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A GPU issue?

TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321

Lately, every game...and I mean every game...is getting 20-30 FPS. Even Morrowind, an ancient game, is getting only 30-40 FPS. World of Warcraft is getting 20-30 FPS and that MMO should be easy as eating pie as a fat kid to run. Skyrim is also getting 20-25 FPS. Can't play DayZ too low FPS...every game is getting very low FPS. Even mount and blade is getting 20-30 FPS and drops to 15 FPS.

 

Before I go into my PC specs...

 

I ran a CPU stress test, and that did fine

Ran ram tests and that is fine

Hard drive is fine

Power was good, so power supply is fine on all the tests

Finally did a GPU stress test, and it crashed when it was being stressed. Shaders crashed, and like it does for every game I play...when its under  heavy load (like Skyrim or DayZ) my monitor will go black and display drivers crash. But no matter what version drivers I get, this happens. And GPU crashed during the stress test.

 

Before I go out to buy a new GPU...does that sound like a GPU issue? Since it crashed under the stress test? Or could other things cause that? Power was good like I said, and CPU was fine under stress.

 

Geforce GTX 660 2GB (factory superclocked)

i5 660 3.3 GHz CPU

Windows 7 64bit

8 gig DDR 3 ram

 

If I do need to replace my GPU, I'm going to get a regular non-overclocked one. They last a lot longer. I bought my 660 in december 2013...so that is a pretty short lifespan.

My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



«13

Comments

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321

    The problem with the GPU, besides it crashing. Was something about the shaders not working properly. I looked at Nvidia and tried doing what they said, getting different drivers. But, I've (properly) uninstalled my graphics drivers, and tried different versions...and its always the same. Bad FPS in every single game, even Morrowind the oldest game I have.

     

    (edit:

     

    I never get artifacts in any games. Its just SUPER slow in every game.

     

    Supposedly, a half-bad GPU doesn't always display artifacts and stuff. Someone else said his GPU was dying or half-dead, and he never had artifacts or anything like that...but his games did run super slow.

     

    Unless something else can also cause it)

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Sounds like more than just a GPU issue, if i was you i'd probably reinstall the mobo drivers, particularly the chipset, there's probably ones specific for the GPU too, it does sound more like your PC isn't completely set up. Best thing to do is go to your mobo manufacturer website and download and install all the relevant drivers, then do a clean install of the GPU drivers, all of them.image
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321

    Well, I used IoBit driver updater when I first reinstalled my PC. And it got all the drivers. But even before that, all my games were running super slow. Updating all the drivers didn't do anything to change that.

     

    I still get GPU driver crashes, and stress test showed the GPU shaders were having major issues and the GPU crashed during the stress test. None of the other tests showed any other issues.

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by TheScavenger

    Well, I used IoBit driver updater when I first reinstalled my PC. And it got all the drivers. But even before that, all my games were running super slow. Updating all the drivers didn't do anything to change that.

     

    I still get GPU driver crashes, and stress test showed the GPU shaders were having major issues and the GPU crashed during the stress test. None of the other tests showed any other issues.

    you might have to do a clean install, but to start with, never rely on 3rd party software/utilities to keep your pc healthy, not all of them are what they claim to be, your best bet is go and get the drivers etc, directly from the manufacturers website, at the moment it sounds like your pc is a bit borked, i would be extremely tempted to format the drive where the OS is, and reinstall the drivers, beginning with the mobo ones, either way, third party driver updaters are notoriously bad news, and has probably caused half the problems you are having to deal with now.image

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,705

    Have you checked your computer temperatures, especially GPU temp? Could it be an overheating problem?

     
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by TheScavenger

    Well, I used IoBit driver updater when I first reinstalled my PC. And it got all the drivers. But even before that, all my games were running super slow. Updating all the drivers didn't do anything to change that.

     

    I still get GPU driver crashes, and stress test showed the GPU shaders were having major issues and the GPU crashed during the stress test. None of the other tests showed any other issues.

    you might have to do a clean install, but to start with, never rely on 3rd party software/utilities to keep your pc healthy, not all of them are what they claim to be, your best bet is go and get the drivers etc, directly from the manufacturers website, at the moment it sounds like your pc is a bit borked, i would be extremely tempted to format the drive where the OS is, and reinstall the drivers, beginning with the mobo ones, either way, third party driver updaters are notoriously bad news, and has probably caused half the problems you are having to deal with now.image

    It could be I guess, but when I first installed the PC on the new hard drive...I was having the same exact issue I'm having now. Before I updated any drivers (except the GPU ones I had to get).

