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Star Citizen - try out anything NOW with REC (virtual currency)

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] UncommonPosts: 0
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  • TswordZTswordZ Member UncommonPosts: 66

    haha, lots of complains about the REC systems. Heck, even Chris Roberts post something about this. For now the system will be that, although the "unlock" will last 7 days, it will count just the days you get online. That's better... but not enough for many.  Maybe a poll will come about this. Let's see how it changes the situation.

    About funding, the initial kickstarter was for show the posibles investors that there was a market for a space sim. But when the money flowed so much, Chris Roberts "dropped" the option of using private investors and relied only in backers.

    Now, with all the amounts of money, CIG had begun to add features that, at first, would come after the release, as the procedural damage on ships, custom paints... And increase the quality of others, like FPS, animations and graphics.

    The "oh-so-much-time-required" is because this project wasn't secret for the first 2-3 years as usual. We know the advances, the plans, and all that things that deveolpment bring from (nearly) the very beginning, so, we have to wait (and read, and maybe test)  for the 4-5 years it tooks to finish an AAA title (Finish, not release a buggy mess with cutted content).

    We're at half development. CIG has given us lot of info about the mechanics, plans, lore... and the gameplay modules are part of the testing. The mechanics, balance could be changed BEFORE release, so, when the time comes (beginning 2017, I guess) we'll have a polished game.

    And yes, it's a long wait. For that reason, it's better for the ones with no so much patience to forget this game for a while and maybe, when some more interesting news about it comes, they could see if they're interested or not :-)

  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 2,359
    So they added ship rental to the cash shop in alpha test? If I want to help them test ship ABC, I can use real money to rent one for a week?

    ------------
    2022: 45 years on the Net.


  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Originally posted by olepi
    So they added ship rental to the cash shop in alpha test? If I want to help them test ship ABC, I can use real money to rent one for a week?

    Nope.

    Option 1, which happens often -   you test a certain ship type for free for a week (this week: all four Origin series ships)

    Option 2 - you test the ship you got in your pledge package  (or the nearest equivalent ship until the ship you have chosen becomes available ... e.g. I have a Constellation, but its a multiplayer ship and not in the game yet, so i got a Hornet). That ship you can use 24/7

    Option 3 - you playtest with your ship (any ship) from Option 2, earn REC for playtesting and with that REC virtual currency you then rent for a week any other available ship or equipment and test that one too.

    You CANNOT exchange real world money for the REC virtual currency. So you CANNOT use real world money to rent any ship in Arena Commander.

     

    Have fun

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Originally posted by Sulaa

    So you can grind in-game for some type of currency ynad buy stuff or you can use real $ to buy stuff?

     

    And this is a "good news" and shown as something "unexpected"?

     

    Hello.  This is exactly same thing that is in every single asian f2p mmo grinder since forever.

    In game after launch you earn in game money (called UEC) in the Persistent Universe. With that in game money you can buy ANYTHING in the game, including ships.

    A very limited amount of UEC can be bought with real world money (see UEC in the Star Citizen FAQ). It can be used to buy ship skins like in Elite:Dangerous, or temporary tune-up kits (around + 5 %ish or so), or weapons/missiles/shields. No ships (according to current plans the smallest ship costs more than you can have in that limited UEC wallet for the "in game mail-order-shop" ). The weapons/missiles/shields you can buy there are the same as the ones you buy in game - they are not better, there are NO UBER items that you can only buy exclusively with real world cash, there is NO premium ammo or fuel  which you may know from other games).

    So .. no, SC is not the same as "every single asian F2P mmo grinder" ...

    The topic of THIS thread is another virtual currency called REC. Real world money cannot be used to buy REC. There is no conversion factor.  REC is earned while you playtest the dogfighting module (Arena Commander) or the upcoming FPS module ("Battle Arena").  Most likely REC can still be earned after Star Citizen has launched (by playing in the sim-pod), but it can only used for the equipment used in sim-pod battles. REC cannot be used for equipment in the Persistent Universe .... the equipment in the Persistent Universe is bought with UEC earned from trading, missions, bounty hunting, exploring etc.

