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300 euro or under parts dilemma

13lake13lake Member UncommonPosts: 718

Here's a semi-hypothetical dilemma based on the suggestion i was giving to a build for a friend's friend.

 

The max amount of money is 300 euro = $342, the wiggle room is almost non-existent under 10 euro, so lets use $350 as max.

The hdd, the os and the optical drive and the case are not counted, and there is also a cheap no-name chinese power supply in play.

The Dilemma is Intel i3 + discrete GPU versus an amd APU solution.

 

Local prices are at play, however i think a  build made on us prices should also be made for possibly a comparison, but not necessary.

 

i3-4130 is out of stock, chepeast i3-4160 is 118 euros, it is possible to find a cheapest H81 motherboard for ~42 euros mostly asrock models with a runaway  Gigabyte GA-H81M-S1. Cheapest RAM is 2x4GB Kingston HyperX for 72 euros, however there is price hike under way, so the price could have elevated over night as much as 85 eur. Cheapest single stick of 4GB is the same kingston for 38 eur, pending increase. Cheapest power supply that's not gonna burn through everything is a LC POWER LC420H-12 V2.31  for 24 eur

that's 220 euros without a gpu and 1x4GB ram, and amd 250x costs 90 euros.

I dubbed it Gdemami's

(it also has a secret powerup, in if he keeps the already a couple of years in use no-name $5 power supply he can fit a 250x in there and have it go for 306 eur)

 

the other build is amd apu 7850k at 145 euros (7800k is also 145 euros at every shop atm), Gigabyte GA-F2A68HM-S1 for 48 euros, 2x4GB Kingston predator or hyper x or beast at  2400Mhz for 85 euro with price ongoing in 2/3 of the shops for 90-100 euros, and the LC420H=12 V2.31 for the same 24 eur.

 

That's 302 euros total, and i dubbed it: U cant pay me to run that PSU :)

 

2x4GB is 1866 Mhz ram is 78 euros, and 7700k apu is 117 euros which gives u around 58 euro more for a different power supply either SUPER FLOWER SF-650P-14P Black Edition, SUPER FLOWER SF-550P14HE, THERMALTAKE SPS-530M or SUPER FLOWER SF-350P14XE (HX).

 

There's similar types of 400/450/500/550w for less , i just listed the best for 58 eur.

 

I'm not joking here there's a couple of more possibilities in play he can possibly get, but these 2 are main ones atm, and he hasn't bought anything yet, and it is extremely urgent so he cant wait for the stupid 7800k price to normalize and similar.

 

I'll give out the links for the shop search engines and shops themselves if anyone wants, but u need to keep in mind that any prices lower than what i've written here are not regular, because even if they list it on their website, once i called them they didn't have the parts at all, or didn't have them for the prices listen on the websites but for more.

 

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Comments

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,679

    You're pricing things in Euros, but linking things that are priced in pounds.  If the current power supply is junk, it needs to be replaced, regardless of what else you get.

    If you don't have enough of a budget to get a discrete card, then you want the AMD APU because Intel graphics are not competitive at all.  And if you do have enough for a discrete card, I'd sooner get an AMD FX-6300 than a Core i3 for about the same price.

  • 13lake13lake Member UncommonPosts: 718

    I apologize i just wanted to link to the manufacturers websites, but for a few pieces of hardware i couldn't find the exact link so i linked the closest thing i could find just so it would easier for people to see the pc parts i was mentioning

     

    These are the search engines i used to find the parts :

    http://itsvet.com/komponente

    http://pcberza.rs/komponente/

     

    They list 99% of the shops in the capital city of my country.

