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New trait system gives newbies a good old kick in the balls

akuma696akuma696 Member UncommonPosts: 55
I know I am late to this party and argument as in the beginning this had no affect on me as all my toons are lvl 80 and I havent bothered to remake any new toons untilljust recently when one of my friends who just brought the game told me he only have 1 trait in the adept line ... n to unlock the other traits they had to do some events map completion jumping puzzles ect. I understand Anet wants people to do other stuff in the game but why are you forcing it down on the newbies throat. On top of it to unlock all the traits (if you dont want to jump through their hoops) will have to expend 43 gold and 360 skill points! really anet how many newbies have that many skill points and gold. In the past it only cost a couple of gold to unlock each tier which was doable for newbies but now honestly. I really wish they had the kitten storm of a media coverage they got from the gem UI but this most likely didn't bother most players who had max toons so no1 really cared. So newbies beware you will have to grind just to be able to test builds in this game or pay a shit load of gold xD and yes people now have more reasons to hate you newbies cause u wont have the right trait builds for dungeon runs

Comments

  • What? 43 gold is casually dungeon grind for 2 days. That's all. Is this hard for the newbies? Really? And on top of that you don't have to buy any trait. Just go and do what you have to do. Is it really that hard to just complate an event from a certain area etc? Just play your game. You will unlock all the traits when you hit 80. Seriously you people sometimes don't know what to complain and just cry about random nonsense.

    And before the new trait system most of the players cried about why we don't have any skill progress like Guild Wars has. Than ArenaNet gave you your progress. And now players cry about it. Really? That's not something to cry about. Actually this is the first time I see someone don't like it. Only bad thing about this system(which I don't think it is that bad.) is that ArenaNet reduced the trait points. That's understandable. Some people didn't like it. But again nothing wrong with the progress system. Which I think awsome when you think about the future when they include new traits like they did in the first future patch with new challenges that you have to do to gain them.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    The fact that you get the trait points later is somewhat annoying in PvP but that is about it.

    You will unlock a lot of those traits as you play and the ones you feel you need that you can't or don't feel to unlock in-game can be unlocked for gold.

    The thing is that you get rewards when you level up now to compensate anyways and the newbie experience is far smoother now for none MMOers then it was at launch.

    Sure, the newbie experience could be made even smoother but I still don't think it really is something to complain about. It is far more annoying for us old players that are used to the old system then for new players (at least the ones I know who started since the change).

    The game is generally a lot better now then it was at launch and a lot of good stuff have been added even though I think that 3 new zones in 2 years is far too little, and a single dungeon path (beside the fractals which are fine).

    My wish for GW2 is a new expansion (or campaign), possibly Cantha with a new race and maybe a new class or 2. That is really what the game needs instead of more tweaking.

     

  • mrneurosismrneurosis Member UncommonPosts: 305
    Originally posted by Nepheth

    What? 43 gold is casually dungeon grind for 2 days. That's all. Is this hard for the newbies? Really? And on top of that you don't have to buy any trait. Just go and do what you have to do. Is it really that hard to just complate an event from a certain area etc? Just play your game. You will unlock all the traits when you hit 80. Seriously you people sometimes don't know what to complain and just cry about random nonsense.

    And before the new trait system most of the players cried about why we don't have any skill progress like Guild Wars has. Than ArenaNet gave you your progress. And now players cry about it. Really? That's not something to cry about. Actually this is the first time I see someone don't like it. Only bad thing about this system(which I don't think it is that bad.) is that ArenaNet reduced the trait points. That's understandable. Some people didn't like it. But again nothing wrong with the progress system. Which I think awsome when you think about the future when they include new traits like they did in the first future patch with new challenges that you have to do to gain them.

    Why so aggressive? OP didn't flame or insult anyone. Why can't people be civil..it is just a video game you know?


  • My wish for GW2 is a new expansion (or campaign), possibly Cantha with a new race and maybe a new class or 2. That is really what the game needs instead of more tweaking.

    Ah I whish... That's why I took a break from the game. Gw2 seriously needs a new expansion. Arenanet has a huge developer team. I seriously don't know what they're doing there. The new living story system is a lot more quality than the first season. But on the quantity and the gameplay side they're pumping more simple contents. I hope they're doing something huge that we don't know. And I hope that's a new expansion.

    @mrneurosis I'm not aggrasive at all. That's the reality. If you complain about the 42 gold(which is nothing even for a newbie) or the challenges(which are easy as f*ck) you have to do to gain couple of traits, you're the real problem there, not the game.

