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Why have classes if the mmo is EXTREAMLY EASY !

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  • BraindomeBraindome Member UncommonPosts: 959
    Originally posted by Athisar                                                                                                                                                       Thankfully the XP disabler is quite cheap now (100 TP at full price), and if you want to do the epic storyline as well as a good set of quests it's basically essential if you want a challenge.

    I love MMORPG's that allow you to disable XP gain and personally feel it's pretty much or "should pretty much" be a default feature for all MMORPG's. It changes alot and is such a small feature that gets overlooked all to often which was one of the key features of old school MMORPG's.

  • AthisarAthisar Member UncommonPosts: 666
    Originally posted by Braindome
    Originally posted by Athisar                                                                                                                                                       Thankfully the XP disabler is quite cheap now (100 TP at full price), and if you want to do the epic storyline as well as a good set of quests it's basically essential if you want a challenge.

    I love MMORPG's that allow you to disable XP gain and personally feel it's pretty much or "should pretty much" be a default feature for all MMORPG's. It changes alot and is such a small feature that gets overlooked all to often which was one of the key features of old school MMORPG's.

    Most games provide experience boosts, e.g. to subscribers. Turbine gives a daily boost which you can't disable - I see this as a downside to subscribing not a perk.

    Speaking of difficulty though, last night I tried a fellowship quest at level 21 - I was 22 and the other guy 23. We wiped four times on the boss and then gave up. There was no way we were going to do it with just two of us.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Originally posted by Athisar

    Most games provide experience boosts, e.g. to subscribers. Turbine gives a daily boost which you can't disable - I see this as a downside to subscribing not a perk.

    Speaking of difficulty though, last night I tried a fellowship quest at level 21 - I was 22 and the other guy 23. We wiped four times on the boss and then gave up. There was no way we were going to do it with just two of us.

    There was a thread earlier about being Vip, I wrote there the same, the daily Vip boost is more like a burden than a gift - I mean to anyone who aren't rushing / powerleveling to the cap.

     

    Fellowship around that level, to be honest I pass. It was Lugbas in Nan Wathren? Or one of the southern barrow bosses for the Executioner of the Wicked deed? Brishzel is tough as a nail, I think it's not even soloable below lvl40 something :)

  • AthisarAthisar Member UncommonPosts: 666
    Originally posted by Po_gg

    Fellowship around that level, to be honest I pass. It was Lugbas in Nan Wathren? Or one of the southern barrow bosses for the Executioner of the Wicked deed? Brishzel is tough as a nail, I think it's not even soloable below lvl40 something :)

    It was the take back Weathertop epic storyline quest/instance. I've only done it solo before, and it's very easy. We were two champions and without healing the end boss and his adds just wiped us out.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Originally posted by Athisar
     

    It was the take back Weathertop epic storyline quest/instance. I've only done it solo before, and it's very easy. We were two champions and without healing the end boss and his adds just wiped us out.

    Great one indeed. Though I think it's more like lvl23-24. And yep, if one is around 23 and there's only one another in the group, s/he needs to be at least 40, the troll on the top is hard.

    Last autumn during the course it was one of the assingments that we needed to play it (and make either a video or an essay from the experience), was fun.

    edit: http://youtu.be/1QXfwjV1OaI a random video I just found, it's not from the last course (from the one a year earlier), but I think it's a great comparison of the characterisation in the 3 media. Also contains several wipes, just to cheer you up :)

  • klagmireklagmire Member UncommonPosts: 95
    I agree totally, MMO's used to be hard , so hard you had to go to wikis just to figure out how to finish a quest or craft stuff. They had a sense of accomplishment and only the best players made it to the end. Or they helped other players to figure it out. which added to the community aspect. Now they are just solo console RPG's

    Played:SWG(pre NGE/CU sucked)Yep its true, anyone who quit SWG because of the NGE/CU missed out on a much better combat system. DCUO, Fallen Earth, STO, The Secret World. Battlefield series. Planetside 2. Still playing SWG.

  • AthisarAthisar Member UncommonPosts: 666
    Originally posted by Po_gg

    Great one indeed. Though I think it's more like lvl23-24. And yep, if one is around 23 and there's only one another in the group, s/he needs to be at least 40, the troll on the top is hard.

    Last autumn during the course it was one of the assingments that we needed to play it (and make either a video or an essay from the experience), was fun.

    edit: http://youtu.be/1QXfwjV1OaI a random video I just found, it's not from the last course (from the one a year earlier), but I think it's a great comparison of the characterisation in the 3 media. Also contains several wipes, just to cheer you up :)

    Off topic question - do all members of the Fellowship have to be on the quest to do the instance? Last night we both had to go to Candaith to travel to the instance. It'd make getting a group together really difficult, not many will be on the quest.

