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No flying experiment has failed in WoD

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  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,858
    Your opinion OP is yours of course. The "experiment" has hardly failed and I haven't even noticed not being able to fly. The expansion isn't that big that it really makes a difference imho.  /shrug

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 7,794
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    Originally posted by Hoplites

    unlike other MMO's that age with time, this is the first that has made playing content at level cap more painful and reduced replay value.

    What a shame.

    .

     

     

    Couldn't disagree with you more, much better game because of it. Makes the world feel alive again.

    How would it make any difference in how alive the world feels?

    Then again I have never once understood why people are against the idea of flying mounts in the first place, or bypassing seas of uninteresting mobs, etc... Wanna walk through the world, walk through it but don't complain because someone else isn't, that should have no effect on your personal experience.

    Human nature is the majority will always take the easy path first. To keep up with everyone you are forced to take that same path. I will give you just one example. I would do just as you suggested and I would walk, killing my way to a node (mine or quest node) and often when I was killing the last few mobs to get it, someone would fly down, click the node and fly off. This didnt happen just a few times, it was often. In the end you conform to keep up. I could list many other reason why but I think this makes the point.



  • Brisky29Brisky29 Member Posts: 65

    I wasn't sure what to think about the "no flying" when I first purchased the expac. And let it be stated that I DO like flying, my stance is sort of middle of the road on flying mounts, I can see merits to the arguments on both sides. 

    Until I seen this thread, however, I honestly forgot about it entirely. Flying literally never even crossed my mind I've been so engrossed questing, treasure hunting, etc. The fact I haven't missed flying at all tells me I certainly don't need it to be happy in this game, but that is just me.

    I will say, there is a certain appeal to being able to have that beautiful bird's eye view every now and then. I suspect they will bring flying to Dreanor at some point, probably after the first patch or so. 

  • sodade21sodade21 Member UncommonPosts: 349
    Love the decision for No flying mounts. I wouldn't mind if the allow flying after 6-9 months.
  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,858
    Originally posted by Brisky29

    I wasn't sure what to think about the "no flying" when I first purchased the expac. And let it be stated that I DO like flying, my stance is sort of middle of the road on flying mounts, I can see merits to the arguments on both sides. 

    Until I seen this thread, however, I honestly forgot about it entirely. Flying literally never even crossed my mind I've been so engrossed questing, treasure hunting, etc. The fact I haven't missed flying at all tells me I certainly don't need it to be happy in this game, but that is just me.

    I will say, there is a certain appeal to being able to have that beautiful bird's eye view every now and then. I suspect they will bring flying to Dreanor at some point, probably after the first patch or so. 

    Perfect post for the discussion. You mirror my thoughts exactly. 

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,461
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by gervaise1

    I am surprised there are not more people campaigning for the "instance transporter" to be removed; to get rid of the insta-porting to scenarios / dungeons / raids - which made flying pretty redundant. If they did that people would actually have to travel to the entrances ....the way it used to be ...

    Now you're just talking crazy. image

    I think many feel that some fast travel is fine, but not when it's the same old trip to a dungeon entrance that serves no real purpose, not even a decent sight-seeing trip.

    Not all fast travel is considered a bad idea, but as for the people in this thread, they are more or less happy flying is not part of WoD.

    Why?

    OK rhetorical question! However your (indirect) implication is that people only travel on foot "a small number of times" - otherwise it is the same old trip whether you fly, walk or run. And the pretty flowers on the way can only do so much. 

    Every - absolutely every - argument why flying is bad and walking is good can be applied to "insta-porting" whether they are valid arguments or not.

    Nor do I consider "insta-porting" to be "fast travel". You are simply lifted out of the game, deposited in the instance and then returned mid-step. It is a convenience. Fast travel actually takes you from point A to point B via some portal stone or whatever. Or via a skill as in e.g. CoH or more recent games like Titanfall, Destiny etc.

    It is  question of degree.

    • Walking takes you from point A to some content via some obstacles in some time
    • Flying takes you from point A to some content via (nominally) less obstacles in less time
    • Insta-porting .... zero obstacles ... zero time and instant return as well.
    Combined with garrisons the world could become very empty indeed!
     
