Given the differences in a crafting system like this or a system like like WoW's and I'll take this hands down. I was hooked on FFXIV:ARR's crafting system at launch. I loved how crafting was treated as a full fledged class. It took as much to level it as it did to level a combat class.
It fell apart for me after they patched the game with improved raid drop gear and nothing for crafted gear. I felt that was a kick in the teeth for all the grinding I did to separate myself from others who did not craft. There were few on my server who were ahead of me in crafting. But I was woefully lagging behind in my main combat class. But then when crafted gear was no longer competitive, the whole path I chose fell apart. and I was left behind struggling to get caught up with dropped instance gear. Ultimately I was disappointed enough and un-subbed.
But that's the thing. High level crafters need to have the ability to distinguish themselves. There aren't any games like that. And this crafting system will be the 1st in a long time to do that. Yeah, crafting will be a bitch. And that's exactly why it's good.
Alt will allow people to craft multiple items at the same time since there is nothing stopping people from having more than 1 account. If I was a crafter, this is what I would do.
Yeah, but the real question is: Is this really fun?
OP have a point, simple stuff shouldn't force you to have a bunch of alts. Cool stuff is another matter but we are talking about a simple thing everyone uses here.
Of course, this is pretty common in MMOs, particularly ones who want a crafting economy but it is a step too far for my taste at least.
Now, if we are talking about hard to come by advanced gear things are very different though. You don't have a single guy to make a Space shuttle...
Why would you need alts? Did they put a skill point reservoir in the game to limit your skills?
You create alts for specialization. Yes one character can do it all but it takes longer to level them in a lot of skills rather then in specific ones that allow a crafters to get better stuff out faster. Also like a company a group of alts are more productive.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Sounds like a well-organised guild with a good spread of crafting skills will do very well in this game ?
But I could also imagine that here will be a few soloists that will multibox and run 5 alts simultaneously to make things more "efficient"...
Yes, guilds or nations as they are called in this game do very well or at least can do. Im still in the basic nation but from what I heard from nations and experienced even 3-5 people working together speed up the process of crafting decent grade gear by quite a bit. Now if you think a nation in which you had a whole lot of different crafters each specializing in different things that will definitely make things easier.
1 person with alts might not be as good. The only limit I encountered in crafting different things at once is when you already have a batch(crafts while you arent at a crafting station or while you craft other stuff) of one recipe running and want to add the exact same recipe again. But imho the batch takes longer and it also means if you have alts yes you could craft the same thing twice but it would be the same thing so each alt would kind of look the same. No spec in one craft like a nation crafter so I'd say Nation > alts.
Sounds like a well-organised guild with a good spread of crafting skills will do very well in this game ?
But I could also imagine that here will be a few soloists that will multibox and run 5 alts simultaneously to make things more "efficient"...
Yes, guilds or nations as they are called in this game do very well or at least can do. Im still in the basic nation but from what I heard from nations and experienced even 3-5 people working together speed up the process of crafting decent grade gear by quite a bit. Now if you think a nation in which you had a whole lot of different crafters each specializing in different things that will definitely make things easier.
1 person with alts might not be as good. The only limit I encountered in crafting different things at once is when you already have a batch(crafts while you arent at a crafting station or while you craft other stuff) of one recipe running and want to add the exact same recipe again. But imho the batch takes longer and it also means if you have alts yes you could craft the same thing twice but it would be the same thing so each alt would kind of look the same. No spec in one craft like a nation crafter so I'd say Nation > alts.
i must agree. Nations/Guilds that work together do better than an individual with alts. Both have there advantages. Nations, more stuff can get done at the same time and faster, individuals you don't have to wait for guild mates to log in or do their part so you set and work at you're own pace and get richer by cornering you're own market segment.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Alt will allow people to craft multiple items at the same time since there is nothing stopping people from having more than 1 account. If I was a crafter, this is what I would do.
Yeah, but the real question is: Is this really fun?
OP have a point, simple stuff shouldn't force you to have a bunch of alts. Cool stuff is another matter but we are talking about a simple thing everyone uses here.
Of course, this is pretty common in MMOs, particularly ones who want a crafting economy but it is a step too far for my taste at least.
Now, if we are talking about hard to come by advanced gear things are very different though. You don't have a single guy to make a Space shuttle...
Why would you need alts? Did they put a skill point reservoir in the game to limit your skills?
You create alts for specialization. Yes one character can do it all but it takes longer to level them in a lot of skills rather then in specific ones that allow a crafters to get better stuff out faster. Also like a company a group of alts are more productive.