  • Shayyd80Shayyd80 Member Posts: 110

    I've never played this game yet. I'm an MMO veteran since 1999 and started with original Everquest then moved on to Star Wars Galaxies (before they F'd it up). I've played WoW about 9 years or so off and on and am very sick of it. 

    Would it be too late for me to start LOTRO? I'd subscribe if I like it enough. Would also like to know what server would be best for a new player and also if any guilds with voicechat are recruiting? Thanks so much for your time =)

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Originally posted by Athisar

    Off topic question - do all members of the Fellowship have to be on the quest to do the instance? Last night we both had to go to Candaith to travel to the instance. It'd make getting a group together really difficult, not many will be on the quest.

    Actually it's a bit strange, as the linked video shows too, it's not necessary anymore - if you've done it before already. I couldn't say when this change happened, back in the days you could only re-play via the reflecting pools, but I too could join a couple times during the course for Weathertop on the fly. Maybe it's because of the addition of the Instance finder tool.

    So, if none of you have played it before, then yes, you need to go to Candaith - and also you need to finish the previous quest chain too, since Retake Weathertop is part of the book quest line. But after that you can join to a fellowship as many times as you want, from anywhere the world, you'll be teleported to Weathertop when they start the quest.

    Originally posted by Shayyd80

    Would it be too late for me to start LOTRO? I'd subscribe if I like it enough. Would also like to know what server would be best for a new player and also if any guilds with voicechat are recruiting? Thanks so much for your time =)

    I guess it's never too late, many players just started over a few months ago when beornings arrived (the new class). Server is a bit tougher question, since they are planning some server moving this year (Eu servers back to the Eu, and closing the least populated ones).

    If you're from US and playing according that timezone, then I'd say Brandywine or Crickhollow, those are the most crowded US servers, or if you're into roleplaying, then Landroval, the US roleplay server (with events like this http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/426190/Winterstock-this-weekend.html). Guilds (called kins in LotRO, as in kinships) are frequently recruiting, many have their own TS or Vent servers. Though voice is not an issue, LotRO has built-in voice chat (mostly used for pugs).

    edit: Turbine usually picks a server as "recommended", that gets the first place on the server list, so usually that's a good pick if you want to join with newcomers. Recommended servers used to have a nice influx on the lower levels. BUT, now it's Evernight, which is a Eu server, thus it will coming back to Eu this year, if you start there, you'll have a ping increase later... that's why I said Brandy or Crick.

  • Shayyd80Shayyd80 Member Posts: 110
    Originally posted by Po_gg
    Originally posted by Athisar

    Off topic question - do all members of the Fellowship have to be on the quest to do the instance? Last night we both had to go to Candaith to travel to the instance. It'd make getting a group together really difficult, not many will be on the quest.

    Actually it's a bit strange, as the linked video shows too, it's not necessary anymore - if you've done it before already. I couldn't say when this change happened, back in the days you could only re-play via the reflecting pools, but I too could join a couple times during the course for Weathertop on the fly. Maybe it's because of the addition of the Instance finder tool.

    So, if none of you have played it before, then yes, you need to go to Candaith - and also you need to finish the previous quest chain too, since Retake Weathertop is part of the book quest line. But after that you can join to a fellowship as many times as you want, from anywhere the world, you'll be teleported to Weathertop when they start the quest.

    Originally posted by Shayyd80

    Would it be too late for me to start LOTRO? I'd subscribe if I like it enough. Would also like to know what server would be best for a new player and also if any guilds with voicechat are recruiting? Thanks so much for your time =)

    I guess it's never too late, many players just started over a few months ago when beornings arrived (the new class). Server is a bit tougher question, since they are planning some server moving this year (Eu servers back to the Eu, and closing the least populated ones).

    If you're from US and playing according that timezone, then I'd say Brandywine or Crickhollow, those are the most crowded US servers, or if you're into roleplaying, then Landroval, the US roleplay server (with events like this http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/426190/Winterstock-this-weekend.html). Guilds (called kins in LotRO, as in kinships) are frequently recruiting, many have their own TS or Vent servers. Though voice is not an issue, LotRO has built-in voice chat (mostly used for pugs).

    edit: Turbine usually picks a server as "recommended", that gets the first place on the server list, so usually that's a good pick if you want to join with newcomers. Recommended servers used to have a nice influx on the lower levels. BUT, now it's Evernight, which is a Eu server, thus it will coming back to Eu this year, if you start there, you'll have a ping increase later... that's why I said Brandy or Crick.