    Subscription numbers and exit feedback however will determine whether the ban on flying changes - weighed against the cost of introducing it. 

     

     

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,821
    From a former long time WoW perspective, flying felt good. Not many game worlds are completely playable. Meaning if you can see it you can touch it, WoW was one.

    The only reasons I can see for not having it are the cost of building a fully playable world and/or the want to slow down the pace of content consumption.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,821
    You can't just flip a switch and make flying active...
  • dotdotdashdotdotdash Member UncommonPosts: 477


    Originally posted by Hoplites
    Flying added replay value to the game and encouraged exploration of the game world.

    WoW isn't worth a sub anymore when other MMO's out there offer better traveling systems, many that are free to play.  If I want to be grounded I would fire up an older MMO or play a platformer.

    Removal of flight was done to prolong the lack of content and hide that they have nothing to hold over players till the next patch.


    You are right. Removing flying makes the content that is in the game go further than it would do with flying involved. To suggest that this amounts to Blizzard not giving us enough content is utter rubbish however. It was flying mounts in the first place that led to the devaluing of existing content as it allows players to skip huge chunks of that content as and when they see fit. The seeding of the world with champion mobs and world bosses for Warlords of Darkness was one of he reasons Blizzard removed flying on top of the fact that people were simply skipping the content and leveling to end game far faster than Blizzard could cope with. If removing flying mounts and going back to ground base traveling buys Blizzard more time to ship better content at end game then I am perfectly happy with the arrangement. Flying mounts are fun, but the novelty wears off when they become a way to skip content that isn't gated. The choice Blizzard had was to gate even more content or to simply remove flying. The former compartmentalises the world, the latter keeps the world in tact. I know which I would go for if I were a developer.

    Additionally, flying did not encourage exploration. It encourages combat avoidance. Instead of EXPLORING the world and dealing with the challenges it presented at a ground level, flying allowed to skip vast chunks of the world in order to get to very specific pieces that you'd already identified by talking to other players or looking on the net. Flying removed any incentive to look around because there was nothing to look at, and instead it encouraged a culture where we simply dropped down on the exact point for the exact monster or pick up or quest objective that we needed to get without having to actually put any effort in at all to get there.

    As you can see from this thread, the vast majority don't agree with you. The design decision taken by Blizzard have resulted in the sub numbers going up dramatically, so the margins don't agree with you either.

    Perhaps if you were not so arrogant about your opinion, making it sound like anyone who disagrees with you - which is most people - is in some way less informed than you and/or just plain wrong, more people would have engaged with your point and discussed it openly with you. As it happens, you come across as being an angry, arrogant, "I know best" type of person.

    As you rightly pointed out, other games offer different travel systems. If the lack of flying mounts in WoW is such a game breaker for you, then I would suggest that you try to find another game instead of attempting to start an argument with the vast majority who don't agree with your point :)

  • NetSageNetSage Member UncommonPosts: 1,059
    I loved not flying until I was lvl 100.  Then I was just questing to clear content way below my lvl and not being able to fly made it much harder :P.
  • TyggsTyggs Member UncommonPosts: 456
    Originally posted by NetSage
    not being able to fly made it much harder :P.

     

    I think that is a good thing.

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  • ChromeBallzChromeBallz Member UncommonPosts: 341

    I'm seriously confused about the reasoning here...

    That's like saying a racing game would be better if you could just teleport from start to finish, so you don't have to do the boring bits in between.

    Fact is, flying itself was forced onto the game, not the other way around! The areas have been designed so that flight is a) unnecessary and b) nearly gamebreaking, as you can skip obstacles that are otherwise there for a reason.

    I don't see how cutting shortcuts that, frankly, make the game boring because you can pretty much skip everything that's worth seeing is a bad thing.

    Originally i was thrilled about flying in TBC and even more so in Cataclysm, but honestly, after having flown for a few years i realized that the game has become so boring because of it. Land, kill/gather quest objective, fly off. No actual journey involved, untill now the flying itself has become cumbersome and boring.

