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Why have classes if the mmo is EXTREAMLY EASY !

delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,794

Yes, I made a post like this about a year ago.  But I really need an old school mmo since we have a lot of garbage games lately.

The EXTREAMLY EASY is totally game breaking.

How is this never discussed ?....Does no one else see a problem ?

You can 1 shot everything, if you do a group dungeon solo you can 3 shot everything.  Why have classes, and put abilities on your action bar if only one maybe two is all that's needed.

 

Why am I complaining ?......Well I really want this mmo !!!!.....I hate cash shop games, but I know there is a lot of " how to play " web sites for the cash shop and would love to invest what's need to play LOTRO.

 

This is game breaking for me.......is everyone ok with this ?

 

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Comments

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,794

    I would really like to play a Rune-Keeper.  I know full well that you have to buy the first expansion to play this.  But what good is a Rune-Keeper if it plays just like a Champion.

    It's that easy !

  • AthisarAthisar Member UncommonPosts: 666

    Being too easy is a problem with all MMO games I've played. In WoW for example levelling since WoD is so easy you barely have to pay any attention at all. I think it does get discussed a bit. Developers seem to think that all players want to get to the new areas/expansions immediately and practically skip everything before.

    In LOTRO it's an exaggeration to say you can one shot stuff though. If you're attacking something your own level it's maybe 3-4 attacks, anything above your level it quickly gets more difficult and soon impossible.

    My own solution is the experience disabler. I leave that on until I've completed the quests at my own level. The alternative, if I don't want to do some content, I can mostly just skip it and take only quests my level or higher - there's so much to do it's no issue. Of course you can also do quests that are at least a level higher than you, and these are much more challenging.

     

  • RobokappRobokapp Member RarePosts: 6,084

    and that's why we rush to endgame.

     

    leveling does not pose a challenge.

    image

  • marcmymarcmy Member UncommonPosts: 95
    This is just one of the reasons I'm not playing LOTRO anymore. They changed the class system completely, ramped up damage output numbers, but last I could tell they didn't really adjust the world mobs to accommodate for that change. This is something Turbine frequently had a problem with when I used to play. They'd make a change to one thing but leave something that is directly affected by it intact. Now, leveling isn't really challenging in any MMO, it's not meant to be. The group dungeons, raids, etc. which are usually at endgame is where the challenge should be. However, LOTRO has given up on that as well, and only scales the same instance clusters to level cap again and again. And that's the main reason I'm not playing anymore.

    Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,717
    Originally posted by delete5230

    How is this never discussed ?....Does no one else see a problem ?

    Maybe you missed it, but it was discussed to the teeth for months after HD launch, all the way through the two difficulty adjustment updates.

    Originally posted by delete5230
      This is game breaking for me.......is everyone ok with this ?

    Nope, very few folks were ok with it, hence the truckload of threads on the forums. But it was solved already... or more like "solved" in brackets, the game currently is not easier than other games when you're on-level. You are not one-shotting anything.

    The issue is (as Athisar mentioned too) is that it's really hard to stay on level... the game is literally drowning you in xp, and the levels are important in LotRO, you barely can hit a mob 6+ levels above you, and the game will turn into a walk in the park if the mobs are 3-4 levels below you. A whole zone is usually designed for advancing 10 levels, but nowadays you easily get those 10 levels by the time you reach the middle of the zone...

    So, +1 to what Athisar wrote, the only solution is the xp disabler (and the players were begged for that years too). Without the Turtle stone it's really hard to avoid being at least 1-2 levels above the content all the time - and with it having a faceroll-esque gameplay experience. Without the stone you could stop every zone in the middle and jumping to the next area, but that way you miss a lot of story and fun.

    Btw when you reach the end, you still can find some challenges there ;)

    Originally posted by delete5230

    But what good is a Rune-Keeper if it plays just like a Champion.

    image  Rk never was as easy as champs, not even after HD launch... and gameplay-wise they couldn't even be farther from each other :) (not to mention that champ is pretty easy all the way, while Rk has some issues at around lvl50 and beyond)

    I'd say try it, Rk is a nice class, and they can heal nicely too.

     

    edit: I must add, it's not a fault or bug, it's designed that way. Only a smaller ratio likes the challenge and the slow journey, everyone else wants an easy and quick rush towards the level cap (and it's not only LotRO's problem, simply that's the playerbase of today). So the devs try to give them a fast leveling route, and the others got the xp disabler.