     Thanks for your reply. I made it through the Intro quest series tonight. Level 7 Hobbit Minstrel. Seems pretty cool so far but the first zone seems completely empty. I chose the Crickhollow server i think which was the more populated one. At level 7 it says i haven't played long enough to chat in /world. When does that unlock? I want to be sure I want to subscribe. So far I really like it though. However the sound was not working except in cutscenes which is odd because all volume was up in game. Suggestions?

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Originally posted by Shayyd80

    At level 7 it says i haven't played long enough to chat in /world. When does that unlock? I want to be sure I want to subscribe. So far I really like it though. However the sound was not working except in cutscenes which is odd because all volume was up in game. Suggestions?

    If it says you can't use /world (and a few more things too), that's because you haven't finished the tutorial yet, and you're still in Novice status. (and maybe that causes the emptiness too, the tutorial is in an instance, exclusive for Novices, not accessible to anyone else above that rank)

    As a hobbit, after the battle in Archet Jon sends you back to the Shire. In Little Delving you should speak with Mundo, and that will close off the tutorial part, you'll get the rank Newbie, receive the milestone skill (an adjustable location marker where you can teleport back from anywhere, with a 1h cooldown), and a letter in the mailbox with some goodies (most notable a riding skill for a day :) )

     

    Subscription: I'd say hold that back a bit, in the beginning you don't need the Vip status (same goes to the afforementioned horse from the box, starter areas are fine on foot as well). If you get to level 20 and still like the game, that's a good place for subbing: you can learn to ride for free (non-subbers need to purchase the skill), and for Vips every quest pack is open, so you can go towards North Downs instead of Lone-lands, if you like. (sidenote, if you know you will subscribe, you can use up the gift horse from the box at around level 15, to speed up things :) )

     

    Sound: strange indeed. The only sound issue I heard lately was on Macs (background and player music was bugged), but that was fixed too in a recent update. Maybe a checkbox left out somewhere?

  • VolenibbletsVolenibblets Member UncommonPosts: 223

    Not to mention the now dumbed down talent tree system. I loved this game's quirkiness and oddball trait system, set it aside from most other games in the genre. It made it durably interesting. Then they must have thought it was confusing for the 5-second-attention-span-generation so they refining the skill trees to 'duhhhh...healing....duh...dps....duh tank' and reduced the number and variety of skills accessible through each of these specs to a more 'manageable' amount of options that my dog could master.

    I was drunk and nostalgic last Friday night and I regrettably resubbed to wow after four years....and it seems they decided to reduce the talent trees and number of skills to the same thing since I last played..and it was far from complex to begin with!! Not a single developer trying to do anything complex, different or interesting that I can see, it's all aimed at a mass market, quick buck/quick bust model of moronology.  

  • AthisarAthisar Member UncommonPosts: 666

    There's still the free steed and riding skill starter pack available from mmogames. That provides a mount and riding skill from level 5 on all your characters, including those you've already made. 

    The initial area is often quite empty as it's instanced. Also, the Shire is less popular as a starter area as some of the quests are a bit quirky, like becoming a chicken or being a postman.

     

    edit:

    Here's the link for the starter pack. I'd strongly recommend getting this if you don't already have the riding skill and you're not subscriber, it'll save loads of TP and make the starting game much more enjoyable.

    http://www.mmogames.com/giveaways/extended-lord-rings-starter-pack-giveaway/

     

    edit 2:

    Come on mmorpg.com, get one of these giveaways yourselves!

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,574

    About the title "extremely easy" (or extreamly image)  Update 15.2 was launched, mostly with beorning tweaks and a few fixes on the landscape, PLUS Roving Threats:

    "As the War of the Ring intensifies, new threats have come to Middle-earth! Powerful servants of the Enemy can now be found in Angmar, Forochel, Western Gondor, and the Misty Mountains. For those bold enough to stand against these foes, new and unique rewards can be obtained by claiming the brands they bear."

    I'm on the fence with it, just like many folks on the forums. Eriador already has plenty of named Elites roving around (back in the days they served for the rare crafting mats, then after the crafting revamp they're just some extra fun), but those are on-level ones, so while pretty deadly when 1v1, a couple of adventurer can handle them.

    This new ones are on the other hand max.level ones. And to be honest, I don't see the point... if it's for level-capped folks, they won't travel all the way back for them (except if the loot is good). And the leveling, on-level players will avoid them like the plague, since even a 12-15 man group of level 40-45s won't be enough for kicking their lvl100 butts.

