- perfect for those on a fixed budget - they know what the game costs monthly and can usually pay ahead to get money off their mind completely while they play with multi-month subsciption plans
- better for people interested in building a lasting community
- since there is an entry fee, bots,trolls, and gold farmers are always reduced - those smart enough to segregate their trial players really keeps them at bay compared to free games where all doors are floodgates
- they work good for existing IPs because instead of selling cash shop items you can make money from merchandise too like collector art and t-shirts - see community above and the sense of the game being a true hobby instead of something dumped quickly for the newest free game
- because they have constant income they can keep constant staff around, this results in quicker reactions to customer concerns - when payments fluctuate in free games, staff would naturally be contract and only called in within their other contracting schedules - same for content development - constant money can result in constant updates and patches
- not one second is spent on or does any employee exist to work on an item mall, they can concentrate their development on the game content itself instead of what's for sale or worse, building the game around the item mall to force sales
- guesstimating next month's income is simpler for a company, each player that leaves or enters removes x dollars versus a free game where one person leaving could be 2,500.00 a month gone or 150.00 a month gone or 0.00 a month gone or anywhere in between or even above - imagine the sleepless nights when your whale paying thousands hasn't logged in for days - mofos are probably on a list in the office as the MVPs to respond to immediately
- server hardware is manageable because users are not going to fluctuate as much as when chunks of free players swarm off to the newest game or your game gets a viral interest - this means more stable servers because the load is known along with less servers to close or open leading to conversations about whether games are growing or dying
Those are the basics, lots of these things lead to other things like a hobby experience making better forum participation but I'll stop at the high-level view.
Yup, I only play sub games and freemium doesn't count.
MMORPG's in general are going away regardless of the model used. The problem is that it's far easier to develop an iPadd app game that is F2P than a full fledged MMORPG. A decent F2P iPad app game can make almost the same amount as a current MMORPG.
People love these casual games. Anyway, this will force MMORPG's to become niche games. As such the model isn't as important because you are already dealing with a niche audience. In fact when you start talking about niche audiences the sup plan works better because you won't have as many people playing your game.
2015 releases a ton of Cash Shop MMO's and we'll have to see how they do.
It is not only about app games ... there are also competition from other types of online games. Even Blizz is no longer making new AAA MMOs.
MMORPG's in general are going away regardless of the model used. The problem is that it's far easier to develop an iPadd app game that is F2P than a full fledged MMORPG. A decent F2P iPad app game can make almost the same amount as a current MMORPG.
People love these casual games. Anyway, this will force MMORPG's to become niche games. As such the model isn't as important because you are already dealing with a niche audience. In fact when you start talking about niche audiences the sup plan works better because you won't have as many people playing your game.
2015 releases a ton of Cash Shop MMO's and we'll have to see how they do.
It is not only about app games ... there are also competition from other types of online games. Even Blizz is no longer making new AAA MMOs.
So what you are saying is MMORPG's are dying. That's why Blizzard isn't making another one?
MMORPG's in general are going away regardless of the model used. The problem is that it's far easier to develop an iPadd app game that is F2P than a full fledged MMORPG. A decent F2P iPad app game can make almost the same amount as a current MMORPG.
People love these casual games. Anyway, this will force MMORPG's to become niche games. As such the model isn't as important because you are already dealing with a niche audience. In fact when you start talking about niche audiences the sup plan works better because you won't have as many people playing your game.
2015 releases a ton of Cash Shop MMO's and we'll have to see how they do.
It is not only about app games ... there are also competition from other types of online games. Even Blizz is no longer making new AAA MMOs.
So what you are saying is MMORPG's are dying. That's why Blizzard isn't making another one?
That is what they are always saying. They will now go on about their single player agenda and so on... mmo's are not a success and that is why everybody especially blizzard is going the single player route.
I find it best to interact with this person like they interact in mmo's... ignore any contact with them and pretend they are non-existent.
MMORPG's in general are going away regardless of the model used. The problem is that it's far easier to develop an iPadd app game that is F2P than a full fledged MMORPG. A decent F2P iPad app game can make almost the same amount as a current MMORPG.
People love these casual games. Anyway, this will force MMORPG's to become niche games. As such the model isn't as important because you are already dealing with a niche audience. In fact when you start talking about niche audiences the sup plan works better because you won't have as many people playing your game.
