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No healing in the trinity - this is working in this game.

BattlerockBattlerock Member CommonPosts: 1,393
I had trouble at first liking this, but it grew on me and now I like it. I like not having an over powered healer be able to put the game on easy mode. Not that DA is overly difficult or you don't get to revive, but the feedback of winning the fights with no downs or no potions used, achieving perfection on a small scale, battle to battle, it's been rewarding. I get to add personal challenges and define an assessment of the outcome fight to fight, even though the mob ai might be the same, the terrain is changing, this game is offering the randomness I seek and usually have to go to pvp to find. I think sometimes over powered healing in many other games I play remove the opportunity for me to see the randomness I am seeing in DA.

Comments

  • d_20d_20 Member RarePosts: 1,740

    Yeah, I thought I was going to get some healing from that bald elf dude and got my a$$ handed to me in the first boss fight in the temple. I still need to figure out the controls, too. I approached it as an mmorpg, which DAI is definitely not. I'm going to start again and pay more attention to the tutorial, maybe.

     

    It will be challenging, but like I said, I need to get familiar with the controls and I'm not used to pausing the action, etc. Ihaven't done this kind of thing since Balder's Gate.  I need to understand and get used the mechanics. Looks like a cool game and a new challenge trying to figure out what your party should do.


  • DeniZgDeniZg Member UncommonPosts: 697

    DA is really great.  Combat and controls feel a bit awkward for the first couple of hours, but once you get used to it, it's grows on you.

    Also, some systems are a bit too innovative (opening quests via War room), but at least it gives me that "I'm such a noob" feeling I haven't felt for quite a while.

  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,292
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    I had trouble at first liking this, but it grew on me and now I like it. I like not having an over powered healer be able to put the game on easy mode. Not that DA is overly difficult or you don't get to revive, but the feedback of winning the fights with no downs or no potions used, achieving perfection on a small scale, battle to battle, it's been rewarding. I get to add personal challenges and define an assessment of the outcome fight to fight, even though the mob ai might be the same, the terrain is changing, this game is offering the randomness I seek and usually have to go to pvp to find. I think sometimes over powered healing in many other games I play remove the opportunity for me to see the randomness I am seeing in DA.

    That's a great point Battle (although I actually chug quite a few potions). Its more like tank, control, and dps which is really nice, The guard and barrier abilities help get around the healer I think -especially guard since you can replenish it almost like a form of self healing.

    ....
  • sumdumguy1sumdumguy1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,196
    I never really thought about this but since it was mentioned I agree.  I have been playing this game slowly exploring everything and trying to finish the achievements.   One thing I have learned is team synergy is very important in this game.  Have a group that works well together is very important and being able to choose all their skills on my own allows me to create the synergy I want.  Not having to spec a healer specifically allows me to create different types of team for certain situations which has been a huge advantage to me.
  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 2,906
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    I had trouble at first liking this, but it grew on me and now I like it. I like not having an over powered healer be able to put the game on easy mode. Not that DA is overly difficult or you don't get to revive, but the feedback of winning the fights with no downs or no potions used, achieving perfection on a small scale, battle to battle, it's been rewarding. I get to add personal challenges and define an assessment of the outcome fight to fight, even though the mob ai might be the same, the terrain is changing, this game is offering the randomness I seek and usually have to go to pvp to find. I think sometimes over powered healing in many other games I play remove the opportunity for me to see the randomness I am seeing in DA.

    Then this is not the Trinity. The trinity uses healer, agro-vacuum, DPS - that is the definition of the Trinity. No healer means no trinity.

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  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,569
    I'm disappointed in DA:I.  The lack of healers only reveals the simplification of the series as Bioware continues its endless pandering to the console market.  More action, less strategy, less complexity and less diversity equals substandard RPG in my book.

    image
  • BattlerockBattlerock Member CommonPosts: 1,393
    See I would argue that there is more strategy involved because there is no healer to come in and make up for the lack of thought put into the fight by the damage, tanks and cc.

    //

    Trinity - yes traditionally has a healer, but couldn't one call dps, tank, and control a trinity as well?
  • fs23otmfs23otm Member UncommonPosts: 490
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    I'm disappointed in DA:I.  The lack of healers only reveals the simplification of the series as Bioware continues its endless pandering to the console market.  More action, less strategy, less complexity and less diversity equals substandard RPG in my book.

    Dedicated healing makes game simpler.... GW2 had healing with no agro mechanic.

    I think a better trinity is Tanking, Control, DPS... 