Honestly, this sounds ok to me. I like crafting, and I think it adds something to the game where I can make all components myself to be self sufficient, or I have the choice of being more specialized and trade for what I need. A win/win from my point of view.
And yeah, if anything, youre never going to convince them to change it. Its all well and good to say you need to work together with other players to get shit done, its anothere thing to actually have a playerbase in the first place.
Originally posted by mgilbrtsn Honestly, this sounds ok to me. I like crafting, and I think it adds something to the game where I can make all components myself to be self sufficient, or I have the choice of being more specialized and trade for what I need. A win/win from my point of view.
I would have said the same thing, until I actually started playing the game.
As much as I like the idea of it, I just feel the time commitment required to learn this and the resulting gratification I will get from the whole exercise, does not compute into fun for me. But you may be one of those that do enjoy it.
Just get it out of your head that you will be able to craft everything you need. You will be old and grey before that time comes.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Originally posted by mgilbrtsn Honestly, this sounds ok to me. I like crafting, and I think it adds something to the game where I can make all components myself to be self sufficient, or I have the choice of being more specialized and trade for what I need. A win/win from my point of view.
I would have said the same thing, until I actually started playing the game.
As much as I like the idea of it, I just feel the time commitment required to learn this and the resulting gratification I will get from the whole exercise, does not compute into fun for me. But you may be one of those that do enjoy it.
Just get it out of your head that you will be able to craft everything you need. You will be old and grey before that time comes.
Every activity in an MMORPG doesn't always have to equate to fun. In fact, by not being fun, it may provide an outlet for those willing to do it in order to separate themselves out in the game. But, for that to work, it still has to be engaging and there needs to be a significant payoff in the end that does equate to something more fun. In other words....By doing it, will the final result make the effort worth it? This factor is something I haven't seen in an MMORPG for a long time.
Originally posted by mgilbrtsn Honestly, this sounds ok to me. I like crafting, and I think it adds something to the game where I can make all components myself to be self sufficient, or I have the choice of being more specialized and trade for what I need. A win/win from my point of view.
I would have said the same thing, until I actually started playing the game.
As much as I like the idea of it, I just feel the time commitment required to learn this and the resulting gratification I will get from the whole exercise, does not compute into fun for me. But you may be one of those that do enjoy it.
Just get it out of your head that you will be able to craft everything you need. You will be old and grey before that time comes.
Every activity in an MMORPG doesn't always have to equate to fun. In fact, by not being fun, it may provide an outlet for those willing to do it in order to separate themselves out in the game. But, for that to work, it still has to be engaging and there needs to be a significant payoff in the end that does equate to something more fun. In other words....By doing it, will the final result make the effort worth it? This factor is something I haven't seen in an MMORPG for a long time.
Yea thats the part that really drags me down about this game. I really want to like it. But to me, the way it is done just doesn't grab me.
You say you haven't seen this in a long time but I think you have. It is basically EvE turned into crafting. Nowhere near the complexity of that game, but the way it plays with the crafting screens and the myriads of different ingredients required, are very similar.
There is definitely a limit for myself as to how much complexity I want in a game. Go ahead and call me lazy or stupid, I am a little of both of those things. But this to me is massive amounts of work for very little payoff. The amount of work with finding and gathering all the resources, combining all the items, determining which stats you want to end up with, yea it all sounds great on paper. But then what do you end up with? A little plugin, that sits in your gun slot and does nothing but change a few stats on your gun.
Again this is just me. This is a great game for EvE like players, and I am pretty sure it will do just fine without me. Since crafting is something I almost always find fun to do , the fact that it does not seem to be the case here is a pretty big disappointment for me.
But I haven't given up yet!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Reminds me a lot of SWG, you will have a few specialized crafter supplied by a bunch of gatherer. Most people probably won't even bother with either, they will just be too busy in wars. Perfect for crafter than like to make a name for themselves.
You won't be able to do much if you play solo in your small corner, group of friends playing together will shine in this game.
BTW you don't need multiple crafters, there is no diminishing return on skills, your only concern is time. So you could have 10 people gathering all they can and feed 1 main crafter that would do everything. Given he will have a hard time managing his inventory, it is still possible to craft everything on 1 single character.
Only the gathering should be specialized on different characters. Different as in other people not as alts, unless you are multiboxing that is...
Reminds me a lot of SWG, you will have a few specialized crafter supplied by a bunch of gatherer. Most people probably won't even bother with either, they will just be too busy in wars. Perfect for crafter than like to make a name for themselves.