  • akuma696akuma696 Member UncommonPosts: 55
    Originally posted by Nepheth

    What? 43 gold is casually dungeon grind for 2 days. That's all. Is this hard for the newbies? Really? And on top of that you don't have to buy any trait. Just go and do what you have to do. Is it really that hard to just complate an event from a certain area etc? Just play your game. You will unlock all the traits when you hit 80. Seriously you people sometimes don't know what to complain and just cry about random nonsense.

    And before the new trait system most of the players cried about why we don't have any skill progress like Guild Wars has. Than ArenaNet gave you your progress. And now players cry about it. Really? That's not something to cry about. Actually this is the first time I see someone don't like it. Only bad thing about this system(which I don't think it is that bad.) is that ArenaNet reduced the trait points. That's understandable. Some people didn't like it. But again nothing wrong with the progress system. Which I think awsome when you think about the future when they include new traits like they did in the first future patch with new challenges that you have to do to gain them.

    Yes casual dungeon grind for 2 days would be great if you had the traits to support you when you did the run instead of bringing the team down with the limited build you have. Yes play the game by sitting in one location waiting for an event to spawn or spend an hour completing a map to unlock one trait. My main point of this post is that it really limits the options in builds the new players have which is stupid. Not only are they weaker than people who are already 80 doing the dungeon runs they are now limited in trait options. And it doesnt just cost 43 gold it requires 360 skill points also which is a pain to grind with the NPE.

    As for your part about people crying about gw2 not being like gw1 I couldn't give too craps about that part as I never played gw1 and the only thing I want from gw1 is the lore. If you dont think this makes new players have a harder time keeping up with existing players then thats your opinion

  • akuma696akuma696 Member UncommonPosts: 55
    Originally posted by Nepheth

     


    My wish for GW2 is a new expansion (or campaign), possibly Cantha with a new race and maybe a new class or 2. That is really what the game needs instead of more tweaking.

     

    Ah I whish... That's why I took a break from the game. Gw2 seriously needs a new expansion. Arenanet has a huge developer team. I seriously don't know what they're doing there. The new living story system is a lot more quality than the first season. But on the quantity and the gameplay side they're pumping more simple contents. I hope they're doing something huge that we don't know. And I hope that's a new expansion.

    @mrneurosis I'm not aggrasive at all. That's the reality. If you complain about the 42 gold(which is nothing even for a newbie) or the challenges(which are easy as f*ck) you have to do to gain couple of traits, you're the real problem there, not the game.

    I dont know which newbies ur talking about but they dont know how to grind dungeons and people tend to not want to party with people who dont have experience so yes you can grind the dungeon if u are lucky to have a party to do it with. To us high level characters 42 gold is nothing but for a newbie who is just starting the game they could spend it on other stuff. 

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by Nepheth

    My wish for GW2 is a new expansion (or campaign), possibly Cantha with a new race and maybe a new class or 2. That is really what the game needs instead of more tweaking.

    Ah I whish... That's why I took a break from the game. Gw2 seriously needs a new expansion. Arenanet has a huge developer team. I seriously don't know what they're doing there. The new living story system is a lot more quality than the first season. But on the quantity and the gameplay side they're pumping more simple contents. I hope they're doing something huge that we don't know. And I hope that's a new expansion.

    @mrneurosis I'm not aggrasive at all. That's the reality. If you complain about the 42 gold(which is nothing even for a newbie) or the challenges(which are easy as f*ck) you have to do to gain couple of traits, you're the real problem there, not the game.

    I would honestly be surprised if they aren't working on something like that, the team is actually larger now then before launch which is rather rare for an MMO today. A short while after launch did they state that they needn't do any expansions but they have been silent about things like that the last year.

    B2P games eventually need an expansion to get in new money and for that matter, new players. Each of the campaigns and the expansion of GW did bring in a lot of new players as well as they brought back many old. But I doubt we see one at least until the 3 year birthday, while they did push out 2 campaigns for the first game in a quick row I have a feeling they can't do the same here and that we will get an announcement at least 6 moths before launch, probably 12.

  • akuma696akuma696 Member UncommonPosts: 55
    Originally posted by Loke666

    The fact that you get the trait points later is somewhat annoying in PvP but that is about it.

    You will unlock a lot of those traits as you play and the ones you feel you need that you can't or don't feel to unlock in-game can be unlocked for gold.

    The thing is that you get rewards when you level up now to compensate anyways and the newbie experience is far smoother now for none MMOers then it was at launch.

    Sure, the newbie experience could be made even smoother but I still don't think it really is something to complain about. It is far more annoying for us old players that are used to the old system then for new players (at least the ones I know who started since the change).

    The game is generally a lot better now then it was at launch and a lot of good stuff have been added even though I think that 3 new zones in 2 years is far too little, and a single dungeon path (beside the fractals which are fine).

    My wish for GW2 is a new expansion (or campaign), possibly Cantha with a new race and maybe a new class or 2. That is really what the game needs instead of more tweaking.

