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Is WoW going to be the last P2P MMO?

fivorothfivoroth Member UncommonPosts: 3,916

Is WoW going to be the last P2P MMO? It seems WoW is the only game that can make the P2P model work.

 

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Comments

  • Sircampsalot08Sircampsalot08 Member Posts: 20
    FFXIV is also showing the subscription model still works.
  • BascolaBascola Member UncommonPosts: 425

    What a silly question. Wow is by no means going to be the last one or the longest running.

    1. FFXI (13 Years, 2 years more than WoW)
    2. EvE Online (12 Years, 1 year longer than WoW)
    3. FFXIV (5 Years)
    Off the top of my head, you should do some research next time.
     
  • General-ZodGeneral-Zod Member UncommonPosts: 868
    Originally posted by Bascola

    What a silly question. Wow is by no means going to be the last one or the longest running.

    1. FFXI (13 Years, 2 years more than WoW)
    2. EvE Online (12 Years, 1 year longer than WoW)
    3. FFXIV (5 Years)
    Off the top of my head, you should do some research next time.
     

    Dark Age of Camelot (14 years, 3 years more than WoW)

    image
  • vadio123vadio123 Member UncommonPosts: 593

    Maybe?

    But i hope NO

     

    If wow last p2p mmo what happening to others? pseudo-freeplay?

    in best case all become B2P

     

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,723

    WoW is the exception to the rule. When you have millions and millions of people subing you have no need bow to the market.

    Here is the sad fact...

    Every MMO has a fan following. Fans who will pay box+ sub +cash shop. So why release B2P or F2P. If you have a good following, sell to your fans for the full deal and when you are ready for more gamers and your game is stable and the servers are stable. Switch to B2P or F2P. This IMO is the way things will almost always land.

  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    Originally posted by Bascola

    What a silly question. Wow is by no means going to be the last one or the longest running.

    1. FFXI (13 Years, 2 years more than WoW)
    2. EvE Online (12 Years, 1 year longer than WoW)
    3. FFXIV (5 Years)
    Off the top of my head, you should do some research next time.
     

    Haha, wow.. so 3 out of dozens of MMO's out there.

    The truth is, even WoW isn't completely p2p.  It has a starter edition up to level 20 indefinitely.  It's also f2p on their test server whenever it's up.  EvE can be considered f2p also due to their plex system.  FFXIV seems to be the lone stranger to everyone else, especially with the announcement of ESO going b2p.

    That list only proves that those older MMO's were designed in a different era, with a different model, when players accepted it.  Times have changed since then.  B2P and F2P are here to stay.

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536

    Soon as people start making good MMOs again, pay to play will become viable again.  No one is going to pay to play a game that doesn't offer anything innovative.

    I like F2P, but it will not work with every type of game.  Unless a game supports a lot of customization, you can't make money on cosmetics.  If you are selling much more than cosmetics, you will be branded P2W and your game will fail regardless.


  • BascolaBascola Member UncommonPosts: 425
    Originally posted by observer
    Originally posted by Bascola

    What a silly question. Wow is by no means going to be the last one or the longest running.

    1. FFXI (13 Years, 2 years more than WoW)
    2. EvE Online (12 Years, 1 year longer than WoW)
    3. FFXIV (5 Years)
    Off the top of my head, you should do some research next time.
     

    Haha, wow.. so 3 out of dozens of MMO's out there.

    The truth is, even WoW isn't completely p2p.  It has a starter edition up to level 20 indefinitely.  It's also f2p on their test server whenever it's up.  EvE can be considered f2p also due to their plex system.  FFXIV seems to be the lone stranger to everyone else, especially with the announcement of ESO going b2p.

    That list only proves that those older MMO's were designed in a different era, with a different model, when players accepted it.  Times have changed since then.  B2P and F2P are here to stay.

    Players still accept it because they are still around and going strong. EvE is not F2P you need to subscribe to play. FFXI you conveniently ignored. Dark Age of Camelot (14 years, 3 years more than WoW) you ignored too.