You won't be able to do much if you play solo in your small corner, group of friends playing together will shine in this game.
BTW you don't need multiple crafters, there is no diminishing return on skills, your only concern is time. So you could have 10 people gathering all they can and feed 1 main crafter that would do everything. Given he will have a hard time managing his inventory, it is still possible to craft everything on 1 single character.
Only the gathering should be specialized on different characters. Different as in other people not as alts, unless you are multiboxing that is...
It is SWG. Reskinned.
You are right though, this is not a solo game. Trying to play it as such, just makes it unrewarding, I think that is the part that I am missing here.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
The repopulation is designed to be economy and community driven.
You can do all crafting of sub-components yourself, but that's pretty masochistic
There are many different skill-lines within crafting and hundreds of recipes.
If you want to create a bandage, go buy the cloth from or trade with a tailor that already made it. You can also put out a work-order for it.
The problem is their monetization plan will work against what they have built. Even in SWG many of the self proclaimed best crafters ran alt accounts, and there is absolutely no reason for players not to do the same here.
The repopulation is designed to be economy and community driven.
You can do all crafting of sub-components yourself, but that's pretty masochistic
There are many different skill-lines within crafting and hundreds of recipes.
If you want to create a bandage, go buy the cloth from or trade with a tailor that already made it. You can also put out a work-order for it.
The problem is their monetization plan will work against what they have built. Even in SWG many of the self proclaimed best crafters ran alt accounts, and there is absolutely no reason for players not to do the same here.
Can you explain to me how having alts would help you in this game ?
Originally posted by mgilbrtsn Honestly, this sounds ok to me. I like crafting, and I think it adds something to the game where I can make all components myself to be self sufficient, or I have the choice of being more specialized and trade for what I need. A win/win from my point of view.
I would have said the same thing, until I actually started playing the game.
As much as I like the idea of it, I just feel the time commitment required to learn this and the resulting gratification I will get from the whole exercise, does not compute into fun for me. But you may be one of those that do enjoy it.
Just get it out of your head that you will be able to craft everything you need. You will be old and grey before that time comes.
Every activity in an MMORPG doesn't always have to equate to fun. In fact, by not being fun, it may provide an outlet for those willing to do it in order to separate themselves out in the game. But, for that to work, it still has to be engaging and there needs to be a significant payoff in the end that does equate to something more fun. In other words....By doing it, will the final result make the effort worth it? This factor is something I haven't seen in an MMORPG for a long time.
Yea thats the part that really drags me down about this game. I really want to like it. But to me, the way it is done just doesn't grab me.
You say you haven't seen this in a long time but I think you have. It is basically EvE turned into crafting. Nowhere near the complexity of that game, but the way it plays with the crafting screens and the myriads of different ingredients required, are very similar.
There is definitely a limit for myself as to how much complexity I want in a game. Go ahead and call me lazy or stupid, I am a little of both of those things. But this to me is massive amounts of work for very little payoff. The amount of work with finding and gathering all the resources, combining all the items, determining which stats you want to end up with, yea it all sounds great on paper. But then what do you end up with? A little plugin, that sits in your gun slot and does nothing but change a few stats on your gun.
Again this is just me. This is a great game for EvE like players, and I am pretty sure it will do just fine without me. Since crafting is something I almost always find fun to do , the fact that it does not seem to be the case here is a pretty big disappointment for me.
But I haven't given up yet!
And this is where I would be lost as well.
I am all for a game that has a grind in it. But there damn well needs to be a reason for having done it at the end.
Can you explain to me how having alts would help you in this game ?
It is the same as every other microtransaction game. Using 3-4 alts at the same time to craft the subcomponents cuts down on time needed to craft and crafting quicker means more gold, and more gold means more advantage in player driven economies.
In themepark microtransaction games this is the same as running "buff slaves" so a single player can grind, farm, etc. faster.
Can you explain to me how having alts would help you in this game ?
It is the same as every other microtransaction game. Using 3-4 alts at the same time to craft the subcomponents cuts down on time needed to craft and crafting quicker means more gold, and more gold means more advantage in player driven economies.
In themepark microtransaction games this is the same as running "buff slaves" so a single player can grind, farm, etc. faster.
I thought crafting was instant in this game. So everything would be faster to do on one character rather than mailing components from account to account.
Can you explain to me how having alts would help you in this game ?
It is the same as every other microtransaction game. Using 3-4 alts at the same time to craft the subcomponents cuts down on time needed to craft and crafting quicker means more gold, and more gold means more advantage in player driven economies.