     

    Have fun

     

  • PepeqPepeq Member UncommonPosts: 1,977
    Originally posted by Erillion
    Originally posted by Sulaa

    So you can grind in-game for some type of currency ynad buy stuff or you can use real $ to buy stuff?

     

    And this is a "good news" and shown as something "unexpected"?

     

    Hello.  This is exactly same thing that is in every single asian f2p mmo grinder since forever.

    In game after launch you earn in game money (called UEC) in the Persistent Universe. With that in game money you can buy ANYTHING in the game, including ships.

    A very limited amount of UEC can be bought with real world money (see UEC in the Star Citizen FAQ). It can be used to buy ship skins like in Elite:Dangerous, or temporary tune-up kits (around + 5 %ish or so), or weapons/missiles/shields. No ships (according to current plans the smallest ship costs more than you can have in that limited UEC wallet for the "in game mail-order-shop" ). The weapons/missiles/shields you can buy there are the same as the ones you buy in game - they are not better, there are NO UBER items that you can only buy exclusively with real world cash, there is NO premium ammo or fuel  which you may know from other games).

    So .. no, SC is not the same as "every single asian F2P mmo grinder" ...

    The topic of THIS thread is another virtual currency called REC. Real world money cannot be used to buy REC. There is no conversion factor.  REC is earned while you playtest the dogfighting module (Arena Commander) or the upcoming FPS module ("Battle Arena").  Most likely REC can still be earned after Star Citizen has launched (by playing in the sim-pod), but it can only used for the equipment used in sim-pod battles. REC cannot be used for equipment in the Persistent Universe .... the equipment in the Persistent Universe is bought with UEC earned from trading, missions, bounty hunting, exploring etc.

     

    Have fun

     

    The fundamental problem with this is the fact that said items acquired in-game take longer than a credit card transaction does.  Which means, you can buy an advantage (even if only temporary).  YOU DON'T NEED TO SELL THESE ITEMS AT ALL.  You do so because YOU KNOW they want an in-game advantage and will pay for it.  Don't suggest that your motives are otherwise.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Originally posted by hfztt

    That would be the "They can scream all they want that this is different, but really it isn't." part.

    'nuff said.

    Or you can realize that there is a big hole in your logic because your critique w.r.t. to Freemium games is based on a real world money to virtual money conversion factor. As explained in the Southpark video.

    And for the REC virtual currency there IS NO CONVERSION FACTOR to real world money.

    So all the things described in the Southpark video DO NOT APPLY for the REC virtual currency (and i am only talking about REC here).

     

    Have fun

     

  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,746
    Originally posted by Erillion

    REC being a simulator only currency could mean that its still available after launch. However - its ONLY VALID inside the sim pod (the simulated game in the game - Dogfight Arena Commander and FPS Battle Arena). You would not be able to buy anything with it that you could use in the "real" Persistent Universe. This seems to be the appropriate official quote in this context.

    "Will my equipment carry over into the Persistent Universe?

    No, equipment rented in Arena Commander will be available only in your sim pod. When the Persistent Universe launches, you will have access only to upgrades purchased with UEC (or provided as gifts during the pledge campaign.) But we anticipate Arena Commander continuing to exist in the Star Citizen universe; it is, after all, a game played in SC’s future!"

    So it could well be that part of the Star Citizen PvP community will use the Sim Pod more than the PU for ranked PvP battles. You would not have to think about the "Death of a Spaceman" permadeath or ship insurance.

     

    Have fun

    Does that mean that AC is PvP only with PvP only rewards?  Will there be no options for PVE oriented players in this part of the game?

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  • ShaighShaigh Member EpicPosts: 2,125

    34 different ship packs, two different subscriptions, three different currency packs. If you aren't happy with your ship you can buy a ship upgrade.

     

    Who needs greedy publishers when your indie saviors are much worse.

    Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Originally posted by Pepeq

    The fundamental problem with this is the fact that said items acquired in-game take longer than a credit card transaction does.  Which means, you can buy an advantage (even if only temporary).  YOU DON'T NEED TO SELL THESE ITEMS AT ALL.  You do so because YOU KNOW they want an in-game advantage and will pay for it.  Don't suggest that your motives are otherwise.