     

    for instance this how it shows up for 7800k and 7850k:

    http://itsvet.com/proizvod/amd-a10-7800-3.5ghz-4mb-/comp_comp_cpu/47/636

    http://pcberza.rs/komponente/procesori-socket-fm2-amd-a10-a10-7800/2028/

    http://itsvet.com/proizvod/amd-a10-7850k-3.7ghz-4mb-fm2+/comp_comp_cpu/47/597

    http://pcberza.rs/komponente/procesori-socket-fm2-amd-a10-a10-7850k/1940/

     

    The pcberza.rs website is excellent because it finds better prices sometimes and  links directly to shops if u click on the weird button to the left of the text for the name of the hardware part, but itsvet.com has more shops and updates faster.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,679

    Chrome will sometimes recognize the language and translate it, but no such luck for Serbian or whatever those sites are in.  The Super Flower Golden Green is likely to be your best bet, as it's a nice power supply.  The 350 W version has a PCI-E power connector, so it can handle discrete cards up to 150 W.

    I'd go with the AMD rig and integrated graphics for now.  You can add a discrete card later if you have the money to upgrade later.

  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    You're pricing things in Euros, but linking things that are priced in pounds.  If the current power supply is junk, it needs to be replaced, regardless of what else you get.

    If you don't have enough of a budget to get a discrete card, then you want the AMD APU because Intel graphics are not competitive at all.  And if you do have enough for a discrete card, I'd sooner get an AMD FX-6300 than a Core i3 for about the same price.

    All of this ^

    Its very difficult to build a discrete gpu setup with a $350 budget, its possible but generally just not one worth building.

    Does he NEED to have it RIGHT NOW.  Or can he hold off for a few months until he can scrape up another 150 bucks or so?

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • 13lake13lake Member UncommonPosts: 718
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Chrome will sometimes recognize the language and translate it, but no such luck for Serbian or whatever those sites are in.  The Super Flower Golden Green is likely to be your best bet, as it's a nice power supply.  The 350 W version has a PCI-E power connector, so it can handle discrete cards up to 150 W.

    I'd go with the AMD rig and integrated graphics for now.  You can add a discrete card later if you have the money to upgrade later.

    U can try and selecting croatian, or bosnian, both are so similar it will work no problem.

     

    Yeah i always get scared seeing only 350w, but that little power supply sure is something, oh you also mentioned in previous post fx-6300 option, which i completely forgot was a possibility, i'll have to play around with prices and see if something fits(fx-6300 doesn't compute in my brain without overclocking, and for this price range proper overclocking is out of the question).

     

    Oh and also Quizzical what do you think about that power supply: LC-420H http://www.lc-power.de/index.php%3Fid%3D183%26L%3D1

    what are the most expensive components you would hook up on it, if any ?

     

    @Hrimnir

     

    Yes i've asked that so many times, they got angry a bit :P, he supposedly needs some work done really fast, and something died in his old wreckage of a pc, so it's now, now, now and also i'm tired of trying to explain money saving to people over and over again.

     

    Even waiting for a few days would let the A10-7800k price stabilize and enable him to get both a decent power supply and much better integrated gpu, :(

  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415
    Originally posted by 13lake 

    @Hrimnir

     

    Yes i've asked that so many times, they got angry a bit :P, he supposedly needs some work done really fast, and something died in his old wreckage of a pc, so it's now, now, now and also i'm tired of trying to explain money saving to people from around here, ...

     

    Even waiting for a few days would let the A10-7800k price stabilize and enable him to get both a decent power supply and much better integrated gpu, :(

    Well, us red blooded freedom lovers over here in 'mericuh have a saying:  You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make em drink it.

    Translation.  You've done your part, its up to them not to be a moron.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • 13lake13lake Member UncommonPosts: 718
    Originally posted by Hrimnir
    Originally posted by 13lake 

    @Hrimnir

     

    Yes i've asked that so many times, they got angry a bit :P, he supposedly needs some work done really fast, and something died in his old wreckage of a pc, so it's now, now, now and also i'm tired of trying to explain money saving to people from around here, ...

     

    Even waiting for a few days would let the A10-7800k price stabilize and enable him to get both a decent power supply and much better integrated gpu, :(

    Well, us red blooded freedom lovers over here in 'mericuh have a saying:  You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make em drink it.

    Translation.  You've done your part, its up to them not to be a moron.

    Amen to that, i just feel like a mirage in the desert at this point, it's like every second horse is dead from dehydration, ...