In themepark microtransaction games this is the same as running "buff slaves" so a single player can grind, farm, etc. faster.
Except that it's not like eve where it takes forever to craft something, the crafting is almost instant. The bottleneck is the gathering of ingredients. I don't think you can make yourself better simply by having more alts, not it this game at least.
If you have people gathering for you or you buy all ingredients from the AH all you need is 1 crafter.
Can you explain to me how having alts would help you in this game ?
It is the same as every other microtransaction game. Using 3-4 alts at the same time to craft the subcomponents cuts down on time needed to craft and crafting quicker means more gold, and more gold means more advantage in player driven economies.
In themepark microtransaction games this is the same as running "buff slaves" so a single player can grind, farm, etc. faster.
Except that it's not like eve where it takes forever to craft something, the crafting is almost instant. The bottleneck is the gathering of ingredients. I don't think you can make yourself better simply by having more alts, not it this game at least.
If you have people gathering for you or you buy all ingredients from the AH all you need is 1 crafter.
The reason you will need alts is not to craft faster as the others have said. It will be because of the fact that you increase your craft skill level by crafting. Therefore if you try to craft everything on one character, it will take eons to get your stats up to a respectable level.
However if you have several alts and focus them in certain areas you will be better able to produce more and higer quality items.
But time wise it will all be the same.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
there is also diminishing returns...depending on how strong the effect is, alts can make sense BUT
a) i think the devs rather want people to trade with other specialists instead of making alts
b) trying to make several characters really good at something will probably take you 10 years...this isnt wow where you level your skill to master in a few days....
there is also diminishing returns...depending on how strong the effect is, alts can make sense BUT
a) i think the devs rather want people to trade with other specialists instead of making alts
b) trying to make several characters really good at something will probably take you 10 years...this isnt wow where you level your skill to master in a few days....
I think you are underestimating the power of groups working towards a same goal. Expect grade A fittings in game after 2 or 3 days.
I love the crafting in this one, finally something that makes you use your brain. It even beats SWG (and thats comming from SWG fan). Harvesting is worse than SWG and requires work but crafting is awesome. I would even love to even more complexity on very high levels.
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
Comments
Given the differences in a crafting system like this or a system like like WoW's and I'll take this hands down. I was hooked on FFXIV:ARR's crafting system at launch. I loved how crafting was treated as a full fledged class. It took as much to level it as it did to level a combat class.
It fell apart for me after they patched the game with improved raid drop gear and nothing for crafted gear. I felt that was a kick in the teeth for all the grinding I did to separate myself from others who did not craft. There were few on my server who were ahead of me in crafting. But I was woefully lagging behind in my main combat class. But then when crafted gear was no longer competitive, the whole path I chose fell apart. and I was left behind struggling to get caught up with dropped instance gear. Ultimately I was disappointed enough and un-subbed.
But that's the thing. High level crafters need to have the ability to distinguish themselves. There aren't any games like that. And this crafting system will be the 1st in a long time to do that. Yeah, crafting will be a bitch. And that's exactly why it's good.
You create alts for specialization. Yes one character can do it all but it takes longer to level them in a lot of skills rather then in specific ones that allow a crafters to get better stuff out faster. Also like a company a group of alts are more productive.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Sounds like a well-organised guild with a good spread of crafting skills will do very well in this game ?
But I could also imagine that here will be a few soloists that will multibox and run 5 alts simultaneously to make things more "efficient"...
Yes, guilds or nations as they are called in this game do very well or at least can do. Im still in the basic nation but from what I heard from nations and experienced even 3-5 people working together speed up the process of crafting decent grade gear by quite a bit. Now if you think a nation in which you had a whole lot of different crafters each specializing in different things that will definitely make things easier.
1 person with alts might not be as good. The only limit I encountered in crafting different things at once is when you already have a batch(crafts while you arent at a crafting station or while you craft other stuff) of one recipe running and want to add the exact same recipe again. But imho the batch takes longer and it also means if you have alts yes you could craft the same thing twice but it would be the same thing so each alt would kind of look the same. No spec in one craft like a nation crafter so I'd say Nation > alts.
i must agree. Nations/Guilds that work together do better than an individual with alts. Both have there advantages. Nations, more stuff can get done at the same time and faster, individuals you don't have to wait for guild mates to log in or do their part so you set and work at you're own pace and get richer by cornering you're own market segment.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
This is simply not true in the repop.
I self identify as a monkey.
Starter quest
Mounting Brackets
"C" grade or better
Nuff said.
