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Damn the combat

holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,766

I recently tried the game again and found it to be really amazing except for one thing- the combat!  People have talked about it before but it's just too slow to be any fun.

I leveled up to 50 and started the progression and even with the harder battles it's still pretty simplistic.

It's a terrible shame too because the rest of the game is without a doubt the best themepark I've ever played- graphics, story, things to do etc.- all of it beyond top notch.

Now part of it may be because I was a blm, but still I can't see it being much better on another class.

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Comments

  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,938
    Originally posted by holdenhamlet

    I recently tried the game again and found it to be really amazing except for one thing- the combat!  People have talked about it before but it's just too slow to be any fun.

    I leveled up to 50 and started the progression and even with the harder battles it's still pretty simplistic.

    It's a terrible shame too because the rest of the game is without a doubt the best themepark I've ever played- graphics, story, things to do etc.- all of it beyond top notch.

    Now part of it may be because I was a blm, but still I can't see it being much better on another class.

    Yeah, I felt the same way about the combat, hard not to fall asleep. Amazing world/atmosphere though.

    ....
  • FourplayFourplay Member UncommonPosts: 216
    Originally posted by holdenhamlet

    I recently tried the game again and found it to be really amazing except for one thing- the combat!  People have talked about it before but it's just too slow to be any fun.

    I leveled up to 50 and started the progression and even with the harder battles it's still pretty simplistic.

    It's a terrible shame too because the rest of the game is without a doubt the best themepark I've ever played- graphics, story, things to do etc.- all of it beyond top notch.

    Now part of it may be because I was a blm, but still I can't see it being much better on another class.

    I do not have a problem with the speed. My issue is with the simplicity. There is no synergistic party interactions like skill chains, regiments,  or something else. Also they should bring back the system that has monster's have multiple areas to target.

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671
    Melee classes and bard are actually more fun to play but the thing I do not like about the game in general is their tp system. They have a stat called skill speed in the game which is pretty useless. Yes, it allows you to reduce the cooldowns of your skills; however, that means you are spending tp faster which means you will be useless faster since you'll have to be waiting on tp. Skill speed should increase the rate at which you regain tp per tick, but that might be too complex for SE to fix. Casters are pretty solid combat wise. I'd suggest that if you do not like blm, you might want to give smn a go.
  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357
    Originally posted by Fourplay
    Originally posted by holdenhamlet

    I recently tried the game again and found it to be really amazing except for one thing- the combat!  People have talked about it before but it's just too slow to be any fun.

    I leveled up to 50 and started the progression and even with the harder battles it's still pretty simplistic.

    It's a terrible shame too because the rest of the game is without a doubt the best themepark I've ever played- graphics, story, things to do etc.- all of it beyond top notch.

    Now part of it may be because I was a blm, but still I can't see it being much better on another class.

    I do not have a problem with the speed. My issue is with the simplicity. There is no synergistic party interactions like skill chains, regiments,  or something else. Also they should bring back the system that has monster's have multiple areas to target.

    The only way to "fix" this is to implement FFXI-style "super important group synergy move blast"-system because the FFXI vets do not seem to comprehend the synergy that is already incredibly apparent unless SE makes a gameplay system out of it.

    Scholars and White Mages work best when cooperating with one another; DPS jobs like Ninja work best when cooperating with other melee DPS; Bards work best when cooperating with other DPS (for TP) or mages (for MP); tanks work best when cooperating with one another.

    Especially the way WHM and SCH complement each other and build off of each others' strengths has created thousand times more synergy than some Official Tacked On Synergy System(tm).

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357
    Originally posted by holdenhamlet

    I recently tried the game again and found it to be really amazing except for one thing- the combat!  People have talked about it before but it's just too slow to be any fun.

    I leveled up to 50 and started the progression and even with the harder battles it's still pretty simplistic.

    I'm getting a vibe from your post that simple = boring, while complex = fun. While the fact is neither simple nor boring in their own right make for a fun or boring game. It's what you do with the simplicity or complexity that matters. Many of the best games in the world are rather simple in their mechanics, while many of the worst games in the world have created unnecessary complexity.

