Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Star Citizen - try out anything NOW with REC (virtual currency)
Erillion
Member EpicPosts: 10,297
Greetings fellow Star Citizens,
as expected CIG announced the Arena Commander credits, now called the REC (Rental Equipment Credits). And its better than expected. You not only can rent equipment like weapons, skins, missiles etc., you will also be able to rent just about every available SHIP !
So it does not matter if you started with a small Aurora starter package for 25 $ .. by play-testing the Arena Commander and FPS Battle Arena you will be able to get REC and with that you can check out ANYTHING you like. Without having to spend real world cash to convert it into virtual SC currency. Which should put to rest all the accusations of SC Alpha and Beta testing being P2W and CIG being a money-grabbing pyramid scheme.
And as this simulated equipment will NOT carry over into the Persistent Universe, it will not unbalance the game post-launch.
Read all the details in this long design posting and Chris Roberts newest "Note from the Chairman".
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14502-Design-Rental-Equipment-Credits
Have fun
Comments
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14502-Design-Rental-Equipment-Credits
"Note from the Chairman
Greetings Citizens,
Last week, Kotaku ran an article showcasing Arena Commander’s combat. While the focus was that dogfighting looks great in action, one other thing immediately stood out: the video was an Aurora pilot flying with a HOTAS and TrackIR setup… and he was schooling Hornet after Hornet! The video, embedded below, tells me that we’re on the right track in creating a skill based game where battles are decided by the abilities of the pilots just as much as the capabilities of their equipment.
One of the design tenets of Star Citizen is that it needs to be a complete experience regardless of what you have purchased. Someone buying a starter package needs to have exactly as much potential as someone supporting development by pledging for a new ship or a purchasing a new weapon. I do not want to make a game where you feel compelled to spend anything but time to continue playing.
In the Persistent Universe, that will be easy: you’ll earn credits flying missions, locating star systems, hauling goods, hunting bounties and through a dozen other activities. You’ll rapidly explore and expand your universe. But the pilots helping us develop our spaceflight in Arena Commander don’t have that ability… yet!
With Arena Commander 1.1, we intend to roll out a system called REC, or Rental Equipment Credits. In essence, you will be able to earn credits to rent equipment to use in Arena Commander by playing Arena Commander’s ranked modes. We want to reward backers for their time spent with the early game with a more expansive experience, not prevent them from accessing things that will be readily available in the Persistent Universe. You’ll still be able to support the development of the game by pledging for ships and weapons, and these will carry across into the Persistent Universe but you will no longer have to contribute additional money to fly a different ship or use a new weapon; You’ll have a choice. Spend time playing the game, which will earn REC to be spent on ships and weapons for use in Arena Commander or pledge for these items, supporting the ongoing development and running costs of the game. It’s the classic time vs money proposition and either way you’ll be helping making Arena Commander and Star Citizen better! This is always how the final game was intended to work and we’ve decided that we need to bring this dynamic into play sooner than later!
Star Citizen designer Calix Reneau details the system below, which we believe is a winner. Now, we’d like your feedback: is this the right direction for the system? Where would you like to see it go, in the near term and the long? Letting players earn credits in-game is a no-brainer, but working out the specifics is going to be an ongoing process no different from how we are continuing to work out flight controls and weapon balance!
From my perspective, Arena Commander is shaping up to be a fantastic standalone experience, something backers will want to continue to play in their new sim pods even after the Persistent Universe launches. I’m grateful for the testing and support the community has provided to get us to this point. It’s something every one of you should be proud of… and now let’s make it even better!
— Chris Roberts"
Have fun
I am not sure if you guys and gals can only read this if you are a backer/subscriber as someone told me, so i repost it here from the CIG homepage.
Have fun
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14502-Design-Rental-Equipment-Credits
"Design: Rental Equipment Credits
Ship selection mockup.
How do I Earn REC?
REC is earned by playing competitive (ranked) multiplayer matches of Arena Commander, the FPS Module or any other Simulated Experience in Star Citizen. Each match awards REC from a common pot, awarding the greater share to the winners, which is then split among the members of the team based on performance. For example, in Arena Commander:
Players can also earn bonus REC from medals, which are awarded for various milestones – umber of kills earned, number of missiles dodged, total matches, etc. These medals track over multiple matches and are recurring, so players can always make some progression even if they only play a match or two here and there.