    Having a tank draw agro when needed and mitigate damage....

    Having control lock down mobs when needed and dps or buff when not...

    And dps to damage and buff.. 

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Member UncommonPosts: 1,388
    People still suckling on the healing nipple? I had hoped that people would've learned how to stand on their own by now.
  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,458
    Originally posted by fs23otm
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    I'm disappointed in DA:I.  The lack of healers only reveals the simplification of the series as Bioware continues its endless pandering to the console market.  More action, less strategy, less complexity and less diversity equals substandard RPG in my book.

    Dedicated healing makes game simpler.... GW2 had healing with no agro mechanic.

    I think a better trinity is Tanking, Control, DPS... 

    Having a tank draw agro when needed and mitigate damage....

    Having control lock down mobs when needed and dps or buff when not...

    And dps to damage and buff.. 

    CC is an easier mechanic to get used to than healing. I'd rather heal than CC. If anything I'd like to bring back buffers/debuffers as a separate class than a CC class.

    image
  • fivorothfivoroth Member UncommonPosts: 3,916
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    See I would argue that there is more strategy involved because there is no healer to come in and make up for the lack of thought put into the fight by the damage, tanks and cc. // Trinity - yes traditionally has a healer, but couldn't one call dps, tank, and control a trinity as well?

    WHy is there a tank in the trinity? Why is there CC? To make it easier? You say healing makes things easy but I can say the same thing for CC and tanking. Why would a monster attack the toughest member of a group. It makes 0 sense. CC doesn't require too much skill to pull off either.

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  • BattlerockBattlerock Member CommonPosts: 1,393
    Originally posted by immodium

    Originally posted by fs23otm
    Originlikeally posted by Vorthanion
    I'm disappointed in DA:I.  The lack of healers only reveals the simplification of the series as Bioware continues its endless pandering to the console market.  More action, less strategy, less complexity and less diversity equals substandard RPG in my book.

    Dedicated healing makes game simpler.... Gcoulpersonalad healing with no agro mechanic.

    I think a better trinitydebuts king, Control, DPS... 

    Having a tank draw agro when needed and mitigate damage....

    Having control lock down mobs when needed and dps or buff when not...

    And dps to damage and buff.. 

    CC is an easier mechanic to get used to than healing. I'd rather heal than CC. If anything I'd like to bring back buffers/debuffers as a separate class than a CC class.

     

    hmmm, I have healed and it does make you feel heroic, cc on the other hand keeps your eyes on the action rather than health bars, I feel like on the surface a buffing class would not be as fun as a control class, especially considering control timing is based mostly on what is happening at that instant, vs a pure buff class. DA does make use of buffs as well, it's obvious when the time is best to use them though and ultimately it's not something you see in the action like you do when someone is cced. Having an impact on the action is more rewarding in my opinion,I feel like buffs and debuffs happen and most of the time people don't realize it. People do realize healing, but again a strong healer can make a good fight a boring faceroll, not all the time, but a lot of the time a strong healer makes up for a lack of perfection.
    .
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 29,709
    Originally posted by moosecatlol
    People still suckling on the healing nipple? I had hoped that people would've learned how to stand on their own by now.

    Never played a dedicated healer before?  While they might make it easier for the rest of the team, healing can be some of the most challenging game play in an MMORPG if designed correctly.  Most can't /won't do it, hence it's removal from most titles, just to hard too find people willing to take it on.

    But as the OP pointed out, and GW2 proved, you don't need healing, heck, you don't need any specific mechanic in any game, just a matter of how the developers want to design the success strategies of any encounter.  Could just be all DPS if they wanted to.

     

     

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  • Sector13Sector13 Member UncommonPosts: 781
    DA:! a better game with no healer? not really. People just play a Knight Enchanter, game broken. 
  • WizardryWizardry Member EpicPosts: 14,361
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    I had trouble at first liking this, but it grew on me and now I like it. I like not having an over powered healer be able to put the game on easy mode. Not that DA is overly difficult or you don't get to revive, but the feedback of winning the fights with no downs or no potions used, achieving perfection on a small scale, battle to battle, it's been rewarding. I get to add personal challenges and define an assessment of the outcome fight to fight, even though the mob ai might be the same, the terrain is changing, this game is offering the randomness I seek and usually have to go to pvp to find. I think sometimes over powered healing in many other games I play remove the opportunity for me to see the randomness I am seeing in DA.

    It is a dumb idea and there is no reason at all to remove healing unless the game IS easy mode.

    First of all relying on a team mate to heal is a GOOD part of any ONLINE game,that si the purpose of playing online to interact with others.