    Those older MMO's? WOW is just as old.

  • DatastarDatastar Member UncommonPosts: 414
    FF14/Wildstar/EVE all maintain a subscription and i wouldnt count on wow staying p2p for much longer i get the feelings its going f2p soon too...
  • VelocinoxVelocinox Member UncommonPosts: 1,010

    Pay to play? You mean like GW2 and the new ESO plan?

     

    'Cause you sure don't get that box for free...

     

    Calling WoW the only or last pay to play mmo is hyperbole and incorrect.

     

     

    'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


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  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    Originally posted by Bascola
    Originally posted by observer
    Originally posted by Bascola

    What a silly question. Wow is by no means going to be the last one or the longest running.

    1. FFXI (13 Years, 2 years more than WoW)
    2. EvE Online (12 Years, 1 year longer than WoW)
    3. FFXIV (5 Years)
    Off the top of my head, you should do some research next time.
     

    Haha, wow.. so 3 out of dozens of MMO's out there.

    The truth is, even WoW isn't completely p2p.  It has a starter edition up to level 20 indefinitely.  It's also f2p on their test server whenever it's up.  EvE can be considered f2p also due to their plex system.  FFXIV seems to be the lone stranger to everyone else, especially with the announcement of ESO going b2p.

    That list only proves that those older MMO's were designed in a different era, with a different model, when players accepted it.  Times have changed since then.  B2P and F2P are here to stay.

    Players still accept it because they are still around and going strong. EvE is not F2P you need to subscribe to play. FFXI you conveniently ignored. Dark Age of Camelot (14 years, 3 years more than WoW) you ignored too.

    Those older MMO's? WOW is just as old.

    In EvE you can convert ISK to buy PLEX, which extends your game time.  The initial sub might be required still, but after that, you can keep playing indefinitely if you get more PLEX.  WoW will soon be adopting this system also.

    I didn't conveniently ignore those games.  Re-read what i wrote.

    "those older MMO's were designed in a different era, with a different model, when players accepted it. ".

    I also dont see how you can say those games are still going strong, when their sub numbers are abysmal.  They might be strong for niche and nostalgic players, but that's it.

     

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Member UncommonPosts: 1,140

    No... I think P2P is going to explode in the next few years- Problem is it will be through a plethora of niche games with no budget , buggy as hell, and trying too all be the next "UO" or "EQ".... And crowdfunded of course...

    WOW very well may be the last AAA sub game standing.

    I think some of you guys newer to the genre will be looking at the "good ol days"  of F2p. The next step where AAA will move in the next 5 years is to integrate more with the nFB/Mobile/Casual gamers who are making up a huge portion of untapped profit- Expect to see "Energy gems" and such, timers that can be bypassed with real money etc..etc..etc..

     

    I HOPE im wrong but ive about given up the genre already and sadly,I am calling it like im seeing it. The pendulum could also swing the other way if enough of us start voting with out wallets and not defending blatant lies and greed...But...I doubt it.

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    Originally posted by observer
    Originally posted by Bascola
    Originally posted by observer
    Originally posted by Bascola

    What a silly question. Wow is by no means going to be the last one or the longest running.

    1. FFXI (13 Years, 2 years more than WoW)
    2. EvE Online (12 Years, 1 year longer than WoW)
    3. FFXIV (5 Years)
    Off the top of my head, you should do some research next time.
     

    Haha, wow.. so 3 out of dozens of MMO's out there.

    The truth is, even WoW isn't completely p2p.  It has a starter edition up to level 20 indefinitely.  It's also f2p on their test server whenever it's up.  EvE can be considered f2p also due to their plex system.  FFXIV seems to be the lone stranger to everyone else, especially with the announcement of ESO going b2p.

    That list only proves that those older MMO's were designed in a different era, with a different model, when players accepted it.  Times have changed since then.  B2P and F2P are here to stay.

    Players still accept it because they are still around and going strong. EvE is not F2P you need to subscribe to play. FFXI you conveniently ignored. Dark Age of Camelot (14 years, 3 years more than WoW) you ignored too.