     

    Haven't checked if the traits are locked in pvp will have to check it (if true it would be sad that new players wont be able to experience pvp early in the game its a good place to hone ur skills :P). 

    I understand buying the traits is an option but why limit the build diversity of new players who i am sure would like to experiment instead of having to grind to unlock each trait. Yes it would affect returning vets who still want to make toons. But still the vets at least know how to do events and are at least skilled enough in dungeon runs to be able to grind the gold or skill points from champ bags

  • @akuma696;
    You don't have to do only dungeon grind. That was an example. First of all a newbie easily gain that much money with just leveling 1-80. If you don't have any gold when you're 80 and you're too scared of the dungeon runs because you're a newbie. Then just go to the eotm and do your farm there. Follow the zerg and grind 1-2 days. And bam! You have your tokens and your money. Now you can buy your first exotic set and your traits with an easy work. That's all. Seriously what is so hard with this?

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by akuma696

    Yes casual dungeon grind for 2 days would be great if you had the traits to support you when you did the run instead of bringing the team down with the limited build you have. Yes play the game by sitting in one location waiting for an event to spawn or spend an hour completing a map to unlock one trait. My main point of this post is that it really limits the options in builds the new players have which is stupid. Not only are they weaker than people who are already 80 doing the dungeon runs they are now limited in trait options. And it doesnt just cost 43 gold it requires 360 skill points also which is a pain to grind with the NPE.

    As for your part about people crying about gw2 not being like gw1 I couldn't give too craps about that part as I never played gw1 and the only thing I want from gw1 is the lore. If you dont think this makes new players have a harder time keeping up with existing players then thats your opinion

    Oh, come on. You can very easily unlock what you need for a good build fast, and even if you can't there are other ways to earn gold then just farm dungeons, like farming chests in the new zones (which is almost as fast as dungeons) or farm champs which is pretty easy and wont bring down the team the same way as you might in a dungeon.

    And you shouldn't be able to unlock every possible skill and trait in the game as soon as you hit 80, whats the fun in that? I still havn't unlocked every skill even for my main but I do have 150 free skill points, bought 100 skill points for my legendary, 50x2 for 2 mystic forge pistols and plenty more for ascended gear and upgrading resources, and I still have 100 or so skill scrolls at the bank.Skill points is incredible easy to get.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by akuma696

    Haven't checked if the traits are locked in pvp will have to check it (if true it would be sad that new players wont be able to experience pvp early in the game its a good place to hone ur skills :P). 

    I understand buying the traits is an option but why limit the build diversity of new players who i am sure would like to experiment instead of having to grind to unlock each trait. Yes it would affect returning vets who still want to make toons. But still the vets at least know how to do events and are at least skilled enough in dungeon runs to be able to grind the gold or skill points from champ bags

    They are locked in WvWvW but not the smaller PvP.  And you can try out your builds there if you want to try out certain builds or traits withou bother to unlock them. But it really is only a problem for the last tier of traits, the others are really fast to unlock in the game.

    I have a few alts using the new system.

    And as I said before, it is far from perfect but the noob experience is far better now then when I started to play in the beta or for that matter at launch. Many other games have a far greater grind to get all options, just try EQ 1 or 2, there you will spend many times as much to max out the AA.

    ANET should be working on new content instead of putting work into changing this all over again.

  • gw2foolgw2fool Member UncommonPosts: 164
    For some weird reason or another, anet has been trying to reduce its player base for some time now. Starting with making champs in to vets. Reworking dungeons so that we only do one path per day. Removing traits so you only get them if you want to waste all that extra time doing the events (or buy them) is just another in their weird idea on how to make the game better. If players are playing some specific aspect of a game then removing is it pathetic and will only lead to less players playing the game. It is getting to the point that some of these events are not soloable and there are no other players available to help so players end up not bothering to get the traits that are required to play other parts of the game, like wvw and pvp etc!
  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    Originally posted by Nepheth

    What? 43 gold is casually dungeon grind for 2 days. That's all. Is this hard for the newbies? Really? And on top of that you don't have to buy any trait. Just go and do what you have to do. Is it really that hard to just complate an event from a certain area etc? Just play your game. You will unlock all the traits when you hit 80. Seriously you people sometimes don't know what to complain and just cry about random nonsense.

    And before the new trait system most of the players cried about why we don't have any skill progress like Guild Wars has. Than ArenaNet gave you your progress. And now players cry about it. Really? That's not something to cry about. Actually this is the first time I see someone don't like it. Only bad thing about this system(which I don't think it is that bad.) is that ArenaNet reduced the trait points. That's understandable. Some people didn't like it. But again nothing wrong with the progress system. Which I think awsome when you think about the future when they include new traits like they did in the first future patch with new challenges that you have to do to gain them.

