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Disciplines Review

GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 5,891

I'll just quote mysrlf for maximum clarity:




Ok, I've done really in-depth analysis. I've compared EVERY passive to its previous form and even wrote it down in a notebook. Just so the fact stands. I'll go one class at a time:


A lot of number tweaks here.


Rep.Blows is mega nerfed(5% bonus dmg to Cauterise instead of 30%!), Searing Saber went down to 15%, Juyo Mastery also got the axe(it gives up to 12% crit for DoTs now-instead of up to 36%!). Plasma Blades lost that sweet +21% to DoTs. What with the loss of access to Dual Wield Mastery, I am VERY concerned about this discipline. I know that DoTs are uncleansable now, but come on! I am all for freedom and choice, but who takes swtor PvP seriously? Devs should just flatout ignore PvP consenquences. Also, when compared to Jugger DoT tree(Venge) it became...LOL WTF!


Dual Wield got nerfed(25% instead of 36%), Ataru mastery got nerfed for no reason(5% instead of 15%) and Saber Storm got the axe as well(+10% crit dmg instead of +30%). Overall, this tree is still intact. It'll suffer from something I'll mention at the end(no doubt), but it should become very fun what with new passives, what with Alacrity changes. The best 3,0 Sent disc if you ask me.

Concentration: (nice name)

Everything's more or less the same(passive wise) except one B.I.G. thing. The thing that could make Shii-Cho Sents either reroll or outright uninstall. Remember Singularity? How awesome fun it was(OP according to some, not according to me)? Every 21s you get a free/100% more powerful F.Sweep. Well, you better cherish those memories, for K.O.A.N.(Kind of Another Nerf) is here! Every 21s you get a free and, get these kicks, 15%(LOLOLOLO) more powerful F.Sweep/F.Burst. I mean, wtf O.o holy cr@p Batman1 When you couple this with the lack of access to Dual Wield Mastery...this disc is D.E.A.D. Or at least compared to Fury Jugger.

Overall: ...7meh. Won't even bother to correct that mistake,


I won't go in-depth here. Suffice to say that they got a buff. And a substantial one. Why? Well, in the sea(ocean even!) of nerfs, they left unscathed with all those awesome changes I mentioned earlier. Wtf have they done to deserve such a treatment? They are mostly unchanged btw save for a little change here or there(and most of these being buffs). The only change I'd wish for was that Balance was renamed to Serenity. Then I'd be exstatic about these changes(like I already am not :p)!




Overall, I'd say they fared pretty well. See for yourself!


Ion Overload is way more interactive now with AoE inclusion(HIB causes the proc to become AoE!). Pulse Engine is just lol. 50%? That will be nerfed I am afraid. Apart from these, it's just some little number round ups here or there. Mostly buffs and qol changes tho. It'll be viable-how much remains to be seen.

PlasmaTech: (nice name)

First thing you'll notice is that you are able to spread your proc DoTs naturally. Ionised Ignition now affects Explosive Surge as well with 100% chance. You'll also notice a slight modification to PulseGen bonus dmg(45% instead of 60%) and the lack of resource reduction therein. This could make PlasmaTech more difficult to play than Tactics ever was. I have two questions though. Why doesn't Rain of Fire affect Explosive Surge and shouldn't Hyper Assault Cell be more at home in Tactics? Idk about ST forced crit in an AoE DoT/channel discipline. Overall, rather nice.


This discipline is rather unchanged(if you don't count talents swapping disciplines-for a true unchanged discipline...stay tuned!). From what I see, it should be a rather fun and effective ST DoT/DD hybrid discipline. Nice job Bioware!

Overall: Save for some dubious skill placements(see my first post), these changes are actually awesome! There is no reason why you shouldn't just log in and have fun! Nice job Bioware!


I'll be short here as well. Not much has changed apart from Shoot First which got removed. With that said, I feel like only Scrapper got nerfed(tentative at best) due to them trying out new stuff-stuff which were needed because Scrapper was unplayable until at least 40(a fail in design if any). A simple change to BB which I proposed in my first post should suffice. Everything else is mostly the same save for some number roundups. I still think that PBS should be a part of Scrapper btw. Don't understand the "Scoundrel got NERFED" thread on swtor tho. When looked from objective side, it's Sent(if anyone) that got the shaft.


