I for one love the game. There is lots to do and you can take your time to enjoy the whole process as you level. That's the things with players in MMORPG's now. Al they want to do is rush to max level and complain about everything. They skip all the content and all the beauty of the game.
1) Bots: Every game has them. It's an evil that will never leave the mmorpg market. World of warcraft, being the most popular mmorpg, has more bots than any game will ever have. Gold Farming is a billion dollar industry, it is never going to go away anytime soon, just learn to live with it.
2) Cash Shop: It is not P2W. The only people that feel this way are those that refuse to put money to have helpful items or cosmetics. It doesn't make me more powerful than the next player. Sure, it can make me a little richer by selling on the AH, but when it comes to PvP, I can't buy an item that will make me stronger than the next. Also, anything on the cash shop can be bought in the auction house, the only difference between me and you is, I can use cash, you just need to grind gold. Time is money, and being as I only get 2 hours a day if I'm lucky, you can grind out gold and have the same things I can.
3) F2P: This is the part that is funny. Everybody expects a F2P game to be completely free. The developers spent all these years making this game, why should they expect any money in return right? Why don't you go to work for 6 months without pay and tell me how your life is. I have bought Patron and also stuff off the cash shop. The developers deserve that for the time they have put into this game.
4) Labor: There is plenty to do in this game that doesn't require labor. If all your playing this game for is labor intensive things, then this game is not for you. If all you want to do is farm all day long, of course you won't have the labor for that. If all you want to do is fish 24/7, you won't be able too. Labor is there to help out the economy so the market doesn't get overrun by the people who have 24 hours a day to play the game non stop. God forbid a game is created equal to help players that don't have as much time as others. I only get 2 hours a day if I'm lucky to play, maybe that's why labor is not a huge deal for me.
5) Sandbox: This game might not be 100% sandbox, but it's already a step in the right direction. People complain about theme park quests. Yet if quests weren't there, or to scattered around, people would have to grind mobs. Then, people would complain about having to grind mobs to level, because they can't find quests. I don't understand what people think. They don't like questing and they don't like grinding. This generation of players is impossible to please. They want their max level characters without the effort required to get there.
All in all, in my opinion, this game is the most fun mmorpg on the market right now. I have been playing mmorpgs since Asheron's Call, and have tried every mmorpg out there, both F2P and P2P. It might not be perfect, but at least it's different, and that's what makes it so much fun to me.
What makes ArcheAge such a good game is the fact that you are not required to play it. That statement does not make much sense, but it is on par with the logic of the apologists.
@ OP I would echo some others and say there are various issues with the business model.
However, if you just want to try the game, it's generally fun IMO just on the gameplay and story fronts. I'm leveling up a character strictly to go through the main story quest and a few associated gameplay systems along the way. The cost to me so far? Nothing. Hacking, botting, PTW drama, Cash Shop drama etc. won't affect you if that's all you're doing.
If you really feel like the game is home after that, get into a decent guild and have at it. :-)
It's also a great pve game that chokes out pve at level 30ish.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I for one love the game. There is lots to do and you can take your time to enjoy the whole process as you level. That's the things with players in MMORPG's now. Al they want to do is rush to max level and complain about everything. They skip all the content and all the beauty of the game.
1) Bots: Every game has them. It's an evil that will never leave the mmorpg market. World of warcraft, being the most popular mmorpg, has more bots than any game will ever have. Gold Farming is a billion dollar industry, it is never going to go away anytime soon, just learn to live with it.
Well if every game has them then it must be ok... terrible logic. I dont know of any other MMO I have played where everyday when I open my mail my box has 3 to 5 spam messages from goldsellers.
2) Cash Shop: It is not P2W. The only people that feel this way are those that refuse to put money to have helpful items or cosmetics. It doesn't make me more powerful than the next player. Sure, it can make me a little richer by selling on the AH, but when it comes to PvP, I can't buy an item that will make me stronger than the next. Also, anything on the cash shop can be bought in the auction house, the only difference between me and you is, I can use cash, you just need to grind gold. Time is money, and being as I only get 2 hours a day if I'm lucky, you can grind out gold and have the same things I can.
I can use real money and buy Apex, sell the Apex for ingame currency and then use that ingame gold to buy a del-whatever bow and the best armor. How is that NOT pay to win?
3) F2P: This is the part that is funny. Everybody expects a F2P game to be completely free. The developers spent all these years making this game, why should they expect any money in return right? Why don't you go to work for 6 months without pay and tell me how your life is. I have bought Patron and also stuff off the cash shop. The developers deserve that for the time they have put into this game.
Agreed, but they do have a very restrictive F2P model and without friends/guild, earning the 600 gold needed to buy your first patron can be very hard for the average player.