    Those older MMO's? WOW is just as old.

    In EvE you can convert ISK to buy PLEX, which extends your game time.  The initial sub might be required still, but after that, you can keep playing indefinitely if you get more PLEX.  WoW will soon be adopting this system also.

    I didn't conveniently ignore those games.  Re-read what i wrote.

    "those older MMO's were designed in a different era, with a different model, when players accepted it. ".

    I also dont see how you can say those games are still going strong, when their sub numbers are abysmal.  They might be strong for niche and nostalgic players, but that's it.

     

    "Dozens" is a bit of an understatement too. Hundreds would probably be more accurate unless we're only counting fairly large titles.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    Originally posted by Jacxolope

    No... I think P2P is going to explode in the next few years- Problem is it will be through a plethora of niche games with no budget , buggy as hell, and trying too all be the next "UO" or "EQ".... And crowdfunded of course...

    WOW very well may be the last AAA sub game standing.

    I think some of you guys newer to the genre will be looking at the "good ol days"  of F2p. The next step where AAA will move in the next 5 years is to integrate more with the nFB/Mobile/Casual gamers who are making up a huge portion of untapped profit- Expect to see "Energy gems" and such, timers that can be bypassed with real money etc..etc..etc..

     

    I HOPE im wrong but ive about given up the genre already and sadly,I am calling it like im seeing it. The pendulum could also swing the other way if enough of us start voting with out wallets and not defending blatant lies and greed...But...I doubt it.

    Not sure where you're getting that idea. All of the upcoming crowdfunded sandbox games are F2P AFAIK. So that trend you're predicting hasn't even started to begin with.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Member UncommonPosts: 1,140
    Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade
    Originally posted by Jacxolope

    No... I think P2P is going to explode in the next few years- Problem is it will be through a plethora of niche games with no budget , buggy as hell, and trying too all be the next "UO" or "EQ".... And crowdfunded of course...

    WOW very well may be the last AAA sub game standing.

    I think some of you guys newer to the genre will be looking at the "good ol days"  of F2p. The next step where AAA will move in the next 5 years is to integrate more with the nFB/Mobile/Casual gamers who are making up a huge portion of untapped profit- Expect to see "Energy gems" and such, timers that can be bypassed with real money etc..etc..etc..

     

    I HOPE im wrong but ive about given up the genre already and sadly,I am calling it like im seeing it. The pendulum could also swing the other way if enough of us start voting with out wallets and not defending blatant lies and greed...But...I doubt it.

    Not sure where you're getting that idea. All of the upcoming crowdfunded sandbox games are F2P AFAIK. So that trend you're predicting hasn't even started to begin with.

    -Thats complex (where my idea comes from) but simply put its simple mathmatics. Mortal Online, Xylom, darkfall, and other games (the whole"next UO games") are failing and the playerbase for those games for the most part wont touch F2P. Plus F2P in what essentially ends up being an online arena wont work. These games are doing poorly,getting old etc- But there still is a market for these games although a niche one. With the new tools like Unity and such, this is where the glut of P2P "next UO" type games will come from.

    AAA studios wont even really touch these games now due to small playerbase- But an indie can sustain themselves on a population that could be garnered. ..Plus enough people tired of F2P . So... Thats where we will see the glut of P2P games. IMHO they will all suck anyhow.

     

    I also understand that trend hasnt begun yet. I though this thread was about the future and where things are heading.

     

    AA does have those energy gems and timers BTW...THAT trend has begun. If they make money with it and its defendedit willpick up very soon with other new games.But its coming regardless. 

  • KanethKaneth Member RarePosts: 2,286
    Originally posted by Datastar
    FF14/Wildstar/EVE all maintain a subscription and i wouldnt count on wow staying p2p for much longer i get the feelings its going f2p soon too...

    I mostly disagree with you on your feelings of WoW going F2P anytime soon. They haven't had much of an issue retaining 6+ million subs for nearly the entire 10 years WoW has been out. I would imagine that Blizzard might give up on the Battle Chest+current Xpack model becoming required to purchase. Basically purchase the current xpack and get everything else included, much like they stopped gating races behind xpack requirements with MoP.