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130

    I would suggest a PS4 if he wants to game, it just make more sense to me at that price range.

    Those super cheap gaming PC, are not very good.

  • 13lake13lake Member UncommonPosts: 718

    PS4 is more expensive than 300 eur, and he needs to do more than gaming anyway.

     

    Oh and i did some research about that LC power LC420H-12, turns out it's an ancient half-bridge Huntkey design with 15A on 12V, that thing can only barely handle 120w combined on cpu and gpu, even the laser and the motor of a optical drive might tip it over, ... every freaking andyson is better than it.

  • syntax42syntax42 Member UncommonPosts: 1,378

    A $350 computer isn't going to be a gaming machine.  It isn't even worth trying at that price point.  Just build a cheap system to take care of web browsing, work, and/or video watching.  

    The AMD APU would still be the processor of choice so you have a cheaper overall system with better performance to price than the Intel alternative.  It might achieve decent performance in some games, but the most demanding games wouldn't perform at playable framerates.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,321


    Originally posted by syntax42A $350 computer isn't going to be a gaming machine.  It isn't even worth trying at that price point.  Just build a cheap system to take care of web browsing, work, and/or video watching.  The AMD APU would still be the processor of choice so you have a cheaper overall system with better performance to price than the Intel alternative.  It might achieve decent performance in some games, but the most demanding games wouldn't perform at playable framerates.

    APU is a terrible choice.


    For the same money, you can get superior performance build with discrete GPU.

    APU is made for HTPC or some small factor builds and that is where it makes sense, using it in desktop is midly said stupid.


    G3258 + H81 + R250x(260) is a no brainer here, best value for money.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,321

    MSI H81M-P33
    http://pcberza.rs/detaljnije/uspon/34-16479/

    Pentium G3258
    http://pcberza.rs/detaljnije/uspon/34-23017/

    Chieftec CTG-450-80P 450W
    http://pcberza.rs/detaljnije/uspon/34-4360/

    Kingston HyperX 1x4GB
    http://pcberza.rs/detaljnije/nova-computers/86-4986/


    Asus R7 260x 2GB
    http://pcberza.rs/detaljnije/contrel/25-2197/


    36,392 DIN = 296 EUR

    EDIT: Those currency conversions...fixed the build to reflect the budget correctly.

    Swapped PSU.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,321

    If you are not afraid of those cheap PSU, seeing you intended to use some anyway, and if you sacrify some GPU power:


    MSI H81-P33
    http://pcberza.rs/detaljnije/uspon/34-16479/

    i3-4160
    http://pcberza.rs/detaljnije/contrel/25-2328/

    Chieftec 450W
    http://pcberza.rs/detaljnije/duokom/131-6115/

    Kington HyperX 1x4GB
    http://pcberza.rs/detaljnije/nova-computers/86-4986/

    Asus R7 250x 1GB
    http://www.contrelshop.co.rs/index.php?route=product/product&path=95_100&product_id=3170

    38500 DIN = 313 EUR


    or AMD:


    Gigabyte GA-78LMT-S2
    http://pcberza.rs/detaljnije/hellas-computers/62-18793/

    AMD FX-6300
    http://pcberza.rs/detaljnije/uspon/34-20067/

    Chieftec 450W
    http://pcberza.rs/detaljnije/duokom/131-6115/

    Kingston HyperX 1x4GB
    http://pcberza.rs/detaljnije/nova-computers/86-4986/

    Asus R7 250x 1GB
    http://www.contrelshop.co.rs/index.php?route=product/product&path=95_100&product_id=3170

    37225 DIN = 303 EUR

    I would probably consider swapping FX-6300 for FX-4300 and those few EUR thrown towards better PSU.


    That G3258 comboed with 260x will provide better gaming performance tho and you still have somewhat better PSU.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,146


    Originally posted by 13lake
    PS4 is more expensive than 300 eur, and he needs to do more than gaming anyway. Oh and i did some research about that LC power LC420H-12, turns out it's an ancient half-bridge Huntkey design with 15A on 12V, that thing can only barely handle 120w combined on cpu and gpu, even the laser and the motor of a optical drive might tip it over, ... every freaking andyson is better than it.

