I'd rather see more levelless classless mmorpg with an emphasis on one character per player, significantly large worlds, and no "endgame".
The guy says MMORPGs are dead, then asks immediately for levelling. Why have the same tired, boring mechanics if you're tired of boring copies?
I want to make a character based on what I do with that character, whether it's the things it can do, how players and non-player characters precieve it, or even through intrigue and economics.
If my character can have a significant impact on a town in a world while remaining too weak to lift a sword and having no gold to his name, that's the kind of MMO I want.
Playing a character that starts using a bow, and thus can never, ever, in the decades you play be able to use an axe no matter how strong you get is just ridiculous and disgustingly ancient game design.
Let's not have "What class will you play"
Let's have "What are you going to do with your character?"
Originally posted by Kyleran While I do understand where you are coming from, I really don't think you understand the decade we are living in.
Games are being made exactly the way the majority of the player base wants, these features you list appeal to a much smaller niche which most larger developers are not interested in targeting.
this.
And I'm glad that I'm one of the majority...
[mod edit]
Ah, but maybe not everyone sees the modern MMO situation as bad. This is what the market wants and that's why we have what we have today.
Who knows what the future will bring. I'm cautiously keeping out hope for "The Repopulation" and "Camelot Unchained".
I agree MMORPG's are dead. The fact that the majority wants to play an MMORPG as a solo console game is sad. Back when i played EQ classic I thought gaming had a bright robust future. Who would of thought i was playing in the Golden Age.
Then again they still haven't made a RPG better then Chrono Trigger or a FPS better then Counterstrike/Goldeneye 64 so I guess devs are failing on multiple levels.
There isn't much out there for new MMOs besides Indie. Which is Ok. I'll just wait a few years to watch them develop,
In the meantime, going back to some old MMOs is still fun. I had a good stint with Guild Wars 1 for 6-7 months and currently getting heavy into Ryzom..still active communities out there, I don't think it's dead.
Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience. 'cause everyone thinks they're right, And nobody thinks that there just might Be more than one road to our final destination--
F2P games will and have always been populated out the arse.
However, If I was currently interested in playing a good sandbox I'd have little option. That should basically be the title of this thread.
The point is these new "blooming themeparks" are not real MMORPG's. They are solo centered 1 month wonders designed to trick you into paying as much as possible before you realize how pointless the game is.
The fact that you're using recent themeparks as an argument further proves how dead MMORPG's really are.
Originally posted by ChrisboxMMORPG isn't dead, not even close actually.There's two booming themeparks right now.F2P games will and have always been populated out the arse. However, If I was currently interested in playing a good sandbox I'd have little option. That should basically be the title of this thread.
The point is these new "blooming themeparks" are not real MMORPG's. They are solo centered 1 month wonders designed to trick you into paying as much as possible before you realize how pointless the game is.
The fact that you're using recent themeparks as an argument further proves how dead MMORPG's really are.
They are just as "real" mmorpg as any of the other games ever were. All they are is a game you don't happen to like that its.
And for 1 month wonders they sure have managed to keep a lot of people for a long time.
Edit - Why wouldn't he use a new mmorpg to show how alive the genre is? Would using an old mmo prove how alive the genre is today? *odd*
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
The OP´s definition of MMORPG fails to comply with my own definition of it... And so i must disagree with his statement, that leads me to believe that not the MMORPG genre is death, but that the MMORPG genre fails to deliver a game for his very specific gaming needs..
Case closed, i agree with the OP, that the MMORPGs currently creating dont fullfill his needs, and that there for his MMORPG career is as good as death...
Which keeps me wondering, why are people allways generalising their own specific troubles?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Question 2: During that golden age, how many people were playing MMORPGs?
Question 3: Is there any single niche MMORPG project extant today that's worth supporting and how many people play it?
Even if we think MMORPGs are dead, in a way this is a period of great expansion. Most attempts will fail, and a few will eventually yield some positive new direction. Thinking about starting a new business. You know the statistics on that. There may be more players that will play what we call a small niche game than who played a major game during the supposed golden age.
There are attempts being made now. I don't know how they will turn out, but people are trying: Project Gorgon, Gloria Victis, etc.
There are also existing games that refuse to die: Darkfall, Mortal Online, etc.
So in the last 10 years a lot has changed, but there is hope for a revival. I know we are impatient, but it will come. These kinds of periods of gross commercialism and lack of true innovation happen in film and music, as well.
Lets face it.. looking ahead nothing going to revive it either.. EQ Next.. maybe? probably not.. for all i know the game might aswell release 2017.
Im tired of following things.. i need to be a Hero and build my own IKEA Furniture
Crafting- Overrated.