    That being said, I could see them basically making the entire game EXCEPT the current xpack go F2P, with things like AH restrictions in place. 90 levels worth of content to make an informed decision about a game is nothing to shake a stick. Blizzard makes so much damn money off their subs alone I can't imagine them getting rid of it entirely.

    I'm guessing Wildstar will go F2P or B2P at some point. I can see Squeenix being really stubborn, but I also feel they will eventually need to submit to the B2P nature of the market.

    Actually, I kind of hope more of these games go B2P, I am finding myself getting burnt out too quickly on any one game anymore and I tend to play multiple games at once..

  • BascolaBascola Member UncommonPosts: 425
    Originally posted by observer
    Originally posted by Bascola
    Originally posted by observer
    Originally posted by Bascola

    What a silly question. Wow is by no means going to be the last one or the longest running.

    1. FFXI (13 Years, 2 years more than WoW)
    2. EvE Online (12 Years, 1 year longer than WoW)
    3. FFXIV (5 Years)
    Off the top of my head, you should do some research next time.
     

    Haha, wow.. so 3 out of dozens of MMO's out there.

    The truth is, even WoW isn't completely p2p.  It has a starter edition up to level 20 indefinitely.  It's also f2p on their test server whenever it's up.  EvE can be considered f2p also due to their plex system.  FFXIV seems to be the lone stranger to everyone else, especially with the announcement of ESO going b2p.

    That list only proves that those older MMO's were designed in a different era, with a different model, when players accepted it.  Times have changed since then.  B2P and F2P are here to stay.

    Players still accept it because they are still around and going strong. EvE is not F2P you need to subscribe to play. FFXI you conveniently ignored. Dark Age of Camelot (14 years, 3 years more than WoW) you ignored too.

    Those older MMO's? WOW is just as old.

    In EvE you can convert ISK to buy PLEX, which extends your game time.  The initial sub might be required still, but after that, you can keep playing indefinitely if you get more PLEX.  WoW will soon be adopting this system also.

    I didn't conveniently ignore those games.  Re-read what i wrote.

    "those older MMO's were designed in a different era, with a different model, when players accepted it. ".

    I also dont see how you can say those games are still going strong, when their sub numbers are abysmal.  They might be strong for niche and nostalgic players, but that's it.

     

    All three are putting out new content on a regular basis. Quality content not some fluff like other games do. FFXI had a full expansion with dozens of new areas and end game content and does a content update every month! FFXIV has a content update every 3 months with new dungeons, boss fights and many more things. EvE has big updates every 6-12 months.

    I would say they are still going very strong indeed. All 3 of them have more content than most F2P crap combined.

  • fivorothfivoroth Member UncommonPosts: 3,916
    Originally posted by DMKano

    A more relevant question would be

    How many major upcoming MMOs will be P2P?

     

    Yeah, I think you are right. The recent F2P conversion of so many MMOs makes you wonder if there will be any upcoming AAA MMOs which are P2P.

    Originally posted by Bascola

    What a silly question. Wow is by no means going to be the last one or the longest running.

    1. FFXI (13 Years, 2 years more than WoW)
    2. EvE Online (12 Years, 1 year longer than WoW)
    3. FFXIV (5 Years)

    Off the top of my head, you should do some research next time.

     

    I am well aware of which games are still P2P. There is very few of them left. FFXIV and DAOC are so ancient I am not even sure how many people play them. It MAY be that they are not F2P because the developer doesn't see the point of converting to F2P as these games are so old that they are unlikely to attract many new customers.

    EVE and FFXIV are the only ones which are doing okaish and I can see them remaining P2P - EVE due to its nature, FFXIV due to the stubborness of Square Enix.

    Wildstar is technically still P2P but we all know where that one is going given how horribly it failed at launch.

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,723
    Originally posted by DMKano

    A more relevant question would be

    How many major upcoming MMOs will be P2P?