    As for artificially prolonging - That's a slippery slope. I honesty don't think that's the case here, the devs simply want you to see the world as it was intended to be seen, not as a sliding bitmap underneath you. Trees are meant to be looked up at, not looked down on, but that's exactly what every WoW player has been doing for years.

    Also think about how you can extend this.

    - forcing the player to move over the ground instead of the air is unecessarily prolonging gameplay, make him fly.
    - Forcing the player to travel between quest locations at all is unecessarily prolonging gameplay, make him teleport.
    - Forcing the player to have to kill 10 mobs is unecessarily prolonging gameplay, you just need to kill 1.
    - Forcing the player to kill 1 mob for a quest is unecessarily prolonging gameplay, quests should complete when you get them.

    Etc......

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  • KuinnKuinn Member UncommonPosts: 2,072
    Originally posted by anothername
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by Hoplites

    unlike other MMO's that age with time, this is the first that has made playing content at level cap more painful and reduced replay value.

    What a shame.

    .

     

    67,34% of players answered that they are enjoying the no-fly of WoD in mmochampion poll.

    (Total Votes: 220,270k)

    Fun fact. Should Blizz introduce flying those 67,34 still have the 100% ability to continue to enjoy not to fly while, and thats the magic, the 32,66 who does not like the no fly would also enjoy the then hypotetical added ability to do so. Massice 100% instead of just 67% enjoy now! Minus the few who does not enjoy that other can do something they enjoy now, but no one should care for those few rotten trolls.

    That being said I really like WoD overall, I actually do like to ride the rivendare mount (which I also have done in areas I could fly) and I will totally not cry "doom" for the lack of flying. Just saying I like flying I think the reasoning behind the drop of it is as stupid as the support of doing so since nobody forces anybody to do so.

     

    Many things are fun because they are not optional. I absolutely HATE the quick travel system in GW2, just click anywhere and you appear there, no need to travel at all once you have discovered a location. But hey I could just run everywhere because "no one is forcing me to use the quick travel", but it feels silly to run, like I'm doing something wrong because more effective and convenient method is available.

     

    So no, I don't feel like re-introducing flying would just simply make the game better for 32,66% and the rest could keep using ground mounts, because then it would feel wrong to do so, like "you are stupid because you are not flying". Now it feels right and is fun because it is the "correct" method of personal transportation.

  • MoonKnighttMoonKnightt Member UncommonPosts: 148

    Only it hasn't, I spend a lot of time in between writing my novel reading MMO forums of the games I play. Or that I am interesting in playing. World of Warcraft being one of them (You guessed it Trove is the other!).

    Yes. Every once in awhile a Vanilla, or BC player will complain. But I have found is mainly people who started in Cataclysm and later, who are shedding the most tears. In my opinion no flying is one of the best things to happen to Warcraft since Wrath of the Lich King.

    I love how the players who complain about flying. Act like it is the only and major problem of this expansion. When serious debatable issues are as follows (some of them).

    -Professions are broken and nearly useless. Since everyone has access all of them.

    - got rid of gemming (guess it was too complicated for people).

    - Gave crafting professions a cool down. So by the time you can craft gear? It's useless.

    - Capped the amount of crafted gear you can wear at three.

    - Turned fundamental aspects of Garrisons into a android and iPad game. 

    -Somehow made having alts even less friendly then Mists of Pandaria (who knew that was possible?). Making having alts a painful experience for anyone with any kind of life and even no lifers.

    - Making head scratching choices in building perks.

    - Broke the economy for most, and probably can't be fixed even if they hired the world's best economist.

    - PVP, just one second. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    - Ashran, people already have given it the name Assram

    Don't get me wrong, I love the setting, quests, raids and lore of WoD. But that is about it. Everything else in my eyes has been a wash. But please by all means complain about one of it's strengths. I find myself struggling to log in or even level a alt (guess that means more trove and 15 dollars a month savings). Before there was always a aspect of the game I could enjoy.

    But I guess I understand the complaining, Blizzard has focused on making things convenient the last four+ years at the expense of depth and the enjoyment of the game. The pro flight crowd is used to ultimate convenience and used to getting it.

