I would rather they keep the 10% extra xp. I'm already 2 levels higher then the beginning quests in the next zone as I progress simply from doing every quest in the previous zone. I don't want to out level the game play.
I would rather receive 20% or 25% extra coin, and even that wouldn't be much advantage because zone mobs drop 2 or 3 gp a kill IF they drop cash. Named mobs in dungeons drop 30 to 35 gp. Even treasure chests, which you have to luck out and find the map for, only reward 30 or so gp.
some ppl just assume that a game is f2p or b2p with any kind of cash shop its gonna be "p2w" they will beat their head on a corned of a brick wall and still wont understand what p2w is..
Originally posted by doodphace As long as everyone is on a even level at endgame, no matter how much money they sink into the game, its not P2W....the only thing that would concern me in that list, is the 10% gold increase.
Yes but the guys playing for free are going to be at a disadvantage-- they can't earn champion points or gold as fast.
1500 crowns at the start of each 30-day membership period
Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership
Exclusive character progression bonuses for the duration of membership
10% bonus to experience point gain
Don't know about you but this looks way worse than offering an exclusive horse with an imperial edition.
Smell like P2W to you?
actually bonus for exp is not pay to win at all.
BUT in your post there is something worst, pay to access ... So the game will become f2p ? or it will be b2p with this barrier for those who wont keep on membership ?
10% gold increase is just for monster drops/world stuff like chests, etc. Obviously you aren't going to get 10% more gold when you sell an item in a guild store. Which is where you'd be making most of your gold anyways, trading and selling. As for the other stuff, not a big deal at all. It's just a small boost to get people to endgame faster. Plenty of games have xp boosts, etc. It's not P2W. People need to learn the definition of P2W. LOTRO is a good example of this. You have to pay to buy classes on creep side, then you have to pay for skills because it takes forever to rank up. Then there's boosts to get more PvP points so you can buy gear. On freep side, you can't even PvP unless you are capped and subscribed VIP. You also have to buy skill/trait slots, on top of having to buy quest packs so you can level. That's a pay2win game, please learn the difference.
Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim
''Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership''
I would consider that worse than the boosts. What this means is unknown right now, but content shouldn't be gated in this manner. That kind of thing should be reserved for an expansion only.
''Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership''
I would consider that worse than the boosts. What this means is unknown right now, but content shouldn't be gated in this manner. That kind of thing should be reserved for an expansion only.
Unknown? It has already been explained.
The entire base game along with 1.6 will come with the game purchase. That is a huge amount of content.. The DLC they decide to release later on will each cost money OR you can have a sub and get them all. Pretty obvious and it isnt bad at all.
Originally posted by superconducting Originally posted by DomotoThis is not P2W, it's pay for convenience. Leveling faster because you are subbed is not winning because you payed money. You are not getting anything someone else cannot just because you paid money. Also, saying *BURIED IN THE FAQ* is misleading, and comes off as stirring shit up. The day they announced it, of the 4 or so places I saw the announcement, the terms of continuing a sub was there, including at XP bonus. I don't play this game, and most likely won't but is this really necessary?
I don't consider it just convenience.
After the champion system rolls out, experience past level 50 is supposed to mean something. More champion points into your char makes you stronger.
If you have a guy who can do it faster, then yes, I DO see that as a clear advantage. It is not just a "convenience".
nah, its 100% convenience.
simply having an advantage because you level faster does not = pay to win. being able to buy items to make your character more powerful, that's pay to win and i really don't see where the confusion comes from.
It's not pay to win, you either pay your sub and get xp bonuses and some gold, or choose to more tightly control your money and buy stuff like xp bonuses when you want them, or option 3 you freeload on the server and pay nothing - in which case you get free access to the game with a couple minor disadvantages. for a new player option 3 looks amazing, for vets it's up to you.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
For me, at least - P2W is a paying player having an advantage that a non-playing player absolutely cannot get, or is so rare/difficult to obtain that it's effectively non-obtainable.
10% bonus - that's a time advantage. They aren't saying F2P players can't earn XP, Gold, Champion points, whatever - they are just saying it will take them longer.
