The fact that there are people who actually didn't understand what a great tool labor usage could have been makes me very sad for the future of mmo gamming indeed ...if labor pots had never become a cash shop item and off/on line labor regeneration was the same amount this would have been a major step forward .
Unfortunately there seems to be enough childish spoon fed mmo players that we all will get a steady diet of themepark WOW clone games for the next ten years .
The entire point of labor is to be a progression pay-gate.
If regeneration was higher and it wasn't in the cash shop then it would have no point in the game.
I assume you are one of those people who hates balanced games and prefers massive gear imbalances - no need to worry, the RNG crafting casino and low drop rates of rare materials prevents people from getting BiS far better than labor ever did.
Arbitrary progression caps are the most brain dead ways to design a balanced economy.
Well you assumed wrong ....in more ways than one . How the hell can you twist having a limit amount of labor into wanting to have massive gear imbalances ? If anything controlled labor would force folks to actually farm GHA ....Hasla ...or Auroria for gear and credit card crafters would have had to spend gold for labor not cash for labor
Arbitrary progression caps aren't there to balance the economy ....it's to control the solo centric Bis whores .
Originally posted by TiamatRoar Labor is for $$$$. There's a reason why R2Games encouraged implementing that sort of system in their "How to Fish for Whales" business presentation.
Thanks for the insight .....it's always good to get a professional opinion on these topics
Originally posted by Bad.dog Originally posted by TiamatRoarLabor is for $$$$. There's a reason why R2Games encouraged implementing that sort of system in their "How to Fish for Whales" business presentation.
Thanks for the insight .....it's always good to get a professional opinion on these topics labor potions is there if you need emergency LP was probably made for f2p player in mind and has little to do with money. disregard r2 games presentation, it have really little to share with mmorpgs actually
On the topic of Labor, it could be better, could be worse.
I like that it helps casuals stay in the game and adds a new dynamic to the game into different services you can provide others. I can purchase logs and produce lumber for people and make a profit especially If i was the one who also grew the trees and chopped the wood. There are many other examples of this.
I don't like that it is account bound, it should be character bound. The buying six labor potions for all my alts so I can have double labor as a regular patron is such a stupid workaround centered around more money for Trion/XL.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
It has a chance if they get rid of labor and rng. Mmo players want to play whenever they want to, not just when labor permits. Mmo players dont want a huge chance that their gear progression will be rolled back by weeks every time they get a potential upgrade.
Originally posted by TiamatRoarLabor is for $$$$. There's a reason why R2Games encouraged implementing that sort of system in their "How to Fish for Whales" business presentation.
Thanks for the insight .....it's always good to get a professional opinion on these topics
labor potions is there if you need emergency LP was probably made for f2p player in mind and has little to do with money. disregard r2 games presentation, it have really little to share with mmorpgs actually
If it was made for the F2P player in mind, why is it in the CASH shop? And/or why is it buyable with loyalty points, that you get for being a PAID patron?
I say you should disregard this person's advice to disregard R2Games' presentation due to not containing any arguments backing up why R2Games' presentation can't apply to MMOs.
I'm not against labor, its almost imperative for creating a demand in a player driver economy and it also helps the casuals stay relevant. Without labor, you have to make each type of crafting excessively grindy or limit the number characters per account and implement tradeskill caps.
What I am against is the way they intentionally limited labor so severely in order to then sell labor and allow players to use multiple labor pots across 6 characters every 12 hours. Its shady and effectively circumvents the entire system of progression and is THE reason ArcheAge has been branded a Pay to Win waste of time. The crafting system is built on excessive RNG in order to herd the cattle into the marketplace to buy more labor to continue crafting or earning gold.
The honest crafting and progression system for Archeage would be to simply require more materials, or make materials harder to acquire and eliminate the whole randomness factor altogether. One would not necessarily be harder than the other, but it would prevent players from being able to pay to win, and would prevent punishing players who get bad rolls.
Just an example, it personally took me 7 tries to upgrade my Halcyona necklace to rank 5, while everyone I played with were already on rank 7 or higher. The honest way of progressing this necklace would be to simply require 10x the tokens to upgrade, and guarantee success. Instead they shit on players like myself, and end up losing 100s of dollars when I left due to excessive RNG (thousands since when I left, so did 20 other people including a guy that had already spent 3 grand on the game.)