     

    And heating is fine, all the stress tests showed good power and heating.

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • centkincentkin Member RarePosts: 1,527

    That assumes that it is reading things correctly.

    Take the graphics card out of your computer, and blow all of the dust out of it.

    ----

    You can also check to see if any of the capacitors are blown. 

    Then there is if the cooling part of the card is actually cooling it -- is it attached properly etc. 

    -----

    Beyond this you might want to try clocking the card down.  Maybe it would work better at a lower frequency.

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    Originally posted by centkin

    That assumes that it is reading things correctly.

    Take the graphics card out of your computer, and blow all of the dust out of it.

    ----

    You can also check to see if any of the capacitors are blown. 

    Then there is if the cooling part of the card is actually cooling it -- is it attached properly etc. 

    -----

    Beyond this you might want to try clocking the card down.  Maybe it would work better at a lower frequency.

    I was told to do this by someone else, since my card comes superclocked factory and the guy said that will lower the health overall of the card. But, I'm too afraid to go into things and change it lol...don't really even know what program to use and he never replied after that.

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321

    One thing I noticed, at least in Skyrim

     

    My FPS in Skyrim when I FIRST enter the game (interior) is 40-50 FPS (with ENB)...but after a few seconds (3-5 seconds), it plummets down to 20-30 FPS.

     

    So, when I first enter skyrim, FPS is great. Very soon after, the FPS tanks.

     

    I think WoW is the same way, very good FPS and then a couple/few seconds later it tanks

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by TheScavenger

    Well, I used IoBit driver updater when I first reinstalled my PC. And it got all the drivers. But even before that, all my games were running super slow. Updating all the drivers didn't do anything to change that.

     

    I still get GPU driver crashes, and stress test showed the GPU shaders were having major issues and the GPU crashed during the stress test. None of the other tests showed any other issues.

    you might have to do a clean install, but to start with, never rely on 3rd party software/utilities to keep your pc healthy, not all of them are what they claim to be, your best bet is go and get the drivers etc, directly from the manufacturers website, at the moment it sounds like your pc is a bit borked, i would be extremely tempted to format the drive where the OS is, and reinstall the drivers, beginning with the mobo ones, either way, third party driver updaters are notoriously bad news, and has probably caused half the problems you are having to deal with now.image

    It could be I guess, but when I first installed the PC on the new hard drive...I was having the same exact issue I'm having now. Before I updated any drivers (except the GPU ones I had to get).

     

    And heating is fine, all the stress tests showed good power and heating.

    I've found that the best 'stress tester' for PC's is Prime 95 by mersenne, totally free, just use the torture test, short first to just test the cpu, and then mixed/long to test both cpu and ram, it doesn't test gpu sadly, but if you can run that thing for 30 mins without errors, and without overheating, then you can rule out the cpu and ram as being part of the problem, i use an msi 660 gtx twin frozr myself, and i've never had any issues, and thats even with an old 9950 4 core 2.6ghz, with 8gb of ddr2.. which is so out of date its unreal, and i never run anything at less than a full 1080, and for the games i do play, it certainly manages over 30 fps, which tbh, is pretty much a minimum spec, more is always better.image

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,321


    Originally posted by TheScavengerI was told to do this by someone else, since my card comes superclocked factory and the guy said that will lower the health overall of the card. But, I'm too afraid to go into things and change it lol...don't really even know what program to use and he never replied after that.

    Depending on drivers you use, it should be found within Nvidia Control Panel -> Performance -> Device settings.

    3rd party app(info)
    http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/SysInfo/GPU-Z/

    Clock Settings
    http://www.guru3d.com/content-page/rivatuner.html


    OpenGL test:
    http://www.geeks3d.com/gputest/download/

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321

    I'll try Prime 95

     

    Also, my Nvidia control panel doesn't have a performance area. It has 3d settings, display, the 3d thing and video adjustment. No performance under any of those.

