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Originally posted by FlyByKnight The whole "paid Alpha" thing was a genius idea crafted by some attorney to give developers more ceiling to launch pieces of shit to the general public and not be legally accountable for it... EVER. They get to make money and NEVER be responsible for ANYTHING. Who wouldn't take that deal? The public doesn't have the discipline to do anything about and it you speak out you're accused of having a sense of entitlement. It's the perfect racket.
You're oversimplifying to try and support the agenda. It's not that simple. Developers want feedback and testing. Publishers/developers also need funding. Players want to play and have their feedback heard. Feedback after a development freeze and especially release generally falls on deaf ears until a much later date. They might like the feedback, but there is nothing that can be done after feature freeze and certainly not after release until some later patch. All that takes a lot more time and money than if it were done much earlier in the development lifecycle. That is true of every single software project in existence, not just games and mmos.
So now we have a situation where developers can get earlier feedback, add funding to the game, and allow interested gamers to participate in that process. Those who don't like that environment are warned not to participate. Those who can handle that can participate if they want to.
They are responsible and keep updating and making changes. The latest round of changes aren't popular obviously with those that wanted ezmode weapons, but they are changes. They could be gathering metrics based on those changes to see how the game plays. That is what those people signed up for. They didn't sign up for a game in release state. So the player should give their feedback and say why they don't like the change. That is perfectly acceptable. The ridiculous part starts in with the nerd-rage and the ranting and the crying foul about spending money, scams, and ultimatums.
The does have the discipline and those that don't shouldn't create an environment where the rest of us are robbed of our decision making ability and choice. Speaking out about the change is perfectly acceptable and encouraged. Ranting about what one is entitled to because they paid some money is not.
Originally posted by nilden I can just youtube a video of it.
A 2+ week old video of the initial alpha implementation for a system that was modified within the following day to no longer function as shown in that video.
Nice evidence there, slick. Well played.
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Originally posted by Tinybina Lets start with number 1, they were very vague about "Loot spawn adjustments" but it seems that their version of "Loot spawn adjustments" was making it so that hardly any GUNS spawn in game....
What's wrong with this? You didnt knew that this was the plan? They told us that guns were going to be rare unlike every other survival zombie way before the game hit EA on steam.. They told us that the majority of the time, you'll be stuck with melee weapons.
Originally posted by Kost Originally posted by nilden I can just youtube a video of it.
Shows the state SOE let people buy these things in and get guns pretty clearly doesn't it.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
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Originally posted by Ridelynn Originally posted by Torvaldr Originally posted by olepi If other businesses start using the "beta" flag:
The funny part - both of you are making the same point, just coming at it from different directions. And it's a very valid point, I agree with it entirely.
Except we're not really saying the same thing. The product isn't advertised as a complete product. The product is advertised as in development and subject to change. The end product will provide access to the game at no charge. People are paying for access to test and feedback changes, not a complete product in its final state. The label clearly says, don't buy it if you don't want to do this. People that buy in and then cry foul should be called out and taken to task for it. They essentially want to ensure the rest of us can't have nice things.
Originally posted by nilden Originally posted by Kost Originally posted by nilden I can just youtube a video of it.
Isn't that the point of this sort of thing? Try stuff out, see what works, what doesn't, and then try and figure out how it should be changed? That's the entire reason for buying into this sort of stuff.
Originally posted by Torvaldr Originally posted by nilden Originally posted by Kost Originally posted by nilden I can just youtube a video of it.
Pretty sure they could have tested airdrops without charging people for them.
Originally posted by nilden Originally posted by Torvaldr Originally posted by nilden Originally posted by Kost Originally posted by nilden I can just youtube a video of it.
actually they gave airdrops out to everyone the first few days...
there's not supposed to be a lot of guns or loot in this game ... this game is a survival game not a FPS shooter with gathering and zombies in the background.
as for the furnaces ... omg something doesn't work in an alpha game say it aint so.
to the people who are saying "oh you paid for the game and theres a cash shop this is not an alpha/beta". I say you need to get with the times lots of games are doing this now a days hell i can name 5 games off the top of my head that are in development right now or in the past where you could buy your way into alpha/beta and they have a full cash shop.
its just the way of things and you need to get with the times.
Originally posted by randomt Dunno 'bout furnaces but there ain't supposed to be easy guns in this game, they are supposed to be very rare.. Good for them for fixing that and boohoo to all the people crying nerf! because the easy weapons are now not so easy
Umm you forgot the one little tidbit >>>CASH SHOP.SO now if they make them even more rare it just sort of pushes the cash shop that much more.I would bet most of the guns in game are already there because of the cash shop.Smed was deff lying because i watched several streams and every single one that went cash shop got a gun,every time.Have a few thousand like that and the game has more guns that it should have,so much for survival gaming.
Personally the design is down right retarded,a survival game,then why are guns spawn out of thin air?Once you go that route,might as well have Helicopters spawn and cars and boats and geesh how about Nuclear weapons as well.
To support the design which is SUPPOSE to be SURVIVAL there should be ZERO cash shop interference and ZERO spawn items out of thin air.Players should have to make everything themselves.
