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ArtificeVenatus
Member UncommonPosts: 1,236
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ArtificeVenatus
Member UncommonPosts: 1,236
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So they make adventures like the chronicler systems SWG had, or the Foundary system STO has etc?
*edit for name of STO system
There's been a few attempts across multiple games to implement such a feature. Some worked better than others.
The problem is that the role of the GM is to essentially dictate content. Which is basically what the developer's do currently. Now you can have player generated content (i.e. the foundary), but such systems tend to get easily exploited amongst most MMOs.
The result being that it's hard to allow total freedom like you'd enjoy being the GM of a traditional tabletop. If you exploit to much as a tabletop GM you may get a bad campaign that you'll have to start over, but it's still a temporary problem. In an MMO, it can ruin the entire game, and there are no do-overs.
Having GMs could work, but it tends to work better with temporary content & only a few players. Having a persistant world shared by thousands of people means that you can't really have multiple people dictating how that world gets shaped in it's entirety. You either need to fragment the world severely (instanced GM quests, for example), or you need to severely limit the powers one has as a GM.
There are quite a few ways it has been tried. UO built it around the permissions. We were called Seers. We could spawn mobs, create content, play roleplayed characters, lead quests, provide for weddings and parties, etc.
Other games have approached it from the other side, making the tools universally available
CoH Mission Architect
EQ2 Dungeon Maker System
NWO Foundry
Creating a class would be interesting if there was a decent leveling system for it, however you then come across the question of progression through quantity or quality, the former historically/statistically of low quality and the latter very difficult to quantify. Without some progression system or actual use for a class of some sort, it seems such a construct would be unnecessary when you could let players just DM. I say "DM" because the GM is an existing role in MMOs, far removed from that of a DM.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I'd add the ability of players to assign loot can become an issue itself.
And in some cases like in STO people used the system to make multi mob fast spawn grind for xp and loot missions with no story at all. Kinda sad but predictable I suppose.
Sounds a bit like a tour guide who enriches the experience for the clueless masses
I foresee a lot of "Hey! Stop running ahead. Get back here and listen!."
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Yah, if you can't create anything and you are just giving advice and using chat I really don't see the point of trying to make it a class.
At it's core a GM, DM, Administrator, Storyteller, whatever games title you want to use creates the setting, situation and npcs (or at the vary least interprets, narrates, and modifies a module to suit the parties needs).
As much as I would like to see that it really just doesn't seem likely.
So the dungeon master played all the mobs and ran all the events in the tabletop. Now the computer runs those very same things making it the dungeon master. I don't know of a tabletop game where the dungeon master actually played a character class only available to himself. Yes sometimes he would run a companion that needed to be saved or helped with combat or was the hired mage in the background. Today's games have done this same thing with instanced dungeons and world events. What you are asking for just makes no sense. Another problem is when an event is run then everyone on the game rushes to it. How would you roleplay such an event with 50 characters all trying to get their pie? The best way is the current systems that Rift and GW2 have adopted and even better would possibly be a gm who actually controls the enemy boss. I believe regnum online does the gm controlling enemy bosses but I don't remember. MUDS had events where the GM would control the enemy boss and roleplay their terror on the land.
You are wrong about muds they are in every way the same as the mmorpg's of today's world. They were also in every way the same thing as the tabletop games. The only difference was people aren't all in the same room they are actually spread across the world. Now you have your own personal dungeon master who follows you around showing you the world where as before 6 people had to share 1 dungeon master.
CoH MA was the first of the mmorpgs to come to mind.
How about muds with gods, immortals, wizards? By that I mean players who were allowed to add content because they were seen as high value by the mud creator.
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https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
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A GM as a character class could have the most eloquent dialog prepared and deliver it perfectly, but without the ability to make something manifest in the game, it wouldn't have any meaning.
GM: And at the precise time of the royal couple being pronounced man and wife, a hoard of rabid gnolls attacked...
Player 1: I don't see any gnolls.
Player 2: Who planned the royal wedding, anyway? There's no festive decorations, and the bride's dress appears to be her everyday smock. Wasn't she known as The Blacksmith Queen?
Player 4: And why aren't the royal couple in the same room?
GM: The gnoll's just knocked the bishop down, and are running towards the Queen's Chamber...
Player 2: Where's the king? On his throne? Why isn't he fighting the gnolls?
Player 1: What happened to Player 3?
Player 2: Last I saw her, she was going to check out the royal reception. I think she expected some food or drink or something.
GM: The gnolls have captured the queen, and are fleeing through the city! If we can get to the stables, we can catch them on horseback.