2015 releases a ton of Cash Shop MMO's and we'll have to see how they do.
It is not only about app games ... there are also competition from other types of online games. Even Blizz is no longer making new AAA MMOs.
So what you are saying is MMORPG's are dying. That's why Blizzard isn't making another one?
I am not saying anything ... i am pointing out that blizz killed the one they were making, and now make other types of online games.
I don't work for Blizz, i can only speculate why. But if you look at the market and see so few AAA development in traditional MMORPG, i would not bet money on a bright future for them. Other types of online games like MOBA and instanced combat games seem to be catching all the attention now.
Subscription gaming should always be there, as long as there is value in it. By this, I mean your subscription nets content that you dont have to wait a year for. If a game does not bring content into the game within 6-7 month time period, then I would say its not worth it.
A lot of people harp on about F2P based gaming, but the problem with this is that the only way that this can be managed in a fair manner is with vanity, cosmetics and other quality of life items which basically means that 1% of the population fund the game time of every other cheap ass out there.
I know people that would never spend a dime on F2P gaming, their only desire is to be entertained for free and they scoff at the idea of buying digital based goods. With this mentality in mind, the quality of the game is not assured. Of course, creating a game where pay walls are in place, creates a very hostile game for non-payers and is likely to turn them off it.
So, subscription model is fine, just as I pay for Netflix for entertainment I am also happy to pay for an MMO to entertain me, as long as they keep brining me content.
I should also say, that £8.99 (the average sub cost) is MORE than reasonable for a months worth of potential entertainment it is fee that even if you are on minimun wage can afford to pay. I know, because when I started a new job I had a probation period which had me at min wage and I was comfortable. If you cannot afford a sub, then some things in your life have gone very very wrong and you need to treat those things as your priority and get resolved before thinking about purchasing a sub, but even still games like Neverwinter and Star Trek are fun to play whilst you get back on your feet.
No. It filters out the ass hats. I'd rather play a game with 100 good people than 1000 ass hats. Sadly though someone is going to buy something which costs more than a sub in a f2p game and be happy with it so from a dev point of view we're only going to see more f2p cash shops and even sub cash shop games.
I don't understand why threads like these are created, unless it is to gain popularity....but here goes....
No. Like the person before me...it weeds out F2P asshats and the like. It was/is/always will be the best choice for a serious community. The games last longer. Most stay around forever.
I am most likely to pay into another MMO with a P2P model than any other.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Originally posted by emperorwings No. It filters out the ass hats. I'd rather play a game with 100 good people than 1000 ass hats. Sadly though someone is going to buy something which costs more than a sub in a f2p game and be happy with it so from a dev point of view we're only going to see more f2p cash shops and even sub cash shop games.
Paying $15 does not eliminate asshats at all.
It helps. It's like a free-to-enter bar or a club with a cover and dress code. Granted there are jerks in the club, but they behave a little better.
Originally posted by emperorwings No. It filters out the ass hats. I'd rather play a game with 100 good people than 1000 ass hats. Sadly though someone is going to buy something which costs more than a sub in a f2p game and be happy with it so from a dev point of view we're only going to see more f2p cash shops and even sub cash shop games.
Paying $15 does not eliminate asshats at all.
Are you really seriously saying that?
Of course it does. Always has. Once the asshats have to keep up a sub, I'll bet 90% go away. Not all, but no one said all.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Originally posted by emperorwings No. It filters out the ass hats. I'd rather play a game with 100 good people than 1000 ass hats. Sadly though someone is going to buy something which costs more than a sub in a f2p game and be happy with it so from a dev point of view we're only going to see more f2p cash shops and even sub cash shop games.
Paying $15 does not eliminate asshats at all.
Are you really seriously saying that?
Of course it does. Always has. Once the asshats have to keep up a sub, I'll bet 90% go away. Not all, but no one said all.
It doesn't - but it's a nice myth.
I've met more asshats in my time on P2P EQ1 servers than I did after it went F2P - same game but community improved over the years because mature players stuck around and asshats moved on.