     

    I think it's a good attempt for cheap group content, but after the novelty wears off, most likely these Threats will just walking around in solitude, nobody will talk to the poor souls, let alone kill them :) but at least -to refer back to the title- it's not that extremely easy now, there's a bit of threat added image

     

    edit: the giveaway mentioned above is a cool one.

  • AthisarAthisar Member UncommonPosts: 666

    We need more of those mobs like the warg in Chetwood (Braugh or something like that).

     

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 15,897

    I think is never discussed because people realize how futile it is to try and get into a trapped brain.It is like trying to convince a Klepto or thief what they are doing is wrong,they will NEVER listen.

    We have for example people in sport's ,most relish the challenge of the sport as being the fun.Then there are others very few who would rather just see a stat a rank even if it means they are what we call "sandbagging"their skill level.You always have to take it to the extreme before these people understand.Example ask them if they would like to play in a sports league as an adult playing against all 6 year olds,99% would right away understand why not,1% would be oh heck ya i can score 50 goals in 2 games and get 1000 pts a season and set records.

    In gaming it is the same thing,MOST want to be challenged and there is a varying level from player to player.Gaming however seems to have the highest level of people that just don't "get it".99% of these games all have massive hand holding,that is a level of game play that a mere child could play,so why are people supporting that?If you act like a child and get called a child they would be extremely angry right,so then why support childish game design?

    It is almost like you have to make a check list for them to understand

    1 Do you like mommy holding your hand  as you walk through the mall...of course not...well then?

    2 You NEED someone to hold your hand and walk you directly to the cash shout or are you capable of finding it yourself?You do know which is the male and female washroom correct?

    3 Do you like to think at all or would you rather someone just gives yo u the answer?Hint ,,see education system and why you are tested,they don't just give you the answer.

    Last but not least ,i have noticed that in some gamer's there is a small area of the mind that no matter how trivial or how easy,they somehow think they accomplished something.I can breathe air ...YAY /ding  /congratulations !!.

     

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ThebeastttThebeasttt Member RarePosts: 1,130

    Classes have nothing to do with difficulty.

     

    It's more like why bother playing the game at all if it's retard easy?

  • AthisarAthisar Member UncommonPosts: 666

    I've done some group play over the last few days, I've mostly played the game solo. It's certainly harder, but being able to set the level of instances is useful.

    Yesterday I did the three Great Barrows instances with a 6 man group, all level 20-23, with the instance set at 23. There's no way we'd have managed it without a healer (me, a minstrel), and even with me healing full on, it was tough and we had several deaths - no wipes though.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Originally posted by Athisar

    Yesterday I did the three Great Barrows instances with a 6 man group, all level 20-23, with the instance set at 23. There's no way we'd have managed it without a healer (me, a minstrel), and even with me healing full on, it was tough and we had several deaths - no wipes though.

    Yep, that's what you and me are keep saying in this thread, the group content is still there, and it's only easier by the amount the class changes made the whole game easier, which means little for groups. When we had to do GB for the course (it was one of the weekly assignments), we had the same experience and fun and wipes - since it was mainly a LotR course, and a few classmates were totally new into mmos :)

    Also worth mentioning that GB is the "tutorial" instance, the first time in the game where group effort, coordination and teamplay is needed, so it's quite forgiving, and still can be tough. Just play Garth Agarwen with a group of level 30-32, it's great. Did that too on the course, after a couple wipes we decided to skip the challenges and focusing only on the main task :)

    True, you can solo both when go in with a higher level, but that doesn't mean the game is easy...

  • AthisarAthisar Member UncommonPosts: 666
    Originally posted by Po_gg

    Yep, that's what you and me are keep saying in this thread, the group content is still there, and it's only easier by the amount the class changes made the whole game easier, which means little for groups. When we had to do GB for the course (it was one of the weekly assignments), we had the same experience and fun and wipes - since it was mainly a LotR course, and a few classmates were totally new into mmos :)

    Hopefully I'm not being too repetitive :)

    I've been playing a lot with different classes lately - minstrel, burglar, runekeeper. It's lots of fun. They're nothing like each other, regardless of whether it's easy or not.

