It's just like game time cards... until it's actually redeemed, Blizzard doesn't count the time as an active subscription.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,628


    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Foomerang It'll be interesting to see this implemented in a ten year old game. I imagine the initial cost will be astronomical.
    in 2012,

    SOE implemented a similar system, Krono,  in a 8 year old mmo - Everquest 2

    http://eq2wire.com/2012/10/29/krono-in-game-currency-going-live-today/

    but they are different games so who knows?

     



    Thanks for the link, Nadia. I have a feeling the initial price may be the current gold cap or at least close to it.
  • GoldenArrowGoldenArrow Member UncommonPosts: 1,186

    Whoa very few non-P2W MMORPGs left on the market.

    FFXI / FFXIV? Oo

  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685

    It's funny how WoW gets a pass for indirectly selling gold, and selling high-level characters directly.

    There would've been outrage 4+  years ago, but now it's accepted, even by the big MMO fan sites.

    FFXIV is the last major MMO to be a pure sub game now, from what i know.  

  • doodphacedoodphace Member UncommonPosts: 1,858
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by kitarad
    I am curious how gold sellers will be affected.

    They will sell for less.

     

    This is just a way for Blizzard to get a portion of the gold selling market.

     

    aaand yes each token purchased will be counted as a 30 day sub....

    They only get counted if they are activated, just like time cards...and why wouldn't they count them? They are in fact, after being activated, active subscriptions...

  • KanethKaneth Member RarePosts: 2,286
    Originally posted by GoldenArrow

    Whoa very few non-P2W MMORPGs left on the market.

    FFXI / FFXIV? Oo

    Seriously....this isn't even REMOTELY pay to win. It's sub time...it doesn't hand you gear, or skills that others can't have, or anything that gives any type of an advantage.

    The phrase P2W is tossed around so casually that it's meaning is apparently lost to most who attempt to use it. 

     

  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,628


    Originally posted by observer
    It's funny how WoW gets a pass for indirectly selling gold, and selling high-level characters directly.There would've been outrage 4+  years ago, but now it's accepted, even by the big MMO fan sites.FFXIV is the last major MMO to be a pure sub game now, from what i know.  
    Ffxiv has a cash shop. Probably the least intrusive cash shop in existence but nevertheless it's there
  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,628


    Originally posted by Kaneth

    Originally posted by GoldenArrow Whoa very few non-P2W MMORPGs left on the market. FFXI / FFXIV? Oo
    Seriously....this isn't even REMOTELY pay to win. It's sub time...it doesn't hand you gear, or skills that others can't have, or anything that gives any type of an advantage.

    The phrase P2W is tossed around so casually that it's meaning is apparently lost to most who attempt to use it. 

     


    Its definitely pay to twink. You can now legally buy gold for cash and since they removed most currencies from the game and use gold instead, you can effectively buy full heirloom gear for real money.
  • doodphacedoodphace Member UncommonPosts: 1,858
    Originally posted by observer

    It's funny how WoW gets a pass for indirectly selling gold, and selling high-level characters directly.

    There would've been outrage 4+  years ago, but now it's accepted, even by the big MMO fan sites.

    FFXIV is the last major MMO to be a pure sub game now, from what i know.  

    Its funny, that not only is WoW not the first to sell both charecters and game time via in game currency, but you seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that FFXIV also has a cash shop.

  • KanethKaneth Member RarePosts: 2,286
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by Kaneth

    Originally posted by GoldenArrow Whoa very few non-P2W MMORPGs left on the market. FFXI / FFXIV? Oo
    Seriously....this isn't even REMOTELY pay to win. It's sub time...it doesn't hand you gear, or skills that others can't have, or anything that gives any type of an advantage.

     

    The phrase P2W is tossed around so casually that it's meaning is apparently lost to most who attempt to use it. 

     


    Its definitely pay to twink. You can now legally buy gold for cash and since they removed most currencies from the game and use gold instead, you can effectively buy full heirloom gear for real money.

     

    Heriloom gear has even been devalued in lower tier pvp as Blizzard has normalized health and general power in each of the pvp brackets. Which is why they made them 10 level brackets again, as opposed to 5 level brackets that existed in MoP. So even a full set of heirloom gear isn't a tremendous boost anymore. Although with how enchants scale now it makes sense to toss nice enchants on heirloom gear to give your character a boost (the effectiveness of that boost is greatly dependent on the level bracket though, higher level=less impact).

    Of course, at the same time, those who twink have been doing so for years. I am a tremendous alt-o-holic, so I had the vast majority of all heirlooms before the new heirloom tab that exists now. Which is saving me a ton of time and cash since those are immediately scaled to go to level 90.

  • VoqarVoqar Member UncommonPosts: 510

    It's a dark day when Bliz abandons quality in favor of more profit when they're already drowning in cash from WoW.

     

    It's so sad when people discuss this, like in this article, as a "cool way to pay for you game sub with in game gold" when the reality is, these systems are all marketed that way, which sounds neato, but the bottom line is that all of these systems allow players to buy in game gold for cash - ie, cheat.

