Originally posted by Dren_Utogi I think the fact that Sony sold an entire division speaks volumes.
Well, now wait a minute.
You can't start saying "analysis, look at the facts" when we actually have very few facts.
I'm aware that SOE wasn't making gobs of money but are you actually arguing against an earnings sheet?
Do we know how much money they gained or lost over the past few years?
and of course, the reason I ask is that divisions are sold off all the time even if they are profitable. They might just not be "profitable enough".
Heck, I worked for a company that was profitable but they decided to lay off a percentage of their work force because they didn't grow as much as they thought they would grow. They still grew, they just didn't make projections.
I'm not convinced that they were purchased because of Everquest Next. I do think they missed the boat a bit wit this title as I remember the announcement and it didn't seem the audience was that enthused.
I wouldn't say the title or IP was washed up though.
No one was talking about Fallout and "bam" bethesda made a successful fallout game.
It's not the ip that is having a problem it's how they are working it. At least from where I sit.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I think it would be best to see the franchise go out with what dignity it has left and let that team create a new independent IP that wouldhave all of the wants an EQ fan would want, but bring it to a whole new audience who don't care for the name "everquest" or the stigma the game has gotten over the past 17 years ....
IP's don't get tired. Thats not how an IP works.
The game Everquest *might* be old and tired, but an IP doesn't work that way. The original vehicle for the IP can either be so well made that it just lasts forever (think Lord of the Rings) or it can be kept fresh with lots of new material. Or it can be neither and it gets forgotten.
But ya.. an IP doesn't get old and die. Only the medium.
Vanguard was maybe the most interesting and original thing they have made since Everquest, but the support for the game at all levels and its management were an absolute mess. That game wasn't even given a chance to being good.
They didn't make Vanguard, they were just the publisher after Microsoft pulled out. They lost money with it and probably decided that they would never see that money back even if they invested more money to "fix it".
They run a business, not a charity.
Actually they didn't publish Vanguard either Sigil did.
SoE acquired the game, hired some of the ex-Sigil staff (not necessarily for Vanguard) but didn't buy the company - so no liabilities or debts. The game was a mess though in terms of bugs etc. and probably not bringing in a lot of money so probably never got a lot of support. Chicken and egg.
I think it would be best to see the franchise go out with what dignity it has left and let that team create a new independent IP that wouldhave all of the wants an EQ fan would want, but bring it to a whole new audience who don't care for the name "everquest" or the stigma the game has gotten over the past 17 years ....
The IP is no more tired than Star Trek, Star Wars, or Lord of the Rings, although obviously not on those scales. It's not the IP that's tired, it's the unwanted iteration ("Disney's World of Minecraft") that no one wanted but the devs.
Artstyle was not well received.
Combat, same.
Voxels? Who cares. I think many folks just want to play in Norrath.
I would advise against underestimating this IP. In the rights hands, it could bring wonders.
So, yes, "shut down" current development on EQN. Then realign things and start it right back up.
I have nothing against the Voxels or the emergent AI. I can even live with the art. It's the class mechanics and gameplay that have been revealed to date that I disagree with.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi I think the fact that Sony sold an entire division speaks volumes.
Yes, and there is a specific reason for that. Sony losing billions and any non-PS4 games not being a part of Sony's "pillars" going forward. I'm not saying Daybreak is pulling in record breaking numbers but they had to have some value in order to be acquired by CN, maintaining the titles, and still actively developing future ones.
Ahhhhhh, I remember the days when Sony was known for more than just a console name. Walkman anyone?
Look up the Walkman ZX2
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
PVP is on the rise? Really? Where? I hope you don't mean AA lol.
LOL!
I was thinking the same thing when I read this. Maybe he is referring to Crowfall and a few other soon to fail Korean MMOs that are focusing more on PvP, but I don't think an all PvP focused MMO is going to ever be a blockbuster.
PVP is on the rise? Really? Where? I hope you don't mean AA lol.
Yes; the sheer number of PVP games crashing and burning never ceases to amaze me.