    Chris Roberts has said it several times already in his video blogs that "Yes, you can pay for convenience. Yes, you can pay to save a bit of time if you are a casual gamer with a limited time budget."

    But by limiting the wallet size of the "in game mail order shop" that player can only gain a minimal temporary  advantage. There is simply not enough UEC in the wallet to buy the higher end stuff. The higher end stuff you can only buy in a specialized in-game store that you have to visit with your avatar.

    After a few hours or days in the game most likely no one is interested in those cheaper weapons/shields/missiles from the "in game mail order shop" anymore. The ship skins and tune-ups will most likely be interesting for a longer time.

    There are many many pages of design documents about the in game economy and the reasons behind it. Much more than i could ever post here. May i suggest that you take a look at those documents if you want a more detailed description on how the in game economy works ?

     

    Have fun

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Originally posted by Shaigh

    34 different ship packs, two different subscriptions, three different currency packs. If you aren't happy with your ship you can buy a ship upgrade.

     

    Who needs greedy publishers when your indie saviors are much worse.

    If you are not happy with your ship during pre-alpha playtesting, you can just wait to test another ship for free ... like this week.

    Only the most basic pledge package needed (which will give you the final game for about half the prize of a normal game).

    No 33 other ships needed, no different in game currencies needed.

     

    Have fun

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Originally posted by Vorthanion

    Does that mean that AC is PvP only with PvP only rewards?  Will there be no options for PVE oriented players in this part of the game?

    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14502-Design-Rental-Equipment-Credits

    "How do I Earn REC?

     

    REC is earned by playing competitive (ranked) multiplayer matches of Arena Commander, the FPS Module or any other Simulated Experience in Star Citizen. Each match awards REC from a common pot, awarding the greater share to the winners, which is then split among the members of the team based on performance. For example, in Arena Commander:

    • Squadron Battle: – REC is earned based on the number of kills plus the k:d if positive, weighted against the ticket difference.
    • Murray Cup: – REC is earned based on the final position multiplied by the proximity to World Record (by ship), weighted against Personal Best (by ship)
    • Capture the Core: – REC is earned based on personal score weighted against the score difference."

     

    The way I understand it you can only get REC for multiplayer activities. This does not have to be a fight, you can also participate in non-violent racing.  But for me personally multiplayer activities between competitive teams fall under the broad category of "PvP".  None of the playing modes mentioned are pure PvE modes.  But thats only the first draft / iteration of the REC system - it may well be that a PvE mode  option will be added before it goes live in Arena Commander.

     

    Have fun

     

     

     

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Originally posted by greenreen
     

    I'd say the real question is... exactly how long does a crowdfunding campaign go on before the shift changes to the product instead of money ventures.

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen

    $2,134,374
    pledged of $500,000 goal

    This project was successfully funded on November 19, 2012.

     

    The campaign has been going on nearing 3 years now according to when the Kickstarter ended and it was funded 4 times beyond what was requested.  Along with the website of the company it claims to have over 60 million now. 

    When do you stop funding and start working is I think where the criticism comes from. If you aren't working fervently until all stretch goals are met then it's a war of attrition because you don't intend on making substantial progress until the goal is met. If you wanted that goal, should have said it at the start.

    If you simply must have all your bells and whistles then the sky is the limit - this thing could be funding for 15 years or more. You all should be aware of scope creep. Something has to stop at some point or the additions keep the project behind.

    According to Wikipedia - you've made it into the Guinness World Book of Records for crowdfunding - where does it end.

    http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/2015/preview/files/assets/basic-html/page17.html

    How much is enough because I think - as an onlooker - you are taxing the patience of people by asking for money going on years now when the game isn't complete. I even made a joke the other day that you have no reason to leave beta because it makes more money than actually releasing.

    Sounds like you should adress this at CIG directly ;-) in the official forums.