To prevent exploitation, this pot is associated with a total score expected from all participants, and scales REC yield based on the total score actually achieved. It also scales based on the number of participants. For example, a REC pot of 12,000 with a total score of 100,000 will only split 9600 REC if the players only collectively manage to score a total of 80,000 points. That same game will only split 4800 REC if the 10 player match only gets 5 participants.
How does the rental system work?
All rented equipment is rented for one week of real time use – guaranteeing that you always get at least a little bit of time with the ship. Ships and weapons cost 10% of their UEC price, rounded up. Once an item has been rented, it can be renewed for another week at a 20% discount. Renewals can only be bought a week in advance. (Remaining rental time is visible in your RSI account and within the Sim-Pod HoloTable)
Examples:
There are also broader goals available for the REC endgame – for example, we envision building a Community Chest into which players can donate REC that builds towards permanent prizes and other gameplay experiences. Imagine having the option between renting new equipment or helping the community earn something together… it should make for an interesting challenge!
Current Balance Plan
Averaged at 1800 REC per hour. Please note that this currently represents ‘back of the envelope’ thinking; actual balance will likely alter significantly after the system launches and we determine how players use the system. But the goal remains to create a system that makes renting additional equipment a fun challenge rather than an impossible chore.
Game Modes that Yield REC
Can I use rented ships and equipment in non-ranked modes?
Yes, and there will be no limit on such uses.
How do I spend REC?
REC is spent on ship and equipment rentals or Sim Pod unlocks. This can be done from Voyager Direct, the mobiGlas, or the Sim Pod. Once a ship/item is rented, it can be renewed for 1 additional week at a discount.
As the system is developed, REC can also be spent to unlock additions to your Sim Pod, such as aesthetic changes like different background images/theme in the menus, or gameplay changes like opt-in handicaps which can be taken to boost REC yield at the cost of additional gameplay restrictions. Finally, REC can also (eventually) be donated to the Community Chest, a mystery box that results in Community Events when enough total REC is accumulated. Community Events benefit all players who log on while they are in effect.
Will my equipment carry over into the Persistent Universe?
No, equipment rented in Arena Commander will be available only in your sim pod. When the Persistent Universe launches, you will have access only to upgrades purchased with UEC (or provided as gifts during the pledge campaign.) But we anticipate Arena Commander continuing to exist in the Star Citizen universe; it is, after all, a game played in SC’s future!
Why have rental items instead of permanent ones?
We know that choosing rental equipment instead of permanent AC-only unlocks will likely be the most controversial part of this plan. We’ve run through countless scenarios offering one, the other or a mix of both… and what we’ve decided is that at this time, rental is the way to go. What follows is the five key points we used to make this decision:
What’s Next?
We envision enhancing the REC system alongside everything else in Arena Commander going forward! In addition to building the system out based on player feedback, we have several systems we hope to deploy in future patches:
Daily Challenges
REC can be earned by completing personal and community daily challenges. Community challenges pay out at the end of the day if they have been fulfilled, and reward all players who have contributed to the challenge at all. These also have the benefit of allowing new gameplay features to be highlighted.
Personal Challenge Examples
Community Challenge Examples
Community Chest
The Community Chest accumulates with REC donated to it until it reaches 100%, when it activates a surprise Community Event that is available to all players during its duration (which can be set individually for each event, but which would generally last 2 weeks). When it reaches 100%, a Community Event begins and is available to all players during its duration.
Discounts / Bonus Yield
REC discounts on specific ships and equipment can be used to encourage users towards their use. Ships can also give bonuses to REC as additional incentive.
We are hoping to launch the REC system with Arena Commander’s next major patch, currently scheduled to be AC 1.1. This will allow backers to earn REC and spend them on store items. Additional functionality will be added as we go, just like the rest of the AC development process! Until then, please provide your feedback below. You’re helping us build Star Citizen AND Arena Commander, and we want to know what you think!
Disclaimer
As with any design post, this article represents our current thinking for the systems covered. All content is subject to change as a result of testing. The numbers provided here represent data that is current as of publication, but which will likely be altered in a number of ways before launch to create the best possible Star Citizen experience."