     

    For most of MMORPG buying accounts, buying gold, and otherwise cheating at the game has been against the terms and bannable - because, you know, cheating at games is pretty lame.

     

    But because companies would rather not have to incur the expense of dealing with cheaters, and because there are so many losers out there wanting to cheat at games, and because they can instead easily make easy money by facilitating the cheating themselves, several low life companies have already built this kind of thing into their games.

     

    I surely never expected Blizzard to lower their standards to the bottom of the barrel like this.

     

    If you're too gutless, stupid, pathetic, or whatever to actually PLAY games you buy and would rather "play" your way by cheating and buying gold to ease your way thru, how about instead just not play and do something more your speed like coloring books or starting at a wall drooling?

     

    It's sad that there are so many people who want to cheat at these games that rather than deal with the cheaters, the host companies would rather facilitate the cheating themselves and make a bit of extra profit selling the gold themselves.

     

    It's sad that the so-called gaming press treats this like it's some kind of great feature.  Yeah, the idea of paying for your sub with in-game gold is cool, and if companies just did that and it ended there it would be cool - but they couldn't make any money doing that.

     

    As soon as they flip it into a situation where players pay even more than the usual cost of a sub to buy a token they sell in-game for game currency, it's all just cheating, facilitating cheating, making a nice bit of money for nothing off of cheaters, and it makes the games involved not worth playing for anybody who cares about quality of game.

     

    Do YOU want to play on servers knowing that a lot the players around you are buying their way thru the game with cash?  It's as bad or worse than your average F2P pay to win sleaze.

     

    The overall state of MMORPGs has been very crappy for a while now and news like this just makes it worse.

    Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.

  • doodphacedoodphace Member UncommonPosts: 1,858
    Originally posted by Voqar

    It's a dark day when Bliz abandons quality in favor of more profit when they're already drowning in cash from WoW.

     

    It's so sad when people discuss this, like in this article, as a "cool way to pay for you game sub with in game gold" when the reality is, these systems are all marketed that way, which sounds neato, but the bottom line is that all of these systems allow players to buy in game gold for cash - ie, cheat.

     

    For most of MMORPG buying accounts, buying gold, and otherwise cheating at the game has been against the terms and bannable - because, you know, cheating at games is pretty lame.

     

    But because companies would rather not have to incur the expense of dealing with cheaters, and because there are so many losers out there wanting to cheat at games, and because they can instead easily make easy money by facilitating the cheating themselves, several low life companies have already built this kind of thing into their games.

     

    I surely never expected Blizzard to lower their standards to the bottom of the barrel like this.

     

    If you're too gutless, stupid, pathetic, or whatever to actually PLAY games you buy and would rather "play" your way by cheating and buying gold to ease your way thru, how about instead just not play and do something more your speed like coloring books or starting at a wall drooling?

     

    It's sad that there are so many people who want to cheat at these games that rather than deal with the cheaters, the host companies would rather facilitate the cheating themselves and make a bit of extra profit selling the gold themselves.

     

    It's sad that the so-called gaming press treats this like it's some kind of great feature.  Yeah, the idea of paying for your sub with in-game gold is cool, and if companies just did that and it ended there it would be cool - but they couldn't make any money doing that.

     

    As soon as they flip it into a situation where players pay even more than the usual cost of a sub to buy a token they sell in-game for game currency, it's all just cheating, facilitating cheating, making a nice bit of money for nothing off of cheaters, and it makes the games involved not worth playing for anybody who cares about quality of game.

     

    Do YOU want to play on servers knowing that a lot the players around you are buying their way thru the game with cash?  It's as bad or worse than your average F2P pay to win sleaze.

     

    The overall state of MMORPGs has been very crappy for a while now and news like this just makes it worse.

    Blizz implementing something that has been in EVE for 10 years....queue end of world "Bliz abandons quality in favor of more profit" rants...

  • PAL-18PAL-18 Member UncommonPosts: 844
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Voqar

    It's a dark day when Bliz abandons quality in favor of more profit when they're already drowning in cash from WoW.

     

    It's so sad when people discuss this, like in this article, as a "cool way to pay for you game sub with in game gold" when the reality is, these systems are all marketed that way, which sounds neato, but the bottom line is that all of these systems allow players to buy in game gold for cash - ie, cheat.

     

    For most of MMORPG buying accounts, buying gold, and otherwise cheating at the game has been against the terms and bannable - because, you know, cheating at games is pretty lame.

     

    But because companies would rather not have to incur the expense of dealing with cheaters, and because there are so many losers out there wanting to cheat at games, and because they can instead easily make easy money by facilitating the cheating themselves, several low life companies have already built this kind of thing into their games.

     

    I surely never expected Blizzard to lower their standards to the bottom of the barrel like this.

     

    If you're too gutless, stupid, pathetic, or whatever to actually PLAY games you buy and would rather "play" your way by cheating and buying gold to ease your way thru, how about instead just not play and do something more your speed like coloring books or starting at a wall drooling?

     

    It's sad that there are so many people who want to cheat at these games that rather than deal with the cheaters, the host companies would rather facilitate the cheating themselves and make a bit of extra profit selling the gold themselves.