    The MMORPG community has been conditioned to favor complexity and speed. Anything new or abnormal is going to be met with a backlash, because it requires people to actually adapt to something they're not used to.

    If the amount of button presses per minute is the primary indication of whether a combat system is fun or boring, it tells more about the player than the game. That is not to say simple and slower combat system cannot be worse than the alternative, but it is never so merely because it is more simple and slower.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • RoinRoin Member RarePosts: 3,409
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by Fourplay
    Originally posted by holdenhamlet

    I recently tried the game again and found it to be really amazing except for one thing- the combat!  People have talked about it before but it's just too slow to be any fun.

    I leveled up to 50 and started the progression and even with the harder battles it's still pretty simplistic.

    It's a terrible shame too because the rest of the game is without a doubt the best themepark I've ever played- graphics, story, things to do etc.- all of it beyond top notch.

    Now part of it may be because I was a blm, but still I can't see it being much better on another class.

    I do not have a problem with the speed. My issue is with the simplicity. There is no synergistic party interactions like skill chains, regiments,  or something else. Also they should bring back the system that has monster's have multiple areas to target.

    The only way to "fix" this is to implement FFXI-style "super important group synergy move blast"-system because the FFXI vets do not seem to comprehend the synergy that is already incredibly apparent unless SE makes a gameplay system out of it.

    Scholars and White Mages work best when cooperating with one another; DPS jobs like Ninja work best when cooperating with other melee DPS; Bards work best when cooperating with other DPS (for TP) or mages (for MP); tanks work best when cooperating with one another.

    Especially the way WHM and SCH complement each other and build off of each others' strengths has created thousand times more synergy than some Official Synergy System(tm).

    Nailed it.

    In War - Victory.
    In Peace - Vigilance.
    In Death - Sacrifice.

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx Member UncommonPosts: 2,039
    Didn't even feel the slow combat till i played ESO and now i can't get into FFXIV combat at all.
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,766
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by holdenhamlet

    I recently tried the game again and found it to be really amazing except for one thing- the combat!  People have talked about it before but it's just too slow to be any fun.

    I leveled up to 50 and started the progression and even with the harder battles it's still pretty simplistic.

    I'm getting a vibe from your post that simple = boring, while complex = fun. While the fact is neither simple nor boring in their own right make for a fun or boring game. It's what you do with the simplicity or complexity that matters. Many of the best games in the world are rather simple in their mechanics, while many of the worst games in the world have created unnecessary complexity where it doesn't belong.

    The MMORPG community has been conditioned to favor complexity and speed. Anything new or abnormal is going to be met with a backlash, because it requires people to actually adapt to something they're not used to.

    If the amount of button presses per minute is the primary indication of whether a combat system is fun or boring, it tells more about the player than the game.

    It's not the amount of button presses- it's about having to act and react and thus get immersed in the combat.

    Tab target is pretty bland to begin with but with the long cooldowns it's like molasses speed.  The only thing to watch out for is glowing stuff on the ground and besides that it's just going through the same simple rotations over and over.

    At least when I was playing FFXIV back in the day as a rdm, the rotations were complex and there were skillchains to time right.

    As for the synergy thing, BLM has like no synergy with anyone.  In FFXI, BLM burst on skillchains was super important.  I'm not even dependent on others for mana with the stance switching mechanic.

  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 6,602

    Playing a white mage I have realised that people cannot even stay out of the damage cones or circles. They often stand there especially the stupid ninja and pugilist while most tanks seem to learn this.  Then you have the stupid BLM that stand in melee range so they get hit by the general attacks too. 

     

    You might say the game is simple but a majority of players whom I group with in the random groups have trouble following simple stuff. When we do Syrcus Tower we have healer who do not dispel the bomb and when we do Garuda they stand next to the pillars in spite of being told not to. The complexity in a game is only apparent may be when we are doing Bahamut turns the higher level ones where one death is a  wipe. So may be the lower level content is too easy for you so try and play as a melee or play the harder content with static groups. I also noticed keeping up poorly gear characters in the new dungeons become harder and when they play stupidly even harder so bearing this in mind you should also realise the appeal this game may have for many MMORPG players.