    In the best combat design ever "FFXI" you could not take more than  2-3 hits without a healer ,unless of course you had shadows but that was a Ninja skill that took some effort to get in the vanilla run of the game.If you can take several hits in a game and not need healing then that IS easy mode.Then we USUALLY see almost instant regen on health and /or mana AGAIN EASY mode.

    It makes perfect sense that IF your battle was real tough you SHOULD need some down time to recover,all this instant healing regen junk is garbage.

    I might add that in that games design of no healing you really cut the combat short,your window of variance is VERY low,so the battles will be designed with limited options for outcome.If you have a Trinity healing design alongside really tough combat,you need to play SMART,your resources become extremely valuable.I can't tell you how many groups in EARLY stage of FFXI struggled because it was that tough ,no heals was pretty much impossible unless you had a full team of nukers that were also very good at their class,spread out and knew how to share hate.

    I have seen every single game designed to SOLO ,why even bother to add internet really baffles me at the shallow game designs now days.

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  • BattlerockBattlerock Member CommonPosts: 1,393
    This isn't meant to be a hate on healers thread - I just think DA -
    Did a good job of making the game fun, yet keeping trinity, it's a trinity that keeps your attention on the action, it's read and react, it's engaging, and it does it well without a healer.
  • WizardryWizardry Member EpicPosts: 14,361
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    See I would argue that there is more strategy involved because there is no healer to come in and make up for the lack of thought put into the fight by the damage, tanks and cc. // Trinity - yes traditionally has a healer, but couldn't one call dps, tank, and control a trinity as well?

    Well of course you still have to think but the variance on thought is limited because one major factor is removed and that is the ability to take damage and die within a couple hits.That is why Healing has been a staple part of gaming for many years,it allows the combat design to be far more advanced AND dangerous.

    What no healing type combat involves is like stuns/roots knock-backs so in other words avoiding melee,that does not make it any harder,it makes it less tough since your main worry is to not get hit.Sometimes and idea like drain works but again IF the battle is tough,it will not save you,example Drain bolts or the EQ Shadowknight class,it still needs healing.

    To me the ultimate value on superb combat design is one which NEEDS group killing however is not impossible to solo if you are extremely skilled at your class.The difference being of course efficiency,grouping would not be lost because it would be far more efficient but soloing would be there for those that like the odd super challenge once in awhile.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WightyWighty Member UncommonPosts: 699
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    I'm disappointed in DA:I.  The lack of healers only reveals the simplification of the series as Bioware continues its endless pandering to the console market.  More action, less strategy, less complexity and less diversity equals substandard RPG in my book.

    I do have to agree here as well... I completed a play through of this game and I miss setting up my party the way I did in DA:O. While DA:I was certainly a huge upgrade from DA2, it still fails in comparison to the original.

    These companies cut their teeth and became hugely successful by way of the PC market and now (at least based on the controls) PC seems to be an afterthought.

    Here's hoping Pillars of Eternity and Serpent in the Staglands fills that void.

     

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  • BattlerockBattlerock Member CommonPosts: 1,393
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    Originally posted by Battlerock
    See I would argue that there is more strategy involved because there is no healer to come in and make up for the lack of thought put into the fight by the damage, tanks and cc. // Trinity - yes traditionally has a healer, but couldn't one call dps, tank, and control a trinity as well?

    Well of course you still have to think but the variance on thought is limited because one major factor is removed and that is the ability to take damage and die within a couple hits.That is why Healing has been a staple part of gaming for many years,it allows the combat design to be far more advanced AND dangerous.

    What no healing type combat involves is like stuns/roots knock-backs so in other words avoiding melee,that does not make it any harder,it makes it less tough since your main worry is to not get hit.Sometimes and idea like drain works but again IF the battle is tough,it will not save you,example Drain bolts or the EQ Shadowknight class,it still needs healing.

    To me the ultimate value on superb combat design is one which NEEDS group killing however is not impossible to solo if you are extremely skilled at your class.The difference being of course efficiency,grouping would not be lost because it would be far more efficient but soloing would be there for those that like the odd super challenge once in awhile.

     

    Healing can make a boring fight last ten times linger than it should. Most of the time there is no critical moment in a fight that involves a healer. I critical moment being one that if your on your toes, line up the circumstances, execute that critical blow , the fights over. Not going to happen when healers are present , games like that would create even more boring moments in time for a healer. Replace the healer with a control class - contribute to that critical moment actively rather than passively like a healer does.
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