    I can only answer from the perspective of a backer:

    The scope of the project has changed quite a bit since the Kickstarter campaign. Due to the unexpected success of the overall crowdfunding campaign, of which the Kickstarter campaign was only a small part. A vast majority of the backers liked that CIG was aiming high and supported the change of scope.

    With the scope the timetable has also changed. And CIG has communicated this very openly to the community  (and got many times the OK of the community via polls on the forums. And no - the polls were not manipulated, because tenthousands of posts on the forums agreed with the results).

    NO ONE is forcing anyone to pay more money. The ONLY thing one needs is the most basic pledge package (and they sold it for as low as 25 bucks). NOTHING else is needed unless YOU want it. Unless YOU want to spend more cash to support the project.

    Why should they stop selling the pledge packages ?  Why should they stop the crowdfunding campaign NOW ? Would  another company suddenly stop accepting pre-orders for a highly expected AAA game, be it Witcher 3 or Half-Life 3 or whatever ?

    That the development is progressing can be seen in VERY detailed monthly reports. I have never seen a game in development where you hear so much about the status of the project. Of course, you have to read those reports too. CIG does not force feed them to you.

    Of course, some people think its all a big scam, a pyramid scheme, a trick to keep the crowdfunding campaign and game development running well into the 2020ies.

    I cannot change what these people believe. I don't share that belief. I care for the available facts (and post them here) and try to stay reasonable well informed about the project. I have met some of the team at Gamescon 2014. I did not get the impression that these are scammers. If anything they are even more exited about SC than the backers are. They want it finished quickly, but to a high standard.  That is good enough for me. That is why i support this project.

     

    Have fun

     

     

  • hfztthfztt Member RarePosts: 1,399
    Originally posted by Erillion
    Originally posted by hfztt

    That would be the "They can scream all they want that this is different, but really it isn't." part.

    'nuff said.

    Or you can realize that there is a big hole in your logic because your critique w.r.t. to Freemium games is based on a real world money to virtual money conversion factor. As explained in the Southpark video.

    And for the REC virtual currency there IS NO CONVERSION FACTOR to real world money.

    So all the things described in the Southpark video DO NOT APPLY for the REC virtual currency (and i am only talking about REC here).

    Have fun

    They are using REC to condition you to not think about the in game currencies as real money, thus when you switch to UEC post launch you wont protest against how that currency IS bound to real money. The other part is that having REC in the game establishes the concept that the player have a choice between using time or money, then using the "barely fun" priciple you can push people to buying permanet unlocks (aka. Ships Packs) instead of grinding for REC. Its a mental diversion, "paying to test" sounds clearly unresonable, but "paying instead of grinding" sounds like a resonable trade.  

    So what exactly dont I get? They play thier players and condition them to behave in a specific (money spending) way, just like the freemium games.

    The REC system is a terrible idea. Let people just test freely all the ships and modules and be done with it. Not really that hard.

    'nuff said.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Originally posted by hfztt
    **snip**
    Let people just test freely all the ships and modules and be done with it. Not really that hard.

    'nuff said.

    You DO realize that Star Citizen has FREE ship test weeks all the time, do you not ?

     

    Have fun (testing the four Origin ships for free this week)

  • hfztthfztt Member RarePosts: 1,399
    Originally posted by Erillion
    Originally posted by hfztt
    **snip**
    Let people just test freely all the ships and modules and be done with it. Not really that hard.

    'nuff said.

    You DO realize that Star Citizen has FREE ship test weeks all the time, do you not ?

     

    Have fun (testing the four Origin ships for free this week)

    No I did not know that. But that is even MORE an argument agaist REC. Just scrap REC and give people access to all ships, all the time. Not that hard.

    'nuff said.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Originally posted by hfztt

    No I did not know that. But that is even MORE an argument agaist REC. Just scrap REC and give people access to all ships, all the time. Not that hard.

    'nuff said.

    By focussing the playtesters on a special kind of ship (to be tested for free in a certain week) CIG gets the mass test results and feedback when they need it and for the topic they need.

    Its just a way of organized, focussed playtesting and QA with tenthousands of testers.