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357
    Originally posted by holdenhamlet
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by holdenhamlet

    I recently tried the game again and found it to be really amazing except for one thing- the combat!  People have talked about it before but it's just too slow to be any fun.

    I leveled up to 50 and started the progression and even with the harder battles it's still pretty simplistic.

    I'm getting a vibe from your post that simple = boring, while complex = fun. While the fact is neither simple nor boring in their own right make for a fun or boring game. It's what you do with the simplicity or complexity that matters. Many of the best games in the world are rather simple in their mechanics, while many of the worst games in the world have created unnecessary complexity where it doesn't belong.

    The MMORPG community has been conditioned to favor complexity and speed. Anything new or abnormal is going to be met with a backlash, because it requires people to actually adapt to something they're not used to.

    If the amount of button presses per minute is the primary indication of whether a combat system is fun or boring, it tells more about the player than the game.

    It's not the amount of button presses- it's about having to act and react and thus get immersed in the combat.

    Tab target is pretty bland to begin with but with the long cooldowns it's like molasses speed.  The only thing to watch out for is glowing stuff on the ground and besides that it's just going through the same simple rotations over and over.

    At least when I was playing FFXIV back in the day as a rdm, the rotations were complex and there were skillchains to time right.

    As for the synergy thing, BLM has like no synergy with anyone.  In FFXI, BLM burst on skillchains was super important.  I'm not even dependent on others for mana with the stance switching mechanic.

    Yet more button presses does not mean you will suddenly have to act and react more. It can just be about pressing more buttons without any particular reason to. When you don't press as many buttons each button press has more weight added to it in the combat setting. Whatever you do or don't do has more weight than if you could spam skills every second. You can easily see both in practice in FFXIV by playing SCH or WHM. Scholar has more "actions" per minute with the pet while White mage has less actions. That is why WHM has to commit to each and every action while SCH is not so committed to each action. Just try to DPS with WHM as opposed to SCH: the commitment is completely different between the two.

    You out of all people should also realize this since you play BLM. Each skill you do you must commit to, since you need to be immobile for the time of the casting. If you can't weave in enough actions in-between having to move your DPS will plummet; thus you need to know when to cast spells and when not to, and this decision has far more weight in FFXIV. If you could spam spells every second you would be much, much less committed to each action. This completely changes the feel of the game, but does not necessarily make it any "better".

    I agree that BLM has the least synergy in the game currently with anyone. However the rest of the game has far more synergy inter-classwise than FFXI ever had with its tacked on synergy systems. FFXIV synergy is far more organic and comes from the way classes are designed to complement each other, not tacked on gimmicks on top of the basic gameplay.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • Spankster77Spankster77 Member UncommonPosts: 487

    The two biggest issues I had with FFXIV was the combat feeling super slow and the whole game being so instanced.  I imagine they had to do the latter because of the game being released on console but the instanced zones kill immersion for me.

     

    As far as the slow combat goes I think the major issue is that there is like a 2.5 second global cooldown during which you find yourself looking for something to do. 

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135

    Yep, the combat in FFXIV is undoubtedly it's weakest quality (pvp included). Inspite of that I still had fun w/ the game for a while, but the OP is right. It's too simple.

    It's not just about not having the renkai system from FFXI. (Which I loved btw, but it didn't work. Because people became too lazy to deal w/ it and just started doing TP burn groups instead).

    But also the actual mechanics of the combat are incredibly simplistic. You don't really have to worry much about resistances, because the abilities are too simplified for that to work. Instead you have very vanilla 'buff X' type of damage modifiers, and defense modifiers. In fact the only real class synergy involves using these buffs (i.e. dragons buff pierc, which also buffs bard damage). But they are pretty much irrelevant outside of coil. Even then, you really only see such synergy w/ drg and ninja. And yet one of those aren't frequently chosen, because it's too difficult for most people to play them properly (drg).