Just an example, it personally took me 7 tries to upgrade my Halcyona necklace to rank 5, while everyone I played with were already on rank 7 or higher. The honest way of progressing this necklace would be to simply require 10x the tokens to upgrade, and guarantee success. Instead they shit on players like myself, and end up losing 100s of dollars when I left due to excessive RNG (thousands since when I left, so did 20 other people including a guy that had already spent 3 grand on the game.)
They do it that way because even with people leaving over the RNG, they still get more money in that short time frame those people were around paying to beat the RNG than they would had those people stuck around in an RNG-less system (unless they kept the "true" costs the same on average, but they won't do that because the true average costs, as shown by the math some people have done, are insane)
That people will leave the game over it and thus that the game will have a shortened life span is an acceptable loss to them in the name of greater profit. Again, this is outright championed in R2Games' business presentation on the matter.
It amazes me people still defend the labor system. Labor isn't required, yes you can play without it but the game gets old real quick. All that's left to do is pvp and there are a lot of games out there that do pvp much better than AA. Oh, and the pvp is totally gear dependent, best gear p2wins!
Sailing around on a boat is fun for maybe a day (don't fish tho....that takes labor).
No, the end game is crafting, this is where the best gear, potions, items are. To craft end game stuff you need truckloads of gold, an obscene amount of labor and the same amount of luck needed to become a lotto winner. RNG might excite some players, but to me and the vast majority of players who fled this game, the RNG is a crappy, joyless frustrating system.
The only other feasible option is to whip out the credit card. But even the whales are starting to get bored of the game now.
It amazes me people still defend the labor system. Labor isn't required, yes you can play without it but the game gets old real quick. All that's left to do is pvp and there are a lot of games out there that do pvp much better than AA. Oh, and the pvp is totally gear dependent, best gear p2wins!
Sailing around on a boat is fun for maybe a day (don't fish tho....that takes labor).
No, the end game is crafting, this is where the best gear, potions, items are. To craft end game stuff you need truckloads of gold, an obscene amount of labor and the same amount of luck needed to become a lotto winner. RNG might excite some players, but to me and the vast majority of players who fled this game, the RNG is a crappy, joyless frustrating system.
The only other feasible option is to whip out the credit card. But even the whales are starting to get bored of the game now.
If they are getting bored its probably because of the frequency which they need to whip out said credit card in order to successfully craft their weapon/armour of choice. And in this case, he who is prepared to pay the most, is the likely victor.
IMO , there are change that ArcheAge NA will never see the next new year.
Thing just too mess. The skeleton still good , but the flesh is all rotten now . It will take while to the zombie die , but soon .
There are no hope for this game now .
As expected , the labor system kill the game too fast.
Only thing they can do now is merge servers , but it will be hard since people spend too much on lands, I expect a lots whale will quit if the merge happen .
Just an example, it personally took me 7 tries to upgrade my Halcyona necklace to rank 5, while everyone I played with were already on rank 7 or higher. The honest way of progressing this necklace would be to simply require 10x the tokens to upgrade, and guarantee success. Instead they shit on players like myself, and end up losing 100s of dollars when I left due to excessive RNG (thousands since when I left, so did 20 other people including a guy that had already spent 3 grand on the game.)
They do it that way because even with people leaving over the RNG, they still get more money in that short time frame those people were around paying to beat the RNG than they would had those people stuck around in an RNG-less system (unless they kept the "true" costs the same on average, but they won't do that because the true average costs, as shown by the math some people have done, are insane)
That people will leave the game over it and thus that the game will have a shortened life span is an acceptable loss to them in the name of greater profit. Again, this is outright championed in R2Games' business presentation on the matter.
I know thats why they do it, but I do not believe they stand to make more money. I was in a 50 man guild that, upon starting beta was ready to play this game for the next X years. Even with some new ideas out there in development, theres nothing on the horizon and we were all ready to go hard on this for a very very long time. Most other ArcheAge fans were feeling the same way. They gambled and lost. Long term success = more profit.
It amazes me people still defend the labor system. Labor isn't required, yes you can play without it but the game gets old real quick. All that's left to do is pvp and there are a lot of games out there that do pvp much better than AA. Oh, and the pvp is totally gear dependent, best gear p2wins!