    I agree, the budget is just too tight to be realistic.

    You could buy a cheap pre-made (they sell for as low as $300 in the States, I don't know about overseas), but you are very much not getting anything worth your while there, and I would say your are just throwing your money out the window, particularly if you are expecting the machine to game with any capability.

    As far as the builds shown by some here - yeah. Caveat Emptor - it's your friends money, but I wouldn't be caught recommending crap to anyone, particularly a friend. That being said, not everyone has the luxury of being able to afford to be particular, and you gotta make due with what you got.

    You may be well served with used components - I usually don't recommend it because it's really easy to get ripped off and it's anything other than a consistent or steady market - but at this budget, I don't know that you have much choice if you want to remain above the "Utter crap" level of computer.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,321


    Originally posted by Ridelynn

    I agree, the budget is just too tight to be realistic.You could buy a cheap pre-made (they sell for as low as $300 in the States, I don't know about overseas), but you are very much not getting anything worth your while there, and I would say your are just throwing your money out the window, particularly if you are expecting the machine to game with any capability.As far as the builds shown by some here - yeah. Caveat Emptor - it's your friends money, but I wouldn't be caught recommending crap to anyone, particularly a friend. That being said, not everyone has the luxury of being able to afford to be particular, and you gotta make due with what you got.You may be well served with used components - I usually don't recommend it because it's really easy to get ripped off and it's anything other than a consistent or steady market - but at this budget, I don't know that you have much choice if you want to remain above the "Utter crap" level of computer.

    You might not be able to run any game at maxed out settings at 1080p but R260x still provides okey performance on 1080p even today.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IBx9xOXmV0

    The user has more videos with 260x.

    No need to sit on high horse...

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,146

    You need more than just a video card to make a computer work.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,321


    Originally posted by RidelynnYou need more than just a video card to make a computer work.

    Check his spec, G3258 or fx-4300 matches with his old i3 performance wise - all achievable within 310 EUR budget builds linked above.

  • 13lake13lake Member UncommonPosts: 718

    G3258 is not gonna work, they're not gonna go lower than an i3, it's a struggle for the PSU already. I missed that chieftec PSU, that's a very good find Gdemami, it's almost certainly an andyson model so even if it burns it won't take all the components with it.

     

    Can only wait now, price hikes are ongoing, it's all up to the specific shops now ( uspon shop is a terrible shop, they won't have 80% of what they list on the website, duocom, nova, contrel, are ok)

    It's whatever pops up the cheapest, there's a second hand unused fx-4300 for 60 euros in play maybe, and a used asus R9 270, and also a i5-4430 for 140 euros, and a A10-7800 for 110 eur.

     

    It's also a problem if he has pure cash ready or if some deferred payment plans are in play, in which case used parts or resold parts might be out of the question, as well as buying 1 part per shop.

     

    oh and Ridelynn, this is what premade looks like, this is what they were checking out before calling me : 

    http://www.winwin.rs/racunari-i-komponente/desktop-racunari/desktop-racunari-bez-os/racunar-altos-spider-intel-celeron-quad-core-4gb-1000gb-r7-240-dvd-1191024.html

    An elusive Intel Celeron® Quad Core, and a r7 240 with DDR3 video ram, for 297 euros and a $1 power supply

    The top price is one in play because that's the one u get with the zero interest delayed payment plan, ...

    I tracked down the elusive cpu : http://ark.intel.com/products/78867/Intel-Celeron-Processor-J1900-2M-Cache-up-to-2_42-GHz

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,321


    Originally posted by 13lake

    G3258 is not gonna work, they're not gonna go lower than an i3, it's a struggle for the PSU already. I missed that chieftec PSU, that's a very good find Gdemami, it's almost certainly an andyson model so even if it burns it won't take all the components with it.

    That's bad. The money spent on 260x would give them more fram rates than money spent on i3.