  • bbethelbbethel Member UncommonPosts: 201

    I just recently came back to The Secret World. The questing in that game is not super easy. You have to read the quest they are not strait forward as you may think. My younger brother who is in his mid 20's also tried TSW with me. He is having a great time with it. He keeps asking me what to do in this quest or that quest. He came from WoW and has never played a game with quest you have to think about to complete. Now there are mixed in the normal quest here go kill X mobs but they are by far not what this game is focused on.

    If you are looking for a game that will make you think you should try TSW.

    The only thing that keeps this game from being great is the combat animation is not the greatest.

    Story and atmosphere amazing.

  • PepeqPepeq Member UncommonPosts: 1,977
    Originally posted by delete5230

    Yes, I made a post like this about a year ago.  But I really need an old school mmo since we have a lot of garbage games lately.

    The EXTREAMLY EASY is totally game breaking.

    How is this never discussed ?....Does no one else see a problem ?

    You can 1 shot everything, if you do a group dungeon solo you can 3 shot everything.  Why have classes, and put abilities on your action bar if only one maybe two is all that's needed.

     

    Why am I complaining ?......Well I really want this mmo !!!!.....I hate cash shop games, but I know there is a lot of " how to play " web sites for the cash shop and would love to invest what's need to play LOTRO.

     

    This is game breaking for me.......is everyone ok with this ?

     

    vanilla WoW, private server, no boost/perks... you will get killed

  • AthisarAthisar Member UncommonPosts: 666

    Yeah, as above, runekeeper and champion are absolutely nothing alike, and with mobs at your level you do need to use skills. If you get attacked by 2-3 at your level it's a very real challenge.

    Just the other day I did an epic storyline level 15 quest at 14 on a champion. I didn't die, but it wasn't really easy. If I hadn't been paying attention I'd definitely have died.

  • vadio123vadio123 Member UncommonPosts: 593

    Welcome to new era mmo are made for casual

    and none left for hardcore players ;) except old ones 

  • fivorothfivoroth Member UncommonPosts: 3,916

    Why do people assume that just because something is easy it can't be fun. I am mostly playing the game to explore the world, the lore and see the story.

    it is also very relaxing to play after I spent 12 hours working lol.

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • SatyrosSatyros Member UncommonPosts: 156
    Originally posted by fivoroth

    Why do people assume that just because something is easy it can't be fun. I am mostly playing the game to explore the world, the lore and see the story.

    it is also very relaxing to play after I spent 12 hours working lol.

     

    The problem is that developers started focusing on pleasing people like you.

    They focus so much that they totally forgot about the rest of us who like a challenge.

     

    I think there should exist games for both of us. Maybe now. with indie developers soemthing will happen.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,717
    Originally posted by Satyros
    Originally posted by fivoroth

    Why do people assume that just because something is easy it can't be fun. I am mostly playing the game to explore the world, the lore and see the story.

    it is also very relaxing to play after I spent 12 hours working lol.

     The problem is that developers started focusing on pleasing people like you.

    They focus so much that they totally forgot about the rest of us who like a challenge.

    Devs (and companies) are focusing onto the casual players because 1) they are the vast majority, and 2) their money worths the same as the hardcore folk's money.

    But I think it's not a problem, as I used to say option is king :) It's only a problem if there's no way left for finding challenge anymore, which is not the case for example in LotRO. Group content is still there, lvl100 is still tough, especially on higher tiers. During leveling if you stay on level with the content then it's not a faceroll either - xp disabler helps a lot in this department. (just check Club Slowtro, I'm not with them but tried that gamestyle for a bit, it's tough as a nail. Also great fun.)

     

    "Why not keeping that route the default, why is the easier route is the norm" that could be a valid question. I think it's all about accessibilty. This way a lot more players can enjoy the game, whils the smaller minority of challenge-seekers can have their fun too, with some extra legwork. The other way would restrict too many players, that's why every game is going toward the easy route lately. But again, until you can have the challenge, I don't think it's a problem.

    (I admit after HD launch I too raised voice against the over-easy gameplay, but they addressed the issue within the first updates.)

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,265
    Every MMO can be considered easy, the difficulty usually lies in the fights themselves, or the time / grind that you have to deal with. A lot of people cannot handle a grind that is long so that would be the difficult part in some older games like Lineage 2. But currently the leveling in almost every game consists of Kill this Kill that Collect this, it isn't ever unique unless it's WAY out there like TSW or Runescape both of which are really amazing to do quests in. Like other people said, the casual player is the majority, they are willing to spend more to get rid of barriers, whereas the niche smaller hardcore audiences are willing to pay but not nearly as much to avoid content.
  • lindhskylindhsky Member UncommonPosts: 161

    I hate it as well. I love LOTRO but since they did that big change to all the classes (or was it combat?) it turned out to be too easy. And they haven't tweaked it to normal again.