I still don't agree with Ambush/Expl probe being in disciiplines. Maybe I could unserstand Ambush, but Probe? Perusing these changes that I collected, it seems that it's mostly the same. There's one big change(imho) per discipline. At marksmanship, Recoil Control got rolled because it lost its +30% SoS Channel speed part. This could be problematic, but most prolly won't. It'll make MM just harder to play. At Engineering, Imperial Auto Loader got stomped. It went from very nice, general talent to a niche one tat is subpar even here. At Lethality(Virulence = Operative imo!), Lethal Takedown got a mega buff. I agree that it should just become 100% because who gives a toss between 80 and 100%? During SoS, it'll almost certainly activate this or that way. With some mobile classes getting weakened, Snipers should get better.


For all you that eagerly awaited the unchanged class(over 80% to be sure!)...HERE IT IS! The amount of changed passives throughout all disciplines is, how shall I put this?, ...FASCINATINGLY low! Immortal and Venge are almost the exact as on live(if the skills didn't get reshufled, I bet you wouldn't be able to tell the difference!) while Fury did get some change here and there. If you ask me, this'll be the premiere(alongside Guardian) melee class post 3,0. Be it PvE, be it PvP, they've got everything one'd ever need. Both competitively and casually(for fun). I'll eagerly watch how this class progresses in the future.


This one remained mostly similar to its live version as well. Darkness and Deception are particularly indistinguishable. The only changes of note are that El.Shock now gives +25%dmg instead of +30% threat(yeah, it's a slight nerf to the threat gain)-which I welcome becuase +25%dmg is ENDLESSLY more fun than +25%threat(yet the result is same :D ). Deception's Saber Conduit also causes Lacerate to giveVoltage which should definitely help Deceptors with AoE fights. Hatred got better energy management through Fulguration(former Ltng burns) and more staying power through Nefarious Methods(former Corrupted Flesh). It did lose crit dmg and C.Dark dmg in the process as well. Overall, it should be a quite class to play with more options, more early. Nice job Bioware!


This one is rather unchanged as well. Bodyguard got a nerf to K.Shell(+1act instead of +3act, +5%heal instead of +15% and -0,5s internal CD reduction instead of -1s)and Crit.Eff got turned upside down. Arsenal got shaked the most I think. Barrage's nerf from +25% dmg to +10% will be felt. Ironsight got an actual passive tho. Innovative Ordnance (nice name) got...buffed I think. PPA change is just sweet(Sweeping Blasters activates it now as well as constant 100% rate) and Volatile Warhead change is...LOVELY. Power Barrels got nerfed tho. Out of all these, I feel like Inn.Ord will be the most fun to use. There is an issue of pacing tho. Merc gets Cure mind at lvl 41(say WHAT?) and doesn't get pushback reduction until...38?(yes it is 38!) . This class is most definitely RUINED for leveling as well(unless you got Treek which could be their "smart" trick to sell it). Why ruined? You don't get a tank until...lvl 40? or so. Really, Bioware you did such a nice job with skills and passives only to get ruined by this? Put the pushback reduction at ~lvl20 and QUICK!



But please do see these changes in the light of the mentioned DPS nerf. From my cross-referencing of abilities(I know that #s are preliminary and will wait until tomorrow for an actual impression) it seems that nerf could be anywhere between 20 and 33%. This is H.U.G.E., as I am well certain you are aware. Corrolary to this is the dumbing down of solo leveling/leveling FPs. Where everything will have...less. Less HP, less dmg etc. Now, with the dmg nerf, the equilibrium could be maintained. If leveling gets easier, they just shot themselves in the foot-nah scrap that-in the head! because leveling part is what MOST(I am certain it's over 75%) people remember from swtor. You need to keep that part fun and engaging, not dumb it down. If anything, the challenge should've gotten UP NOT DOWN! Now, imagine the poor Sentinels. A pure dmg class got stomped by nerfs to its passives and abilities and got stomped even harder and why? BECAUSE IT IS A PURE DMG CLASS! But what about Sniper? I am...edgy about it as well due to unnecessary Ambush/Probe enlistings, but overall its dmg didn't get stomped on at least. Every other class is fine. Juggers and Sages being more than fine(there will be loads of those).