Player 4: Didn't the royal couple throw coins to the crowd during the wedding procession? I'm sure I've read that in a couple of books.
Player 2: Hey, Player 1, at least now, you're not supposed to see in gnolls in here.
Player 1: Maybe Player 3 is just trying to find the best place to pick up coins when they march. Let's find her before she gets all the coins.
Ultimately, an MMORPG has to tell it's own story. One critical part of that storytelling is the ability to graphically present the elements to the player, and allows them to interact with these elements. Any player who has the ability to perform these actions in the live game also has the ability to cause grief to other players. That is always a recipe for disaster. And a very busy customer support queue.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
the problem with many mmorpg's is the lack of random events and counter measure's of random actions. A Game master in a table top world would see the situation, then add what he felt made the journey or fight fun and challenging. All that would be left to imagination, of course kept within a certain realm of possibilities and rule sets. By the random actions of adventures doing something that wasn't planned for means a GM needs to counter that random action with another random event that sets them toward the path he had already set.
lets say a group is walking down a hall way. in a tabletop a rouge may wish to climb out a window scale the wall to the floor above, lowering a rope for his companions, with a successful role they all just skipped a lot, a GM would probably then say "oh the floor above was a barracks room full of undead soldiers." Then perhaps a miss fired spell starts a chain reaction and breaks the floor apart sending them back down to the original level.
MMO's are set paths with no randomness, it happens the same every time. You cant act out what you would really want to do. it would take a large amount of programming to have a lot different actions and results of those actions.
Which brings up a bit of an elephant in the room... This thread seems more about a small-group multiplayer online RPG. This probably belongs in a different forum here.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
We are reading. A live DM or player created campaigns isn't anything new. It simply isn't clear why this needs to be a class, as it seems an unnecessary step in the process of providing the functionality you are suggesting.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
OP, I am going to assume by your posts that you believe yourself to be not only clear, but eloquent in your suggestion. Let me take a moment and assure you, this is not the case.
Because what you suggest has a certain level of obsurdity, readers are taking your suggestion more literalally as it actually makes more sense (I.e. DM from Neverwinter Nights or new upcoming Sword Coast Legends).
Perhaps if you provided an example or two of how this "new class" might function, you would deliver the clarity you already believe you have.
For my part, I will paint a picture of a role which I would associate with blending such a class into an MMORPG.
If you define roles such as tank,healer, DPS, crowd control, and support then I would put this class into a support category. For my example I could go with a "seer" or "diplomat". Different directions on the same idea for core game play mechanics.
The Diplomat would be a class with skills focused on non combat gameplay and provide other players with lore, item, location info, or access to locations ( such as a Library which contained a map to a treasure) they might not otherwise have access to. Perhaps no other classes can be literate and actually read info from books in game except this class, or understand enchantments on items, etc. By being a part of the group or guild perhaps they can unlock the potential in that warriors magic sword they found by unlocking its history..perhaps help that Rogue get access to the museum where that large ruby he wants to steal is kept...
I could continue on to explain that though the class excels at non combat play, it doesn't mean that they cannot fight at all (SWG entertainers for example) and I could call this class a "Seer" and explain how they get their knowledge or access to info through a mystical means, but I think you get the point.
From what I have read I would define it as a support role that reveals lore, and provides access to knowledge or paths of gameplay that would not otherwise be accessabe to the group (not that a given task or quest could not be completed differently without the presence of such a class)
That would be how I would see a game master role intergrated. This would actually provide someone who likes DM play a way to serve a similar role and enhance the experience of others and hopefully enjoy it in the process.
I prefer call it new tools instead of new class.
I don't see the point allow player being GM , player don't have time and give them more tool to mess with the game wasn't wise chose.
But i do expect there are more game allow player to be dungeon maker or dungeon master .
As for how to make game master work in MMORPG , it depend on the game structure and tools that allow the GM change the game contents.
A MMORPG possible have 3 type of contents ,
normal contents (quests , monsters ect)
player make contents
and Live events
The GM's true job is run "Live event" . Depend on tools one GM team can work on hundred servers as same time.
I'll try to work with you a bit, so... sorry, if there's some things I've missed:)
If I understand you correctly, you want it to be a class, because you like proper class differentiation. Likewise, you are looking for input on making it actually work as a full class.
I'm not capable of refuting pretty much anything Lokto said, but regardless, I don't see any actual reason it wouldn't work. Quite a bit of work though. First of, you'd need to think of mechanics for its powers to be relevant, balanced and well fitted to the flow of the game even in combat. My suggestions would be to