Sailing around on a boat is fun for maybe a day (don't fish tho....that takes labor).
No, the end game is crafting, this is where the best gear, potions, items are. To craft end game stuff you need truckloads of gold, an obscene amount of labor and the same amount of luck needed to become a lotto winner. RNG might excite some players, but to me and the vast majority of players who fled this game, the RNG is a crappy, joyless frustrating system.
The only other feasible option is to whip out the credit card. But even the whales are starting to get bored of the game now.
I agree with everything you said except for labor. Labor isn't the cause of the problem (RNG P2W). Labor has been done well in other games and it promoted player interdependence without holding back most players. Its just severely limited in AA to force players to spend more money.
It amazes me people still defend the labor system. Labor isn't required, yes you can play without it but the game gets old real quick. All that's left to do is pvp and there are a lot of games out there that do pvp much better than AA. Oh, and the pvp is totally gear dependent, best gear p2wins!
Sailing around on a boat is fun for maybe a day (don't fish tho....that takes labor).
No, the end game is crafting, this is where the best gear, potions, items are. To craft end game stuff you need truckloads of gold, an obscene amount of labor and the same amount of luck needed to become a lotto winner. RNG might excite some players, but to me and the vast majority of players who fled this game, the RNG is a crappy, joyless frustrating system.
The only other feasible option is to whip out the credit card. But even the whales are starting to get bored of the game now.
I agree with everything you said except for labor. Labor isn't the cause of the problem (RNG P2W). Labor has been done well in other games and it promoted player interdependence without holding back most players. Its just severely limited in AA to force players to spend more money.
I don't remember any MMORPG with labor system like Archeage , aside from farmville or the same kind which can't count as MMORPG.
Or you talk about the "limit number of time for enter dungeon"
In many cases , only Archeage use such broken system.
RNG is suck for whale , if you willing to spend a lots , it not problem
but labor suck for the rest of player base of Archeage. You can't play as you want without large among labor consume.
Mine ,farm , trading , craft , fishing all out of question as you out of labor . Some make gold by making buff potions , but if there are no people who make gold (trading , fishing) then where did you get gold from ?
NA Archeage can't be cure now. It will stand for little longer but as a zombie.
I write those words because Archeage have change to become something big , but in the end it become just another zombie .
I've never played AA, but I do like PotBS, which has had a labor system in place for years. PotBS is a pirate game, and is heavily gear (ship) dependent. Normally, the person with the better ship wins, barring a few factors (some really fast and small ships can outrun a larger more powerful ship).
The labor system works in crafting, and is measured in time. You accumulate labor points at the same rate, whether logged in or not. F2P gets the same labor points, but is limited to 2 econ slots (2 factories, workshops, mines, etc) instead of 10 for a paying player.
- you need a lumber yard to chop down trees, it takes labor to do this, each lumberyard tracks its own labor
- you need a mill to make planks from the trees, this takes labor at the lumbermill
- then to make cannons, masts, sails, hulls, etc, all takes labor, at the respective factories/shops/farms/shipyards.
Obviously, labor points restrict how much you can build in a day, and to make a large ship-of-the-line would take a guild quite a bit of time. However, you cannot buy more labor in the cash shop, and the points are tied to the factory/shop/farm, not to the player. There is also a maximum amount that can be stored (3 days) at each site.
There is no RNG, when you make something from a recipe, you always make it. The labor points just limit how much any one player can make in a day. Typically, you can burn up your labor points at a shop/mill/mine/factory/etc in just a few minutes of play time, so the act of crafting itself is not much. However, transporting the goods to the right location (only a few ports can make large ships) takes time, running missions, ratting, PvP'ing, fleeting, all take the rest.
TL;DR PotBS has had a good labor system in place for years, with no labor pts in the cash shop.
I think AA will still plug along but people will come and go. I'm giving up my sub and my beloved little farm and thatched farmhouse. Heck at this point, I can't even give it away to my guild mates. Many have left or are just logging on periodically to pay their taxes and log off.
The game certainly had potential and I had a great deal of fun for the first few months. I just can't shake the feeling that Trion's heart and soul is behind it as publishers. Just little things like voices still not translated makes me think of a shoddy game that will never get much development support.