Tons of people join looking for the next big thing. A few people reach the top and start griefing everyone else. Everyone else leaves. The griefers go looking for the next big thing.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
Originally posted by NobleNerd I don't think an all PvP focused MMO is going to ever be a blockbuster.
These types of statements are true until they're not. Who would've thought an MMO could ever have 15 million concurrent subs before WoW came along? Nobody, yet it happened anyway.
All we know right now is there's definitely enough PvP loving gamers to make it happen. The trick is just to get them to play MMOs and I'm sure it'll happen...eventually.
my cousin works for SOE, brb ill tell him to write an email to his boss's boss telling him to shut the game down because this guy with a bachelors in forum whining on the mmorpg forums said so.
PVP is on the rise? Really? Where? I hope you don't mean AA lol.
Yes; the sheer number of PVP games crashing and burning never ceases to amaze me.
Tons of people join looking for the next big thing. A few people reach the top and start griefing everyone else. Everyone else leaves. The griefers go looking for the next big thing.
From my experience. Yes, yes it happens exactly like that lol.
I think it would be best to see the franchise go out with what dignity it has left and let that team create a new independent IP that wouldhave all of the wants an EQ fan would want, but bring it to a whole new audience who don't care for the name "everquest" or the stigma the game has gotten over the past 17 years ....
So few words, so much missunderstanding.
This "tired" IP still has more player then the bottom 70-90% of MMOs combined.
All the wants an EQ Fan would want IS Everquest. Nothing that came after is even remotly close to what EQ offered.
Doing a new IP to appeal to fans of an old IP is wrong on so many ends.
Everquest Next actually is nothing like EQ. It is like a differend game with the same IP, so i do agree: Shut it down. It will be crap.
+1 I'm a big fan of EQ/Vanguard and loved them both,EQN so far has no appeal for me.
Eq offered me a sense of accomplishment and immersion like no other game since. For me, it was never about the lore or even the graphics.
Among my fondest memories....kiting hill giants, camping Jboots, popping that 3rd or even 4th Bard song tick, escorting friends through Kithicor at night, timing my complete heals to avoid a wipe, sending in my rogue to pull corpses from the throne room in LGuk, avoiding the trains in Blackburrow, even losing a level sometimes, and the list goes on.
Everything I did in EQ seemed to have real consequences and required that I was actually paying attention. This is the experience I miss. Now I watch Netflix, skype and follow the news while playing. I still have fun, but its nothing like the intensity I experienced playing EQ.
Games are just getting so easy now. Sure the action is faster paced, the voice overs are cool, the graphics top notch, but that feeling of being afraid of whats behind the corner....gone. And I have been back to EQ fairly recently and while it still has some features I enjoy, it is nothing like the original EQ I fell in love with.
In my perfect world I would love for EQNext to start with a foundation that incorporates all of the things that made EQ so memorable and then build out to include some of the newer innovations. Of course my perfect world also has Jessica Alba on standby so there's that.
Del Cabon A US Army ('Just Cause') Vet and MMORPG Native formerly of Trinsic, Norath and Dereth. Currently playing LOTRO.
PVP is on the rise? Really? Where? I hope you don't mean AA lol.
Yes; the sheer number of PVP games crashing and burning never ceases to amaze me.
Tons of people join looking for the next big thing. A few people reach the top and start griefing everyone else. Everyone else leaves. The griefers go looking for the next big thing.
From my experience. Yes, yes it happens exactly like that lol.
I was starting to think I was the only one that experienced that.
Funny enough, even today I saw someone say that EQNext needed to be a non-consensual PvP-sandbox game otherwise it was doomed and that PvP-focused games were the future. Thinking about it, maybe it was someone who wanted to see the world burn.
PVP is on the rise? Really? Where? I hope you don't mean AA lol.
Yes; the sheer number of PVP games crashing and burning never ceases to amaze me.