    However, I am just tinkering around with itsvet.com, despite it's being just awful to work with, I was able to find some better deals on Gigabyte GA-78LMT-S2P:
    http://itsvet.com/proizvod/gigabyte-ga-78lmt-s2p-(rev.-5.0)/comp_comp_mboard/16/2331

    So you might be actually able to squeeze in that FX-6300.


    You will be still left with 250x only tho...

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,321


    Originally posted by 13lake

    http://www.winwin.rs/racunari-i-komponente/desktop-racunari/desktop-racunari-bez-os/racunar-altos-spider-intel-celeron-quad-core-4gb-1000gb-r7-240-dvd-1191024.htmlAn elusive Intel Celeron® Quad Core, and a r7 240 with DDR3 video ram, for 297 euros and a $1 power supplyThe top price is one in play because that's the one u get with the zero interest delayed payment plan, ...I tracked down the elusive cpu : http://ark.intel.com/products/78867/Intel-Celeron-Processor-J1900-2M-Cache-up-to-2_42-GHz

    You put Atoms into a phone, not a gaming rig...it is severly lacking cache and clocks at 2 GHz. The performance is no way near to desktop.

    Even worse idea than Kaveri APU.

  • 13lake13lake Member UncommonPosts: 718
    At least he's got a free OS licence from his university, and is reusing the hdd , optical drive and the case, otherwise this would be beyond ridiculous, ...
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,321

    Using retailers you marked as reliable:


    FX-4300
    http://www.duocom.rs/sr/proizvod/amd-fx-4300-3-8-ghz/37147

    ASUS M5A78L-M/USB3
    http://www.duocom.rs/sr/proizvod/asus-m5a78l-m-usb3/39416

    Chieftec GPA-450S8
    http://www.duocom.rs/sr/proizvod/chieftec-gpa-450s8-450w-bulk/36112

    Kingtson 1x4GB
    .htm]http://www.nova.co.rs/artikli/2336/4gb-hyperx%C2%AE-fury-white-[hx316c10fw-4].htm

    Asus R7 260
    http://www.duocom.rs/sr/proizvod/msi-r7-260-1gd5-oc/39350


    36,920 DIN = 300 EUR


    Neither of retailers have FX-6300 in their portfolio and MB selection is also poor, you could save some money if you look elsewhere. PSU is still a bit scary...

  • 13lake13lake Member UncommonPosts: 718

    Found who made that chieftec gpa-450 and it's not andyson, it's CWT(Channel Well Technologies), which means less protection  bigger chance of the PSU pulling something else with it, but better build quality overall(especially higher quality capacitors).

     

    However shitty in other areas Andyson may be, their protection is superb.

     

    The other one Cooler Master B500 is also made by CWT, the only difference to the chieftec is it's slightly stronger and 80+ silver certified, the build components are probably 95% the same.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,679
    Originally posted by 13lake

    oh and Ridelynn, this is what premade looks like, this is what they were checking out before calling me : 

    http://www.winwin.rs/racunari-i-komponente/desktop-racunari/desktop-racunari-bez-os/racunar-altos-spider-intel-celeron-quad-core-4gb-1000gb-r7-240-dvd-1191024.html

    An elusive Intel Celeron® Quad Core, and a r7 240 with DDR3 video ram, for 297 euros and a $1 power supply

     

    Why does that even exist?  That's a huge downgrade from the Kaveri-based system in every way you can think of.  Atom cores are much slower than Steamroller cores on a per clock cycle basis, in addition to being clocked much lower, so you don't even get half of the CPU performance.  The GPU is much slower, too:  five GCN CUs rather than eight.  And the GPU and CPU will have a hard time communicating, as it's limited to a PCI Express 2.0 x4 slot.  And that's even before you consider that everything else in the rig is probably cheap junk all around.

  • 13lake13lake Member UncommonPosts: 718

    Plenty of competition, there's no monopoly(that i know off), there's at least 3 distinct importers/big retailers i know off plenty of capitalism to go around and that still happens.

    The only thing to explain it is that still 90% of the population knows so little of computers and their parts that they can easily get tricked by this over, and over again.

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