     

    Relevant follow up question, what major MMO will launch P2P that will stay P2P?

  • ReizlaReizla Member RarePosts: 4,092
    Originally posted by General-Zod
    Originally posted by Bascola

    What a silly question. Wow is by no means going to be the last one or the longest running.

    1. FFXI (13 Years, 2 years more than WoW)
    2. EvE Online (12 Years, 1 year longer than WoW)
    3. FFXIV (5 Years)
    Off the top of my head, you should do some research next time.
     

    Dark Age of Camelot (14 years, 3 years more than WoW)

    Ultima Online is still sub as well iirc...

  • KothosesKothoses Member UncommonPosts: 893

    No, but along with the two Final Fantasies and Eve it might be the only one that can keep a big enough subscriber base to satisfy its ambitions while keeping the model.

     

    Subscription based MMOs are not dead, the problem has been the last 7 years have seen a lot of undercooked games pushed out with a subscription model which then turn to F2P or B2P when the numbers dont add up.   But FFXIV proves that if you  put out a good product and make the sub worthwhile you can maintain a strong enough subscriber base to do well.

     

    However the problem is people expect every MMO to be a breakout success and it wont be, the market is becoming more fragmented, which leads to two things higher player churn and lower retention, games that understand and focus on this will continue to do well regardless of model.

    Promoting thought a new Gaming video blog http://www.youtube.com/user/quinnthalas discussing games, gamers and the internet with gameplay footage as background.

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135

    Of course not. As long as there is a market for games, people are going to pay for them (that's basically what market means).

    If you're trying to say 'WoW is the last subscription MMO' well that is another matter entirely. In the current market, subscriptions don't really work. The reason WoW is able to retain as many subs as it does, is because it managed to hook a significantly larger amount of players than every other subscription MMO at the time, before the market changed. Equal parts luck and clever business planning.

    Basically, if you can introduce millions of people to a genre they never knew existed, and get their friends as well, you're set. And that's exactly what Blizzard did w/ WoW. It doesn't matter that millions of people are tired of the game. Almost everyone who enjoys MMOs knows someone who plays WoW. The market for games is just way too saturated atm for a subscription model to work. Convincing people that paying a premium for your game is worth it, when there are dozens of cheaper (or free) quality games on the market is too tough a sell.

    I'm sure in another 10-20 years times will swing back around, and we'll start to see a resurgence of sub games. Or more hybrid business models. It's going to depend on a lot of factors, but these things tend to happen in cycles.

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 Member Posts: 2,735
    The subscription model is pretty much dead, i don't see any new AAA mmo's doing a subscription model in the future.
  • hikaru77hikaru77 Member UncommonPosts: 1,123

    The P2P market is still there strong as ever, but now is called ¨Premium service¨, so in that way people believe that a game is F2P or B2P when they are just playing an endless trial, a few examples.

    SWTOR, AoC, LOTRO and now ESO. P2P games with a Cash Shop, just the same model that WoW have now, But to be honest Just FFXIV is a 99% P2P MMO, everything else can be called ¨Freemium¨, even WoW. 

     

  • KopogeroKopogero Member UncommonPosts: 1,685

    F2P=>B2P=>P2P=> P2W=>B2P+P2P=>B2P+P2P+P2W

    B2P and P2P are also close...B2P is more like a wall toward potential market with bigger upfront fee/risk, but in a same time it allows freedom for the player to choose on what is he buying to play as the game continues to deliver new DLC/expansions etc over a fixed sub. At the end it all comes to cost and the cheaper will win for the consumer as well as giving the consumer more choices on what to spend his $ on.

    B2P can be $20, $30, $40, $50 etc, and P2P can be $5, $7, $9, $12, $15 etc. Saddest part of all this is I'm playing/paying for a MMORPG that has the worst monetizing model (WOW, which is B2P+P2P+P2W), but the fact it's been the only new MMO I've spent $ over the last 4+ years I can afford to do it. If something else can compete with it then I would gladly abandon WOW.

    image

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