     

    Also, GPU-Z says...(just desktop mode, no games running)

     

    GPU core clock 324.0

    GPU memory clock 162.0

    GPU temp 38.0

    Fan speed 30%

    fan speed (RPM) 1200 RPM and occasional 1970 RPM

    Memory used 248 MB

    GPU load 0%

    memory controller load 5%

    video engine/bus interface load both 0%

    power consumption 9.7%

    VDDC (dunno what that is) 0.8870V

     

    with skyrim running...(qas smoke interior)

    GPU core clock 1149.7 Mhz

    GPU memory clock 1502.3 MHz

    GPU temperature 64.0 C

    Fan speed 44%

    Fan speed 1680 RPM

    Memory used 880 MB

    GPU load 60-61%

    memory controller load 27%

    video engine/bus interface load 0%

    power consumption 80%

    VDDC 1.1750 V

     

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • MickleMickle Member UncommonPosts: 127
    I would go inside and give it a good burst of air just for the sake of doing it.  I have found most of my hardware problems are a dust buildup either on the PSU, chip fan or Video card.  Most people have no idea just how nasty the inside of a computer can be.
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321

    Wait...I already used Prime. I have it downloaded on my PC and the test came out fine. No crash or anything out of the ordinary. I forgot that was the program I used.

     

    (edit: I just dusted a couple days ago when I reinstalled my PC. I dust every 2-3 weeks and the dust wasn't bad when I did it, but I did it anyway)

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,321

    The values seem fine(a bit high your GPU clock but it could be OCed from stock).

    Does it crash when running OpenGL test?

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    Originally posted by Gdemami

    The values seem fine(a bit high your GPU clock but it could be OCed from stock).

    Does it crash when running OpenGL test?

    I'll test it later when I have more time. Probably won't be able to get to it tonight. Do I just let it run? It opened up a triangle thing and left it for a few minutes, but I think its supposed to do other stuff. I probably should look up how to run it, unless I just let it run. But, I'm going to have to leave and won't be back till tonight.

     

    And yeah, the card came stocked like that...I never make any of my own changes, as I don't want to break things.

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,682
    Originally posted by TheScavenger

    One thing I noticed, at least in Skyrim

     

    My FPS in Skyrim when I FIRST enter the game (interior) is 40-50 FPS (with ENB)...but after a few seconds (3-5 seconds), it plummets down to 20-30 FPS.

     

    So, when I first enter skyrim, FPS is great. Very soon after, the FPS tanks.

     

    I think WoW is the same way, very good FPS and then a couple/few seconds later it tanks

    That's very much characteristic of overheating.  What happens is that hardware is fine, then it gets too hot, so it throttles back the clock speed severely.  The CPU and GPU chips are not the only things that can overheat.  They are the things most prone to overheating because they put out the most heat, but a GPU may throttle back clock speeds because the VRMs are getting too hot, for example.

    Exactly what hardware do you have?  In particular, which case and which power supply?  And have you overclocked anything yourself?  Overheating within seconds doesn't strike me as likely to be due to general case airflow.  It could be that a heatsink isn't on securely, though.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,321


    Originally posted by TheScavenger

    It opened up a triangle thing and left it for a few minutes, but I think its supposed to do other stuff.

    You should run several tests simultaneously - they will run in separate windows.

    Keep observing your temps and speeds with GPU-Z.

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    When I was doing the heavy stress test on my hardware. The GPU crashed with a windows timeout error. And test wouldn't run again until I logged off.

    The heat was mostly fine. CPU got up to 70 degrees. Video card got up to 80 degrees.

    I will check heat sink though.

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • DeniZgDeniZg Member UncommonPosts: 697

    Sounds like overheating, as others have previously mentioned.

    Also, 70 degrees for CPU seems a bit high for non-OC CPU (default voltage).

    You might want to re-apply thermal paste to CPU as well as GPU and then go from there.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,321


    Originally posted by TheScavenger

    When I was doing the heavy stress test on my hardware. The GPU crashed with a windows timeout error. And test wouldn't run again until I logged off.The heat was mostly fine. CPU got up to 70 degrees. Video card got up to 80 degrees.I will check heat sink though.

    Your CPU and temps are just fine.

    Doing the OpenGL stress test, you can partly avoid some software issue, worth a try. PSU could also be a possibility.


    The best test would be to use the GPU in different computer to rule out all variables...but I assume that is something you already know. I also assume the card isn't under warranty any more?

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    Well, if it is a heating problem. It wouldn't be the case, its big with a lot of room inside. Could fit any GPU (even dual titans) and other hardware and still have room. Fans are in there too, and I dusted recently.

    I do know when doing GPU stress, performance was good for 2-4 seconds and then tanked with windows timeout error and crash. Like my games run fine at first then tank. Like in GPU stress test I did.

    I will make sure heat sink is good. But dunno what else it can be. Unless my GPU is bad. I may test it on another pc and make sure.

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,146

    If anything at all is overclocked, take it back to stock clocks.

    70C for CPU and 80C for a GPU are on the high side of what you'd like to see them, but not crazy high to the point it should be causing crashing. Even a big case can get overwhelmed if you don't have enough fans pulling in cool air and/or exhausting hot air. You have a GPU + CPU dumping a lot heat inside that case, and since both are a bit high, that's what I suspect - the heat is getting dumped inside, and it's not getting circulated out of the case well enough. It certainly isn't helping matters, and you'd like to get it taken care of, but I don't think that is what is causing your crashing. A decent $30 air cooler on a non-overclocked CPU should be able to hold around 55C under load, and a stock 660 around 70C. Those numbers do vary some based on installation, and if you have a big case, you should be running on the cooler side of the averages, not the higher side. Something to check out while your in there fixing the rest of the problem - a couple of 120mm fans stuck in there wouldn't cost much and would likely help considerably.

    There's also the case that you saw the software report 80C, then system crashed because the temperature was screaming up very quickly, and the software (it doesn't react instantly) didn't get a chance to register the highest temp before it crashed. For something like that to occur the heat sink as to be pretty loose on the GPU, or the TIM completely shot. They are possible to fix, but those things aren't very user friendly to get off, and a much-higher-than-zero chance of totally bricking the card. If your feeling adventurous, reseating the existing heatsink or getting an aftermarket heatsink on that card ~may~ fix it for free/cheap, but it is considerably more difficult than putting on a CPU heat sink, because there are VRMs and memory chips that the heatsink covers, and it has to line up with all of them, not crush/crack any of them, and there are a good many little screws and catches and plastic shrouds on a typical GPU heatsink.

    That pretty much leaves the GPU card itself, the power supply, and/or the motherboard (which isn't likely, but possible).

    I wouldn't be surprised if it's the VRM on the GPU - they commonly go before the rest of the card does, and the card will appear to be fine under low load, then tank/throttle under high load. That kinda fits your symptoms - easiest way to test it is to throw it into another computer and load it, but that isn't always easy getting a buddy to trust gutting their computer for a test (at least without beer in tow), and I certainly wouldn't pay the Geek Squad $100 just to tell you what your pretty sure you already know.

    That being said, it's also pretty common for a failing/out of spec power supply to fry video card VRMs. I've seen it happen more than once where the GPU fails, it gets replaced, and the replacement is fried too within 3 months, or the motherboard goes the next week, or something - and it was a bad power supply all along.

    I would say almost certainly your GPU is toast - even without necessarily putting it into another computer - your instincts are right, it has all the symptoms. I wouldn't order a new one without also replacing the power supply with it though, even if it's a great name brand reliable PSU - I would consider it a $50 insurance policy against frying the next video card, or the motherboard/RAM, or something else.

    First thing is to check the warranty - some cards have 3yr/5yr/Lifetime warranties, you may get lucky. If the warranty is shot, and money is tight or your feeling adventurous - try taking off the heatsink and resetting it (with new TIM), you may get lucky, and if something breaks, the card was already dead. If your time is more precious than your money, just replace the card outright with a new PSU - this gets your computer back up immediately (with something that is considerably faster than your old 660 for the same price you paid for your 660), and even if your old card is under warranty you can RMA it and ebay the warranty replacement to offset the cost of the new GPU (you'll likely get half or more back in cash once it's all said and done).

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321

    So, I narrowed it down to the GPU (it crashes on each stress test) AND probably the power supply.

     

    Earlier this week, at the same EXACT time my GPU started having problems...my hard drive randomly died on me. Windows popped up errors detecting "imminent hard drive failure". It went away with a new hard drive.

     

    After that, I put in a new hard drive and my GPU was then causing huge issues (it was fine before).

     

    So I think my PSU is killing my hardware, and I can't replace it until next week at the earliest.

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321

    Well, since I don't want to risk money on breaking a new GPU

     

    I'll be buying a power supply as soon as I can (I'm going with Seasonic 520 I think it is, its on amazon for 150 dollars)

     

    And I have the same motherboard as a backup, a crappy one...but it has had far less use. If a motherboard is bad, it can supposedly break hardware too. The backup one works fine, and "in case" it is a motherboard issue...I get two birds with one stone so to speak. I can't afford a new PSU+motherboard+ram+GPU all at once. I can only afford one thing...so might as well do safest option, a new PSU. And replace motherboard with same one I already have, in case my motherboard is the problem.

     

    A new PSU could fix a lot of the issues. And a new motherboard could solve a lot of things. Even if not, I need a new PSU anyway and might as well replace the motherboard with my backup one...in case something is wrong with it.

     

    Probably still have issues if it is indeed a GPU...but I don't risk breaking a new 350 dollar GTX 970.

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



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