The landscape still seems full of properties but I don't see much activity at this point and chat is dead except for the few trolls or gold sellers. I think many folks are still holding on to see what the miraculous patch will bring. Me, I'm moving on to games that offer me a bit more fun. Want for fish for hours and hours without managing my labor points....I can do that in other games.
If there are any new players thinking about trying out the game, give me a PM. I will be more than happy to pull up some of my properties.
I've never played AA, but I do like PotBS, which has had a labor system in place for years. PotBS is a pirate game, and is heavily gear (ship) dependent. Normally, the person with the better ship wins, barring a few factors (some really fast and small ships can outrun a larger more powerful ship).
The labor system works in crafting, and is measured in time. You accumulate labor points at the same rate, whether logged in or not. F2P gets the same labor points, but is limited to 2 econ slots (2 factories, workshops, mines, etc) instead of 10 for a paying player.
- you need a lumber yard to chop down trees, it takes labor to do this, each lumberyard tracks its own labor
- you need a mill to make planks from the trees, this takes labor at the lumbermill
- then to make cannons, masts, sails, hulls, etc, all takes labor, at the respective factories/shops/farms/shipyards.
Obviously, labor points restrict how much you can build in a day, and to make a large ship-of-the-line would take a guild quite a bit of time. However, you cannot buy more labor in the cash shop, and the points are tied to the factory/shop/farm, not to the player. There is also a maximum amount that can be stored (3 days) at each site.
There is no RNG, when you make something from a recipe, you always make it. The labor points just limit how much any one player can make in a day. Typically, you can burn up your labor points at a shop/mill/mine/factory/etc in just a few minutes of play time, so the act of crafting itself is not much. However, transporting the goods to the right location (only a few ports can make large ships) takes time, running missions, ratting, PvP'ing, fleeting, all take the rest.
TL;DR PotBS has had a good labor system in place for years, with no labor pts in the cash shop.
Archage Laborsystem is similar to what you described.
Exception is F2P dosn't get same amount and max pool is smaller what makes perfect sense since subbed players pay subscription.
But if F2P players want to have more Labour and dont want to spend subscription on something that needs mantainece and has costs to be run then they need to buy labor points to keep up with the subbed players. The downtime for use is 12h so max is 2 per day and they get about the amount the miss not being a patron aka having payed for sub.
Now with the RNG part there is something funny. There is is saying "death the great equalizer" and so is the RNG regarding poor, f2p, subbed, rich, casual, hardcore, basement dweller etc player in Archeage.
The funny point is if people TRY Pay to Win and loose because of the "great equalizer" RNG.
So, yes i welcome the labor points, its a masterpiece.
I like the RNG as an counter to cash shop Any MMORPG should have RNG if it also has a cash shop, else it would be a Pay to Win game.
Probably the biggest difference is that AA requires labor points to do many things, like fishing, opening chests, etc, where PotBS only uses it for crafting. And there's no way to increase it in the cash shop. You can make lots of F2P alts, each with just 2 econ slots, to build up your production line, but there's no way to share labor across the accts.
Originally posted by Erda I think AA will still plug along but people will come and go. I'm giving up my sub and my beloved little farm and thatched farmhouse. Heck at this point, I can't even give it away to my guild mates. Many have left or are just logging on periodically to pay their taxes and log off.The game certainly had potential and I had a great deal of fun for the first few months. I just can't shake the feeling that Trion's heart and soul is behind it as publishers. Just little things like voices still not translated makes me think of a shoddy game that will never get much development support.The landscape still seems full of properties but I don't see much activity at this point and chat is dead except for the few trolls or gold sellers. I think many folks are still holding on to see what the miraculous patch will bring. Me, I'm moving on to games that offer me a bit more fun. Want for fish for hours and hours without managing my labor points....I can do that in other games.If there are any new players thinking about trying out the game, give me a PM. I will be more than happy to pull up some of my properties.
I gave up my sub, house and farms for the freedom to come and go as I please. I have the mats to make a clipper or farm hauler but so far have not had the time or inclination to bother.
Re the incomplete localization, Trion posted several months ago that the translations were complete and the rest was left on purpose to retain the Korean flavor. While you and I might not agree with that decision, it is complete (except for the odd glitch here and there on tooltips).