Im tired of noobs/10 year olds making the same gear as i have..same mount.. same status..
im tired of the no existant death penalties..
When will MMORPG make it hard leveling? when will they truly innovate..
The F2P modell is sickening.. its all about getting them millions of players/bots/goldsellers etc..
so they can put up on the website "XXXXX Game just reached 5mil players"
Enough of the whine.. here are my general tips for a great new mmorpg..fitting the decade we live in.
Leveling is hard.. levels get blocked if you dont defeat some bosses/time trials.. for every 5-10 levels you are faced with that Challenge.. one player can be stuck on lvl 40 for 3 weeks.. i dont give a f.. he better play better.
Gear is extremly hard to get by.. but they look good.. and rewards you..
Politcal Parties.. yes you heard me.. tax issues/housing/war/sales etc.. you vote for what suits you best.
I want new players to look like ordinary soldiers..i dont want them to be a Hero from lvl 1.. i.e WoW is like big friggin circus.. everyone has purple dragons.. and 2meter long swords.. there are actually 100 Heroes per like 1 NPC inhabitant.. logic much. (not just wow every game.. just a town with 100s of heroes)
maybe its the beer..or maybe its the boredom.. nothing to play.. maybe i just cheerish the golden years of MMORPG EQ1>WoW.. but that was that Decade.. why are we forced to play the old.. when we have all that takes to make it better&new.
Please let the game be expensive, monthly aswell.. id rather have a fine community than circus..
I want to face Dragons... knowing that if i die i might not be able to ressurect 24h.. but if me and my mates manage to kill him we get the epic treasure chest behind him..which will enrich us. But you think thats all? you failed to kill the Dragon and you cant rez for a long time.. hell no.. that Dragon revenges and flies away to your house and burns it down.
So you put all MMOs in the category EQ-WOW and if one of these 2 is not to your liking the whole genre is dead...
I feel sorry for you that you have such a limited vision.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Originally posted by Kyleran While I do understand where you are coming from, I really don't think you understand the decade we are living in.
Games are being made exactly the way the majority of the player base wants, these features you list appeal to a much smaller niche which most larger developers are not interested in targeting.
this.
And I'm glad that I'm one of the majority...
[mod edit]
We are talking about gaming here ... "good" and "bad" are subjective. They are just preferences.
The point is if you are like me, who have preferences closer to the majority of gamer, gaming is great.
MMORPG.com really needs to make a mega thread for this topic. Video games are a multi billion dollar industry. MMOs will most certainly have a share of that.
While I do understand where you are coming from, I really don't think you understand the decade we are living in.
Games are being made exactly the way the majority of the player base wants, these features you list appeal to a much smaller niche which most larger developers are not interested in targeting.
While I do understand where you are coming from, I really don't think you understand the decade we are living in.
Games are being made exactly the way the majority of the player base wants, these features you list appeal to a much smaller niche which most larger developers are not interested in targeting.
So then the problem is who develops games now.
That is not a problem, per se. The market works (though not perfectly) that a large number of players are entertained, and devs have a living to make.
I'm currently really happy where MMORPGs are. While Final Fantasy XIV is my main game at the moment, I also bounce over to Guild Wars 2 and The Secret World on a regular basis. And while I simply can't get into the space setting, Eve Online is exactly what I would want in a sandbox if I could.
The industry has moved away from the supergrinding, punishing MMORPGs of the past, and I don't see them going back to that style ever again. Accessibility is king.
I'm not happy with mmo's right now but for different reasons than everyone else. I want dragon breeding, farming, ecology, simulation and damn the high graphics that take new gaming consoles and expensive PC equipment that I can't afford. I've compromised and play single player games with strong supportive forum communities. I've met more friends thru single player games than I ever did in mmo's!
I'm playing Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen now which has strong social network as you create follower npcs that play together (rather than your main character).
While I do understand where you are coming from, I really don't think you understand the decade we are living in.
Games are being made exactly the way the majority of the player base wants, these features you list appeal to a much smaller niche which most larger developers are not interested in targeting.
While I do understand where you are coming from, I really don't think you understand the decade we are living in.
Games are being made exactly the way the majority of the player base wants, these features you list appeal to a much smaller niche which most larger developers are not interested in targeting.
So then the problem is who develops games now.
That is not a problem, per se. The market works (though not perfectly) that a large number of players are entertained, and devs have a living to make.
While I do understand where you are coming from, I really don't think you understand the decade we are living in.
Games are being made exactly the way the majority of the player base wants, these features you list appeal to a much smaller niche which most larger developers are not interested in targeting.
So then the problem is who develops games now.
That is not a problem, per se. The market works (though not perfectly) that a large number of players are entertained, and devs have a living to make.