Have fun
This REC system proposal is terrible and highlights the awful marketing mindset inside CIG, it's right up there with EA's Dungeon Keeper Mobile / Zynga farmville crap.
Thats what they do for the last two years. Nothing is set in stone for REC yet.
Have fun
While I like the premise of SC it will turn into a dogshit pay or quit game due to the cancer of micro transactions.
See Archeage. Wonderful game ruined by the cash shop. To play even semi competitively endgame you have to spend 10+ hours online grinding gold to buy labor pots off the AH, or you buy labor pots direct from the cash shop for real money. There is no other option.
This REC money cannot be used in game after launch. Its a currency ONLY for playing the game IN the game ("Arena Commander" and FPS "Battle Arena" in game played in a sim-pod). So its not identical to micro transactions in the real game.
REC was invented so everyone in Alpha or Beta can test out anything no matter what pledge package they pledged for. Someone with a 25 $ Aurora starter package can still test out high end ships from pledge packages worth several hundred bucks. Not to mention that often enough there are "Test for free weeks" anyway ... like this week, where everyone can test out the 4 Origin series ships for free.
Although after launch there will be a shop where you can trade real world money into virtual currency, its far far away from the things you see in e.g. Archeage. First of all the wallet size for this UEC virtual cash is limited. So you cannot trade a significant amount of real world cash into UEC in one month. And it cannot accumulate over several months or by pooling UEC from several accounts. Second: the type of things you can buy is limited - ship skins like in Elite-Dangerous, temporary tune-ups (of approx up to + 5 % effect), NO SHIPS !, some weapons/missiles/shields (although explicitely NOTHING that is exclusively available for real world cash only - EVERYTHING from that shop you can also buy with in game money if you want).
In Star Citizen you have plenty of other options compared to Archeage.
There is a detailed post by Chris Roberts on his position on P2W (and a thread with a few thousands comments)
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/173901/#Comment_173901
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pD2_Pbvde4
Have fun
Can you provide a quote saying that REC will stop when the game launches. Because you say it as if it is so, yet I haven't seen anything stating REC stops at launch of the PU.
I only ask, as the game becomes more and more of a PvE game, the less and less I look forward to even participating in the PU. In fact, I harbor no intent to play in the PU. Because technical requirements the game will put on multiplayer, and the enslavement the developers have to the Horde of PvE'ers I expect PvP to be non existent in the PU. More on the same level as other PvE games where you can go to the PvP area, or flag lol. Not something I'm excited about.
The lobby system/ match making portion(Arena Commander) holds some allure, like lobby/matches in other games. You see, earning credits in the Arena Commander Module is a good move in my book, so I can skip the PvE game/PU, but if it's going to stay a rental system than that portion of the game can go **** it's self.
I would not play any match/lobby game that had you lose that which you've bought over time. Horrible premise.
I realize my post seems to slight the game, so I'll be honest:
1. I am hyped 100% for Squadron 42. Stoked to play the game with my brother(CO-OP).
2. I was 100% hyped to play the Arena Commander module as a lobby/match system type game(like CoD, BF, Arma etc), but with the rental system, that portion of the game sounds horrid. Now, I'm only 50/50 on whether that portion of the game holds any allure to me.(to be fair, I don't care if nothing earned in Arena Commander can be taken into the PU, I wouldn't want the PU imbalanced because of the arena, but would be nice to have a ladder in Arena Commander to climb, not a rental system.
3. PU- not really excited to play this in any shape or form. The technical Requirements of the game will hamper PvP, and kill any chance of territory control, or player competition, and I like I said earlier, the PvE community reigns supreme in the making of Star Citizen, and most if not every mmo nowadays. Than they wonder why the mmo tanks at 6 months(every single one minus WoW), when the players chew threw content and grow bored and quit for the shiniest newest mmo coming out.
REC being a simulator only currency could mean that its still available after launch. However - its ONLY VALID inside the sim pod (the simulated game in the game - Dogfight Arena Commander and FPS Battle Arena). You would not be able to buy anything with it that you could use in the "real" Persistent Universe. This seems to be the appropriate official quote in this context.
"Will my equipment carry over into the Persistent Universe?
