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How soon before launch should early access/paid beta be applied?

BattlerockBattlerock Member CommonPosts: 1,393
What's your take on that? I think beta should mean the game will launch within three months and early access / alpha should be one year max. What do you think? I feel like there needs to be some accountability, some incentives that just are not in place once alpha early access and beta and founder packs have peaked.

Comments

  • GruntyGrunty Member EpicPosts: 8,657
    Never
    "I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone.  It's not.  The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone."  Robin Williams
  • BattlerockBattlerock Member CommonPosts: 1,393
    Originally posted by Grunty

    Never

     

    I don't think it's going to go away, but from a fair and moral obligation to the industry, what are some legitimate timeliness? We can't just keep cutting each others throats.
  • GruntyGrunty Member EpicPosts: 8,657
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    Originally posted by Grunty
    Never

     

    I don't think it's going to go away, but from a fair and moral obligation to the industry, what are some legitimate timeliness? We can't just keep cutting each others throats.

    Who is cutting each other's throat?  I'm not. Paying a company to help test their product for them is idiotic.

    "I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone.  It's not.  The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone."  Robin Williams
  • BattlerockBattlerock Member CommonPosts: 1,393
    Originally posted by Grunty

    Originally posted by Battlerock
    Originally posted by Grunty
    Never

     

    I don't think it's going to go away, but from a fair and moral obligation to the industry, what are some legitimate timeliness? We can't just keep cutting each others throats.

    Who is cutting each other's throat?  I'm not. Paying a company to help test their product for them is idiotic.

     

    Ok that's your opinion, but let's say it's going to stay, or you see that it is not idiotic, how would you like it to be implemented?
  • ghorgosghorgos Member UncommonPosts: 191

    If a company realy thinks it is worth it they could start by giving access to concept phase material and start selling stuff from the very beginning of development. It is still the players decission to buy or wait and it actualy means that all players get more information about a game before it releases.

     

    The no-go for me comes with beneftis that are still in effect after release or if that early-access is used to make certain editions more expensive.

     

  • dave6660dave6660 Member UncommonPosts: 2,699
    They found the perfect cop out with "early access".  The game barely works, don't blame us it's early access.  It wouldn't surprise me to see games stay in this phase for longer and longer periods.   Players are buying into it hook, line and sinker.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • BattlerockBattlerock Member CommonPosts: 1,393
    Originally posted by dave6660

    They found the perfect cop out with "early access".  The game barely works, don't blame us it's early access.  It wouldn't surprise me to see games stay in this phase for longer and longer periods.   Players are buying into it hook, line and sinker.

     

    That is true,and what appears to be happening, is that the games peak relevance happens while it is still in a beta state, they aren't getting a fair chance, marketing is jumping the gun and I the games are getting passed by before they can really get a shot to put their best foot forwar, often one shot is all yyou get.
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 8,541
    Just as soon as invites used to go out for unpaid beta. I have tested more games then I can count over the 16 years I have been MMOing. Early access means a not fully functioning game with bugs. If you are willing to pay to get into a beta program, you have no right to cry about it. All comes down to when the devs need data of people playing their game. Thats what testing means, pay for it or its free. I personally think they should start adding NDAs to paid betas. Should stop the number of cry babies. 
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    1-4 days early access is fine as long as it doesn't cost extra.

    It is also fine to let people who pre order get access to the stress test betawhich usually is 1-3 weekends or a week soon before launch.

    Any more than that is a misstake, it is important to find dedicated beta testers that are in for making the game better and not just expecting a good time and a finnished product.

  • PulsarManPulsarMan Member Posts: 289

    The correct answer is: As soon as people seem willing to pay for it.

    When should someone buy into Early Access? Never. Unless you're happily willing to write that money off as a loss and refrain from bitching all over the internet that it's someone else's fault that you spent your hard earned dollars on an incomplete idea. 

    Use your brain. Even a developer of the highest pedigree with the best of intentions cannot predict how a product will turn out. Their "promises" are little more than their own personal desires for their specific product. But personal wants are often left on the cutting room floor due to time, money, and the sad fact that good ideas are often shit when put into practice. 

    Extreme cases of "Early Access" will probably never go away. Do yourself a favor, and know what you're getting into before you spend the money.

  • GruntyGrunty Member EpicPosts: 8,657
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    Originally posted by Grunty
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    Originally posted by Grunty
    Never

     

    I don't think it's going to go away, but from a fair and moral obligation to the industry, what are some legitimate timeliness? We can't just keep cutting each others throats.

    Who is cutting each other's throat?  I'm not. Paying a company to help test their product for them is idiotic.

     

    Ok that's your opinion, but let's say it's going to stay, or you see that it is not idiotic, how would you like it to be implemented?

    Answering those questions would negate my previous answer. That answer remains as it is. Never.

    "I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone.  It's not.  The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone."  Robin Williams
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Originally posted by Grunty
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    Originally posted by Grunty
    Never

     

    I don't think it's going to go away, but from a fair and moral obligation to the industry, what are some legitimate timeliness? We can't just keep cutting each others throats.

    Who is cutting each other's throat?  I'm not. Paying a company to help test their product for them is idiotic.

    *yawn* such a tired argument. If the number of people who paid for alpha, beta, or early access were actually testing, we'd have some of the best quality games on the market! Shoot, even if they were just monkeys and were pounding on keyboards they'd probably find more bugs than what are generally reported in a paid beta/alpha cycle. People pay, log in, fart around for a bit, then basically say "eff this, what a piece of crap" and are never to be seen again, until launch. Ask any developer about the level of participation in paid betas, it's abysmal. 

     

    However, I don't totally disagree with your original answer of "Never". I'd rather see crowdsourcing projects with value-added items or XP bonuses, or in-game items over early access. Either that or give beta/alpha access, but boot people from it if they aren't contributing. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • GruntyGrunty Member EpicPosts: 8,657
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Grunty
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    Originally posted by Grunty
    Never

     

    I don't think it's going to go away, but from a fair and moral obligation to the industry, what are some legitimate timeliness? We can't just keep cutting each others throats.

    Who is cutting each other's throat?  I'm not. Paying a company to help test their product for them is idiotic.

    *yawn* such a tired argument. If the number of people who paid for alpha, beta, or early access were actually testing, we'd have some of the best quality games on the market! Shoot, even if they were just monkeys and were pounding on keyboards they'd probably find more bugs than what are generally reported in a paid beta/alpha cycle. People pay, log in, fart around for a bit, then basically say "eff this, what a piece of crap" and are never to be seen again, until launch. Ask any developer about the level of participation in paid betas, it's abysmal. 

    Talking about a tired argument.

    "I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone.  It's not.  The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone."  Robin Williams
  • GitmixGitmix Member UncommonPosts: 603
  • BattlerockBattlerock Member CommonPosts: 1,393
    Originally posted by Grunty

    Originally posted by Battlerock
    Originally posted by Grunty
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    Originally posted by Grunty
    Never

     

    I don't think it's going to go away, but from a fair and moral obligation to the industry, what are some legitimate timeliness? We can't just keep cutting each others throats.

    Who is cutting each other's throat?  I'm not. Paying a company to help test their product for them is idiotic.

     

    Ok that's your opinion, but let's say it's going to stay, or you see that it is not idiotic, how would you like it to be implemented?

    Answering those questions would negate my previous answer. That answer remains as it is. Never.

     

    Ok that is just fine. I know there are many people not cut out for thinking outside of the box, it's part of societies norms. Thank you for the input regardless.
  • GruntyGrunty Member EpicPosts: 8,657
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    Originally posted by Grunty
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    Originally posted by Grunty
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    Originally posted by Grunty
    Never

     

    I don't think it's going to go away, but from a fair and moral obligation to the industry, what are some legitimate timeliness? We can't just keep cutting each others throats.

    Who is cutting each other's throat?  I'm not. Paying a company to help test their product for them is idiotic.

     

    Ok that's your opinion, but let's say it's going to stay, or you see that it is not idiotic, how would you like it to be implemented?

    Answering those questions would negate my previous answer. That answer remains as it is. Never.

     

    Ok that is just fine. I know there are many people not cut out for thinking outside of the box, it's part of societies norms. Thank you for the input regardless.

    What box? The box you want to limit my thought within? Those are your boundaries not mine.

    "I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone.  It's not.  The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone."  Robin Williams
  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    Early access should be 5 day, pre-pay. Beta should be free, but require contributing posts in a beta forum, wherein immaterial posts are deleted and the player banned. If you can't post something constructive as feedback, even if it's negative, you don't belong in a beta. Alpha, no one but in-house testing should see. There should always be a complete server wipe and reset before early access.
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    What's your take on that? I think beta should mean the game will launch within three months and early access / alpha should be one year max. What do you think? I feel like there needs to be some accountability, some incentives that just are not in place once alpha early access and beta and founder packs have peaked.

    Companies are going to offer their products and services at the price point and time that the consumer is most inclined to pay for them. In light of that, the best way to change when and how companies charge for their game is to change when and how the consumer wants to pay for them.

    Do you disagree?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Originally posted by Grunty
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Grunty
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    Originally posted by Grunty
    Never

     

    I don't think it's going to go away, but from a fair and moral obligation to the industry, what are some legitimate timeliness? We can't just keep cutting each others throats.

    Who is cutting each other's throat?  I'm not. Paying a company to help test their product for them is idiotic.

    *yawn* such a tired argument. If the number of people who paid for alpha, beta, or early access were actually testing, we'd have some of the best quality games on the market! Shoot, even if they were just monkeys and were pounding on keyboards they'd probably find more bugs than what are generally reported in a paid beta/alpha cycle. People pay, log in, fart around for a bit, then basically say "eff this, what a piece of crap" and are never to be seen again, until launch. Ask any developer about the level of participation in paid betas, it's abysmal. 

    Talking about a tired argument.

    Tired? I think that we need to have more discussion about monkeys. I mean if we'd only pay closer attention to Planet of the Apes, we'd realize how the human race is going to end. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • BattlerockBattlerock Member CommonPosts: 1,393
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by Battle rock Young >
    What's your take on that? I think beta should mean the game will launch within three months and early access should be one year max. What do you think? I feel like there needs to be some accountability, some incentives that just are not in place once alpha early access and beta and founder packs have peaked.

    Companies are going to offer their products and services at the price point and time that the consumer is most inclined to pay for them. In light of that, the best way to change when and how companies charge for their game is to change when and how the consumer wants to pay for them.

    Do you disagree?

     

    I do not. So the question is how do you shape the culture to make the purchases at an optimal time? You can try direct education, I don't believe in that to much when it comes to video games especially, I believe more in the indirect route of creating a culture with more of a questioning attitude, with the idea that thought will prevail over impulse.
  • JaedorJaedor Member UncommonPosts: 1,173

    I'm kind of old school on this, but to me:

    - alpha = creating/revising essential systems
    - beta = essential systems are done


    Once a system is in place (whether alpha or beta), all the other dependencies can roll out. Some companies roll out everything at once, then have to change everything with a system revision. Lately, I've seen slower rollouts of systems, which means changes to the dependencies are fewer, shallower and thus faster.


    I think paid access can happen in alpha or pre-alpha, but should come with an NDA and lots of caveats. SOE handled the alpha rollout pretty well with Landmark, though there wasn't an NDA.

  • nbtscannbtscan Member UncommonPosts: 862
    Early access shouldn't be available until the game is somewhere between two weeks to a month away from launching.  I've been part of the test phase from Alpha to launch of a game, and I actually did was a tester was supposed to do:  find bugs in the game and report them.  Closed beta and open beta are glorified stress tests that iron out any remaining bugs and test the capacity of their servers, and even then this data can be erroneous based on a miscalculation of how many people will cram your servers on launch day.
  • NyghthowlerNyghthowler Member UncommonPosts: 369
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Grunty
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Grunty
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    Originally posted by Grunty
    Never

     

    I don't think it's going to go away, but from a fair and moral obligation to the industry, what are some legitimate timeliness? We can't just keep cutting each others throats.

    Who is cutting each other's throat?  I'm not. Paying a company to help test their product for them is idiotic.

    *yawn* such a tired argument. If the number of people who paid for alpha, beta, or early access were actually testing, we'd have some of the best quality games on the market! Shoot, even if they were just monkeys and were pounding on keyboards they'd probably find more bugs than what are generally reported in a paid beta/alpha cycle. People pay, log in, fart around for a bit, then basically say "eff this, what a piece of crap" and are never to be seen again, until launch. Ask any developer about the level of participation in paid betas, it's abysmal. 

    Talking about a tired argument.

    Tired? I think that we need to have more discussion about monkeys. I mean if we'd only pay closer attention to Planet of the Apes, we'd realize how the human race is going to end. 

    And this is how the world ends

    And this is how the world ends

    And this is how the world ends

    Not with a bang, but a whimper

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