Trion/XL makes the mistake of thinking consumers in Asia and NA are more or less the same.
In Asia, selling potions in the cash shop for X is a very common thing and more or less accepted (but 99% of the games there are F2P).
But that is not the case with customers in NA, especially for those that pay a sub equivalent. Needing to buy labor potions on top of paying a "sub" is insulting, and a lot of Western players won't tolerate that.
Even the fools at EA that are running TOR got that bit right, all of the "gameplay" restrictions are on F2P players, pay the sub and have access to all the gameplay (not cosmetic) elements.
Which is too bad, because AA is a far deeper game than TOR, but the business/payment model and game management have driven it into the ground for all but the remaining hardcore AA fans.
It amazes me people still defend the labor system. Labor isn't required, yes you can play without it but the game gets old real quick. All that's left to do is pvp and there are a lot of games out there that do pvp much better than AA. Oh, and the pvp is totally gear dependent, best gear p2wins!
Sailing around on a boat is fun for maybe a day (don't fish tho....that takes labor).
No, the end game is crafting, this is where the best gear, potions, items are. To craft end game stuff you need truckloads of gold, an obscene amount of labor and the same amount of luck needed to become a lotto winner. RNG might excite some players, but to me and the vast majority of players who fled this game, the RNG is a crappy, joyless frustrating system.
The only other feasible option is to whip out the credit card. But even the whales are starting to get bored of the game now.
I agree with everything you said except for labor. Labor isn't the cause of the problem (RNG P2W). Labor has been done well in other games and it promoted player interdependence without holding back most players. Its just severely limited in AA to force players to spend more money.
Lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Wut? Which games you are talking about?
Age of Wushu for one.
The only problem with the system in AA was that the amount of labor was ridiculously low considering EVERYTHING costs labor. I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a game where everything used labor, and it recovered so slowly. Theres no question they did it to allow people to purchase the power of labor. Why else would they leave the ability to use potions on 6 character when the entire playerbase hated selling labor in the first place? Don't get it twisted. As long as a game allows you to master every craft, its imperative that there be some system preventing you from crafting all day and flooding the market.
Comments
Well you assumed wrong ....in more ways than one . How the hell can you twist having a limit amount of labor into wanting to have massive gear imbalances ? If anything controlled labor would force folks to actually farm GHA ....Hasla ...or Auroria for gear and credit card crafters would have had to spend gold for labor not cash for labor
Arbitrary progression caps aren't there to balance the economy ....it's to control the solo centric Bis whores .
Thanks for the insight .....it's always good to get a professional opinion on these topics
labor potions is there if you need emergency LP was probably made for f2p player in mind and has little to do with money. disregard r2 games presentation, it have really little to share with mmorpgs actually
On the topic of Labor, it could be better, could be worse.
I like that it helps casuals stay in the game and adds a new dynamic to the game into different services you can provide others. I can purchase logs and produce lumber for people and make a profit especially If i was the one who also grew the trees and chopped the wood. There are many other examples of this.
I don't like that it is account bound, it should be character bound. The buying six labor potions for all my alts so I can have double labor as a regular patron is such a stupid workaround centered around more money for Trion/XL.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
If it was made for the F2P player in mind, why is it in the CASH shop? And/or why is it buyable with loyalty points, that you get for being a PAID patron?
I say you should disregard this person's advice to disregard R2Games' presentation due to not containing any arguments backing up why R2Games' presentation can't apply to MMOs.
I'm not against labor, its almost imperative for creating a demand in a player driver economy and it also helps the casuals stay relevant. Without labor, you have to make each type of crafting excessively grindy or limit the number characters per account and implement tradeskill caps.
What I am against is the way they intentionally limited labor so severely in order to then sell labor and allow players to use multiple labor pots across 6 characters every 12 hours. Its shady and effectively circumvents the entire system of progression and is THE reason ArcheAge has been branded a Pay to Win waste of time. The crafting system is built on excessive RNG in order to herd the cattle into the marketplace to buy more labor to continue crafting or earning gold.
The honest crafting and progression system for Archeage would be to simply require more materials, or make materials harder to acquire and eliminate the whole randomness factor altogether. One would not necessarily be harder than the other, but it would prevent players from being able to pay to win, and would prevent punishing players who get bad rolls.
