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AMD VS Intel, CPU, GPU & MB suggestions

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  • Ket_VilianoKet_Viliano Member UncommonPosts: 271
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Ket_Viliano

    @Nighthaven, what games are these that only run on one core? The last game I had that was bound by a single threaded process was Darkfall, the original game. DFUW ran fine on all four cores, last time I played.

     

    I know this because I always leave Resource Monitor open, on a second screen, just to watch performance.

    I would agree that the problem games, or programs, are the ones that are bound by a single thread, and that no amount of spare CPU cores will fix it; only better programming, which the customer cannot control, or a higher GHz can help. i7 4790k has the GHz, which is why I like it.

    As for the future, UE4 runs on 4+ cores, I think they said they could support up to 8 or 10, and will work to make it run on more.


     

    Please do not put words that no one said into others mouth. The poster has never mentioned single cores.

    The point you are largely missing is: If the game can "support" +4 cores/threads, does it also mean better performance?

    The answer is simple: No.

     

    Multithreading has very severe diminishing returns and more cores simply won't bring more performance, especially when it comes to gaming.

    Nighthaven made the claim that games do not run on more than two cores, I refuted him, quite solidly. Know of what you speak, before you post.

     

    Games that can run on multiple cores normally push the edge of performance, with more polygons, more use of the physics engine, and much larger textures. Hence, FPS performance will not likely go up, but graphic fidelity does.

     

    Given the same polys, textures, and physics, multithreaded games have higher FPS when run on mulitcore processors, this can be observed. Try it, you might like it.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,072
    Originally posted by 13lake

    My Chrome browser is using 3GB now

    That's because you've got 50 tabs open.  Try closing some of them.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,072
    Originally posted by Ket_Viliano

    Games that can run on multiple cores normally push the edge of performance, with more polygons, more use of the physics engine, and much larger textures. Hence, FPS performance will not likely go up, but graphic fidelity does.

    Texture resolution and vertex count have nothing to do with more cores.  That's a little more data to read off of a hard drive and pass to the video card once in a while, not something that scales well to more CPU cores.  If you really want to do higher vertex counts the right way, tessellation means that the CPU doesn't even know how many vertices there are in the model in a given frame.

  • Ket_VilianoKet_Viliano Member UncommonPosts: 271
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Ket_Viliano

    Games that can run on multiple cores normally push the edge of performance, with more polygons, more use of the physics engine, and much larger textures. Hence, FPS performance will not likely go up, but graphic fidelity does.

    Texture resolution and vertex count have nothing to do with more cores.  That's a little more data to read off of a hard drive and pass to the video card once in a while, not something that scales well to more CPU cores.  If you really want to do higher vertex counts the right way, tessellation means that the CPU doesn't even know how many vertices there are in the model in a given frame.

    Gotta disagree with you on a technicality, texture res ( mostly a memory issue ) and vertex count scale so well with more cores, that it gets passed off to the GPU, which has thousands of cores to do the work. But, I figure that is what you really meant.

     

    My point was that most games run on more than 2 CPU cores, and this has been the case for some time now, ever since C++11 included a thread safe SMP library. In any case, all UE4 games run on 4+ cores, this is now standard.

  • NightHaveNNightHaveN Member UncommonPosts: 1,051
    Originally posted by Ridelynn

     

    There are some, but not a lot, which was the point he was trying to make. I can only think of 3 or 4 off the top of my head. Is it enough to recommend a quad core over a dual core? Absolutely, and I think it's clear the trend is towards actually utilizing 3-4 cores. And even on games that don't scale well past 2 cores, having 2+n cores allows you to play the game well and do something in the background (I almost always have a web browser + some other programs open when I play on my PC) without impacting your game.

     

    That's why I said a 4+ core chip would be an improvement on the overall system performance (responsiveness) in the OS.  Unlike games which usually are a a single bloated binary, an OS is made of hundreds of small binaries, libraries, etc.  The more cores you have, the more stuff you can do simultaneously.

    But on games, it depends on how good the programmer is at splitting threads inside that single binary.  Is not the same.

    And that's is why more raw processing power (GHz and math instructions processed on those GHz) is more important than a 16 core chip just to give an example.

    And since everyone knows AMD have been slower at math processing than Intel chips, and math is what 3D games used nearly 100% of the time, then you can do the math on the conclusion.

    Btw, I haven't been an Intel user the whole time, even my video card is ATI, because was the faster model at the price range I could afford  when I got it.  But right now while AMD do nice multi core CPUs, they are not that good for games.  I only hope is that their next architecture that will come out either in 2015 or 2016 put Intel to dust like the old Athlon did some years ago.

    And speaking of the games... can you give a name or two?

     

  • HulluckHulluck Member UncommonPosts: 830

    I would like to know how one manages so many tabs in a  browser. I get 10 or so open when shopping and that becomes a headache.  

     

    Did the op buy a pc yet or still deciding?

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,723


    Originally posted by 13lakeI'm writing from the standpoint of the person asking help and using my way of usage as a starting point for comparison, as i regularly have ~30-40 tabs open in chrome. 

    Yeah, and you alt-tab during your gaming to chrome constantly or even you play in windowed mode so it needs to be loaded into a memory...

    Making suggestions based on extreme, non-standard cases and passing them as norm is not helpful.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,723


    Originally posted by Ket_Viliano

    Nighthaven made the claim that games do not run on more than two cores, I refuted him, quite solidly.

    You do not refute a statement that games do not really use more than 2 cores with an argument about single cores.

    Not going to address the rest of your post as part was address by Quizzical and the rest is not even worthy as it lacks any sense.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,723


    Originally posted by HulluckI would like to know how one manages so many tabs in a  browser. I get 10 or so open when shopping and that becomes a headache.  

    Please do not go that route, pointing out apparent flaws, ignorance or just being doubtful makes you so argumentative...

    Some posters here are apparently always right, regardless.

  • Cramit845Cramit845 Member UncommonPosts: 395
    Originally posted by Hulluck

    I would like to know how one manages so many tabs in a  browser. I get 10 or so open when shopping and that becomes a headache.  

     

    Did the op buy a pc yet or still deciding?

         As of right this moment I have not made a purchase but plan to either tonight or tomorrow.  Waited for sales to go back on now that it's new years and seems I can get everything with descent shipping. So purchase is imminent.

  • razor19112krazor19112k Member UncommonPosts: 22

    I upgraded my beast awhile ago too an i7

    Asus X99 Deluxe

    Intel Core i7-5960x

    32 GB DDR4

    Samsung 850 PRO SSD 256 GB

    2x Samsung 840 EVO 1TB SSD'S

    Gigabyte GeForce GTX 980 G1 4GB GDDR5

    Cooler Master Storm Trooper Full Tower

    Corsair Professional Series AX760 PSU

     

     

  • miguksarammiguksaram Member UncommonPosts: 834

    I'm currently playing the Black Desert beta (Korean) and pull between 35-45 FPS with close to max graphic options with the following specs.

    My current system specs:

    CPU: Intel i7-4770k

    CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-L12

    MB: ASRock Z87E-ITX

    GPU: EVGA GTX 770

    RAM: Crucial Ballistix Sport VLP 8Gb (2x4Gb sticks)

    SSD: Crucial M500 240Gb

    PSU: Silverstone ST45SF-G

    OS: Windows 8.1

  • Cramit845Cramit845 Member UncommonPosts: 395
       Wonderful builds guys, but not going the i7 route cause of price, thanks for letting us know though...
  • MikePaladinMikePaladin Member UncommonPosts: 592

    My build is

    hm  right now I checked   I sugest you take this

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INTEL-Core-i5-4690K-3-5Ghz-ASUS-H81M-PLUS-Motherboard-CPU-Bundle-/121388049019?pt=UK_Motherboards_CPUs&hash=item1c434aa27b

    Coolbay VX Zero

    Gtx 970 gigamyte G1  great card Runs cold like ice even in latest games on Ultra  great performance  veary cheap

    PSU   CX 600  Bronze   great psu with great reputation

    Ram  get 8gb 1600 MHz from corsair   from other after a year they might run at 1333 Mhz like in my case ...

    Hdd 1 Terabyte

     

    For USA it should be around 1k $ or even lower  if you find a good store

     

    Also avoid gtx 760 had one was terrible  and temperature crazy high  and worst  coild whine I ever had   like 5 times higher than on my new one

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,723


    Originally posted by MikePaladin

    My build ishm  right now I checked   I sugest you take thishttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INTEL-Core-i5-4690K-3-5Ghz-ASUS-H81M-PLUS-Motherboard-CPU-Bundle-/121388049019?pt=UK_Motherboards_CPUs&hash=item1c434aa27b

    Problem is that there is a K processor but MB in the bundle is H81 chipset that does not allow overlocking so you sort of waste a potential of that CPU.

    Still good bundle for the price tho.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 6,833


    Originally posted by NightHaveN
    That's why I said a 4+ core chip would be an improvement on the overall system performance (responsiveness) in the OS.  Unlike games which usually are a a single bloated binary, an OS is made of hundreds of small binaries, libraries, etc.  The more cores you have, the more stuff you can do simultaneously....And speaking of the games... can you give a name or two? 

    Since we are on an MMO board, this report is semi-famous talking about GW2 and multicore performance:
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/guild-wars-2-performance-benchmark,3268-7.html

    One note of caution, they are pitting various core-counted CPUs together, and while they try to normalize it (they clock all of them at 3Ghz), they don't account for differences in architecture. If they had taken a 6 or 8 core CPU and selectively disabled cores, they would have accomplished that. So you can really only pit the liked-architecture CPUs against each other and draw many conclusions, but they do have enough data to be able to do that - it's just a shame that they aren't the ones drawing the right conclusions (one more reason I don't entirely trust Tom's).

    With that in mind, I did a followup post to that here once upon a time with my i7 920 doing exactly that, selectively disabling cores (with and without HT) and benchmarking the game, all the way down to a single core.
    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/thread/365208/GW2-hardware-considerations.html

    So there is one game, and an MMO at that, in pretty good detail.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 6,833

    I recently got my bonus at work, so I have just recently built a new one. I have 3 gaming rigs in my house right now (my new one, my wife's, and my old one that may get handed off to my son at some point)

    Oldest build:
    Intel i7 920 (2.66 stock, can OC to 4.2 for short periods of time, 3.7 stable)
    Sapphire 6970
    Asus P6T motherboard
    12G 1333 DDR3 RAM
    2x120G Crucial SSDs
    Corsair 750W PSU (can't remember which model)
    (used to have a Toshiba 3T storage drive, but I recycled that into my new build)
    Custom water cooling circuit (was my hobby)
    Full-tower Lian-Li case
    Built in 2008 when I was still single and had money and time to tinker with it - had SLI 260's at the time - which was a mistake but I wanted to play with it. Upgraded video in 2010 to drop SLI. Still runs nearly everything on high. I don't recall how much this build cost initially - but after upgrading the video in 2010 I haven't really touched it apart from adding an SSD.

    Wife's build:
    Intel i5 3570k
    EVGA 660
    Asus P8Z77M Micro ATX
    Seasonic 520W Bronze PSU
    16G 1600 DDR3 RAM
    120G Samsung SSD
    2x 1.5T WD storage drives
    Coolermaster Hyper 212
    Lian Li Micro ATX case
    Wife does more pictures and printing than gaming, but occasionally plays games, mostly SWTOR or more casual titles. This build came in around $1000 2-2.5 years ago.

    My new build (this was actually the second build I did like this, the first was for a friend, and I got a nice bonus this year):
    Core i7 4790k
    Asus Strix 980
    Asus Maximus Gene Z97 Micro ATX
    Corsair A750i PSU
    32G 1333 DDR3 RAM
    500G Crucial SSD
    3T Toshiba bulk drive (recycled from my first build)
    Corsair H100i cooler
    Corsair Carbide Micro ATX case
    The RAM was overkill, but I wanted to play with RAM drives again. The video, also overkill, but I'm hoping to go up to past 1920x1200 sometime. After having a full tower case with a beefy pump humming in my hear for years, I wanted something powerful, small, and quiet (hence the Strix). I had to mod both the video card and case to make it fit in the micro atx case. This build came in just north of $2k, but I admittedly splurged on a lot of it.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,723


    Originally posted by Ridelynn

    So there is one game, and an MMO at that, in pretty good detail.

    You mean a case where 2 Core Pentium beats crap out of 8 core FX?


    By disabling selective cores you are just creating artificial scenario that does not exist in real - pointless test.

  • Cramit845Cramit845 Member UncommonPosts: 395

       Well I didnt buy last night thinking some things may be cheaper today.  Unfortunately most of the combo deals I had and some sales completely ended and now aren't available.  So right now the biggest price issue is with the video card I had selected.  Now I had this card selected:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150701  - $329.99

       Now it is about $40 more expensive.  I'm looking at this card:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150697  - $269.99

     

       From what I can tell, the difference between the two is 40mhz.  Is that amount of core clock speed worth the $60 price increase?  I know for games this is the most important piece so if I have to just suck it up and purchase something a bit more expensive than what I expected, I guess so be it.  However if I can find a way to save money short of longer shipping time than I will at this point since I seemed to screw myself over.  

    Thoughts or other GPU suggestions?

    I want to get this purchased and on its way by end of day today..

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 6,833

    I don't think factory overclocks are ever worth paying extra for.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,072
    Originally posted by Cramit845

       Well I didnt buy last night thinking some things may be cheaper today.  Unfortunately most of the combo deals I had and some sales completely ended and now aren't available.  So right now the biggest price issue is with the video card I had selected.  Now I had this card selected:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150701  - $329.99

       Now it is about $40 more expensive.  I'm looking at this card:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150697  - $269.99

     

       From what I can tell, the difference between the two is 40mhz.  Is that amount of core clock speed worth the $60 price increase?  I know for games this is the most important piece so if I have to just suck it up and purchase something a bit more expensive than what I expected, I guess so be it.  However if I can find a way to save money short of longer shipping time than I will at this point since I seemed to screw myself over.  

    Thoughts or other GPU suggestions?

    I want to get this purchased and on its way by end of day today..

    Yeah, the clock speed is pretty much the difference.  XFX may (or may not) do some binning of their own, testing chips to see which ones can clock higher.  If so, it's not guaranteed that the cheaper card can overclock to the same speed as the more expensive one.

    But is it worth paying 20% more to get a card clocked 4% higher?  No, or at least not for gaming purposes.  I could understand paying a few dollars more for a factory overclock.  But only a few.  $60 is not a few.

  • Cramit845Cramit845 Member UncommonPosts: 395
    Well I made the purchase about 2 hours ago or so.  I ended up with going for a bit cheaper motherboard to offset the cost.   At this point just glad its finally purchased and on its way.  Thank you everyone who posted, it was great getting all the advice.
  • Cramit845Cramit845 Member UncommonPosts: 395

       Just wanted to give 1 last update.  Received the parts, put them together and other than not having a DVI-D single cable everything worked great.  Installed OS and some games last night and the PC is running like a champ. (knock on wood)  Again thanks to everyone who gave suggestions and maybe will post some pictures.  Just wanted to let you guys know it is all going well and so far I LOVE the new pc.

     

    (Not to mention logged into EQ:Landmark last night and it is running on high settings without even flinching, WOOT!)

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