Now if SOE had any creativity at all,they could have patrol points,outposts scattered around the game world that players can try and overthrow to get more powerful items and supplies,however these would be decently fortified of course.That would most definitely happen in an APOC world,there would be bands of people forming stations/outposts.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Originally posted by nilden Originally posted by Vesavius Originally posted by Tinybina I won't even get into the Airdrop fiasco...
The 'fiasco' was just a creation of internet hive mind histrionics.
MMORPGers just love to jump aboard the drama train and get outraged. Any shallow reason will do to be mortally offended. The airdrops were a perfect case in point of that. It was embarrassing to watch tbh.
Yeah it's just a creation of internet hive minds! Not like SOE is selling a chance at in game guns for real life money. I mean straight up Pay 2 Win is just a...
My case in point.
Originally posted by tawess Originally posted by mrneurosis Originally posted by tawess Originally posted by mrneurosishining above your head do you need someone to tell you it is a day time? SOE is authority i understand that. They are coding the game i know that too. However, now days alpha and beta tags are nothing more than semantics. Once you start charging people for full game and fully functional cash shop... don't get panties in a bunch if people complain and criticise the game.
Ah... But that is the key is it not....
They are neither charging for a full game not is the cash shop close to being fully functional... In fact it is barley more functional then the game... Yes you can buy stuff in it... But the selection of goods as.. well lacking..
Also they are charging you for access to a early build of the game... Not a full game... In fact the full game will be free... So by that logic you are paying a fee to offset the costs of servers and extra QA needed to test and verify the bugs found by said players....
And i have no problem with people being critical of the game... But i do feel a slight annoyance when people do it from a standpoint that is up the wall... Well.. you know... Like you are doing now....
As i said... We can argue if they should have sold early access to a F2P game... I have no problem with that... And we can argue if perhaps the airdrops should have been toned down before said EA opened....
But you can not argue that the game was sold as a early access game and thus is in-complete.
Up the wall? if i feel no need to defend SOE and the whole 'air drop' fiasco doesn't mean i am making a standpoint from up the wall.
The way they are running some of the things in game got nothing to do with alpha or beta state of the game. fact is that once people invest money into something or buy a product they feel entitled as a customer. It is very easy to avoid a situation like this..'Don't sell your alphas'.
But that would be too damn logical thing to do in todays age where money comes first in everything.
Well you was the one to claimed it was charging for a full game... Not me.. So yes.. you are up the wall... like it or not.
As for not selling alpha... I agree the more correct erm is beta... the game is feature enabled enough to warrant that label... But hey i am not the with the power to lable things.. so i go by what the developers said.. again.. not my game... I can call the stages of my game what i want and so can they...
But "not selling alpha" is well... Not very valid... A: they need the extra hands and feet to pound the game... After all Ubisoft have shown what happens when you don´t and back when i started doing beta testeing.. you paid too... Ok most of that cost was SnH for physical disks but it still sort of apply here...
And to be fair i think that SOE don´t give a *bleeep* what you or i think in the long run. But that is not going to stop me from trying to introduce some semblance of sanity in to especially this affair... Because it blew up and out of proportion so fast that not even the anchorman meme is good enough,
And if we are speaking of logical... you ask SOE to be logical... Me... I turn to the howling mob and ask the same thing... Even if i know the futility of it... Because the logical response to the first day in H1Z1 would have been a well put together post on the subject and then doing something else until the overstressed servers stopped melting....
Let´s be polite and say that above scenario did not take place.... And since i do like to keep my account i am not going to give my un-filtered view o how much of the people who posted on that day behaved. Not everybody.. there was others who like me took a more balanced view of it on both sides... But we where a minority... a small minority.
So why should different rules apply to customer and developer...?
Yes it is all players fault right? this is what i am talking about. Why most of you feel such sympathy and need to defend SOE and other companies for such actions is beyond me. i din't know if the company employees themselves would bother to defend them selves so agressively.
I don't know if devs from MMO companies read these forums often but boy if they do.. they must feel really happy that people like you are doing the job of their PR and community representative for free.
I will never be able to wrap my mind around the reasons behind players aggressive defense of companies they have zero association with.
As far as charging for the full game. it is going to be free at release and since it has no set box price so anything they charge for alpha is 'the full price'. And no their cash ship isn't marginally more function than the game itself. if you have played the game you would know that their cash shop is more stable and works lot better than the entire game.
No wonder whole MMO scene is going to s*** nowdays. No one is allowed to criticise anything and as long as people like you keep patting backs of companies like SOE they will continue to push limits with their cash shop and ways to go deeper into players pocket . Instead of pushing limits in terms of making better and more innovative games.
Originally posted by cheyane If they have a operational cash shop during alpha and the game is in alpha why do people spend money and then whine. Were you deceived into thinking it was not alpha ? Why complain when they are clearly testing and you paid to be testers. Gotta love these gullible people.
You're reading it incorrectly. People are debating the principle of it, as am I. It's not, "I did this and have buyer's remorse". I genuinely feel the companies are being wrong to customers to even have this option.
I just typed out 2 long paragraphs and deleted it, realizing I've harped on it enough in the last couple days.
Paid alpha is nonsense and it's not right in principle before it gets to the point of "buyer beware". I'll take a break from the argument awhile, as much as it bothers me.