Just an example, it personally took me 7 tries to upgrade my Halcyona necklace to rank 5, while everyone I played with were already on rank 7 or higher. The honest way of progressing this necklace would be to simply require 10x the tokens to upgrade, and guarantee success. Instead they shit on players like myself, and end up losing 100s of dollars when I left due to excessive RNG (thousands since when I left, so did 20 other people including a guy that had already spent 3 grand on the game.)
They do it that way because even with people leaving over the RNG, they still get more money in that short time frame those people were around paying to beat the RNG than they would had those people stuck around in an RNG-less system (unless they kept the "true" costs the same on average, but they won't do that because the true average costs, as shown by the math some people have done, are insane)
That people will leave the game over it and thus that the game will have a shortened life span is an acceptable loss to them in the name of greater profit. Again, this is outright championed in R2Games' business presentation on the matter.
haha Pay to Loose lol
I just spend the usual subscription for MMORPGS which is called Patron and the game is max enjoybale for me.
I like theat the RNG hits those people who try to Pay to Win
It amazes me people still defend the labor system. Labor isn't required, yes you can play without it but the game gets old real quick. All that's left to do is pvp and there are a lot of games out there that do pvp much better than AA. Oh, and the pvp is totally gear dependent, best gear p2wins!
Sailing around on a boat is fun for maybe a day (don't fish tho....that takes labor).
No, the end game is crafting, this is where the best gear, potions, items are. To craft end game stuff you need truckloads of gold, an obscene amount of labor and the same amount of luck needed to become a lotto winner. RNG might excite some players, but to me and the vast majority of players who fled this game, the RNG is a crappy, joyless frustrating system.
The only other feasible option is to whip out the credit card. But even the whales are starting to get bored of the game now.
If they are getting bored its probably because of the frequency which they need to whip out said credit card in order to successfully craft their weapon/armour of choice. And in this case, he who is prepared to pay the most, is the likely victor.
IMO , there are change that ArcheAge NA will never see the next new year.
Thing just too mess. The skeleton still good , but the flesh is all rotten now . It will take while to the zombie die , but soon .
There are no hope for this game now .
As expected , the labor system kill the game too fast.
Only thing they can do now is merge servers , but it will be hard since people spend too much on lands, I expect a lots whale will quit if the merge happen .
I know thats why they do it, but I do not believe they stand to make more money. I was in a 50 man guild that, upon starting beta was ready to play this game for the next X years. Even with some new ideas out there in development, theres nothing on the horizon and we were all ready to go hard on this for a very very long time. Most other ArcheAge fans were feeling the same way. They gambled and lost. Long term success = more profit.
I agree with everything you said except for labor. Labor isn't the cause of the problem (RNG P2W). Labor has been done well in other games and it promoted player interdependence without holding back most players. Its just severely limited in AA to force players to spend more money.
Lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Wut? Which games you are talking about?
I don't remember any MMORPG with labor system like Archeage , aside from farmville or the same kind which can't count as MMORPG.
Or you talk about the "limit number of time for enter dungeon"
In many cases , only Archeage use such broken system.
RNG is suck for whale , if you willing to spend a lots , it not problem
but labor suck for the rest of player base of Archeage. You can't play as you want without large among labor consume.
Mine ,farm , trading , craft , fishing all out of question as you out of labor . Some make gold by making buff potions , but if there are no people who make gold (trading , fishing) then where did you get gold from ?
NA Archeage can't be cure now. It will stand for little longer but as a zombie.
I write those words because Archeage have change to become something big , but in the end it become just another zombie .
I've never played AA, but I do like PotBS, which has had a labor system in place for years. PotBS is a pirate game, and is heavily gear (ship) dependent. Normally, the person with the better ship wins, barring a few factors (some really fast and small ships can outrun a larger more powerful ship).
The labor system works in crafting, and is measured in time. You accumulate labor points at the same rate, whether logged in or not. F2P gets the same labor points, but is limited to 2 econ slots (2 factories, workshops, mines, etc) instead of 10 for a paying player.