     

    It's sad that the so-called gaming press treats this like it's some kind of great feature.  Yeah, the idea of paying for your sub with in-game gold is cool, and if companies just did that and it ended there it would be cool - but they couldn't make any money doing that.

     

    As soon as they flip it into a situation where players pay even more than the usual cost of a sub to buy a token they sell in-game for game currency, it's all just cheating, facilitating cheating, making a nice bit of money for nothing off of cheaters, and it makes the games involved not worth playing for anybody who cares about quality of game.

     

    Do YOU want to play on servers knowing that a lot the players around you are buying their way thru the game with cash?  It's as bad or worse than your average F2P pay to win sleaze.

     

    The overall state of MMORPGs has been very crappy for a while now and news like this just makes it worse.

    Blizz implementing something that has been  illegal for 10 years....queue end of world "Bliz abandons quality in favor of more profit" rants...

    fixed

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **

  • doodphacedoodphace Member UncommonPosts: 1,858
    Originally posted by PAL-18
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Voqar

    It's a dark day when Bliz abandons quality in favor of more profit when they're already drowning in cash from WoW.

     

    It's so sad when people discuss this, like in this article, as a "cool way to pay for you game sub with in game gold" when the reality is, these systems are all marketed that way, which sounds neato, but the bottom line is that all of these systems allow players to buy in game gold for cash - ie, cheat.

     

    For most of MMORPG buying accounts, buying gold, and otherwise cheating at the game has been against the terms and bannable - because, you know, cheating at games is pretty lame.

     

    But because companies would rather not have to incur the expense of dealing with cheaters, and because there are so many losers out there wanting to cheat at games, and because they can instead easily make easy money by facilitating the cheating themselves, several low life companies have already built this kind of thing into their games.

     

    I surely never expected Blizzard to lower their standards to the bottom of the barrel like this.

     

    If you're too gutless, stupid, pathetic, or whatever to actually PLAY games you buy and would rather "play" your way by cheating and buying gold to ease your way thru, how about instead just not play and do something more your speed like coloring books or starting at a wall drooling?

     

    It's sad that there are so many people who want to cheat at these games that rather than deal with the cheaters, the host companies would rather facilitate the cheating themselves and make a bit of extra profit selling the gold themselves.

     

    It's sad that the so-called gaming press treats this like it's some kind of great feature.  Yeah, the idea of paying for your sub with in-game gold is cool, and if companies just did that and it ended there it would be cool - but they couldn't make any money doing that.

     

    As soon as they flip it into a situation where players pay even more than the usual cost of a sub to buy a token they sell in-game for game currency, it's all just cheating, facilitating cheating, making a nice bit of money for nothing off of cheaters, and it makes the games involved not worth playing for anybody who cares about quality of game.

     

    Do YOU want to play on servers knowing that a lot the players around you are buying their way thru the game with cash?  It's as bad or worse than your average F2P pay to win sleaze.

     

    The overall state of MMORPGs has been very crappy for a while now and news like this just makes it worse.

    Blizz implementing something that has been  illegal for 10 years....queue end of world "Bliz abandons quality in favor of more profit" rants...

    fixed

    I see what you did there, attempt to hide that fact that the sandbox of all sandboxes has been doing this for 10 years, and that somehow Blizz is special in its "greed"... ;)

  • thinktank001thinktank001 Member UncommonPosts: 2,144
    Originally posted by doodphace

    I see what you did there, attempt to hide that fact that the sandbox of all sandboxes has been doing this for 10 years, and that somehow Blizz is special in its "greed"... ;)

     

    I don't know enough about WOW to say if this is a bad or a good thing, but I thought it  was funny that you chose a game on the opposite side of the MMORPG spectrum as an example.     

     

     

  • doodphacedoodphace Member UncommonPosts: 1,858
    Originally posted by thinktank001
    Originally posted by doodphace

    I see what you did there, attempt to hide that fact that the sandbox of all sandboxes has been doing this for 10 years, and that somehow Blizz is special in its "greed"... ;)

     

    I don't know enough about WOW to say if this is a bad or a good thing, but I thought it  was funny that you chose a game on the opposite side of the MMORPG spectrum as an example.     

     

     

    ...I chose EVE, because EVE was the first to do it....Who cares if EVE and WoW are at the opposite ends of the MMORPG spectrum, WoW is only now implementing something that EVE has been doing for 10+ years, yet Blizz is now all of a sudden "sacraficing quality for profit"? How is that funny? You know what I find funny? Some of the same people who are now all of a sudden offended by this, have been giving the holy sandbox of all sandboxes, EVE, a free pass for 10+ years for doing the same thing. Heck, one can easily argue that in game currency in EVE is VASTLY more important in EVE than WoW when it comes to personal in game power, thus EVE is "more wrong".

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    This will kill off countless other MMOs which is good.  Then that will allow another publisher to come in design a good game make it a sub based game while not spending hundreds of Millions of Dollars and be ok with 500K to 1 Million subs and be successful.  
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