    If you test all ships and all equipment all the time in a state of the game where many things are still in constant flux, 90 % of your test results are obsolete by the time you really need it.

     

    Have fun

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,167

    Erillion, you are like some noble Paladin, serving an evil, mad king, in hopes that the country will survive him and eventually prosper.

     

    ;)

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Originally posted by Arglebargle

    Erillion, you are like some noble Paladin, serving an evil, mad king, in hopes that the country will survive him and eventually prosper.

     

    ;)

    So far the King has not shown signs of a wicked heart.

    He does some things ("collect taxes")  that are needed for the kingdom to prosper and which some people do not like, will never like .... that does neither make him evil nor mad.

    If he DOES continue to raise unnecessary "taxes" once the kingdom is in good shape or if he throws away "tax" money for useless prestige projects .... then the populance will take appropriate action.

     

    Have fun

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,167

    Many who knew him in his youth would beg to differ.   It is easier to know the nature of things when you work together closely each day, as opposed to those who stand at the crowd's periphery and hear the vainglorious eloquence of carefully crafted rhetoric.   Some say it is the growth of wisdom that many see in the King, but  it more resembles the expansion of his guile.   While he says he has returned now to rule his true love,  it only came to pass after his failure in that which he truly desired.    Now he raises his banners here once again, and with honeyed tongue and overblown claims of past glory, he raises the masses to his crusade.   

     

    Perhaps his crusade will succeed, for even a Pretender can sometimes create a lasting monument.

     

    (Though I doubt that REC will end up being that important in the final analysis;)

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Originally posted by Arglebargle

    Perhaps his crusade will succeed, for even a Pretender can sometimes create a lasting monument.

    So say we all ....

     

    Have fun

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    Originally posted by Hrimnir
    Originally posted by karmath

    While I like the premise of SC it will turn into a dogshit pay or quit game due to the cancer of micro transactions.

    See Archeage. Wonderful game ruined by the cash shop. To play even semi competitively endgame you have to spend 10+ hours online grinding gold to buy labor pots off the AH, or you buy labor pots direct from the cash shop for real money. There is no other option.

    But, but, F2P is the way of the future!!!!

    Oh, it definitely is. At least the microtransaction part of so-called "F2P"...

     

    No right-thinking company would go back to a payment model that actually prevents the customer from spending more than a fixed amount (B2P and/or subscription) every month. In what world does that make sense ?

     

    Business logic dictates that you should give customers as many ways as possible of giving you money. Not only that, but your investors will demand that you keep increasing the amounts of money your customers give you, by any means possible. In the modern world, the moment a company stops growing it's earnings is the moment that it starts dying...

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    **snip**
    but your investors will demand that you keep increasing the amounts of money your customers give you, by any means possible.

     

    Hmm, at least for Star Citizen the investors are WE, the backers.  And i suspect the vast majority of us are NOT demanding from CIG to increase the income by any means possible ;-)

     

    Have fun

  • hfztthfztt Member RarePosts: 1,399
    Originally posted by Erillion
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    **snip**
    but your investors will demand that you keep increasing the amounts of money your customers give you, by any means possible.

    Hmm, at least for Star Citizen the investors are WE, the backers.  And i suspect the vast majority of us are NOT demanding from CIG to increase the income by any means possible ;-)

    Have fun

    Except most of the actual development is outsourced to investor backed development houses... They are most likely trying to get the max profit out of this golden goose. So all the usual investor/publisher "waste" is still there, it is just hidden a bit away, which makes for great PR but little economic difference in the final analysis... 

    'nuff said.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Originally posted by hfztt

    Except most of the actual development is outsourced to investor backed development houses... They are most likely trying to get the max profit out of this golden goose. So all the usual investor/publisher "waste" is still there, it is just hidden a bit away, which makes for great PR but little economic difference in the final analysis... 

    'nuff said.

    "..most .. is outsourced .."

    Lemme see .. team size 300ish .. of  that outside contractors = 80 ish. ...

    Those dastardly lazy 220 members of the core team are all doing nothing ?   Fiendish plan ...

     

    Have fun

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