Or the CEOs have a living to make
Don't tell me only the CEOs have to eat, but not the producers, writers, coders, level-designers, artists, and QAs.
While I do understand where you are coming from, I really don't think you understand the decade we are living in.
Games are being made exactly the way the majority of the player base wants, these features you list appeal to a much smaller niche which most larger developers are not interested in targeting.
So then the problem is who develops games now.
That is not a problem, per se. The market works (though not perfectly) that a large number of players are entertained, and devs have a living to make.
Or the CEOs have a living to make
Don't tell me only the CEOs have to eat, but not the producers, writers, coders, level-designers, artists, and QAs.
Who gives a shit. The end product is all that matters. If you are buying games because you want to donate to game makers then you have some strange thinking. The masses who meet the median and mean description get the game they want because they collectively have the deepest pockets.
If you are in the "niche" audience then as long as there is a newish game to play with your features that should be good enough. Trying to make the unwashed masses like an old school game is a fool's errand, and isn't actually in alignment with your goals anyway. Buy the games (for the game, not to support anyone) that come out with the features that you like.
Games can still be bad even if they have a good list of features and systems, so like Narius would say just go on and buy/sub/play the next game that meets your needs.
If you are an old school player who needs the gaming populace to change to your tastes then I think you are basically trying to be the bad guy, hoping for world domination through forum wars.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Games can still be bad even if they have a good list of features and systems, so like Narius would say just go on and buy/sub/play the next game that meets your needs.
Of course. What else can a consumer do in a free market? And it is not like we are talking about global warming or world peace. We are talking about entertainment products, which are personal choices.
While I do understand where you are coming from, I really don't think you understand the decade we are living in.
Games are being made exactly the way the majority of the player base wants, these features you list appeal to a much smaller niche which most larger developers are not interested in targeting.
So then the problem is who develops games now.
That is not a problem, per se. The market works (though not perfectly) that a large number of players are entertained, and devs have a living to make.
Or the CEOs have a living to make
Don't tell me only the CEOs have to eat, but not the producers, writers, coders, level-designers, artists, and QAs.
Who gives a shit. The end product is all that matters. If you are buying games because you want to donate to game makers then you have some strange thinking. The masses who meet the median and mean description get the game they want because they collectively have the deepest pockets.
If you are in the "niche" audience then as long as there is a newish game to play with your features that should be good enough. Trying to make the unwashed masses like an old school game is a fool's errand, and isn't actually in alignment with your goals anyway. Buy the games (for the game, not to support anyone) that come out with the features that you like.
Games can still be bad even if they have a good list of features and systems, so like Narius would say just go on and buy/sub/play the next game that meets your needs.
If you are an old school player who needs the gaming populace to change to your tastes then I think you are basically trying to be the bad guy, hoping for world domination through forum wars.
Please tell me of this magical game that "meets my needs."
And to the other person, maybe the CEOs shouldn't be eating so much.
F2P games will and have always been populated out the arse.
However, If I was currently interested in playing a good sandbox I'd have little option. That should basically be the title of this thread.
The point is these new "blooming themeparks" are not real MMORPG's. They are solo centered 1 month wonders designed to trick you into paying as much as possible before you realize how pointless the game is.
The fact that you're using recent themeparks as an argument further proves how dead MMORPG's really are.
Your use of the word real is simply wrong. They are just as real as any other game. I'm sorry they don't fit your taste.
Comments
i like it.. lets start a gaming company:D
Ah, but maybe not everyone sees the modern MMO situation as bad. This is what the market wants and that's why we have what we have today.
Who knows what the future will bring. I'm cautiously keeping out hope for "The Repopulation" and "Camelot Unchained".
I agree MMORPG's are dead. The fact that the majority wants to play an MMORPG as a solo console game is sad. Back when i played EQ classic I thought gaming had a bright robust future. Who would of thought i was playing in the Golden Age.
Then again they still haven't made a RPG better then Chrono Trigger or a FPS better then Counterstrike/Goldeneye 64 so I guess devs are failing on multiple levels.
There isn't much out there for new MMOs besides Indie. Which is Ok. I'll just wait a few years to watch them develop,
In the meantime, going back to some old MMOs is still fun. I had a good stint with Guild Wars 1 for 6-7 months and currently getting heavy into Ryzom..still active communities out there, I don't think it's dead.
Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
'cause everyone thinks they're right,
And nobody thinks that there just might
Be more than one road to our final destination--
MMORPG isn't dead, not even close actually.
There's two booming themeparks right now.
F2P games will and have always been populated out the arse.