    - As for job dynamics, BLM seems like the simplest on the surface, but its one of the harder ones if you are trying to maximize your dps. It requires a lot of timing and mana management, which can be difficult while moving. Bard is easily the easiest class to play, with DRG or NIN being the hardest, followed by summoner / scholar (imho). Though I know some people will disagree w/ me on these, but this is just what I've found from playing through endgame content on everything but PLD (which I found too boring to get to 50).

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,291

    I disagree that combat is simplistic in the tougher battles ,it is of fact anything but,SEVERAL runs were needed to figure them out.However on a whole combat is weak and the reason i lost interest.Well i also don't want to play another WOW game grinding gear progressions,that is a dumb reason to play any game.

    Long story short,they lost their shirt making the engine and getting ti to work properly so ALL of FFXIV's design was streamlined and rushed to hurry it to market.Even in it's weakened state they released a really bad game.Then they  shored it up however the combat design was already set in stone and imo it is really weak and takes a LONG backseat to FFXI combat.Having said that EVERY game takes a back seat to FFXI's combat /class design so when compared to other games it is for example not much different than WOW.I mean seriously self resurrection potions how lame could Blizzard be?

    TP in FFXI was done really well but for sake of trying to warrant selling us a very shallow version of FFXI Square tried to change things up a bit from classes to the combat system,however as i stated it was all done SOE style,dumbed down badly.

    Unless Square does a 360 pulls off a SWG i won't ever be returning to FFXIV,my favorite reasons for playing mmorpg's is not there in the game.Trying to be too much like WOW is a complete turnoff for me.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    I disagree that combat is simplistic in the tougher battles ,it is of fact anything but,SEVERAL runs were needed to figure them out.However on a whole combat is weak and the reason i lost interest.Well i also don't want to play another WOW game grinding gear progressions,that is a dumb reason to play any game.

    Needing several runs to figure out a boss doesn't mean the combat is complex. It means they have decent boss mechanics. Though it does say something that today needing to do a boss fight more than once somehow means its difficult.

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357
    Originally posted by aesperus

    Needing several runs to figure out a boss doesn't mean the combat is complex. It means they have decent boss mechanics. Though it does say something that today needing to do a boss fight more than once somehow means its difficult.

    Complexity for complexity's sake. That's what people want, because that's what they're used to. The combat will not become any more "fun", but people can rest easy knowing they don't have to adjust themselves in any way to FFXIV from other MMOs.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357
    Originally posted by aesperus

    Needing several runs to figure out a boss doesn't mean the combat is complex.

    Yes, according to people here the combat mechanics have to be complex just for complexity's sake. 

    Well, if we go to the meta level the combat has to be complex just because that's what you're used to.

    Pretty silly.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • zaberfangxzaberfangx Member UncommonPosts: 1,796
    Is it the combat was made to be balance out with pc and console in mind?
  • vandal5627vandal5627 Member UncommonPosts: 788

    I don't see anything special about any combat systems in any MMORPGs.  It's just a bunch of button pressing.  It's all about the encounters and FFXIV ARR has some very fun and challenging encounters where it requires group synergy and coordination above all else.  I love that.

    Also, the graphics of all the skills and spells you use, I feel it's second to none in details as well as quality.

  • nbtscannbtscan Member UncommonPosts: 862

    Try playing MNK or NIN at 50 and it'll feel a lot busier.  BLM is probably the most simplistic job to play.  Even if you prefer caster, there's SMN which plays a lot like a WoW Warlock and you're constantly working on keeping DoTs up, while managing a pet to a lesser degree.

    The jobs themselves are pretty easy to play, but mixing that in with some of the more complex encounters is what makes the battle system fun to me.  In (before nerfs) Second and Final Coil, there are some fights that are very unforgiving to mistakes and demand near perfection from 8 people, so if you ever delve into those types of fights I don't think you'll find it as easy as say the hard mode Primals and such.

    Sometimes I think people forget this game is technically barely a year old.  (I don't include the former version of the game because they changed around most of its game systems)  They have an expansion coming out early next year which will raise the level cap, and undoubtedly add new abilities for each job.  The battle system may get tweaked at its core too for all we know.  Hopefully what we're seeing right now is just its foundation.