4) Labor: There is plenty to do in this game that doesn't require labor. If all your playing this game for is labor intensive things, then this game is not for you. If all you want to do is farm all day long, of course you won't have the labor for that. If all you want to do is fish 24/7, you won't be able too. Labor is there to help out the economy so the market doesn't get overrun by the people who have 24 hours a day to play the game non stop. God forbid a game is created equal to help players that don't have as much time as others. I only get 2 hours a day if I'm lucky to play, maybe that's why labor is not a huge deal for me.
The only thing that does not require labor is fighting. To open loot (coinpurses) requires labor, to open your mail cost one labor, fishing costs labor, farming cost labor, chopping down a tree requires labor even teleporting needs labor to make the stones used to move around the map. PvP and questing are the ONLY thing that dont require labor.
5) Sandbox: This game might not be 100% sandbox, but it's already a step in the right direction. People complain about theme park quests. Yet if quests weren't there, or to scattered around, people would have to grind mobs. Then, people would complain about having to grind mobs to level, because they can't find quests. I don't understand what people think. They don't like questing and they don't like grinding. This generation of players is impossible to please. They want their max level characters without the effort required to get there.
Agreed
All in all, in my opinion, this game is the most fun mmorpg on the market right now. I have been playing mmorpgs since Asheron's Call, and have tried every mmorpg out there, both F2P and P2P. It might not be perfect, but at least it's different, and that's what makes it so much fun to me.
A lot of my issues with the game stem from the poor management. Why introduce the new continent when it serves no real purpose? Castles whet to the lucky ones you could log in and the only castles that have fallen as of now have been from a few guilds who have lost too many players to mount a defense. Why did they put thunderstuck trees in lockboxes when they are needed for all vehicles, most boats and siege weapons? Why not up the chance of getting them in the wild through farming trees? Why did they not allow some kind of labor potion to be craftable instead of making them cash-shop only? Why is crafting totally based on random number generation and not skill based?
The bulk of the game is very fun but it just seems that every step has been taken to milk the players out of more money than just the 15$ a month patron fee. Patron only opens the door to the cash shop.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
I'd blame XL more so than Trion for many of AA's problem, but Trion has had some shady activity since AA's release, like purchases packs and such without individual's acknowledgement.
The core of the game is fine. I for one think if the game had been P2P without a cash shop it would be damn near perfect. What does suck are the decisions made by Trion/XL. Absolutely the worst i've ever seen, and the inevitable reason that I quit. I haven't looked back and don't miss it one bit.
Originally posted by mcrippins The core of the game is fine. I for one think if the game had been P2P without a cash shop it would be damn near perfect. What does suck are the decisions made by Trion/XL. Absolutely the worst i've ever seen, and the inevitable reason that I quit. I haven't looked back and don't miss it one bit.
Yes, except the core of the game is not fine. A PvP centric game should not be so highly gear dependent as AA is. (I heared that castle siege is broken too.)
Also the core design of the game assigns too much functionality to the client, making it way too vulnerable to hacking.
Originally posted by lugal The comments I saw, were saying the game during beta was fantastic. Then launch hit with the real game. Then the hate came.
It's Wildstar all over again.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Originally posted by mcrippins The core of the game is fine. I for one think if the game had been P2P without a cash shop it would be damn near perfect. What does suck are the decisions made by Trion/XL. Absolutely the worst i've ever seen, and the inevitable reason that I quit. I haven't looked back and don't miss it one bit.
Yes, except the core of the game is not fine. A PvP centric game should not be so highly gear dependent as AA is. (I heared that castle siege is broken too.)
Also the core design of the game assigns too much functionality to the client, making it way too vulnerable to hacking.
The gear dependence is core design to the genre of MMORG's.
First Person Shooter <-- this way for all those who want gear not belonging into MMORPG's.
Castle sieges could use some changes indeed tho.
I see Archeage as the best release of an MMORPG since the oldscool days. Its a full MMORPG supporting all playstyles.
XL games did a great job designing the gameplay principles of Archeage.
Originally posted by mcrippins The core of the game is fine. I for one think if the game had been P2P without a cash shop it would be damn near perfect. What does suck are the decisions made by Trion/XL. Absolutely the worst i've ever seen, and the inevitable reason that I quit. I haven't looked back and don't miss it one bit.
Yes, except the core of the game is not fine. A PvP centric game should not be so highly gear dependent as AA is. (I heared that castle siege is broken too.)
Also the core design of the game assigns too much functionality to the client, making it way too vulnerable to hacking.
The gear dependence is core design to the genre of MMORG's.
That would make an interesting discussion in itself. However, I was not talking about whether gear dependency belongs in a mmorpg, but about the extend of it, especially when PvP is central to the game.
I used to think that PvP does not belong in mmorpg's too till I played one in which gear dependency did not over-shadow user skill in PvP. Of course, the combat system in AA is far from innovative, therefore expectations were already tempered, but they went over the top in the gear dependency department.
