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The Repopulation: Early Access Begins, NDA Lifts

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  • Zarf42Zarf42 Member Posts: 250
    Originally posted by MadFrenchie
    Again, the devs are in a catch-22 with offering cities and nations for backers; if they do not provide enough benefits/advantages, no one will pay for the privilege. If they do, then those players gain a significant amount of advantages/control over other players by paying. If owning a nation amounts to a title below your name (cosmetic/aesthetic), they won't sell a lot of packages based on that. If it's substantial, it's asking whales to abuse players who wish to utilize said nation/city or even simply pass through it.

    Unless leaders of city/nations are figureheads with no real governing power, you're selling control of individual parts of the gameworld. That's bad business.

    It's not just backers. Anyone can buy the memberships.

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    I'm certainly relieved to hear that, though I still worry at the trend when games are selling pieces of control in the game to players.

    Hopefully the developers can strike a good balance there. But it just begs the question, again: if you're going to withhold major game mechanics behind a paywall, why not just place a box price? Not every box has to sell for $60 at release; sell this for $20, then add perks for a subscription (more character slots, cosmetics, slightly increased rate of experience, access to expansion packs that are otherwise sold separately, etc.)??

    F2P just leaves your game so open to hackers, bots, and abuse.

    image
  • flizzerflizzer Member RarePosts: 2,415
    Whenever I hear developers claim it will be f2p but will not be pay to win or an intrusive cash shop, I run mental image of George Bush saying "read my lips. No new taxes."   Cash shops are a form of insidious creep.  They start off benign but gradually become infected. I don't trust anyone who says their cash shop will not be pay to win. 
  • delta9delta9 Member UncommonPosts: 358

    A recent post by Josh on steam seems fairly relevant here...

     

    There is no shop currently, but there will be in the future. Our focus in the shop will be on account perks and cosmetics primarily, and we'll also likely have low percentage skill gain stims similar to the ones that are in game (10-30%). There are no plans for things that cripple free players or make features annoyingly tough to the point that you have to buy something in the shop to get around it. As players, we hate those things. And as developers we feel that having those types of things in the shop drives away free players which hurts the game, because in our mind free players are still valuable.

    Account perks are things like: Inventory Slots, Character Slots, Bank Slots, Shared Bank Slots, Mission Slots. Convenience perks primarily Then there are a couple extra things like the ability to create a new nation is an account perk. And the reason for that is that we don't want a bunch of free accounts creating nations due to how our alliance/nation system works it would clutter all of the relationships with nations comprised entirely of free accounts, etc. 

    Account perks will also be available in the cash shop individually, but if you buy a membership you get a big discount on the commonly used ones. You can still buy additional ones if you wish piecemail or a free player could buy everything piece by piece if they want, but it would cost more money. 

    Our armor and weapons use a shell system. This means your basic piece of armor or your weapon is a shell. It's there to tell our system the type of armor it is, and how it looks. Each piece has 5 fitting slots. Fittings are where your stats come from. They are very customizable through crafting. They are like augmentations or mods or whatnot in other games, except there's more of them and on all gear. Because of how that is set up we can have unique looks that are crafted only, adventured only or shop only. We can sell those looks in the shop as a pure cosmetic item which does not have any stats and is not any more powerful than what you can start with, but which does look cool. As odd as it sounds, cosmetic items sell very well. 

    We feel that these things will be plenty to support the game. I think the main thing here is that we have a small team, so we have less mouths to feed. The game systems have been designed to allow us to function with a smaller team than most other MMOs due to a large amount of generated content. That allows us to build templates and rules, which has been a heavier up front time investment. But we're now seeing the benefits of that because we can add new content pretty quickly with a far smaller staff than most other MMOs. Our revenue per player will probably wind up being lower than in other games, but we hope that it also makes for a better community, which will benefit the game in the long run.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,530
    Originally posted by delta9

    Deny, deny, deny all you want, but I will guarantee you when the game launches you will find that you cannot play it without using the cash shop.  Citing League of Legends is pretty ridiculous, number one because it is a MOBA not a MMO.  Secondly LOL does sell a lot of things in the item shop because unless you grind a lot you still need to.  Thirdly LOL has millions of users playing, a hardcore MMO like this will be lucky to break 6 figures.   