    For example yesterday I did a GB run as a burglar. Using CC, debuffs and fellowship manoeuvres is far varied from a melee champ attack. We did wipe twice, so it was obviously challenging.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,574

    While we keep saying how much fun is playing in a fellowship and the group content, I admit I had a good, healthy laugh on the thread too, lotro forum, the solo Gollum  http://i62.tinypic.com/2na20kn.jpg

    He's the ultimate solo player, solo'ed Misty Mountains and Goblin-town for centuries, he'd be still in there if not that sneaky hobbit who took his highest (and only one) piece of gear... those burglars and their Riddle skill :)

    So he had to resurface, and join a 3man small fellowship for Dead Marshes and the Shelob instance, where he finally clicked on "Leave fellowship" and took the solo playstyle again image

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Originally posted by Athisar

    We need more of those mobs like the warg in Chetwood (Braugh or something like that).

    Those are the 'easy mode' now with these roving ones added :)

    Also there was an update yesterday for making them tougher (since a 100 with enough time could solo them, even with their close-to-3million morale), so now they have lower morale, but more mechanics, not just one insta-kill move, and hitting harder with the simple attacks too.

    More challenge now, but it seems a well-prepared 100 still can solo them, if careful enough. Still, it's fun to group up and beat the crap out of those behemoths :)

    (this fella for example taller than a giant, check the mammoth at his feet  http://postimg.org/image/hgdrekhrp/ )

  • fistormfistorm Member UncommonPosts: 868

    This is the reason classes are so easy right now...

     

    Old system:

    fellowships had

    loremaster :  crowd control and half the dps

    hunter:  Full single target dps, zero aoe,  very very little worthless crowd control

    burglar half dps, but able to start Fellowship moves which were powerful

    Champion:  half dps single target, Full aoe dps, could tank stuff

     

     

    New System:

    loremaster:  Fulll dps,  crowd control

    Hunter: Full dps, very very little worthelss crowd control

    burglar:  Full dps, able to start Fellowship moves which are powerful

    Champion: Full dps single target, Full dps aoe dps,  Can tank raid bosses

     

     

    If you were a hunter when the new system hit, you can see how easy it was to be the top dps pick for groups to then becoming the bottom of the dps pick.  

     

    When all classes could do FULL dps and KEEP all the stuff that made the fellowship balanced (crowd control, tanking, fellowships),  the game then became a face roll based only on stats and not uniqueness.

     

    hope that explains it.   I quit the game at that point, which was ROI

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,021
    Lotr has grouping?
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Originally posted by fistorm

    This is the reason classes are so easy right now...

    Old system:

    ....

    New System:

     ....

     

    hope that explains it.   I quit the game at that point, which was ROI

    Then it's off-topic, since OP is talking about post-HD, the over-easy trait trees :)

    Don't get me wrong, I too left my mini on the shelf gathering dust after the Isengard changes, but compared to HD it was a golden age of toughness. And still, I make posts against the "extreamly easy" part...

    See, it's obvious and I don't think anyone would debate it, 2015 LotRO is easier than Isengard LotRO. (luckily it's tweaked a bit after HD, since the first few months after HD launch was indeed extremely easy). And also the line goes along, Isengard LotRO was easier than pre-f2p LotRO in 2010, which was easier than Mirkwood, which was easier than Moria LotRO.

    BUT. That's not a LotRO issue, that's an issue with the whole industry. As I wrote above countless times, LotRO is not easier than any other mmo out there (if you play on level, might I add, turtle stone ftw). You could draw up a similar easy-fication line with every game, heck even for whole genres (still to this day loathe the "unlimited ammo, auto-heal in cover" change in shooters...), TOR just got dumbed down a few months ago, TSW will get its new player experience this year, etc. etc. The only exception which tried to bring back old-school challenge was WS, and we all know how that experiment ended (and it wasn't even tough, just grindy as hell).

     

    That's the era of today, majority of the playerbase wants easy. Not over-easy, like HD was, after the uproar Turbine pulled back up the difficulty lever with one notch, but easy enough for the masses. You can hate it, or you can try to live with it (again, turtle stone ftw image), but it won't change soon... especially not if the industry trains new gamers with interactive movies and no-brainer, one-button action games. And why wouldn't they? Those titles sell...

    Add mobiles onto the mix (just check the list of 2014, there's the Kardashian mobile game among the AAA mmo's with making $200 million in 6 months) and you can guesstimate that challenge and difficulty is not where the industry is heading right now.

     

    In short, LotRO is just as easy as its fellow mmo rivals. And it's a sad state, but it's not LotRO's fault :)

     

    edit: AoC might be the only older game which wasn't easified to this level. It's easier than it was before RotG, but still can provide challenge whilst leveling, on the open. Not to mention the gazillion tiers at the endgame grind :) Not sure though, what will the upcoming big update brings to the table besides crafting revamp...

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