Originally posted by mcrippins The core of the game is fine. I for one think if the game had been P2P without a cash shop it would be damn near perfect. What does suck are the decisions made by Trion/XL. Absolutely the worst i've ever seen, and the inevitable reason that I quit. I haven't looked back and don't miss it one bit.
Yes, except the core of the game is not fine. A PvP centric game should not be so highly gear dependent as AA is. (I heared that castle siege is broken too.)
Also the core design of the game assigns too much functionality to the client, making it way too vulnerable to hacking.
The gear dependence is core design to the genre of MMORG's.
That would make an interesting discussion in itself. However, I was not talking about whether gear dependency belongs in a mmorpg, but about the extend of it, especially when PvP is central to the game.
I used to think that PvP does not belong in mmorpg's too till I played one in which gear dependency did not over-shadow user skill in PvP. Of course, the combat system in AA is far from innovative, therefore expectations were already tempered, but they went over the top in the gear dependency department.
I wonder which game that was that offers crap gear as gameplay feature.
If gear is of no importance then its crap gear.
We need things on our avatars that make him differ from each other and not only flat and cosmetics but also regarding the "vertical" ability of chars to have accumulated some advatantage over fresh rolled newbies.
Archeage offers a fast progression to max lvl, so skill progression wise Archeage isn't good in being a MMORPG (MMORPG's main motv is expanding and advancing a avatar(alter ego) in a virtual world). This has to be balanced. obtaining good and better gear over time is one measure to counter that.
On top of that it opens up room for different plystyles in that crafters can excell in offerting there abilities to provide you with such.
Since the very first tabletop RPG games gear plays an core role in that genre.
There are MOBA's and Shooter for people dont respect the MMORPG genre..
Like with every Korean MMO, they put all their eggs in the PVP basket, which generally wears off after a month.
I'd personally kill for a PVE focused, EQ1/SWG style MMO with Eastern art style. That's what i was hoping AA would be.
Same. I've found every PvP only mmo to be extremely lacking after a matter of months if not weeks. My favorite PvP of all time was in classic Everquest, because we actually had something meaningful to fight over - PvE content. This led to constant battles over dungeons and raid mobs. While I realize that wasn't the point of your post, the fact remains, if a game isn't fun without pvp, its never fun with it.
Is the core game bad? No at it's core most people will agree it's a good game. However gambling, management, exploits, hacks, bots, and the simple fact of being trapped in an outdated patch with some current patch things (i.e. castles with level 55 walls) Have really screwed up what is genuinely a good game.
1.7 will fix some things, what needs to happen is less focus on cash grab more focus on subscription based model. AA if it switched from ftp to sub based, could aid in putting the game at triple A status, together with an aggressive approach to fixing the exploits, hacks and cheats, by changing from hack shield to a better hack software.
Easily fixed problems, that could take a good game, at it's core, to a great game that could compete with other triple A titles. All it takes is for Trion and Xlgames to get out of their short term greed haze, and move forward to a more sustainable long enduring goals. All to often very good games have died due to greed of management, they need to wake up.
Memory leaks, crashes, texture loading problems, and things of this nature have not helped AA at all.
Add in some perceived broken promises from Trion, a rough launch, and very little exiciting/new. Many players aren't going to patiently wade through all the issues until a more complete, solid game arrives.
Comments
I for one love the game. There is lots to do and you can take your time to enjoy the whole process as you level. That's the things with players in MMORPG's now. Al they want to do is rush to max level and complain about everything. They skip all the content and all the beauty of the game.
1) Bots: Every game has them. It's an evil that will never leave the mmorpg market. World of warcraft, being the most popular mmorpg, has more bots than any game will ever have. Gold Farming is a billion dollar industry, it is never going to go away anytime soon, just learn to live with it.
2) Cash Shop: It is not P2W. The only people that feel this way are those that refuse to put money to have helpful items or cosmetics. It doesn't make me more powerful than the next player. Sure, it can make me a little richer by selling on the AH, but when it comes to PvP, I can't buy an item that will make me stronger than the next. Also, anything on the cash shop can be bought in the auction house, the only difference between me and you is, I can use cash, you just need to grind gold. Time is money, and being as I only get 2 hours a day if I'm lucky, you can grind out gold and have the same things I can.
3) F2P: This is the part that is funny. Everybody expects a F2P game to be completely free. The developers spent all these years making this game, why should they expect any money in return right? Why don't you go to work for 6 months without pay and tell me how your life is. I have bought Patron and also stuff off the cash shop. The developers deserve that for the time they have put into this game.
4) Labor: There is plenty to do in this game that doesn't require labor. If all your playing this game for is labor intensive things, then this game is not for you. If all you want to do is farm all day long, of course you won't have the labor for that. If all you want to do is fish 24/7, you won't be able too. Labor is there to help out the economy so the market doesn't get overrun by the people who have 24 hours a day to play the game non stop. God forbid a game is created equal to help players that don't have as much time as others. I only get 2 hours a day if I'm lucky to play, maybe that's why labor is not a huge deal for me.