That's a pretty traditional F2P model - usually it's in the form of purchasable XP/Gold/whatever boost buffs. Time is usually the most valuable commodity you can have on a cash shop.
They haven't denied the free player anything - I don't see it as P2W. And at 10%, that's not even a huge margin. A lot of F2P schemes are upwards of 50%-100%, and while I'm not countering my own argument, at that pace a free member really does feel like they are playing a different game entirely because of the drastic differences in game pacing.
Had this been posted... oh lets say somewhere between 1997-2005... then yes I would say that most people would consider this to be pay to win. Nowadays? Not so much. There has been quite a shift on what people consider to be P2W. Pay to advance? Yes. Pay to win? No.
Yes that useless horse was P2w and Imperial race but for some reason I seen only few Imperials Mostly Kajits Altmers Redguard for great passives ....
And Imperial horse was P2w even thou at lvl 30 you buy one for 42k much more better .....
Yes and now it op Especialy + 10 % to gold considering that mobs drop gold liek 10 9 gold yeah 10 % is very significant ....
Sarcasm
Yes from new account anlike DMK who troll thi swebsite common fose get banned for not supporting the mainstream...
P2W definition isn't set in stone by the way. this whole thing is very subjective and vary from person to person. I don't know why people get so upset at something so subjective.
Yes that useless horse was P2w and Imperial race but for some reason I seen only few Imperials Mostly Kajits Altmers Redguard for great passives ....
And Imperial horse was P2w even thou at lvl 30 you buy one for 42k much more better .....
Yes and now it op Especialy + 10 % to gold considering that mobs drop gold liek 10 9 gold yeah 10 % is very significant ....
Sarcasm
Yes from new account anlike DMK who troll thi swebsite common fose get banned for not supporting the mainstream...
P2W definition isn't set in stone by the way. this whole thing is very subjective and vary from person to person. I don't know why people get so upset at something so subjective.
Wrong P2w was set in stone years ago
Silkroad buy 10 buffs with wich you 1 shoot bosses
Buy enchanting stone thant to crack break items
Buy 999999 potion while in game potions cost almost 90 % of grind you do I used to grind 4 h and all gold made was going into potion and repair
all was made so that you cant play wihtout shop
Or allods were last rune necessery to suvive and kill lates bosses required rune from cash shop that could cost you up to a million rubles
This is pay to win
some vanity or shit like horse that cost 16k gold in gme a vanity pet ? Is P2w ? people are jsut jelly over this it isn't P2w in anyway
Or 10 % buffs LOL
1 point in new system 200k exp mobs drop like 100 200 now + 10 % OP!!..... say thnaks are people that pay sub for thsi useless buffs and keep game floating
or 10 % to gold mobs drop 10 15 gold +10 %? OP
Let's be serious those who complain now aren't the smartest people ...
If there is some one to complain well it subscribers like my self who bought several account and kept subed....
also payed for game that promised content and now they decided to make it DLC well this is a good reason to complain not for some 10 % buff
Problem is you are comparing the MMO which were made ground up to be cash shop heavy F2P games with the current breed of MMOS which make switch half way through to B2P/F2P from P2P model.
That is why you won't ever get two people to agree on same definition of P2W because it isn't clear and cut and never was. How do you even win in a MMO? even if take example of Silkroad Online what are you winning exactly? how can you win something which is an ever going process?
If only people stop taking P2W so literally there would be less bickering. Just like how people cling to literal meaning of WOW clone even though knowing very well the context it is being used in.
So nope P2W was never set in stone because MMOS are not single player games with a definite end and beginning.
I always associated "pay to win" directly witn PvP. Where you actually could beat another person or people by simply spending real life cash to boost yourself. Be it potions, stats, armor etc. Even if said items were also in the game. Some people justify it by saying as long as its not best in slot it doesnt count as pay to win. But if less than 1% of the game population has said best in slot (gotten in game) and stuff you can buy is better than everything else then that is borderline as well.
But in PvE games the more you gain the less you lose. Why do you think people quit MMOs? Because they each a goal or goals in the game and any new goals that might be there they dont care about or find too daunting. So while it is possible to 'win' at PvE (by doing all the quests, achievements, goals, reputations, whatever) most people dont bother or are too lazy. There just arent a lot of 'completionists' playing MMOs anymore.
But the morphing was predictable. Not everyone can play a video game 8-10 hours a day and pump time into it like that. Some people have more money than time, and the more 'stuff' an MMO has ot do the more likely it will be to offer time saving aspects. So while playing the game should be the 'reward' some people want to actually progress, and do what people might call 'end game'. (WoW was the game that introduced that mentality).
But the people who just want to play, save a little time and arent worried what you can do at max level are the ones who enjoy MMOs the most. Basically anyone NOT posting on forums fall into that category and theyre the vast majority of people.
1500 crowns at the start of each 30-day membership period
Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership
Exclusive character progression bonuses for the duration of membership
10% bonus to experience point gain
10% bonus to crafting research
10% bonus to crafting inspiration gain
10% bonus to gold acquisition
90-day Membership:
4500 crowns at the start of each 90-day membership period
Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership
Exclusive character progression bonuses for the duration of membership
10% bonus to experience point gain
10% bonus to crafting research
10% bonus to crafting inspiration gain
10% bonus to gold acquisition
180-day Membership:
9000 crowns at the start of each 180-day membership period
Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership
Exclusive character progression bonuses for the duration of membership
10% bonus to experience point gain
10% bonus to crafting research
10% bonus to crafting inspiration gain
10% bonus to gold acquisition
Don't know about you but this looks way worse than offering an exclusive horse with an imperial edition.
Smell like P2W to you?
10% boost to exp is not even close to P2W. If they granted stat boost then yes it would be but it is not. Fro mwaht i read the XP rate will be the same subs will jsut get SLIGHTLY more. SWTOR/Tera/Rift AND game with a sub and f2p(B2P) option has this 10% xp..some even have 50-100% xp boost.
free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!
But if you get items with better stats that is not obtainable to a none sub player then yes then you can say its P2W.
10% boost is nothing to whine about if it wont make any difference in playing field only you need to spend alittle extra time in a game you enjoy playing and thats bad how?
Actually until VR exp boost is an overkill because I was always out leveling quests to grey levels 1-50. 10% to gold isn't any problem either because it's easy to get enough gold in ESO and after buying 42k horse there's little to spend it on other than bank space or alts because you can craft good gear yourself. So this is definitely not P2W.
Comments
I would rather they keep the 10% extra xp. I'm already 2 levels higher then the beginning quests in the next zone as I progress simply from doing every quest in the previous zone. I don't want to out level the game play.
I would rather receive 20% or 25% extra coin, and even that wouldn't be much advantage because zone mobs drop 2 or 3 gp a kill IF they drop cash. Named mobs in dungeons drop 30 to 35 gp. Even treasure chests, which you have to luck out and find the map for, only reward 30 or so gp.
some ppl just assume that a game is f2p or b2p with any kind of cash shop its gonna be "p2w" they will beat their head on a corned of a brick wall and still wont understand what p2w is..
AGREED "NO,THAT ISNT P2W"
I only have a problem with these kind of boosts when they also nerf the xp gain at the same time.
Anyways is this new system going to be even more of a grind than the VR ? and hs xp improved in RVR / PVP yet ?
They are playing for free....Are you serious?
actually bonus for exp is not pay to win at all.
BUT in your post there is something worst, pay to access ... So the game will become f2p ? or it will be b2p with this barrier for those who wont keep on membership ?
Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim
...just about everything.
Which is why I so rarely bother to read, let alone post, on these forums.
''Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership''
I would consider that worse than the boosts. What this means is unknown right now, but content shouldn't be gated in this manner. That kind of thing should be reserved for an expansion only.
Unknown? It has already been explained.
The entire base game along with 1.6 will come with the game purchase. That is a huge amount of content.. The DLC they decide to release later on will each cost money OR you can have a sub and get them all. Pretty obvious and it isnt bad at all.