Not a myth...and you know it
But I will agree that you still meet them everywhere. But if you think the number doesn't shrink WAY more than other models....yer delusional
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
No payment model should 'go away'. They all have their advantages and disadvantages, and the developers and / or publishers should use the one they feel works best with what they're offering.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
Originally posted by emperorwings No. It filters out the ass hats. I'd rather play a game with 100 good people than 1000 ass hats. Sadly though someone is going to buy something which costs more than a sub in a f2p game and be happy with it so from a dev point of view we're only going to see more f2p cash shops and even sub cash shop games.
Paying $15 does not eliminate asshats at all, what it does bring however is entitled players who think that devs should lick the soles of their shoes because they paid measly 15 bucks
Seriously - how many times have you read *I am paying monthly for this, why is X,Y,Z not working.... blah blah blah", why are servers down when I pay... complaints complaints complaints.
The attitude should be - well I only paid $15 - so I guess I can't expect much for that, right? - How many P2P players have this attitude?
Like next to none - they all expect the devs to deliver nirvana to them 24/7
IMO it is the current generation that seems entitled and you can certainly see a lot of that sense of entitlement within the freeloader crowd.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Look at the list of all MMO games - the number of sub only games to is growing smaller every day.
It *is* going away.
You know, if you wanted to use that for marketing you can use it when a new game comes out.
Sayyyy there are 4 sub games right now.
One new sub game gets made this new year- the statistic is now 25% increase in subscription games this year! Subscription games are HOT hot HOT!
hehehe
Umm - look past AAA games - look at all MMOs being released globally - sub games are a tiny % and it's declining every year.
Reality check
That was a joke but lookie here - I found 4 sub games on the game list for a 2015 release - reality check for you, numbers trump your condescending tone. If these make it to the stage there will be more subscription games released than there were the previous year, indubitably.
[Development] Origins Of Malu [Development] Embers of Caerus [Development] Neo's Land [Development] The Black Watchm.. BT AD2460 Sci-Fi Fifth ..
Triple AAA are not the only games in existence but you can try narrowing down anything to make up stuff. Ohmaguard - how many sci-fi dungeon crawler AAA release yearly, it's doomed, doomed.
I've been saying for a while Indies are the shining stars for sub games - as long as it stays healthy I'll try them. Why do I need AAA. I don't have the best video card and I don't spend 5k on a new computer yearly. I'd rather enjoy a game and be considered a niche player like those in EVE than play a game where I look at the people around me as peasants or blowhards.
I don't think sub model is going away, there just is a disproportionate amount of generic ahab (whale hunting) games. But as to why I'm replying here specifically, EoC is vaporware, NeoLand is..not on my radar, OoM, while it looks good in theory is in the "we're having trouble in kickstarter" land, and Black Watchmen is an ARG, which you can already play for free here...
Look at the list of all MMO games - the number of sub only games to is growing smaller every day.
It *is* going away.
You know, if you wanted to use that for marketing you can use it when a new game comes out.
Sayyyy there are 4 sub games right now.
One new sub game gets made this new year- the statistic is now 25% increase in subscription games this year! Subscription games are HOT hot HOT!
hehehe
Umm - look past AAA games - look at all MMOs being released globally - sub games are a tiny % and it's declining every year.
Reality check
That was a joke but lookie here - I found 4 sub games on the game list for a 2015 release - reality check for you, numbers trump your condescending tone. If these make it to the stage there will be more subscription games released than there were the previous year, indubitably.
[Development] Origins Of Malu [Development] Embers of Caerus [Development] Neo's Land [Development] The Black Watchm.. BT AD2460 Sci-Fi Fifth ..
P2P is infinitely easier for devs to make
- don't need to code a platform to run the cash shop
- don't need a BI team to monetize the game
- don't need analytics software to track player spending and trends
- don't need additional devs to make store items
- don't need to hire additional CS staff to handle purchasing/charge back issues with micro transactions
cash shop requires a lot more dev time - and many smaller studios simply don't have the resources to do it - so they go P2P while they're working on the platform + cash shop integration
Yes F2P + cash shop is a LOT more complicated than just billing folks every 1,3, 6 months
AAA dev studios with robust platform systems (SoE, NCSoft, Trion, Blizzard etc...) have spent tens of millions of dollars on systems that run their cash shops.