5) Sandbox: This game might not be 100% sandbox, but it's already a step in the right direction. People complain about theme park quests. Yet if quests weren't there, or to scattered around, people would have to grind mobs. Then, people would complain about having to grind mobs to level, because they can't find quests. I don't understand what people think. They don't like questing and they don't like grinding. This generation of players is impossible to please. They want their max level characters without the effort required to get there.
All in all, in my opinion, this game is the most fun mmorpg on the market right now. I have been playing mmorpgs since Asheron's Call, and have tried every mmorpg out there, both F2P and P2P. It might not be perfect, but at least it's different, and that's what makes it so much fun to me.
It takes one to know one.
@ OP I would echo some others and say there are various issues with the business model.
However, if you just want to try the game, it's generally fun IMO just on the gameplay and story fronts. I'm leveling up a character strictly to go through the main story quest and a few associated gameplay systems along the way. The cost to me so far? Nothing. Hacking, botting, PTW drama, Cash Shop drama etc. won't affect you if that's all you're doing.
If you really feel like the game is home after that, get into a decent guild and have at it. :-)
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Yes, except the core of the game is not fine. A PvP centric game should not be so highly gear dependent as AA is. (I heared that castle siege is broken too.)
Also the core design of the game assigns too much functionality to the client, making it way too vulnerable to hacking.
It takes one to know one.
It's Wildstar all over again.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
The gear dependence is core design to the genre of MMORG's.
First Person Shooter <-- this way for all those who want gear not belonging into MMORPG's.
Castle sieges could use some changes indeed tho.
I see Archeage as the best release of an MMORPG since the oldscool days. Its a full MMORPG supporting all playstyles.
XL games did a great job designing the gameplay principles of Archeage.
That would make an interesting discussion in itself. However, I was not talking about whether gear dependency belongs in a mmorpg, but about the extend of it, especially when PvP is central to the game.
I used to think that PvP does not belong in mmorpg's too till I played one in which gear dependency did not over-shadow user skill in PvP. Of course, the combat system in AA is far from innovative, therefore expectations were already tempered, but they went over the top in the gear dependency department.
It takes one to know one.
This is actually the best advice anyone could give, for every game available.
I often start by watching youtube gameplay videos, and if that is interesting enough, and the game is F2P, why not just download it and try it out?
Take others opinions with a grain of salt, make up your own mind.
Gotta love threads like this. Maybe the OP needs a lesson.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question
So....have you stopped beating your wife?
I wonder which game that was that offers crap gear as gameplay feature.
If gear is of no importance then its crap gear.
We need things on our avatars that make him differ from each other and not only flat and cosmetics but also regarding the "vertical" ability of chars to have accumulated some advatantage over fresh rolled newbies.
Archeage offers a fast progression to max lvl, so skill progression wise Archeage isn't good in being a MMORPG (MMORPG's main motv is expanding and advancing a avatar(alter ego) in a virtual world). This has to be balanced. obtaining good and better gear over time is one measure to counter that.
On top of that it opens up room for different plystyles in that crafters can excell in offerting there abilities to provide you with such.
Since the very first tabletop RPG games gear plays an core role in that genre.
There are MOBA's and Shooter for people dont respect the MMORPG genre..
Same. I've found every PvP only mmo to be extremely lacking after a matter of months if not weeks. My favorite PvP of all time was in classic Everquest, because we actually had something meaningful to fight over - PvE content. This led to constant battles over dungeons and raid mobs. While I realize that wasn't the point of your post, the fact remains, if a game isn't fun without pvp, its never fun with it.
Is the core game bad? No at it's core most people will agree it's a good game. However gambling, management, exploits, hacks, bots, and the simple fact of being trapped in an outdated patch with some current patch things (i.e. castles with level 55 walls) Have really screwed up what is genuinely a good game.
1.7 will fix some things, what needs to happen is less focus on cash grab more focus on subscription based model. AA if it switched from ftp to sub based, could aid in putting the game at triple A status, together with an aggressive approach to fixing the exploits, hacks and cheats, by changing from hack shield to a better hack software.
Easily fixed problems, that could take a good game, at it's core, to a great game that could compete with other triple A titles. All it takes is for Trion and Xlgames to get out of their short term greed haze, and move forward to a more sustainable long enduring goals. All to often very good games have died due to greed of management, they need to wake up.
Memory leaks, crashes, texture loading problems, and things of this nature have not helped AA at all.
Add in some perceived broken promises from Trion, a rough launch, and very little exiciting/new. Many players aren't going to patiently wade through all the issues until a more complete, solid game arrives.