After the champion system rolls out, experience past level 50 is supposed to mean something. More champion points into your char makes you stronger.
If you have a guy who can do it faster, then yes, I DO see that as a clear advantage. It is not just a "convenience".
nah, its 100% convenience.
simply having an advantage because you level faster does not = pay to win. being able to buy items to make your character more powerful, that's pay to win and i really don't see where the confusion comes from.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I didn't read all pages of posts here, but...
For me, at least - P2W is a paying player having an advantage that a non-playing player absolutely cannot get, or is so rare/difficult to obtain that it's effectively non-obtainable.
10% bonus - that's a time advantage. They aren't saying F2P players can't earn XP, Gold, Champion points, whatever - they are just saying it will take them longer.
That's a pretty traditional F2P model - usually it's in the form of purchasable XP/Gold/whatever boost buffs. Time is usually the most valuable commodity you can have on a cash shop.
They haven't denied the free player anything - I don't see it as P2W. And at 10%, that's not even a huge margin. A lot of F2P schemes are upwards of 50%-100%, and while I'm not countering my own argument, at that pace a free member really does feel like they are playing a different game entirely because of the drastic differences in game pacing.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
P2W definition isn't set in stone by the way. this whole thing is very subjective and vary from person to person. I don't know why people get so upset at something so subjective.
Problem is you are comparing the MMO which were made ground up to be cash shop heavy F2P games with the current breed of MMOS which make switch half way through to B2P/F2P from P2P model.
That is why you won't ever get two people to agree on same definition of P2W because it isn't clear and cut and never was. How do you even win in a MMO? even if take example of Silkroad Online what are you winning exactly? how can you win something which is an ever going process?
If only people stop taking P2W so literally there would be less bickering. Just like how people cling to literal meaning of WOW clone even though knowing very well the context it is being used in.
So nope P2W was never set in stone because MMOS are not single player games with a definite end and beginning.
So much for B2P, looks like subscription model + box price still and I just had added it to my Steam wishlist !
I always associated "pay to win" directly witn PvP. Where you actually could beat another person or people by simply spending real life cash to boost yourself. Be it potions, stats, armor etc. Even if said items were also in the game. Some people justify it by saying as long as its not best in slot it doesnt count as pay to win. But if less than 1% of the game population has said best in slot (gotten in game) and stuff you can buy is better than everything else then that is borderline as well.
But in PvE games the more you gain the less you lose. Why do you think people quit MMOs? Because they each a goal or goals in the game and any new goals that might be there they dont care about or find too daunting. So while it is possible to 'win' at PvE (by doing all the quests, achievements, goals, reputations, whatever) most people dont bother or are too lazy. There just arent a lot of 'completionists' playing MMOs anymore.
But the morphing was predictable. Not everyone can play a video game 8-10 hours a day and pump time into it like that. Some people have more money than time, and the more 'stuff' an MMO has ot do the more likely it will be to offer time saving aspects. So while playing the game should be the 'reward' some people want to actually progress, and do what people might call 'end game'. (WoW was the game that introduced that mentality).
But the people who just want to play, save a little time and arent worried what you can do at max level are the ones who enjoy MMOs the most. Basically anyone NOT posting on forums fall into that category and theyre the vast majority of people.
10% boost to exp is not even close to P2W. If they granted stat boost then yes it would be but it is not. Fro mwaht i read the XP rate will be the same subs will jsut get SLIGHTLY more. SWTOR/Tera/Rift AND game with a sub and f2p(B2P) option has this 10% xp..some even have 50-100% xp boost.
free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!
Click here for trove referral, bonuses to both!
P2W??
None sub player kills a mob gain 10xp and 10g
A sub player kills same mob gain 11%xp and 11g
How much win is that really?.
But if you get items with better stats that is not obtainable to a none sub player then yes then you can say its P2W.
10% boost is nothing to whine about if it wont make any difference in playing field only you need to spend alittle extra time in a game you enjoy playing and thats bad how?
If 10% is considered pay to win then GW2 is heavy play to win.