    Do you seriously think a indie developer would so openly state there will be no p2w items will go back on their word - the backlash and loss of players would be significant if they did.

    Look at many MMORPG games with cash shops without p2w items in - they sell a bucket load of things from dyes to xp pots and such and The Repopulation will be no different - the devs have said as much and I believe you are just wrong here

    This game needs no where near the return a AAA title does to run well and turn a profit - so long as they deliver what they promise there is a big base of gamers waiting for this game and they will pay for non p2w items in their droves

    Again I am taking the developers word over your assumptions on this :)

     

    The word of the day is "Read".  Show me where I even mentioned pay-to-win?  All I said was that the item shop will be mandatory to play, that does not mean it will be populated with any pay-to-win items.  There will certainly pay-to-play items.

    As to the deluded people that keep mentioning LOL, they are an aberation because they have so many players, the small population that pays is still quite large.  This game will never have that luxury.  

     

  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph Member UncommonPosts: 1,331

    looking interesting good game but , it is F2P ?!

    I ll play it and spend money on it only if I can get P2W stuff ,in other case ... no thanx !

    only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  • BorlucBorluc Member UncommonPosts: 254

    For me it isn't about pay to win vs not.  It's simply about how rl cash shops in game tend to ruin the fun and freedom of pretending to exist in a fantasy world. I don't want the constant connection to rl present when I'm trying to enjoy entertainment.  Even if it's as simple as "wow look at that cool hat.  Wonder how I get one.  Is it a rare drop?  Maybe a pattern you have to quest for?  Simply unlocking it through tailoring to high lvls?  Ohh, bought in cash shop..." ruins part of that immersion. 

    Realizing this has been hard for me because I am a big fan of mmos and especially sandboxes.  In fact, I've been following this game forever too.  I'm very disappointed that they decided to take this path and it shows lack of faith in their product.  If people won't drop $40 on a feature rich sandbox for which there is no real alternative, you must have failed.  Furthermore, if they refuse to pay the equivalent of 2 cheap (and I mean cheaaaap) burger meals a month to protect its integrity, those aren't the people you want in your community. 

    Its been proven time and again that nothing is free.   You can be tricked that it is though.  So you have the discipline not to spend a cent?   Great.  But what is the cost to the game overall?  Are you immune to botters creating endless accounts and spamming?   It's coming with ftp no matter what is done to stem it.  Are you uneffected by how the 'player' run economy is based off of cash shop items?  Sorry but rl cash will always be worth more than virtual goods and this will lead to control shifting to those with it.  Most importantly, are you willing to let these artificial things into the game world you try to relax in?  

  • delta9delta9 Member UncommonPosts: 358
    Originally posted by Ozmodan

     

    The word of the day is "Read".  Show me where I even mentioned pay-to-win?  All I said was that the item shop will be mandatory to play, that does not mean it will be populated with any pay-to-win items.  There will certainly pay-to-play items.

    As to the deluded people that keep mentioning LOL, they are an aberation because they have so many players, the small population that pays is still quite large.  This game will never have that luxury.  

     

    i dont know what else would be mandatory to buy other than items that make you stronger / more competitive than others which is why i assumed by use of the word mandatory you meant p2w

    running a guild, extending your bank/inventory etc will not be mandatory

     

    i know plenty of people playing other f2p games who have never spent any money in them i dont see this game being any different in fact i see the devs here (who are far less corporate than in other games) wanting to appeal as much as possible to both a totally free player as well as someone who spends money

     

    Our focus in the shop will be on account perks and cosmetics primarily, and we'll also likely have low percentage skill gain stims similar to the ones that are in game (10-30%). There are no plans for things that cripple free players or make features annoyingly tough to the point that you have to buy something in the shop to get around it. As players, we hate those things. And as developers we feel that having those types of things in the shop drives away free players which hurts the game, because in our mind free players are still valuable.

  • delta9delta9 Member UncommonPosts: 358
    Originally posted by Borluc

    Realizing this has been hard for me because I am a big fan of mmos and especially sandboxes.  In fact, I've been following this game forever too.  I'm very disappointed that they decided to take this path and it shows lack of faith in their product.  If people won't drop $40 on a feature rich sandbox for which there is no real alternative, you must have failed.  Furthermore, if they refuse to pay the equivalent of 2 cheap (and I mean cheaaaap) burger meals a month to protect its integrity, those aren't the people you want in your community. 