No, equipment rented in Arena Commander will be available only in your sim pod. When the Persistent Universe launches, you will have access only to upgrades purchased with UEC (or provided as gifts during the pledge campaign.) But we anticipate Arena Commander continuing to exist in the Star Citizen universe; it is, after all, a game played in SC’s future!"
So it could well be that part of the Star Citizen PvP community will use the Sim Pod more than the PU for ranked PvP battles. You would not have to think about the "Death of a Spaceman" permadeath or ship insurance.
Have fun
lemme know when there is a game to play, dont care too much about what i can buy or use in the future.
it's about the now.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Wow!! How brilliant is that??! They're not just selling virtual ships inside a game anymore -- They're selling virtual ships inside a virtual game inside a game!!
Hope they don't get too recursive there....
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
South Park did this really fine explanation of most of the mechanics at work here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CbWr0zO7Ac
They can scream all they want that this is different, but really it isn't.
By offering the sim-pods in game, the hard-core PvP players can do competitive gaming without killing off too many of their characters due to the "permadeath" in SC ("in game e-sport leagues" I see :-). Its also a good training environment for the "real" assaults out in the Persistent Universe.
I doubt we will usher in the Singularity by going recursive inside Star Citizen ;-)
Have fun
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
It has features that should have been in EVE for the last three years. CCP tried walking in stations and failed ... it is hardly working with a single character alone in his/her captain quarters and caused grafic card meltdowns whenever you tried to have several avatars interacting. That was also one of the reasons the World of Darkness MMO was cancelled ... the performance was abysmal.
However, EVE Online and Star Citizen have major differences and SC will never be an uber version of EVE Online.
EVE Online : economy mostly player driven --> SC 90 % NPC economy
EVE Online : essentially PvP everywhere, no where is safe --> SC while PvP is possible everywhere in principle, there are ways and means ("PvP/PvE slider") to avoid it almost all of the time (unless you really provoke it by flying in the pirate systems on the edge of civilization for a significant amount of time).
EVE Online : battles with thousands of players --> SC instanced with 100ish participants (yes, you can have a battle with 4000 players in both games ... but in EVE those 4000 see each other, while in SC you have e.g. 40 instances with 100 players each)
EVE Online - more strategy type space combat --> SC twitch skill like joystick flying (and yes, I know that EVE now has WASD flying - its not comparable to SC - and yes, I know about EVE Valkyrie - which only works for carrier fighters, but not the EVE ships itself).
EVE Online allows a lot of metagaming --> SC has taken steps to reduce the effect of metagaming and the influence of big player organizations.
Have fun
He said that he thinks his design is proving player skill.
So i click the video and all it showed me was a player lining up his aim reticle and clicking/spamming fire.If he thinks that is what a SKILL based system is,then he does not get it at all.The universe is still a weak part of the game,it showed no interaction of using the surroundings to aid in combat,more like standing in an open box and just firing at each other with semi slow moving physics.
The inside of that Aurora is so cheap looking,he can't possibly be serious taking people's 25 bucks for that ?That is like barely acceptable for a freeware effort.Oh well people should already understand the VALUE in a purchase,if not so be it,their loss not mine.
Lastly,WHY?
Why can't he simply say "we want people to come test our game"?Instead it is like we are offering this SPECIAL FAVOR,oh yes we testing YOUR game for YOU is a special favor to us?I can't wait for my neighbor to come knocking on my door asking i pay him to change his flat tire.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Well, it's not just about buying a beta or a ship. It's about buying the future game as well.
Flight and shooting still being tested, so I'll wait until it's done, but I can say still not completely good, but better than before, so I guess they're moving at the right direction.
And it's a game about skill because this is not "tab+1+2+3+1+1". If you don't aim you won't kill anything, and if you don't move you'll be killed (Except if all the systems are off and you want to keep stealth... but that will work just in the Persistent Universe)
And about the "cheapness" of the Aurora... it's the cheapest ship! of course it won't look classy. Oh, guess you know that you can walk a bit on the ship and even sleep (for "save postion" before exit game), and all the systems it have and blablabla. But yeah, to buy more ships it would be for support the project as having a better ship would be funnier do it playing the game, but, well, it's for all that people that spends a lot we'll have a nice game, too :-)
The Aurora is the basic starter ship, with a very austere and ultilitarian look. It also has a bad thruster spacing which makes it not as maneuverable as other ships. Its the old VW Volkswagen of Star Citizen. Check out some other videos on YouTube and you will see that there are ships that look much cooler than the Aurora - outside and inside the cockpit. While the Aurora (and the Hornet) flies like a pregnant pig, you should try out an Origin ship (its free this week) or even an M50 racer. Completely different behaviour and IMHO much more impressive than the Aurora.
You wil also find many other videos where pilots DO use the environment, playing hide and seek between asteroids or beams of terraformers. With the new missile dynamics you can also play around a lot with the missiles. You can make others lose their lock on you, fool their missiles and use YOUR missiles for devastating effect.
You are not paying 25 bucks for the Aurora per se. You pay about half the prize of a typical AAA game for an upcoming Sci-Fi AAA level game with an extensive solo campaign and a rich multiplayer extended universe.
>>>Why can't he simply say "we want people to come test our game"?>>>> maybe because he already said it a few thousands times in the last 2.5 years ?
Have fun
Except for the reason that you cannot exchange real world money for REC virtual currency.
Which is the foundation of the "freemium" games mentioned in the Southpark video.
Have fun
Apparently you forgot about them selling ships for hundreds/thousands of dollars, real dollars.
Which is the foundation of the "freemium" games mentioned in the Southpark video.
Have fun
Nope ... did not forget about it. You seem to think this is an on-line shop in game - be it freeium or otherwise.
But it is not a game yet. Its a crowdfunding campaign. Crowdfunding campaigns are offering pledge/support packages at varying levels ... from the cheap starter package to the high end "gold package" for thousands of dollars. That is nothing specific to Star Citizen.
Let me give you an example: Shadowrun Hongkong Kickstarter campaign (almost over, already a great success)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/webeharebrained/shadowrun-hong-kong
Also has 10.000 $ packages. "HBS Loves you !" and makes you a co-producer of the game. You meet the creator of the game. Your face will be in the game, your name in game and novel etc. Does that mean your character will be the UBER dominating force in Shadowrun Hong Kong, unbalancing the game ? That Shadowrun Hongkong is a dastardly P2W title best avoided ? That they will continue to sell UBER characters once the game has launched to cater to the same whales that buy 10 k$ Kickstarter pledge packages ?
IMHO the answer is three times : "NO". As it is also "NO" in the case of Star Citizen. To help to create the game the people can contribute at varying levels. CIG is not selling ships as you seem to think. CIG offers opportunities to support an idea. As a "thank you" they give you something in return, which includes a ship (but is usually much more than that). The true value of the ship does not necessarily directly relate to the cost of the pledge package - bigger and more expensive is not better in Star Citizen, as every ship has a different role. Its not like the T1-T10 progression in WoT.
Have fun
PS:
Do not confuse
a) real world cash
b) UEC in game currency (which has a conversion factor to real world cash)
c) REC virtual in game currency (which has NO conversion factor to real world cash)
THIS thread is about REC virtual currency !
awesome new system!
right in the face of agenda posters who complained about "selling" (pledging) for empty ship hulls is soo unfair.
Now what's next to complain about, I wonder? Everything has been debunked so far. It's not vaporware, it's not pay2win, it's feature locked, development is steamrolling ahead, budget is growing at a healthy rate.
Kotaku even ran a great video of an Aurora pilot pwning Hornets over and over again so even the Bs about overpowered ships has been debunked time and again.
going to donate another 100$ in March probably getting a mousepad and another game package for a friend
But, but, F2P is the way of the future!!!!
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Seriously? You are doing THAT argument?
Of course they are selling ships, when you put a "F7C HORNET" under a "SHIPS" titel in your "Pledge" shop, yeah, you can call call it Pledgeing all you want, they are selling the ship.
'nuff said.
That would be the "They can scream all they want that this is different, but really it isn't." part.
'nuff said.
So you can grind in-game for some type of currency ynad buy stuff or you can use real $ to buy stuff?
And this is a "good news" and shown as something "unexpected"?
Hello. This is exactly same thing that is in every single asian f2p mmo grinder since forever.