     

    The game used to be easy like all games, but not too easy. I remember I had some tough fights early on with my Loremaster back in the Days when they were dubbed as a weak class when it turned out they were great as you leveled up. I also remember that me and my brother had some problems in some orc area when we got a lot of adds. Fun times. Now you just kill Everything so fast that I stopped playing a long time ago.

     

    People complained about this when they did that update to classes or combat (don't remember exactly) but nothing happened. Too bad for LOTRO is one of the few games I actually get some kind of roleplaying feeling and one of the few games I don't need my friends to play to enjoy it.  

  • clumsytoes44clumsytoes44 Member UncommonPosts: 463

    Another way you can make the game challenging is run with lower level gear. Exp disabler is another good idea. And if you really want a challenge go warden :P

     

    Edit: the class revamp they did with helm's deep made every class easy mode for the most part.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,717
    Originally posted by lindhsky

    People complained about this when they did that update to classes or combat (don't remember exactly) but nothing happened. 

    Maybe you could give the game an another look :)

    After HD (when the game became ridiculously easy) there were plenty of complaining. Then came the first update, which swinged the pendulum to the other side, and the game became too hard (especially on some level ranges, and with some classes). There were truckloads of complaints, but this time from the other side, from the more casually players :) folks were wiped from a simple band of orcs on the field, and such. Then came update 2 which normalised the situation - more or less.

     

    I can only repeat myself, currently if you manage to stay on level (for example doing a lvl30 quest in an area with lvl29-31 mobs while you're lvl30) the game is not easier than any other mmorpg on the market.

    Yep, all of them are pretty easy, I know :) but that's not LotRO's fault... the whole genre is going towards easy.

    So grab a turtle stone, disable the xp gain and control your leveling speed. You can set the difficulty level anywhere you want. And if you outlevel the content, don't be surprised that the game becomes easy...

    edit: or go with the flow, and stroll through the game. Then you will still find your challenge at the end.

  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    Lotro wasn't always like this.  There used to be actual group quests that were nearly impossible to complete solo.  The problem with the group quests though, is that they had tiered progress on them, which made grouping for them a pain.  People were always on different parts of the group quests.  They finally made them solo due to this.  Doing deeds also required groups for the much harder ones.  There was a lot of group content that was pretty challenging, and also some solo stuff , but times changed and lotro adapted.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    and that's why we rush to endgame.

    leveling does not pose a challenge.

    Yeah, only question there is really why they bother with leveling at all?

    Don't get me wrong, leveling was really fun in games like M59 and EQ but when it is so easy a 5 year old can do it there is no point, just a long tutorial thta takes up precious game resources.

    The problem is that a few(or a large bunch, hard to say) loud and lousy playing people  always whine so much if they actually dies that the devs of any game nerf the difficulty to zero.

    Look on GW2, it was awesome at the beta but people actually died so some people (including some here, you know who you are) started a massive campaign to make the game insanely easy. At launch the difficulty of the open world got cut by 75% or so. And it didn't stop there, the dungeons got the same cut.

    This is a general problem and not something about LOTRO, there needs to be both hard and easy MMOs. If the devs want to have the players who really suck or hates challenges they need to add easy settings servers with lower droprate instead of nerfing the entire game.

    Come on, all really fun PvE moment have been when defeating something hard, not when you kill an legion of trashmobs without breaking a sweat.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,717
    Originally posted by observer
    Lotro wasn't always like this.  There used to be actual group quests that were nearly impossible to complete solo.  The problem with the group quests though, is that they had tiered progress on them, which made grouping for them a pain.  People were always on different parts of the group quests.  They finally made them solo due to this.  Doing deeds also required groups for the much harder ones.  There was a lot of group content that was pretty challenging, and also some solo stuff , but times changed and lotro adapted.

    Those are still in game :) doing them solo is just an option, if you can gather a group you still can do them the old way - and it's more fun too.

    The group quests in the open are still there, and those don't have the solo option (true, you can easily outlevel them and then going back solo, but you could do that in the past too).

    Group deeds are still there as well, with the same difficulty. Some of them are very tough even if outleveled (tried doing some CD deeds solo, with almost 20 levels above, and they ripped me a new one and handed it back to me image)

    LotRO is adapting, I agree, but you can still find challenge in there.

  • AthisarAthisar Member UncommonPosts: 666

    It's absolutely true that doing things at level with regular gear is not stupidly easy, but it could be harder. One alternative could be to have some quests marked as more challenging, with ones that can still be done solo, but with much tougher mobs.