- you need a lumber yard to chop down trees, it takes labor to do this, each lumberyard tracks its own labor
- you need a mill to make planks from the trees, this takes labor at the lumbermill
- then to make cannons, masts, sails, hulls, etc, all takes labor, at the respective factories/shops/farms/shipyards.
Obviously, labor points restrict how much you can build in a day, and to make a large ship-of-the-line would take a guild quite a bit of time. However, you cannot buy more labor in the cash shop, and the points are tied to the factory/shop/farm, not to the player. There is also a maximum amount that can be stored (3 days) at each site.
There is no RNG, when you make something from a recipe, you always make it. The labor points just limit how much any one player can make in a day. Typically, you can burn up your labor points at a shop/mill/mine/factory/etc in just a few minutes of play time, so the act of crafting itself is not much. However, transporting the goods to the right location (only a few ports can make large ships) takes time, running missions, ratting, PvP'ing, fleeting, all take the rest.
TL;DR PotBS has had a good labor system in place for years, with no labor pts in the cash shop.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
I think AA will still plug along but people will come and go. I'm giving up my sub and my beloved little farm and thatched farmhouse. Heck at this point, I can't even give it away to my guild mates. Many have left or are just logging on periodically to pay their taxes and log off.
The game certainly had potential and I had a great deal of fun for the first few months. I just can't shake the feeling that Trion's heart and soul is behind it as publishers. Just little things like voices still not translated makes me think of a shoddy game that will never get much development support.
The landscape still seems full of properties but I don't see much activity at this point and chat is dead except for the few trolls or gold sellers. I think many folks are still holding on to see what the miraculous patch will bring. Me, I'm moving on to games that offer me a bit more fun. Want for fish for hours and hours without managing my labor points....I can do that in other games.
If there are any new players thinking about trying out the game, give me a PM. I will be more than happy to pull up some of my properties.
Archage Laborsystem is similar to what you described.
Exception is F2P dosn't get same amount and max pool is smaller what makes perfect sense since subbed players pay subscription.
But if F2P players want to have more Labour and dont want to spend subscription on something that needs mantainece and has costs to be run then they need to buy labor points to keep up with the subbed players. The downtime for use is 12h so max is 2 per day and they get about the amount the miss not being a patron aka having payed for sub.
Now with the RNG part there is something funny. There is is saying "death the great equalizer" and so is the RNG regarding poor, f2p, subbed, rich, casual, hardcore, basement dweller etc player in Archeage.
The funny point is if people TRY Pay to Win and loose because of the "great equalizer" RNG.
So, yes i welcome the labor points, its a masterpiece.
I like the RNG as an counter to cash shop
Any MMORPG should have RNG if it also has a cash shop, else it would be a Pay to Win game.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
I gave up my sub, house and farms for the freedom to come and go as I please. I have the mats to make a clipper or farm hauler but so far have not had the time or inclination to bother.
Re the incomplete localization, Trion posted several months ago that the translations were complete and the rest was left on purpose to retain the Korean flavor. While you and I might not agree with that decision, it is complete (except for the odd glitch here and there on tooltips).
Trion/XL makes the mistake of thinking consumers in Asia and NA are more or less the same.
In Asia, selling potions in the cash shop for X is a very common thing and more or less accepted (but 99% of the games there are F2P).
But that is not the case with customers in NA, especially for those that pay a sub equivalent. Needing to buy labor potions on top of paying a "sub" is insulting, and a lot of Western players won't tolerate that.
Even the fools at EA that are running TOR got that bit right, all of the "gameplay" restrictions are on F2P players, pay the sub and have access to all the gameplay (not cosmetic) elements.
Which is too bad, because AA is a far deeper game than TOR, but the business/payment model and game management have driven it into the ground for all but the remaining hardcore AA fans.
Normal Western players have moved on.
You are a hopeless optimist.
It takes one to know one.
Age of Wushu for one.
The only problem with the system in AA was that the amount of labor was ridiculously low considering EVERYTHING costs labor. I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a game where everything used labor, and it recovered so slowly. Theres no question they did it to allow people to purchase the power of labor. Why else would they leave the ability to use potions on 6 character when the entire playerbase hated selling labor in the first place? Don't get it twisted. As long as a game allows you to master every craft, its imperative that there be some system preventing you from crafting all day and flooding the market.