    Its been proven time and again that nothing is free.   You can be tricked that it is though.  So you have the discipline not to spend a cent?   Great.  But what is the cost to the game overall?  Are you immune to botters creating endless accounts and spamming?   It's coming with ftp no matter what is done to stem it.  Are you uneffected by how the 'player' run economy is based off of cash shop items?  Sorry but rl cash will always be worth more than virtual goods and this will lead to control shifting to those with it.  Most importantly, are you willing to let these artificial things into the game world you try to relax in?  

    While I personally also prefer sub based games with no cash shop, that is no longer the most lucrative way for a majority of MMO games anymore and we simply have to suck it up - but this doesnt mean the devs have no faith in the game and I applaud them for being f2p from launch rather than selling boxes with subs and X months down the line converting to a f2p model after they've milked their initial playerbase

    Botters, spammers, exploiters all reside in the sub based MMOs, being a free game is no different - what they do to tackle it is what counts

  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,530
    Originally posted by delta9
    Originally posted by Ozmodan

     

    The word of the day is "Read".  Show me where I even mentioned pay-to-win?  All I said was that the item shop will be mandatory to play, that does not mean it will be populated with any pay-to-win items.  There will certainly pay-to-play items.

    As to the deluded people that keep mentioning LOL, they are an aberation because they have so many players, the small population that pays is still quite large.  This game will never have that luxury.  

     

    i dont know what else would be mandatory to buy other than items that make you stronger / more competitive than others which is why i assumed by use of the word mandatory you meant p2w

    running a guild, extending your bank/inventory etc will not be mandatory

     

    i know plenty of people playing other f2p games who have never spent any money in them i dont see this game being any different in fact i see the devs here (who are far less corporate than in other games) wanting to appeal as much as possible to both a totally free player as well as someone who spends money

     

    Our focus in the shop will be on account perks and cosmetics primarily, and we'll also likely have low percentage skill gain stims similar to the ones that are in game (10-30%). There are no plans for things that cripple free players or make features annoyingly tough to the point that you have to buy something in the shop to get around it. As players, we hate those things. And as developers we feel that having those types of things in the shop drives away free players which hurts the game, because in our mind free players are still valuable.

    Ah how basic do I need to get?  The only way to support the game is through item shop purchases.  Without people buying items there the game will fold.  Name me one f2p besides LOL that does not have required items in the shop?  You can't, because there isn't any.

    Secondly, developers lie, they all do.  Promised features never make it into the game, things like what is in the item shop always change when they realize they need to monetize the game more to pay for it.  If you think quoting a developer blog is proof that the item shop will be cosmetic only you are extremely naive.

    Welcome to the real world! 

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Originally posted by delta9
    Originally posted by Borluc

    Realizing this has been hard for me because I am a big fan of mmos and especially sandboxes.  In fact, I've been following this game forever too.  I'm very disappointed that they decided to take this path and it shows lack of faith in their product.  If people won't drop $40 on a feature rich sandbox for which there is no real alternative, you must have failed.  Furthermore, if they refuse to pay the equivalent of 2 cheap (and I mean cheaaaap) burger meals a month to protect its integrity, those aren't the people you want in your community. 

    Its been proven time and again that nothing is free.   You can be tricked that it is though.  So you have the discipline not to spend a cent?   Great.  But what is the cost to the game overall?  Are you immune to botters creating endless accounts and spamming?   It's coming with ftp no matter what is done to stem it.  Are you uneffected by how the 'player' run economy is based off of cash shop items?  Sorry but rl cash will always be worth more than virtual goods and this will lead to control shifting to those with it.  Most importantly, are you willing to let these artificial things into the game world you try to relax in?  

    While I personally also prefer sub based games with no cash shop, that is no longer the most lucrative way for a majority of MMO games anymore and we simply have to suck it up - but this doesnt mean the devs have no faith in the game and I applaud them for being f2p from launch rather than selling boxes with subs and X months down the line converting to a f2p model after they've milked their initial playerbase

    Botters, spammers, exploiters all reside in the sub based MMOs, being a free game is no different - what they do to tackle it is what counts

    Again, why are we looking at F2P as such a dynamic monetary route and leaving box+sub in such an archaic place?