    As Po_gg said, the game makes experience gain far too easy, which makes it too difficult to stay at level if you want to do more then the bare minimal content. Then on top Turbine has a habit of giving XP bonus months/weekends, which is absolutely unnecessary. Thankfully the XP disabler is quite cheap now (100 TP at full price), and if you want to do the epic storyline as well as a good set of quests it's basically essential if you want a challenge.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Satyros
    Originally posted by fivoroth

    Why do people assume that just because something is easy it can't be fun. I am mostly playing the game to explore the world, the lore and see the story.

    it is also very relaxing to play after I spent 12 hours working lol.

     

    The problem is that developers started focusing on pleasing people like you.

    They focus so much that they totally forgot about the rest of us who like a challenge.

     

    I think there should exist games for both of us. Maybe now. with indie developers soemthing will happen.

    The developers were able to quantify the size of the group they are developing for. If you feel "the rest of us" is a sizable enough number to build a specific MMO for, get your data to a dev, pronto!

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • fivorothfivoroth Member UncommonPosts: 3,916
    Originally posted by Satyros
    Originally posted by fivoroth

    Why do people assume that just because something is easy it can't be fun. I am mostly playing the game to explore the world, the lore and see the story.

    it is also very relaxing to play after I spent 12 hours working lol.

     

    The problem is that developers started focusing on pleasing people like you.

    They focus so much that they totally forgot about the rest of us who like a challenge.

     

    I think there should exist games for both of us. Maybe now. with indie developers soemthing will happen.

    MMOs never struck me as challenging. The only thing that I found even remotely challenging was raiding but that's too time consuming for me. I enjoy challenging games but sometimes I enjoy games like LOTRO which are immersive and have a good story. But yeah most other MMOs I find not challenging at all (same as LOTRO) but they have nothing else to offer - boring ass stories, uninspired worlds that no one cares about etc.

    Developers never started focusing on making MMOs easy. They were easy to begin with. The only challenging MMO I can think of was UO. The rest I could just faceroll my keyboard and still do well.

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,717
    Originally posted by Athisar

    Then on top Turbine has a habit of giving XP bonus months/weekends, which is absolutely unnecessary. Thankfully the XP disabler is quite cheap now (100 TP at full price)

    That's the point :) it's a win-win for Turbine, the not-challengers, the rushers, etc. will get a boost to advance faster / with it making the gameplay easier (with outleveling their current area), while those who want to advance slower, or seeking challenge can use the stone. AND those who don't have one, they will give their TP to Turbine for the stone :)

    called artificially creating / raising a demand for your supply.

  • AthisarAthisar Member UncommonPosts: 666
    Originally posted by Po_gg
    Originally posted by Athisar

    Then on top Turbine has a habit of giving XP bonus months/weekends, which is absolutely unnecessary. Thankfully the XP disabler is quite cheap now (100 TP at full price)

    That's the point :) it's a win-win for Turbine, the not-challengers, the rushers, etc. will get a boost to advance faster / with it making the gameplay easier (with outleveling their current area), while those who want to advance slower, or seeking challenge can use the stone. AND those who don't have one, they will give their TP to Turbine for the stone :)

    called artificially creating / raising a demand for your supply.

    That's one way of looking at it. I'd prefer the game to be a bit harder, with people who want to speed through able to use the various buffs available, and people who don't to be less reliant on the xp disabler.

    It'd be pretty easy for them to set certain quests as more challenging though. Quick levellers could just skip those.

  • lindhskylindhsky Member UncommonPosts: 161
    Originally posted by Po_gg
    Originally posted by lindhsky

    People complained about this when they did that update to classes or combat (don't remember exactly) but nothing happened. 

    Maybe you could give the game an another look :)

    After HD (when the game became ridiculously easy) there were plenty of complaining. Then came the first update, which swinged the pendulum to the other side, and the game became too hard (especially on some level ranges, and with some classes). There were truckloads of complaints, but this time from the other side, from the more casually players :) folks were wiped from a simple band of orcs on the field, and such. Then came update 2 which normalised the situation - more or less.

     

    I can only repeat myself, currently if you manage to stay on level (for example doing a lvl30 quest in an area with lvl29-31 mobs while you're lvl30) the game is not easier than any other mmorpg on the market.

    Yep, all of them are pretty easy, I know :) but that's not LotRO's fault... the whole genre is going towards easy.

    So grab a turtle stone, disable the xp gain and control your leveling speed. You can set the difficulty level anywhere you want. And if you outlevel the content, don't be surprised that the game becomes easy...

    edit: or go with the flow, and stroll through the game. Then you will still find your challenge at the end.

    Ok, I might just do that, thanks for the update. :)

     

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