  • Tasslehoff35Tasslehoff35 Member UncommonPosts: 962
    Originally posted by bcbully


    The only reasons I can see for not having it are the cost of building a fully playable world and/or the want to slow down the pace of content consumption.

    Not that we need to go over your lack of credability when commenting on WoW since everyone already knows.  But I would ask you what is the difference between NOT allowing flying at the beginning of the MoP expansion and NOT allowing flying in the beginning of WoD expansion?  

     

    So by your statement if they open up flying in WoD that means they built a "fully playable world" and/or the want to speed up the pace of content consumption?  Can you please point to ONE Mmo that the DEVS goal is to "speed up the pace of content consumption" ?   

     

    Let me ask another question?  Since flying mounts are not open right now and some how you think that means a bad thing and the world is not "fully playable" they why can I click on my little feather be shot way up into the air and fly ANYWHERE in this "not fully playable world for two min?  Wouldn't that make it a "fully playable " world?

     

     I know you don't play and were not aware of that ability and never picked up on it during your daily forum run but  I'm sorry for pointing out how wrong you are towards WoW. 

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,637

    So basically there is two camps in this discussion.... 

     

    A) the, i want to have the leveling behind me as fast as possible powergaming crew, that demands flight to get trough the content even faster, they dont mind if it makes the content less challenging as the leveling is an unwanted burden to them, they just want kewl endgame characters with even kewler mounts

    B)the casual player that loves leveling and enjoys the content as long as it lasts and feels fresh, they realise that having flying mounts woul make the actualll content and gamefeel much less fun...

     

    so what is wise to do for Blizzard?

     

    actually its simple, they need to wait till most of the B) crowd left the game again wayting for the next expansion, which makes it easy to add in flight again as a feature to sattisfy power endgame crowd with flying mounts ...  So i guess it will be the 2nd major content patch for this expansion

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  • hallucigenocidehallucigenocide Member RarePosts: 1,003

    flying has done nothing to improve the game..

    there still isn't even any content that requires you to be airborne so what's the point? other than skipping content 

    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  • FlawSGIFlawSGI Member UncommonPosts: 1,379
    I also disagree with the OP. While I love flying, I think it hurts the game more than helps it. I really wish they would implement some sort of limitation to it if and when they add it to WoD. Stamina bar or a cooldown would make the experience a little more meaningful instead of allowing us the ability to bypass danger at will. To each their own I guess, but I think the game is far more engrossing and large when I have to actually travel through it and not over it. But I also love flying....

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  • HarikenHariken Member RarePosts: 2,399
    Flying just made everything so easy. Took all the exploring right out of mmo's. I was enjoying not flying around in Mist which made me explore more. They need to bring exploring back to mmo's. But once you put flying in the game its going to be hard to take it out. Flying has been a part of Wow for years now. It reminds me of those days of Morrowind before it was released on consoles. You had to know how to use the map and the travel system in the game. Then the console kiddies got the game and the first thing they complained about was not knowing how to use the map and they wanted horses,  Rpg's/mmo's have been dumbing down ever since.
  • SuperDonkSuperDonk Member UncommonPosts: 759
    Originally posted by rodingo
    I think flying would be more interesting and wanted if they actually added flying mobs that could seriously mess you up while in the air.  Think of that big teradactyl thing in Avatar that was chasing the hero and his girl around and trying to eat them in the air.  Basically make flying in game really dangerous with the threat of being eaten by a skull con flying drake or something.  At least in specific high level zones.

    This is an awesome idea. I am against bringing flying back unless something like this is implemented.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,070

    A few points:

    - I personally think flying should never have been added to WoW in the actual form. Limited flying like the engineer gliders is fine, but permanent flying should have remained NPC controlled.

    - Disabling flying at the beginning of an expansion is and has always been an excellent idea.

    But:

    - Flying is now part of WoW. People collect flying mounts, including myself. We adapted to the fact that flying exists. It took me ages to get some of my flying mounts.