With the important notice-I am HIGHLY uneasy about 3,0. The BAD FEELING I talked about in the first post, just got worse. Let's hope that even in this strong state it can miss. Or swtor's fun will suddenly get halved. I'd rather that I am, once for a change, wrong. But-the glass is always full eh? We'll manage and we'll have fun once again! Until my next post(the actual hands on experience):





With that said, the dmg reduction isn't really present. On the contrary, you can expect to deal up to 110% of previous top dps(so if it was 4500, it'll be ~4950 now). And here's the real dealbreaker:

I feel like they aren't BOLD enough with these disciplines. Nothing's stopping them from putting crucial talents at low levels so as to empower players and make the leveling experience MORE FUN/MORE PRODUCTIVE. Want an example? Fine:

PlasmaTech: Talents such as Hyper Assault Cell, Pulse Engine and Plasma Barrage(THIS ONE ESPECIALLY!) have nothing to gain from such high level placements. Levels are, respectively: 36, 40, 56(!). Just to reference what they actually do. HAC makes your next HIB after your Shockstrike auto crit(very nice), PulseEng makes your P.Can more powerful and P.Barrage makes your next Ion Pulse/Expl Surge free after you've used Shockstrike/Fire Pulse. These are DISCIPLINE DEFINING passives! Players ought to get them earleir so as to not only feel more powerful(hence, more fun), but to actually PRACTICE rotations that will be oh so present at the elder game content(hence, more productive). Also talents such as SuperHeated Plasma(should be just mergd with Ionised Ignition imo) and Insulated Augs/Assault Frame(these TWO ESPECIALLY!) are gotten TOO EARLY! I can just hear players squee in joy while saying "I CAN'T WAIT TO GET THOSE PASSIVES! SQUEEE!". Not!

That example from PlasmaTech could be applied broadly. They could've been more courageous with the implementation of Disciplines. Just look how satisfied Sents/Maras are with their changes. How about Slingers/Snipers? Or Smuggs/Ops? Really, if you count out the Dev Favoured Classes(tm)-Sage/Shadow and an odd ones that are imba-Inn.Ord/Assa.Spec have OMGWTFPWNBBQHAX dmg(as of now they have 5200 dps in 192 equpment{!!!}-that'll be atleast 5750 in 198...). Also, some Disciplines have been developed unevenly. Let's compare Assa.Spec and PlasmaTech(ok I know that they can't be really compared, seeing how one is an AoE spec with ST possibilities{Plasma} while the other is the reciprocal value of that one):


Has 4 DoTs: Plasma Cell proc, Inc.round, Serrated Bolt, Plasma Grenade. That's actually two normal ones and two weak ones-which means it has THREE DoTs total. It can spread and renew their DoTs with some DpS loss, but it can. It also has quite nice transition form ST -> AoE.


Has 3 DoTs: Plasma Cell proc, Inc.round and Plassmatise. That's actually two normal ones and a weak one-which means it has TWO and a HALF DoTs total. It can't spread anything(actually it can't-expl.surge passive is bugged!) which means that when you need to renew/spread your DoTs it incurs a SUBSTANTIAL DpS loss. Which means it has quite weird transition from ST to AoE. Which is strange for an AoE spec to have trouble with AoE!

We can take this further:

Enginnering Sniper:

Not only did it not receive an upgraded skill, on the contrary! This discipline didn't get a squiggly dit! On lvl 10 you get what you used to get at lvl 4, on lvl 26 what you used to get on lvl 20, on lvl 41 what you used to get on lvl 46 and on lvl 56 what you used to get on lvl 31. See how random it is? Notice the lack of something? YOU DON'T GET AN UPGRADED SKILL! YOU DON'T GET A NEW SKILL FOR THAT MATTER EITHER! WTF an EXPANSION WITHOUT AN EXPANDED MATERIAL(wtf inception lol!)


It's a nice start to be sure. They'll have to be WAY more brave in order to get anything above average mark from me. If it matters, it's a step up from what it evolved from(pre 3,0 talent trees). It's also better than what it was inspired by(WoW MoP skill system). Not bad, not bad. But not GREAT as well. Seeing how they have NO FEARS of Hybrids(durr Hybrids /shiver) currently, they could've done those proposed empowerement chamges easily(the end result is THE SAME, no matter if you get Hyper Assault Cell on 16 or on 32...). But chose not to. Hence they get slightly sub average mark:


7,5/10 / B-

(I am still satisfied by them)

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