  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,766

    "You out of all people should also realize this since you play BLM. Each skill you do you must commit to, since you need to be immobile for the time of the casting. If you can't weave in enough actions in-between having to move your DPS will plummet; thus you need to know when to cast spells and when not to, and this decision has far more weight in FFXIV."

    There is no decision though.  Find a safe spot and cast fire 1 until it procs, then cast fire 3.  That's basically the bulk of what I do.

    It's literally basically pressing one button every couple of seconds.  The same freaking button.

    Totally not dependent on anything anyone else does and the only way the mobs factor in is if I can find a safe spot or not.

    I'm thinking a melee might be more interesting because at least you have to weave in and out of being near the mob, but besides that I'm thinking not so much really.

    Maybe actually a healer would be the best because you have to actually react depending on what your team does.

    What you describe might be cool if there were really small windows where I could cast, but it's not like that.  I get plenty of time and it's usually extremely obvious if an attack is coming to range.

    Maybe in the hardest fights it's like that but I just don't have the patience to wait that long.

    I'm currently leveling up a reaper in TERA.  Everything about the game is worse except for the combat, which is like lightyears better.

    ***

    I actually think you pinpointed my problem with the combat system.  It's not really the speed, although the speed makes it more apparent.  It's more about the fact that there's no decisions to be made.

    I would actually prefer turn-based FF-solo style gameplay, where you had to choose the right actions and spells at the right times, even though it was as slow as you wanted it to be.

  • FourplayFourplay Member UncommonPosts: 216
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by Fourplay
    Originally posted by holdenhamlet

    I recently tried the game again and found it to be really amazing except for one thing- the combat!  People have talked about it before but it's just too slow to be any fun.

    I leveled up to 50 and started the progression and even with the harder battles it's still pretty simplistic.

    It's a terrible shame too because the rest of the game is without a doubt the best themepark I've ever played- graphics, story, things to do etc.- all of it beyond top notch.

    Now part of it may be because I was a blm, but still I can't see it being much better on another class.

    I do not have a problem with the speed. My issue is with the simplicity. There is no synergistic party interactions like skill chains, regiments,  or something else. Also they should bring back the system that has monster's have multiple areas to target.

    The only way to "fix" this is to implement FFXI-style "super important group synergy move blast"-system because the FFXI vets do not seem to comprehend the synergy that is already incredibly apparent unless SE makes a gameplay system out of it.

    Scholars and White Mages work best when cooperating with one another; DPS jobs like Ninja work best when cooperating with other melee DPS; Bards work best when cooperating with other DPS (for TP) or mages (for MP); tanks work best when cooperating with one another.

    Especially the way WHM and SCH complement each other and build off of each others' strengths has created thousand times more synergy than some Official Tacked On Synergy System(tm).

    How do classes synergize in the moment gameplay wise?

    Is there GW2 type synergy as in shooting arrows through a mages fire? No

    Is there skill chains which each individual can contribute to weaken or damage an enemy? No

    Is there regiments like FFXIV 1.0 had? No

    What is there? Solo combos and simplified limit breaks which take no skill other than deciding when to use them.

    People compare combat to WoW because of cooldowns and hotbars. I compare it more to God OF War and normally that would be a compliment but not in the case of Final Fantasy which has been known for coming up with innovative battle systems. 

     

    One thing they did get right is positional and situational weaponskill powerups but then they only applied it to certain classes which makes certain classes more complex to play.

  • FourplayFourplay Member UncommonPosts: 216
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by holdenhamlet
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by holdenhamlet

    I recently tried the game again and found it to be really amazing except for one thing- the combat!  People have talked about it before but it's just too slow to be any fun.

    I leveled up to 50 and started the progression and even with the harder battles it's still pretty simplistic.

    I'm getting a vibe from your post that simple = boring, while complex = fun. While the fact is neither simple nor boring in their own right make for a fun or boring game. It's what you do with the simplicity or complexity that matters. Many of the best games in the world are rather simple in their mechanics, while many of the worst games in the world have created unnecessary complexity where it doesn't belong.