However, If I was currently interested in playing a good sandbox I'd have little option. That should basically be the title of this thread.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
The point is these new "blooming themeparks" are not real MMORPG's. They are solo centered 1 month wonders designed to trick you into paying as much as possible before you realize how pointless the game is.
The fact that you're using recent themeparks as an argument further proves how dead MMORPG's really are.
What a waste of time thread. If you don't like the genre, go play something else. There is innovation. Take a look at some upcoming indie titles.
MMORPG isn't dead. It was never that big to begin with. Other than WoW, no other game has been very big.
You can still play EQ if you want.
They are just as "real" mmorpg as any of the other games ever were. All they are is a game you don't happen to like that its.
And for 1 month wonders they sure have managed to keep a lot of people for a long time.
Edit - Why wouldn't he use a new mmorpg to show how alive the genre is? Would using an old mmo prove how alive the genre is today? *odd*
The OP´s definition of MMORPG fails to comply with my own definition of it... And so i must disagree with his statement, that leads me to believe that not the MMORPG genre is death, but that the MMORPG genre fails to deliver a game for his very specific gaming needs..
Case closed, i agree with the OP, that the MMORPGs currently creating dont fullfill his needs, and that there for his MMORPG career is as good as death...
Which keeps me wondering, why are people allways generalising their own specific troubles?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Question 1: When was the golden age for MMORPGs?
Question 2: During that golden age, how many people were playing MMORPGs?
Question 3: Is there any single niche MMORPG project extant today that's worth supporting and how many people play it?
Even if we think MMORPGs are dead, in a way this is a period of great expansion. Most attempts will fail, and a few will eventually yield some positive new direction. Thinking about starting a new business. You know the statistics on that. There may be more players that will play what we call a small niche game than who played a major game during the supposed golden age.
There are attempts being made now. I don't know how they will turn out, but people are trying: Project Gorgon, Gloria Victis, etc.
There are also existing games that refuse to die: Darkfall, Mortal Online, etc.
So in the last 10 years a lot has changed, but there is hope for a revival. I know we are impatient, but it will come. These kinds of periods of gross commercialism and lack of true innovation happen in film and music, as well.
So you put all MMOs in the category EQ-WOW and if one of these 2 is not to your liking the whole genre is dead...
I feel sorry for you that you have such a limited vision.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
We are talking about gaming here ... "good" and "bad" are subjective. They are just preferences.
The point is if you are like me, who have preferences closer to the majority of gamer, gaming is great.
I self identify as a monkey.
So then the problem is who develops games now.
That is not a problem, per se. The market works (though not perfectly) that a large number of players are entertained, and devs have a living to make.
I'm currently really happy where MMORPGs are. While Final Fantasy XIV is my main game at the moment, I also bounce over to Guild Wars 2 and The Secret World on a regular basis. And while I simply can't get into the space setting, Eve Online is exactly what I would want in a sandbox if I could.
The industry has moved away from the supergrinding, punishing MMORPGs of the past, and I don't see them going back to that style ever again. Accessibility is king.
I'm not happy with mmo's right now but for different reasons than everyone else. I want dragon breeding, farming, ecology, simulation and damn the high graphics that take new gaming consoles and expensive PC equipment that I can't afford. I've compromised and play single player games with strong supportive forum communities. I've met more friends thru single player games than I ever did in mmo's!
I'm playing Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen now which has strong social network as you create follower npcs that play together (rather than your main character).
. edit spelling error
Maybe?
Aye
Looking for a family that you can game with for life? Check out Grievance at https://www.grievancegaming.org !
Or the CEOs have a living to make
Don't tell me only the CEOs have to eat, but not the producers, writers, coders, level-designers, artists, and QAs.
Who gives a shit. The end product is all that matters. If you are buying games because you want to donate to game makers then you have some strange thinking. The masses who meet the median and mean description get the game they want because they collectively have the deepest pockets.
If you are in the "niche" audience then as long as there is a newish game to play with your features that should be good enough. Trying to make the unwashed masses like an old school game is a fool's errand, and isn't actually in alignment with your goals anyway. Buy the games (for the game, not to support anyone) that come out with the features that you like.
Games can still be bad even if they have a good list of features and systems, so like Narius would say just go on and buy/sub/play the next game that meets your needs.
If you are an old school player who needs the gaming populace to change to your tastes then I think you are basically trying to be the bad guy, hoping for world domination through forum wars.
Of course. What else can a consumer do in a free market? And it is not like we are talking about global warming or world peace. We are talking about entertainment products, which are personal choices.
Please tell me of this magical game that "meets my needs."
And to the other person, maybe the CEOs shouldn't be eating so much.
Your use of the word real is simply wrong. They are just as real as any other game. I'm sorry they don't fit your taste.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL