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No true pet class in EQN?

RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852

     I can't believe I didn't catch on to this earlier when I was going through my list of role playing features that HAVE to be removed for the sake of action aimed combat..  There can NOT be a true pet class like Warcraft's Hunter & Warlock, or EQ's Necro, Shaman and Mage... When I d/l Tera and started playing it, I was looking for a nice pet class.. OOPS, there isn't one, and for good reason I guess..  It goes against the aimed targeting concept.. You can't have meaningful pets like the Hunter's bear, or the Mage's elemental going around hitting every target they attack without missing..   In addition, how do you control a pet now that you removed the target window? 

     YEP.. over 40 classes hyped and NOT one pet class will be reveled is my guess..  Removing pet classes worth the trade off?  I think not..  Has anyone heard or read anything about pet classes in EQN, I haven't.. 

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Comments

  • reb007reb007 Member UncommonPosts: 613

    The Mystic in Tera is a pet class.  They summon different types of pets called "Thralls."

     

    It is possible to have pet classes in action combat games, it's just done a little different.

     

    I have not heard anything on pet classes for EQN.

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
    Originally posted by gigat

    The Mystic in Tera is a pet class.  They summon different types of pets called "Thralls."

     It is possible to have pet classes in action combat games, it's just done a little different.

     I have not heard anything on pet classes for EQN.

    I wouldn't call Thralls pets.. Surely not meaningful pets..  They are temporary assist minions, that can be one shotted easily and never last the duration of their summon.. 

  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,402

    Unless they changed their original designs as presented last year in a Pc Gamer interview:

    The Necromancer in EQNext will have a permanent companion (that they call a monstrosity) and the Beastlord is supposed to have furry friends.

     

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
    Originally posted by azarhal

    Unless they changed their original designs as presented last year in a Pc Gamer interview:

    The Necromancer in EQNext will have a permanent companion (that they call a monstrosity) and the Beastlord is supposed to have furry friends.

     

         Oh.. I'm sure they'll toss in some nibbles, but I doubt those pets will have an real PUNCH..  They'll probably be more like Thralls, or like the Enchanters pet that acted more as a sacrificial distraction then a pet..  I actually liked my EQ1's Beastlord w/ pet.. We could do some good melee dps, and pet could hold his own if needed..

  • alyndalealyndale Member UncommonPosts: 936

    Hmmmm,

    If there might not be a pet class due to the "fighting style" in EQN, then I wonder if they might allow a mercenary system similar to what they have developed in EQ 2?

    Might be interesting? Possibly something as you see in Star Wars: ToR?

    Alyn

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  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,727
    Originally posted by Rydeson

         I can't believe I didn't catch on to this earlier when I was going through my list of role playing features that HAVE to be removed for the sake of action aimed combat..  There can NOT be a true pet class like Warcraft's Hunter & Warlock, or EQ's Necro, Shaman and Mage... When I d/l Tera and started playing it, I was looking for a nice pet class.. OOPS, there isn't one, and for good reason I guess..  It goes against the aimed targeting concept.. You can't have meaningful pets like the Hunter's bear, or the Mage's elemental going around hitting every target they attack without missing..   In addition, how do you control a pet now that you removed the target window? 

         YEP.. over 40 classes hyped and NOT one pet class will be reveled is my guess..  Removing pet classes worth the trade off?  I think not..  Has anyone heard or read anything about pet classes in EQN, I haven't.. 

    Show me something official that says there will be no pet class or this tread is just another one of your lets bash EQN. Why do you keep digging deeper into a game you have so much hate for? This is not the first MMO you have done this on this forum, you seem to pick a new MMO to bash every 6 months.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,727
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by azarhal

    Unless they changed their original designs as presented last year in a Pc Gamer interview:

    The Necromancer in EQNext will have a permanent companion (that they call a monstrosity) and the Beastlord is supposed to have furry friends.

     

         Oh.. I'm sure they'll toss in some nibbles, but I doubt those pets will have an real PUNCH..  They'll probably be more like Thralls, or like the Enchanters pet that acted more as a sacrificial distraction then a pet..  I actually liked my EQ1's Beastlord w/ pet.. We could do some good melee dps, and pet could hold his own if needed..

    We have been given a number, 40 classes and they have named a few of them, thats it. This thread is just hot air and no substance. 

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    I imagine they will just do like most games and give you a debuff when pets are deployed.
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967

    If "meaningful" pet/summons can be done in fighting games they can be done in action combat based mmorgps. The idea that it can't be "just because" is ignorant.

     

    It all comes down to developer experience/knowledge.

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  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,139

    EQ had 3 pet classes, wouldn't really consider a Shaman a pet class myself. So far 2 have been confirmed (Necro/Beastlord) and the 3rd (Magician) has been alluded to by using it as an example of how pets could function in EQN. With so many classes unannounced, I'd take a tiny guess that we'll probably see a few more then 3 pet classes in EQN.

    How will they function? We don't know fully, but they will exist. While I don't care to watch the panel again at this moment, they did confirm them at SOE Live. I believe the second half with the Q&A is when they gave some detail.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOKhfxwLokg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVqv78MfJus

    EQNexus's summary of the panel includes:

    • Many variations of pets: permanent and single fight.
    • Player pets will also use the emergent AI system
     
    While I don't have the source handy, they did mention pets like that of a Magician from EQ in a random interview. Which could be how they are controlled, function, both, or neither. No clue yet.
     
    Will EQN's pets be 100% like the EQ version? Probably not and considering it is an entirely new game, new tech, and overall design, I wouldn't expect them to.
     
    Does this mean that there will be no "Pet" classes or that we won't have any control over their behavior? Nope. Simple pet bar doesn't seem like an impossible option.
     
    It's safe to assume that whatever AI they have for combat will function for pets at least like that of mobs and they will be able to attack and assist their masters.
     
    I actually think removing "target" is good and allows for pet classes to function differently.
     
    As pointed out by OP, typically they function as 1.5+ players which in turn usually means a pet class can solo content designed for multiple players which leads to problems.
     
    If pets are designed more as a constant buff/supplemental dmg or whatever, less balance issues might come up. Which might not be good for those that want to solo content not designed for one player, but as a supported of social gaming, sorry.
     
    Really hoping they take advantage of other games that have fairly unique classes. DAoC for example had 10+ classes that utilized "pets" in some form. Many different ways to go about it beyond "tank, dps, support" pet design that other games do. Fire and forget, turrets, short/long term summons, charmed mobs, typical tank/dps/support variations, etc.
  • FangrimFangrim Member UncommonPosts: 616

    This is what happens when you dumb down gameplay to one hotbar faceroll 'action' combat,everything is aimed towards the mindless hack/slash mentality player now,it is disgusting.

    I will stay with everquest 2,probably for the rest of my mmorpg lifespan because I have given up hope of a decent thinking man's mmorpg ever being made again.


    image

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,139
    Originally posted by Fangrim

    This is what happens when you dumb down gameplay to one hotbar faceroll 'action' combat,everything is aimed towards the mindless hack/slash mentality player now,it is disgusting.

    I will stay with everquest 2,probably for the rest of my mmorpg lifespan because I have given up hope of a decent thinking man's mmorpg ever being made again.

    Very true, it is why EQ was such a terrible game, that one small hot bar really needed 20+ more buttons and a ton of macros and all the thinking man's features.

    Funny that pro MOBA/FPS players can make millions of dollars on such dumbed down design. You'd think everyone could do it and huge prizes wouldn't be worth it...

  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    I think a pet system in the combat framework EQN has been related to us thus far could be the same, if not more precise, than tab.

    Pet systems are broken into two areas, pet abilities and pet control. Pet abilities could work just like player abilities can except you can point at another target instantly and choose another pet ability with aimed.

    With pet control it's the same deal. You can use the targeting reticle to put your pet exactly where you want them to stay, guard, etc.

    The only feasible limit is ability or control option slots. MMOs like FFXIV have shown this not to be a problem.

    Looks to be like a pet class would be just as great as any other in an aimed combat system.
  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    Originally posted by Allein
    Originally posted by Fangrim

    This is what happens when you dumb down gameplay to one hotbar faceroll 'action' combat,everything is aimed towards the mindless hack/slash mentality player now,it is disgusting.

    I will stay with everquest 2,probably for the rest of my mmorpg lifespan because I have given up hope of a decent thinking man's mmorpg ever being made again.

    Very true, it is why EQ was such a terrible game, that one small hot bar really needed 20+ more buttons and a ton of macros and all the thinking man's features.

    Funny that pro MOBA/FPS players can make millions of dollars on such dumbed down design. You'd think everyone could do it and huge prizes wouldn't be worth it...

    Because making money is the most important thing to players. They want to play something that makes a lot of money. How dare you not like their popular and focus group approved game.

    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • gipfeligipfeli Member UncommonPosts: 98

    why shouldn't it be possible to have pets in a game with mechanics of eqn?

     

    in my opinion eqn has one of the biggest potentials with pet classes,where you can form the behaviour of your pets with storybricks...

     

    but... opnions... right?

  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,759
    When I hear [insert mechanic] it is not possible, my mind always goes "anything is possible, you just have to think outside the boxes". So anyways, why wouldn't it be totally viable to have a sick-em skill bound to a mouse over ? Pet goes attacking the target until told otherwise or it's other ai tells it to do something else.. I don't see a problem with this, and even if there is, there are always solutions to any problem.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by Allein
    Originally posted by Fangrim

    This is what happens when you dumb down gameplay to one hotbar faceroll 'action' combat,everything is aimed towards the mindless hack/slash mentality player now,it is disgusting.

    I will stay with everquest 2,probably for the rest of my mmorpg lifespan because I have given up hope of a decent thinking man's mmorpg ever being made again.

    Very true, it is why EQ was such a terrible game, that one small hot bar really needed 20+ more buttons and a ton of macros and all the thinking man's features.

    Funny that pro MOBA/FPS players can make millions of dollars on such dumbed down design. You'd think everyone could do it and huge prizes wouldn't be worth it...

    Professional Tennis players and Golfers make a tonne of cash too, if they win..... wait, was this supposed to be relevant ? image

     

    EQ was one of the early 'MMO's i think its highly significant that WoW did not copy EQ when it came to the lack of things to put on the 'skills bar', instead they fleshed it out and improved on the original, its that kind of design choices that made WoW the MMO it is today, and it is at the end of the day about giving players at least the illusion of choice, rather than just making them hit 1, 1 , 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 4, 1, 1, 1, 2 image

    Less isn't more, its just another form of nerfing.image

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by kjempff
    When I hear [insert mechanic] it is not possible, my mind always goes "anything is possible, you just have to think outside the boxes". So anyways, why wouldn't it be totally viable to have a sick-em skill bound to a mouse over ? Pet goes attacking the target until told otherwise or it's other ai tells it to do something else.. I don't see a problem with this, and even if there is, there are always solutions to any problem.

    When i first read about SW;TOR, i thought the companion system would be utterly naff, each class after all, has a selection of 'pets' to choose from, and has to use them in solo play. But its actually fun, and the variety of 'pets' and how they work do enhance the gameplay quite a bit. now however I think that more than anything SW;TOR actually demonstrates how 'Pets' etc. can be done right, particularly when it comes to how the games AI, or 'scripting' handles how they behave. I would have to say though, that if SOE with EQN chooses to use pets as a 'buff' or a 'spell' that is used on a 'per fight' basis, that would be a huge missed opportunity for them to do something, if not original, at least creative and probably, a lot more fun.image

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852

    Originally posted by Allein

    Very true, it is why EQ was such a terrible game, that one small hot bar really needed 20+ more buttons and a ton of macros and all the thinking man's features.

    Funny that pro MOBA/FPS players can make millions of dollars on such dumbed down design. You'd think everyone could do it and huge prizes wouldn't be worth it...

    ?? huhhh   There is a pro-gaming league where players make millions?  As for the dumb down thing.  Lets face it and accept it, that most MOBA style (PvP) games are simplified, or homogenized.. But so is McDonald's menu, but that doesn't make them the most sought out location for Christmas or New Years Eve parties.. 

    Originally posted by Aelious
    I think a pet system in the combat framework EQN has been related to us thus far could be the same, if not more precise, than tab.  I don't think so..  In fact I find the loss of tab targeting increases the difficulty of pet control and combat, to a point that devs know this, and NERF combat to adjust for it..  I have been playing Tera for a couple days now to understand aim targeting outside of your Call of Duty's, and I'm not impressed..  I have noticed a number of glaring issues because of it..

    Pet systems are broken into two areas, pet abilities and pet control. Pet abilities could work just like player abilities can except you can point at another target instantly and choose another pet ability with aimed.  FIRST glaring issue, when multiple mobs are so close they are almost stacked, TERA type aim targeting makes it almost impossible to target the mob behind the other..  Tag targeting makes it easy..

    With pet control it's the same deal. You can use the targeting reticle to put your pet exactly where you want them to stay, guard, etc. 

    The only feasible limit is ability or control option slots. MMOs like FFXIV have shown this not to be a problem.

    Looks to be like a pet class would be just as great as any other in an aimed combat system.

         But it isn't..  The biggest issue with Pet / Aiming is that ya'll hype how "SKILL" of aiming makes the game exciting.. We all know that AIM'ing combat is totally reliant on the "TO HIT" percentage.. The bigger the target the easier it is to hit.. I have already noticed in TERA that most mobs are slow and big..  SHIT, it feels like I'm shooting at a barn, and can't miss..  The smaller targets have such low hit points it only takes 1 or 2 shots and they are dead.. Again NO challenge..  Now as this relates to pets. Traditionally pets do significant damage or taunt and tank the target..  Their main role was always tanking the target while their DPS masters did the rest.. Can and will pets still tank?  According to SOE, NO, the tanking taunt feature has been removed.. Now the pets become DPS roles, however pets NEVER miss hitting their target.. That being the case, you honestly think that SOE is going to allow pets to OWN their target since they never miss?  NO.. What I suspect is that pets DPS will be greatly NERFED to the point their dps numbers are nothing more then an annoying mosquito.. or Pets will become support/buff/healers.. 

    Originally posted by Phry

    When i first read about SW;TOR, i thought the companion system would be utterly naff, each class after all, has a selection of 'pets' to choose from, and has to use them in solo play. But its actually fun, and the variety of 'pets' and how they work do enhance the gameplay quite a bit. now however I think that more than anything SW;TOR actually demonstrates how 'Pets' etc. can be done right, particularly when it comes to how the games AI, or 'scripting' handles how they behave. I would have to say though, that if SOE with EQN chooses to use pets as a 'buff' or a 'spell' that is used on a 'per fight' basis, that would be a huge missed opportunity for them to do something, if not original, at least creative and probably, a lot more fun.image

    Good post.  I did like the mechanics on how companions worked in SWTOR, but didn't like that every Tom, Dick and Harry had one in play..  Each companion fulfilled a role such as Heals, Tank or DPS, and according SOE, the taunt tank role is GONE.. Which means being a squishy means nothing as well.. Anyways, I like how pets (companions) can be more dynamic, I just don't see how aim combat is going to allow "I can't miss" pet to be a significant player on the battlefield..

    My druid in EQ had a pet.... but that sure as hell didn't make me a pet class, nor could I count on my pet to do anything but look cute.. lmaooooooo

     

  • syltmackasyltmacka Member UncommonPosts: 404

    screw this game made easy for mentally challanged 12 year olds...

     

  • reb007reb007 Member UncommonPosts: 613
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by gigat

    The Mystic in Tera is a pet class.  They summon different types of pets called "Thralls."

     It is possible to have pet classes in action combat games, it's just done a little different.

     I have not heard anything on pet classes for EQN.

    I wouldn't call Thralls pets.. Surely not meaningful pets..  They are temporary assist minions, that can be one shotted easily and never last the duration of their summon.. 

    Neverwinter has a companion system.  Neverwinter also has action combat.  You can summon your companion at any time, and I think it lasts until it dies or until you cancel the summon.

    It's not impossible to implement a companion/pet system into a game with action combat.

    It will function a little different than a tab-target game, but the idea is similar.


     

    The notion that TERA doesn't count because the Thralls can only be summoned for short durations doesn't change the fact that they are, indeed, pets.  Regardless of how long the pet lasts, it's still a pet, and it's still a game with action combat.



    Also, I'm not defending EQN (I really don't care about EQN).  I am, however, defending rational thinking.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,802
    Originally posted by gigat
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by gigat

    The Mystic in Tera is a pet class.  They summon different types of pets called "Thralls."

     It is possible to have pet classes in action combat games, it's just done a little different.

     I have not heard anything on pet classes for EQN.

    I wouldn't call Thralls pets.. Surely not meaningful pets..  They are temporary assist minions, that can be one shotted easily and never last the duration of their summon.. 

    Neverwinter has a companion system.  Neverwinter also has action combat.  You can summon your companion at any time, and I think it lasts until it dies or until you cancel the summon.

    It's not impossible to implement a companion/pet system into a game with action combat.

    It will function a little different than a tab-target game, but the idea is similar.


     

    The notion that TERA doesn't count because the Thralls can only be summoned for short durations doesn't change the fact that they are, indeed, pets.  Regardless of how long the pet lasts, it's still a pet, and it's still a game with action combat.



    Also, I'm not defending EQN (I really don't care about EQN).  I am, however, defending rational thinking.

    I completely agree. And I like your last sentence!

    I don't remember the thralls even though I played a bit of Tera. Having said that, why can't there be a "tab target" to issue instructions but the pet itself still has to connect and deal with the enemy's blocks and dodges.

    The only reason why there aren't "tabs" in "action combat" is because you don't want players artificially sticking to their enemy. "pointing out" an enemy with a tab and giving instructions is a very different thing.

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  • PurutzilPurutzil Member UncommonPosts: 3,048
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by azarhal

    Unless they changed their original designs as presented last year in a Pc Gamer interview:

    The Necromancer in EQNext will have a permanent companion (that they call a monstrosity) and the Beastlord is supposed to have furry friends.

     

         Oh.. I'm sure they'll toss in some nibbles, but I doubt those pets will have an real PUNCH..  They'll probably be more like Thralls, or like the Enchanters pet that acted more as a sacrificial distraction then a pet..  I actually liked my EQ1's Beastlord w/ pet.. We could do some good melee dps, and pet could hold his own if needed..

    So what you are wanting is the class to have a pet that carries you without an ounce of skill on your side? Not really sure if thats a very 'fun' way of doing it. I don't mind if the pet can do some work, but it would have to be in conjunction with your character in some way. A vicious beast doing all the damage is fine, but its going to need its owner to target and do certain things to permit it to do that damage. Perhaps having some bit of micro involved in managing the pet's location or direction of its attacks would work.

    If its just doing crazy damage without needing any input from the user to accomplish it, I can't see how anyone could feel rewarded at all playing the class. If the pet will be doing all the damage, you might as well just make that pet into a playable character and take direct control of it.

     

    That said, the thread does seem to conjecture about something that there isn't much told about, though I've seen some responses that do seem to suggest that there ARE pet classes, it is just about if it can auto play the game and win for you.

  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,402
    Originally posted by gigat
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by gigat

    The Mystic in Tera is a pet class.  They summon different types of pets called "Thralls."

     It is possible to have pet classes in action combat games, it's just done a little different.

     I have not heard anything on pet classes for EQN.

    I wouldn't call Thralls pets.. Surely not meaningful pets..  They are temporary assist minions, that can be one shotted easily and never last the duration of their summon.. 

    Neverwinter has a companion system.  Neverwinter also has action combat.  You can summon your companion at any time, and I think it lasts until it dies or until you cancel the summon.

    When they die you can revive them, they are only sent away by cancelling the summon. Action combat doesn't require the pet to work differently from tab-target games. In both games, the player gives the pet instructions, how the targeting works doesn't matter.

  • gipfeligipfeli Member UncommonPosts: 98
    Originally posted by Rydeson

    Originally posted by Allein

    Very true, it is why EQ was such a terrible game, that one small hot bar really needed 20+ more buttons and a ton of macros and all the thinking man's features.

    Funny that pro MOBA/FPS players can make millions of dollars on such dumbed down design. You'd think everyone could do it and huge prizes wouldn't be worth it...

    ?? huhhh   There is a pro-gaming league where players make millions?  As for the dumb down thing.  Lets face it and accept it, that most MOBA style (PvP) games are simplified, or homogenized.. But so is McDonald's menu, but that doesn't make them the most sought out location for Christmas or New Years Eve parties..   

    played hundreds of hours in dota 2, still a noob.. would never call it simple :)

     

    back to topic.. there are mobs right?

    why can't there be pets then?

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