This cost is greater than most indie dev studios have several times over for their entire GAME budget -
Cash shop is a template....no time but testing needed (thought you knew that)
Then again Im not sure this argument holds water at all as most just refuse to believe reality. Subs are not going away.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Comments
No, as long as the P2P games stay away from an itemsshop they are a good alternative to the others.
When they do sell stuff they kinda takes away the point and B2P or F2P would be a better alternative for us players.
The model that need to go is the so called "Freemium" model, it eats the cake and keep it at the same time.
I'd much rather have a sub than constantly be advertised to in a f2p game.
Funny thing about F2P games.
People that actually spend money on them tend to pay more than 14.99 a month.
But no it shouldn't go anywhere. It just needs to be worth it.
I think this sums it up very well.
It is not only about app games ... there are also competition from other types of online games. Even Blizz is no longer making new AAA MMOs.
So what you are saying is MMORPG's are dying. That's why Blizzard isn't making another one?
That is what they are always saying. They will now go on about their single player agenda and so on... mmo's are not a success and that is why everybody especially blizzard is going the single player route.
I find it best to interact with this person like they interact in mmo's... ignore any contact with them and pretend they are non-existent.
I am not saying anything ... i am pointing out that blizz killed the one they were making, and now make other types of online games.
I don't work for Blizz, i can only speculate why. But if you look at the market and see so few AAA development in traditional MMORPG, i would not bet money on a bright future for them. Other types of online games like MOBA and instanced combat games seem to be catching all the attention now.
Subscription gaming should always be there, as long as there is value in it. By this, I mean your subscription nets content that you dont have to wait a year for. If a game does not bring content into the game within 6-7 month time period, then I would say its not worth it.
A lot of people harp on about F2P based gaming, but the problem with this is that the only way that this can be managed in a fair manner is with vanity, cosmetics and other quality of life items which basically means that 1% of the population fund the game time of every other cheap ass out there.
I know people that would never spend a dime on F2P gaming, their only desire is to be entertained for free and they scoff at the idea of buying digital based goods. With this mentality in mind, the quality of the game is not assured. Of course, creating a game where pay walls are in place, creates a very hostile game for non-payers and is likely to turn them off it.
So, subscription model is fine, just as I pay for Netflix for entertainment I am also happy to pay for an MMO to entertain me, as long as they keep brining me content.
I should also say, that £8.99 (the average sub cost) is MORE than reasonable for a months worth of potential entertainment it is fee that even if you are on minimun wage can afford to pay. I know, because when I started a new job I had a probation period which had me at min wage and I was comfortable. If you cannot afford a sub, then some things in your life have gone very very wrong and you need to treat those things as your priority and get resolved before thinking about purchasing a sub, but even still games like Neverwinter and Star Trek are fun to play whilst you get back on your feet.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Sinister Savant MMORPG Community
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
I don't understand why threads like these are created, unless it is to gain popularity....but here goes....
No. Like the person before me...it weeds out F2P asshats and the like. It was/is/always will be the best choice for a serious community. The games last longer. Most stay around forever.
I am most likely to pay into another MMO with a P2P model than any other.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
It helps. It's like a free-to-enter bar or a club with a cover and dress code. Granted there are jerks in the club, but they behave a little better.
Are you really seriously saying that?
Of course it does. Always has. Once the asshats have to keep up a sub, I'll bet 90% go away. Not all, but no one said all.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Not a myth...and you know it
But I will agree that you still meet them everywhere. But if you think the number doesn't shrink WAY more than other models....yer delusional
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
No payment model should 'go away'. They all have their advantages and disadvantages, and the developers and / or publishers should use the one they feel works best with what they're offering.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
IMO it is the current generation that seems entitled and you can certainly see a lot of that sense of entitlement within the freeloader crowd.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I don't think sub model is going away, there just is a disproportionate amount of generic ahab (whale hunting) games. But as to why I'm replying here specifically, EoC is vaporware, NeoLand is..not on my radar, OoM, while it looks good in theory is in the "we're having trouble in kickstarter" land, and Black Watchmen is an ARG, which you can already play for free here...
http://www.division-66.com/terminal/bw01/
...but it really helps to have working understanding and knowledge of TSW, because it is a cooperative with Funcom, in that game's canon.
Cash shop is a template....no time but testing needed (thought you knew that)
Then again Im not sure this argument holds water at all as most just refuse to believe reality. Subs are not going away.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."