     

    The box can be scaled in price to match the expectancy.  As can the sub.  It doesn't have to be $60+$15.  It can be $20+$8.  It can be $30+$5.  Box an subscription can be as dynamic a pay scale as F2P.  Only, the box and sub relieves the developers of bots/scammers galore and the dangers of hiding mechanics behind a paywall.

     

    It boggles my mind how developers/publishers spend so much time tailoring the F2P scheme to their MMO when they could do just as well (if not  better) by tailoring the box+sub scheme.  This release is a perfect example of that.

    image
  • grimalgrimal Member UncommonPosts: 2,908
    Originally posted by MadFrenchie

    Again, why are we looking at F2P as such a dynamic monetary route and leaving box+sub in such an archaic place?

     

    The box can be scaled in price to match the expectancy.  As can the sub.  It doesn't have to be $60+$15.  It can be $20+$8.  It can be $30+$5.  Box an subscription can be as dynamic a pay scale as F2P.  Only, the box and sub relieves the developers of bots/scammers galore and the dangers of hiding mechanics behind a paywall.

     

    It boggles my mind how developers/publishers spend so much time tailoring the F2P scheme to their MMO when they could do just as well (if not  better) by tailoring the box+sub scheme.  This release is a perfect example of that.

    I agree here.  I don't understand why they can't look at the sub model in a different fashion.   Who created the golden rule that it has to be $15 a month?

  • BoneserinoBoneserino Member UncommonPosts: 1,764

    I am playing  the alpha now.

    Since the game will be F2P I will probably continue to play.

    If it went sub, I am not so sure.

    I think F2P is best for this game.  A sandbox game needs players and I think a sub would kill this game pretty fast.

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • delta9delta9 Member UncommonPosts: 358
    Originally posted by Ozmodan
     

    Ah how basic do I need to get?  The only way to support the game is through item shop purchases.  Without people buying items there the game will fold.  Name me one f2p besides LOL that does not have required items in the shop?  You can't, because there isn't any.

    Secondly, developers lie, they all do.  Promised features never make it into the game, things like what is in the item shop always change when they realize they need to monetize the game more to pay for it.  If you think quoting a developer blog is proof that the item shop will be cosmetic only you are extremely naive.

    Welcome to the real world! 

    You do not need to get any more basic, you think there will be mandatory items that everyone will have to purchase in the cash shop while i do not

    One MMORPG that you can play for free and is nothing mandatory to buy in the cash shop to enjoy the game quite happily - easy SWToR - i know plenty of players who are enjoying that game right now and have been for a long time and have never spent a penny on it

    Like I said, at this stage, i trust the devs word over any player assumptions on how things will turn out.

    Also maybe you should read what i post too seeing as i did not say it will be cosmetic only, but cosmetic and convenience items

    Let us just agree to disagree here and wait and see how great a game this turns out to be instead :)

  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Member RarePosts: 1,625
    Originally posted by Ozmodan
    Originally posted by delta9
    Originally posted by Ozmodan

     

    The word of the day is "Read".  Show me where I even mentioned pay-to-win?  All I said was that the item shop will be mandatory to play, that does not mean it will be populated with any pay-to-win items.  There will certainly pay-to-play items.

    As to the deluded people that keep mentioning LOL, they are an aberation because they have so many players, the small population that pays is still quite large.  This game will never have that luxury.  

     

    i dont know what else would be mandatory to buy other than items that make you stronger / more competitive than others which is why i assumed by use of the word mandatory you meant p2w

    running a guild, extending your bank/inventory etc will not be mandatory

     

    i know plenty of people playing other f2p games who have never spent any money in them i dont see this game being any different in fact i see the devs here (who are far less corporate than in other games) wanting to appeal as much as possible to both a totally free player as well as someone who spends money

     

    Our focus in the shop will be on account perks and cosmetics primarily, and we'll also likely have low percentage skill gain stims similar to the ones that are in game (10-30%). There are no plans for things that cripple free players or make features annoyingly tough to the point that you have to buy something in the shop to get around it. As players, we hate those things. And as developers we feel that having those types of things in the shop drives away free players which hurts the game, because in our mind free players are still valuable.

     Name me one f2p besides LOL that does not have required items in the shop?  You can't, because there isn't any.

    smite

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