And yeah, if anything, youre never going to convince them to change it. Its all well and good to say you need to work together with other players to get shit done, its anothere thing to actually have a playerbase in the first place.
Time will tell.
PAST: UO-SWG-DAOC-WOW-DDO-VG-AOC-WAR-FE-DFO-LOTRO-RIFT-GW2
PRESENT: Nothing
FUTURE: ESO
I would have said the same thing, until I actually started playing the game.
http://aena.at/craftmap/
As much as I like the idea of it, I just feel the time commitment required to learn this and the resulting gratification I will get from the whole exercise, does not compute into fun for me. But you may be one of those that do enjoy it.
Just get it out of your head that you will be able to craft everything you need. You will be old and grey before that time comes.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Every activity in an MMORPG doesn't always have to equate to fun. In fact, by not being fun, it may provide an outlet for those willing to do it in order to separate themselves out in the game. But, for that to work, it still has to be engaging and there needs to be a significant payoff in the end that does equate to something more fun. In other words....By doing it, will the final result make the effort worth it? This factor is something I haven't seen in an MMORPG for a long time.
Yea thats the part that really drags me down about this game. I really want to like it. But to me, the way it is done just doesn't grab me.
You say you haven't seen this in a long time but I think you have. It is basically EvE turned into crafting. Nowhere near the complexity of that game, but the way it plays with the crafting screens and the myriads of different ingredients required, are very similar.
There is definitely a limit for myself as to how much complexity I want in a game. Go ahead and call me lazy or stupid, I am a little of both of those things. But this to me is massive amounts of work for very little payoff. The amount of work with finding and gathering all the resources, combining all the items, determining which stats you want to end up with, yea it all sounds great on paper. But then what do you end up with? A little plugin, that sits in your gun slot and does nothing but change a few stats on your gun.
Again this is just me. This is a great game for EvE like players, and I am pretty sure it will do just fine without me. Since crafting is something I almost always find fun to do , the fact that it does not seem to be the case here is a pretty big disappointment for me.
But I haven't given up yet!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Reminds me a lot of SWG, you will have a few specialized crafter supplied by a bunch of gatherer. Most people probably won't even bother with either, they will just be too busy in wars. Perfect for crafter than like to make a name for themselves.
You won't be able to do much if you play solo in your small corner, group of friends playing together will shine in this game.
BTW you don't need multiple crafters, there is no diminishing return on skills, your only concern is time. So you could have 10 people gathering all they can and feed 1 main crafter that would do everything. Given he will have a hard time managing his inventory, it is still possible to craft everything on 1 single character.
Only the gathering should be specialized on different characters. Different as in other people not as alts, unless you are multiboxing that is...
It is SWG. Reskinned.
You are right though, this is not a solo game. Trying to play it as such, just makes it unrewarding, I think that is the part that I am missing here.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
The problem is their monetization plan will work against what they have built. Even in SWG many of the self proclaimed best crafters ran alt accounts, and there is absolutely no reason for players not to do the same here.
Can you explain to me how having alts would help you in this game ?
And this is where I would be lost as well.
I am all for a game that has a grind in it. But there damn well needs to be a reason for having done it at the end.
It is the same as every other microtransaction game. Using 3-4 alts at the same time to craft the subcomponents cuts down on time needed to craft and crafting quicker means more gold, and more gold means more advantage in player driven economies.
In themepark microtransaction games this is the same as running "buff slaves" so a single player can grind, farm, etc. faster.
I thought crafting was instant in this game. So everything would be faster to do on one character rather than mailing components from account to account.
Except that it's not like eve where it takes forever to craft something, the crafting is almost instant. The bottleneck is the gathering of ingredients. I don't think you can make yourself better simply by having more alts, not it this game at least.
If you have people gathering for you or you buy all ingredients from the AH all you need is 1 crafter.
The reason you will need alts is not to craft faster as the others have said. It will be because of the fact that you increase your craft skill level by crafting. Therefore if you try to craft everything on one character, it will take eons to get your stats up to a respectable level.
However if you have several alts and focus them in certain areas you will be better able to produce more and higer quality items.
But time wise it will all be the same.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
there is also diminishing returns...depending on how strong the effect is, alts can make sense BUT
a) i think the devs rather want people to trade with other specialists instead of making alts
b) trying to make several characters really good at something will probably take you 10 years...this isnt wow where you level your skill to master in a few days....
I think you are underestimating the power of groups working towards a same goal. Expect grade A fittings in game after 2 or 3 days.
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
Yes it does. I'm not playing a game to work; I'm playing a game to have fun. Now go drink your metamucil, Geezer. =P