Tons of people join looking for the next big thing. A few people reach the top and start griefing everyone else. Everyone else leaves. The griefers go looking for the next big thing.
From my experience. Yes, yes it happens exactly like that lol.
I was starting to think I was the only one that experienced that.
Funny enough, even today I saw someone say that EQNext needed to be a non-consensual PvP-sandbox game otherwise it was doomed and that PvP-focused games were the future. Thinking about it, maybe it was someone who wanted to see the world burn.
More technical game play descriptions please. TLDR no substance
And this is the ONLY THING MOBA has brought to the genre PvPers. I remember when ANet made a great pvp game then f'ed it up by catering to the pve crowd. Then they made another game all about that, they made millions, so does Miley but her most likable entertaintment comes from her instagram, not her music.
BTW MOBA PvPers no nothing about design, they think stun-lock 2 shot is well thought out game play. Maybe put more than 5 skills on a bar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PS I can't believe you have overwrite enabled on this forum. I just hit crtl+w/e I forget, I haven't seen overwrite since dos.
I wrote and entire essay but I deleted it just to say this. Screw Sony and SOE. After their dreadful PS2 launch (and months post launch) I'll never trust in SONY/SOE again. TBH Sony should look at selling off Playstation while they're at it.
PVP is on the rise? Really? Where? I hope you don't mean AA lol.
Yes; the sheer number of PVP games crashing and burning never ceases to amaze me.
Tons of people join looking for the next big thing. A few people reach the top and start griefing everyone else. Everyone else leaves. The griefers go looking for the next big thing.
From my experience. Yes, yes it happens exactly like that lol.
I was starting to think I was the only one that experienced that.
Funny enough, even today I saw someone say that EQNext needed to be a non-consensual PvP-sandbox game otherwise it was doomed and that PvP-focused games were the future. Thinking about it, maybe it was someone who wanted to see the world burn.
More technical game play descriptions please. TLDR no substance
And this is the ONLY THING MOBA has brought to the genre PvPers. I remember when ANet made a great pvp game then f'ed it up by catering to the pve crowd. Then they made another game all about that, they made millions, so does Miley but her most likable entertaintment comes from her instagram, not her music.
BTW MOBA PvPers no nothing about design, they think stun-lock 2 shot is well thought out game play. Maybe put more than 5 skills on a bar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PS I can't believe you have overwrite enabled on this forum. I just hit crtl+w/e I forget, I haven't seen overwrite since dos.
Hahahahaha. You actually don't KNOW anything about MOBAS.
Vanguard was maybe the most interesting and original thing they have made since Everquest, but the support for the game at all levels and its management were an absolute mess. That game wasn't even given a chance to being good.
SOE did not make Vanguard. That was SIGIL, founded by Brad McQuaid(one of the originators of Everquest).
SOE just saved the game and patched it up. Released a few things of content, but mostly just kept the lights on for the game.
A shame really, there were a lot of good things about that game for its time, but never received the required attention from SOE to really make the game shine. It had loads of potential, but basically kept in the closet.
Never played any EQ games, neiher have any of the dozens of other people I know are as pumped about EQN as I am. Quit speaking for the masses while expressing the words of the minorities. It's disrespectful.
PVP is on the rise? Really? Where? I hope you don't mean AA lol.
Yes; the sheer number of PVP games crashing and burning never ceases to amaze me.
Tons of people join looking for the next big thing. A few people reach the top and start griefing everyone else. Everyone else leaves. The griefers go looking for the next big thing.
From my experience. Yes, yes it happens exactly like that lol.
I was starting to think I was the only one that experienced that.
Funny enough, even today I saw someone say that EQNext needed to be a non-consensual PvP-sandbox game otherwise it was doomed and that PvP-focused games were the future. Thinking about it, maybe it was someone who wanted to see the world burn.
"actually...I feel fine" "I think I could pull through sir"...
SWTOR, a game that many on these forums try to imply is one of the biggest MMO faileurs ever, currently has more players than EQ1 did at its peak...