    The MMORPG community has been conditioned to favor complexity and speed. Anything new or abnormal is going to be met with a backlash, because it requires people to actually adapt to something they're not used to.

    If the amount of button presses per minute is the primary indication of whether a combat system is fun or boring, it tells more about the player than the game.

    It's not the amount of button presses- it's about having to act and react and thus get immersed in the combat.

    Tab target is pretty bland to begin with but with the long cooldowns it's like molasses speed.  The only thing to watch out for is glowing stuff on the ground and besides that it's just going through the same simple rotations over and over.

    At least when I was playing FFXIV back in the day as a rdm, the rotations were complex and there were skillchains to time right.

    As for the synergy thing, BLM has like no synergy with anyone.  In FFXI, BLM burst on skillchains was super important.  I'm not even dependent on others for mana with the stance switching mechanic.

    Yet more button presses does not mean you will suddenly have to act and react more. It can just be about pressing more buttons without any particular reason to. When you don't press as many buttons each button press has more weight added to it in the combat setting. Whatever you do or don't do has more weight than if you could spam skills every second. You can easily see both in practice in FFXIV by playing SCH or WHM. Scholar has more "actions" per minute with the pet while White mage has less actions. That is why WHM has to commit to each and every action while SCH is not so committed to each action. Just try to DPS with WHM as opposed to SCH: the commitment is completely different between the two.

    You out of all people should also realize this since you play BLM. Each skill you do you must commit to, since you need to be immobile for the time of the casting. If you can't weave in enough actions in-between having to move your DPS will plummet; thus you need to know when to cast spells and when not to, and this decision has far more weight in FFXIV. If you could spam spells every second you would be much, much less committed to each action. This completely changes the feel of the game, but does not necessarily make it any "better".

    I agree that BLM has the least synergy in the game currently with anyone. However the rest of the game has far more synergy inter-classwise than FFXI ever had with its tacked on synergy systems. FFXIV synergy is far more organic and comes from the way classes are designed to complement each other, not tacked on gimmicks on top of the basic gameplay.

    More button presses does not mean you need to react more.You press more buttons in ARR than FFXI. Dark Souls is known to be slower than most rpgs yet it is more complex than any other single rpg out now. I don't even want more button presses or more speed. I want depth, weight, and momentum. Other than endgame most battles can be face rolled with little to no attention to what is happening. For a Final Fantasy that is not right.

  • vandal5627vandal5627 Member UncommonPosts: 788
    Originally posted by Fourplay
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by holdenhamlet
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by holdenhamlet

    I recently tried the game again and found it to be really amazing except for one thing- the combat!  People have talked about it before but it's just too slow to be any fun.

    I leveled up to 50 and started the progression and even with the harder battles it's still pretty simplistic.

    I'm getting a vibe from your post that simple = boring, while complex = fun. While the fact is neither simple nor boring in their own right make for a fun or boring game. It's what you do with the simplicity or complexity that matters. Many of the best games in the world are rather simple in their mechanics, while many of the worst games in the world have created unnecessary complexity where it doesn't belong.

    The MMORPG community has been conditioned to favor complexity and speed. Anything new or abnormal is going to be met with a backlash, because it requires people to actually adapt to something they're not used to.

    If the amount of button presses per minute is the primary indication of whether a combat system is fun or boring, it tells more about the player than the game.

    It's not the amount of button presses- it's about having to act and react and thus get immersed in the combat.

    Tab target is pretty bland to begin with but with the long cooldowns it's like molasses speed.  The only thing to watch out for is glowing stuff on the ground and besides that it's just going through the same simple rotations over and over.

    At least when I was playing FFXIV back in the day as a rdm, the rotations were complex and there were skillchains to time right.

    As for the synergy thing, BLM has like no synergy with anyone.  In FFXI, BLM burst on skillchains was super important.  I'm not even dependent on others for mana with the stance switching mechanic.