    Therefore:

    It's soon going to be time to end the "no fly" time and add back what players are use to and also worked hard for in the past. We have now all explored the whole landmass of Draenor.

     

    And I've always been fan of giving the player choices. Even though we can fly everywhere else, I've done things like revisit the whole old continents (from Plaguelands down to Booty Bay, and then from Tanaris back to Everlook) only using ground mounts and boats. Those who are struck by nostalgia can still do that, while those who want to fly can fly.

     

    So yeah, I hope Blizzard keeps the promise of enabling flying in the first major patch. It's part of this game. There are tons of other games without flying at all, people can play those, or just not fly in WoW, it works.

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  • KanethKaneth Member RarePosts: 2,283
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    A few points:

    - I personally think flying should never have been added to WoW in the actual form. Limited flying like the engineer gliders is fine, but permanent flying should have remained NPC controlled.

    - Disabling flying at the beginning of an expansion is and has always been an excellent idea.

    But:

    - Flying is now part of WoW. People collect flying mounts, including myself. We adapted to the fact that flying exists. It took me ages to get some of my flying mounts.

    Therefore:

    It's soon going to be time to end the "no fly" time and add back what players are use to and also worked hard for in the past. We have now all explored the whole landmass of Draenor.

     

    And I've always been fan of giving the player choices. Even though we can fly everywhere else, I've done things like revisit the whole old continents (from Plaguelands down to Booty Bay, and then from Tanaris back to Everlook) only using ground mounts and boats. Those who are struck by nostalgia can still do that, while those who want to fly can fly.

     

    So yeah, I hope Blizzard keeps the promise of enabling flying in the first major patch. It's part of this game. There are tons of other games without flying at all, people can play those, or just not fly in WoW, it works.

    Players still have access to those mounts that they worked hard for. They can still go and fly in areas that allow flight, and they can use most of those mounts on the ground now as well. The level of exploration of a landmass doesn't mean that flying should be allowed.

    It was confirmed during the December 4th reddit developer Q&A that flight will be disallowed in 6.1,

    What's the deal currently with your stance on flying, any new developments, or insights?
    Overall, we’re happy with how ground travel in Draenor has played out thus far, and we’ve heard a lot of feedback to that effect as well, though we of course recognize that there are players who feel differently. We’ll have more to announce about our 6.1 patch plans in the very near future, but as the focus of our endgame outdoor content remains in the main Draenor zones, our reasons for disallowing flight in 6.0 continue to apply in 6.1. Whether you’re navigating your way to Orumo the Observer in Shattrath Rise, trying to reach a treasure cache atop a column in Spires, or working your way around the ledges encircling The Pit, you’re engaging in gameplay that simply would not exist in a world with unfettered flight. It was never our intent to make large-scale navigation of the world inconvenient, and in 6.1 we’re going to be improving our flight path system to always take the most direct route between two points, even if you have not discovered some of the intermediate nodes. Please keep the feedback coming – if you’re unhappy with the design, some of the most helpful feedback would be specific examples of situations or systems that feel frustrating without being able to fly in Draenor.

    Blizzard is taking a pretty hard stance on their design choices for WoD so far, and I applaud them for it. On PvP servers the lack of flight has been a major improvement on gameplay. I hope they keep flight extremely limited even when they do add it. The next expansion could be a total flight expansion, like Cataclysm, or maybe Blizzard will do something completely different (maybe South Seas seafaring expansion, who knows). 

  • kryzbynkryzbyn Member Posts: 12
    I don't mind that we can't fly, but it sure makes the gold cost to get flight sting a little more...
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,070
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by Hoplites

    unlike other MMO's that age with time, this is the first that has made playing content at level cap more painful and reduced replay value.

    What a shame.

    .

     

    67,34% of players answered that they are enjoying the no-fly of WoD in mmochampion poll.

    (Total Votes: 220,270k)

    People on mmochampion or here don't represent the majority of players at all.

    Most people I know playing WoW don't ever read those sites, and even less participate in polls there, when they use the web, it's wowhead and icyveins for class info.

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  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    I would imagine most users of mmochampion are wow players since that's it's primary focus, this site is a different kettle of fish.

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