Implying that there is a large portion of the MMORPG playerbase that wants to see a resurgence of the Everquest franchise, is the bottom 3% here...not the guy stating that most MMORPG players couldn't care less...
Although i might tend to agree,they are a BUSINESS and as i see it,their best chance at profits are the EQ franchise.
However after seeing at least the early success of H1Z1 they might soon realize the market can be played just like everyone is playing it,just toss out a ton of cheap games and pray you get lucky.
If i ran their business as of right now,i would go with the success story H1Z1 and seriously commit all my efforts into it.Why commit a ton of money and resources into Next that MIGHT turn out ok and MIGHT be supported when you already have a game that is winning.
They are about to shoot themselves in the foot though,not a surprise if run by Smedley.They are always about cash shop first game second .../sigh,they already see what i see on Twitch ,BR pvp is 99% of the game so they are going to be charge for tickets to play it.LMAO so much for the heavily used term FREE when you not only bought an unfinished game but have to pay every time you want to play the game's ONLY viable feature.
I think my point is that as long as Smedley is calling the shots,their games have little chance for long term success.Sadly they can get away with tossing these games out early,make a ton of cash before they invest too much money and decide to kill it or go with it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
Well, now wait a minute.
You can't start saying "analysis, look at the facts" when we actually have very few facts.
I'm aware that SOE wasn't making gobs of money but are you actually arguing against an earnings sheet?
Do we know how much money they gained or lost over the past few years?
and of course, the reason I ask is that divisions are sold off all the time even if they are profitable. They might just not be "profitable enough".
Heck, I worked for a company that was profitable but they decided to lay off a percentage of their work force because they didn't grow as much as they thought they would grow. They still grew, they just didn't make projections.
I'm not convinced that they were purchased because of Everquest Next. I do think they missed the boat a bit wit this title as I remember the announcement and it didn't seem the audience was that enthused.
I wouldn't say the title or IP was washed up though.
No one was talking about Fallout and "bam" bethesda made a successful fallout game.
It's not the ip that is having a problem it's how they are working it. At least from where I sit.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
IP's don't get tired. Thats not how an IP works.
The game Everquest *might* be old and tired, but an IP doesn't work that way. The original vehicle for the IP can either be so well made that it just lasts forever (think Lord of the Rings) or it can be kept fresh with lots of new material. Or it can be neither and it gets forgotten.
But ya.. an IP doesn't get old and die. Only the medium.
Waahhhhhh! Someone is playing a game I don't want to play! Mommy, make them stop!!!
Good lord.
Actually they didn't publish Vanguard either Sigil did.
SoE acquired the game, hired some of the ex-Sigil staff (not necessarily for Vanguard) but didn't buy the company - so no liabilities or debts. The game was a mess though in terms of bugs etc. and probably not bringing in a lot of money so probably never got a lot of support. Chicken and egg.
For once, I actually agree with you 100%. The entitlement and selfishness in this thread is revolting.
PVP is on the rise? Really? Where? I hope you don't mean AA lol.
I have nothing against the Voxels or the emergent AI. I can even live with the art. It's the class mechanics and gameplay that have been revealed to date that I disagree with.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
Look up the Walkman ZX2
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
LOL!
I was thinking the same thing when I read this. Maybe he is referring to Crowfall and a few other soon to fail Korean MMOs that are focusing more on PvP, but I don't think an all PvP focused MMO is going to ever be a blockbuster.
Yes; the sheer number of PVP games crashing and burning never ceases to amaze me.
Tons of people join looking for the next big thing. A few people reach the top and start griefing everyone else. Everyone else leaves. The griefers go looking for the next big thing.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
These types of statements are true until they're not. Who would've thought an MMO could ever have 15 million concurrent subs before WoW came along? Nobody, yet it happened anyway.
All we know right now is there's definitely enough PvP loving gamers to make it happen. The trick is just to get them to play MMOs and I'm sure it'll happen...eventually.
From my experience. Yes, yes it happens exactly like that lol.
+1 I'm a big fan of EQ/Vanguard and loved them both,EQN so far has no appeal for me.
Eq offered me a sense of accomplishment and immersion like no other game since. For me, it was never about the lore or even the graphics.
Among my fondest memories....kiting hill giants, camping Jboots, popping that 3rd or even 4th Bard song tick, escorting friends through Kithicor at night, timing my complete heals to avoid a wipe, sending in my rogue to pull corpses from the throne room in LGuk, avoiding the trains in Blackburrow, even losing a level sometimes, and the list goes on.
Everything I did in EQ seemed to have real consequences and required that I was actually paying attention. This is the experience I miss. Now I watch Netflix, skype and follow the news while playing. I still have fun, but its nothing like the intensity I experienced playing EQ.
Games are just getting so easy now. Sure the action is faster paced, the voice overs are cool, the graphics top notch, but that feeling of being afraid of whats behind the corner....gone. And I have been back to EQ fairly recently and while it still has some features I enjoy, it is nothing like the original EQ I fell in love with.
In my perfect world I would love for EQNext to start with a foundation that incorporates all of the things that made EQ so memorable and then build out to include some of the newer innovations. Of course my perfect world also has Jessica Alba on standby so there's that.
Del Cabon
A US Army ('Just Cause') Vet and MMORPG Native formerly of Trinsic, Norath and Dereth. Currently playing LOTRO.
I was starting to think I was the only one that experienced that.
Funny enough, even today I saw someone say that EQNext needed to be a non-consensual PvP-sandbox game otherwise it was doomed and that PvP-focused games were the future. Thinking about it, maybe it was someone who wanted to see the world burn.
More technical game play descriptions please. TLDR no substance
And this is the ONLY THING MOBA has brought to the genre PvPers. I remember when ANet made a great pvp game then f'ed it up by catering to the pve crowd. Then they made another game all about that, they made millions, so does Miley but her most likable entertaintment comes from her instagram, not her music.
BTW MOBA PvPers no nothing about design, they think stun-lock 2 shot is well thought out game play. Maybe put more than 5 skills on a bar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PS I can't believe you have overwrite enabled on this forum. I just hit crtl+w/e I forget, I haven't seen overwrite since dos.
Hahahahaha. You actually don't KNOW anything about MOBAS.
SOE did not make Vanguard. That was SIGIL, founded by Brad McQuaid(one of the originators of Everquest).
SOE just saved the game and patched it up. Released a few things of content, but mostly just kept the lights on for the game.
A shame really, there were a lot of good things about that game for its time, but never received the required attention from SOE to really make the game shine. It had loads of potential, but basically kept in the closet.
Most likely lol.
SWTOR, a game that many on these forums try to imply is one of the biggest MMO faileurs ever, currently has more players than EQ1 did at its peak...
Implying that there is a large portion of the MMORPG playerbase that wants to see a resurgence of the Everquest franchise, is the bottom 3% here...not the guy stating that most MMORPG players couldn't care less...
Although i might tend to agree,they are a BUSINESS and as i see it,their best chance at profits are the EQ franchise.
However after seeing at least the early success of H1Z1 they might soon realize the market can be played just like everyone is playing it,just toss out a ton of cheap games and pray you get lucky.
If i ran their business as of right now,i would go with the success story H1Z1 and seriously commit all my efforts into it.Why commit a ton of money and resources into Next that MIGHT turn out ok and MIGHT be supported when you already have a game that is winning.
They are about to shoot themselves in the foot though,not a surprise if run by Smedley.They are always about cash shop first game second .../sigh,they already see what i see on Twitch ,BR pvp is 99% of the game so they are going to be charge for tickets to play it.LMAO so much for the heavily used term FREE when you not only bought an unfinished game but have to pay every time you want to play the game's ONLY viable feature.
I think my point is that as long as Smedley is calling the shots,their games have little chance for long term success.Sadly they can get away with tossing these games out early,make a ton of cash before they invest too much money and decide to kill it or go with it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.