    Yet more button presses does not mean you will suddenly have to act and react more. It can just be about pressing more buttons without any particular reason to. When you don't press as many buttons each button press has more weight added to it in the combat setting. Whatever you do or don't do has more weight than if you could spam skills every second. You can easily see both in practice in FFXIV by playing SCH or WHM. Scholar has more "actions" per minute with the pet while White mage has less actions. That is why WHM has to commit to each and every action while SCH is not so committed to each action. Just try to DPS with WHM as opposed to SCH: the commitment is completely different between the two.

    You out of all people should also realize this since you play BLM. Each skill you do you must commit to, since you need to be immobile for the time of the casting. If you can't weave in enough actions in-between having to move your DPS will plummet; thus you need to know when to cast spells and when not to, and this decision has far more weight in FFXIV. If you could spam spells every second you would be much, much less committed to each action. This completely changes the feel of the game, but does not necessarily make it any "better".

    I agree that BLM has the least synergy in the game currently with anyone. However the rest of the game has far more synergy inter-classwise than FFXI ever had with its tacked on synergy systems. FFXIV synergy is far more organic and comes from the way classes are designed to complement each other, not tacked on gimmicks on top of the basic gameplay.

    More button presses does not mean you need to react more.You press more buttons in ARR than FFXI. Dark Souls is known to be slower than most rpgs yet it is more complex than any other single rpg out now. I don't even want more button presses or more speed. I want depth, weight, and momentum. Other than endgame most battles can be face rolled with little to no attention to what is happening. For a Final Fantasy that is not right.

    What?  Most solo content is face rolled but other then that, everything else is not easy unless you're over geared or it's been nerfed because people were complaining it was too hard.  You're totally exaggerating.

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357
    Originally posted by Fourplay
    Other than endgame most battles can be face rolled with little to no attention to what is happening. For a Final Fantasy that is not right.

    That is Final Fantasy I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X, X-2, XI, XII, XIII, XIII-2, LR:FFXIII in a nutshell.

    You have just hit the essence of what it means to play a Final Fantasy game.

    You have done well, even if unintentionally so.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357
    Originally posted by Fourplay
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by Fourplay
    Originally posted by holdenhamlet

    I recently tried the game again and found it to be really amazing except for one thing- the combat!  People have talked about it before but it's just too slow to be any fun.

    I leveled up to 50 and started the progression and even with the harder battles it's still pretty simplistic.

    It's a terrible shame too because the rest of the game is without a doubt the best themepark I've ever played- graphics, story, things to do etc.- all of it beyond top notch.

    Now part of it may be because I was a blm, but still I can't see it being much better on another class.

    I do not have a problem with the speed. My issue is with the simplicity. There is no synergistic party interactions like skill chains, regiments,  or something else. Also they should bring back the system that has monster's have multiple areas to target.

    The only way to "fix" this is to implement FFXI-style "super important group synergy move blast"-system because the FFXI vets do not seem to comprehend the synergy that is already incredibly apparent unless SE makes a gameplay system out of it.

    Scholars and White Mages work best when cooperating with one another; DPS jobs like Ninja work best when cooperating with other melee DPS; Bards work best when cooperating with other DPS (for TP) or mages (for MP); tanks work best when cooperating with one another.

    Especially the way WHM and SCH complement each other and build off of each others' strengths has created thousand times more synergy than some Official Tacked On Synergy System(tm).

    How do classes synergize in the moment gameplay wise?

    Is there GW2 type synergy as in shooting arrows through a mages fire? No

    Is there skill chains which each individual can contribute to weaken or damage an enemy? No

    Is there regiments like FFXIV 1.0 had? No

    What is there? Solo combos and simplified limit breaks which take no skill other than deciding when to use them.

    People compare combat to WoW because of cooldowns and hotbars. I compare it more to God OF War and normally that would be a compliment but not in the case of Final Fantasy which has been known for coming up with innovative battle systems. 

     

    One thing they did get right is positional and situational weaponskill powerups but then they only applied it to certain classes which makes certain classes more complex to play.

    I just told you what is there in the post you quoted. If words aren't enough to make you understand, there is nothing I can do for you.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
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