    Seriously?  You're viewing this from a veteran's point of view.  You already know how to get 43g.  The newbie doesn't.  Not only do you need gold, but you need skill points too, which the new player will not have.

    Traits are vital mechanics while leveling or when reaching level 80.  These new players will not have any traits to test out , when they go into dungeons, which makes it even worse for PUGs.

    It's easy to say to just go out and complete the associated event with the unlock.  It's another thing to actually try to get them due to bugs, pre-events which unlock the chain events, etc.  This is just too overwhelming for a new player.  They are barely getting used to the zones and their class skills.

    I don't see how you can say, "Actually this is the first time I see someone don't like it".. 

    This thread will show you just how many people despise this trait system. 

    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Game-Updates-Traits/first

    There are many constructive posts in that thread which lists the major flaws of this new system.  It isn't just someone complaining because they felt like it.  It's because there are real issues with the trait system.

    I seriously don't see how anyone could defend this new system.  It effectively killed leveling alts.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,065
    Originally posted by observer

    I seriously don't see how anyone could defend this new system.  It effectively killed leveling alts.

    I don't really care for this system but I don't really care for this "progression" and "feeling stronger" business to start with. Neither did I care for the skill collecting in GW1.

    But saying this system kills alt leveling is silly.

    All you need to spank 95% content of the open world is a sigil of bloodlust, proper stats combination and the ability to dodge.

    Additionally there is no reason to unlock all the traits (other then completionist, buy hey, the activities to unlock traits fall in the completionist alley anyway).  So those 43g are in fact 5g or less.

     

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • marcustmarcust Member UncommonPosts: 495

    This thread is a reflection on how easy-mode people want everything.

    Its kinda sad.

     

    I like it the way it is.

    I wonder how the OP would have gone playing Lineage2.

    Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76)
    Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,797

    Not a big fan of the new system but I did make a new char and only unlocked traits by playing the events etc.

    Stuff such as killing the wurm below the priory headquarters - slight waste of time but that's what gaming is.

     

    If you like it fast: Buying a skill costs you as much money as chopping down 3 trees. Go figure.

    Harbinger of Fools
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,551

    Good thread, and thx for the link observer.

    Since I don't play (and don't even plan to, except maybe if SAB would be a permanent addition :) ), what's your summary, is it good for a total newbie in the current state, or not so much?

    See, I was asked by a buddy about GW2 (now with the sale and everything) and since I don't play I could only say the basic stuff, like good looks, can be played as solo, casually too, and not hard or grindy so good for a starter. Then I see this thread, 2 days later :) hope I wasn't give him a bad advice and it's not too grindy...

     

    (I mean, with lines like "Many other games have a far greater grind to get all options, just try EQ 1 or 2" or "I wonder how the OP would have gone playing Lineage2." well, this buddy avoided those for a reason. He just want some online fun, wandering around, etc. That, and an action-ish combat. Since Neverwinter could be way too grindy for his taste, and Tera is crap, I pointed at GW2 because it's a one-time purchase and a leisure ride. At least it was, when I dabbled with it for a bit, in the past.)

  • saurus123saurus123 Member UncommonPosts: 674

    i dunno why ppl complain about it

    before when you reach lvl 30 you had all triats unlocked and you didnt felt the character progression

    now with every lvl your character is getting stronger

     

    i leveld few alts with this system and its way better than the old one

  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,505

    Been a while since I leveled a new character (Not playing the game anymore) but I know for sure that sum of money is nothing.

    Do some world boss events, you are bound to get a good drop and sell it in auction. Also last time I played, the white named equipments sold quite nicely in auction to crafters.


  • GuyClinchGuyClinch Member CommonPosts: 485
    Not many of the traits you have to unlock are actually used in the meta builds - and the events to unlock them are generally pretty easy. This thread is much ado about nothing - with a few haters piling on. New trait system is fine. The best features of the feature pack - free repairs and the fact you can redo your traits on the fly.  This game is easier on new players then ever before - and it already was ridiculously easy. Its the best game for alts BTW - 10 minutes after you level you can be fully kitted out in exotics.
  • thekid1thekid1 Member UncommonPosts: 789
    Originally posted by Nepheth

    @akuma696;
    You don't have to do only dungeon grind. That was an example. First of all a newbie easily gain that much money with just leveling 1-80. If you don't have any gold when you're 80 and you're too scared of the dungeon runs because you're a newbie. Then just go to the eotm and do your farm there. Follow the zerg and grind 1-2 days. And bam! You have your tokens and your money. Now you can buy your first exotic set and your traits with an easy work. That's all. Seriously what is so hard with this?

    I haven't played in two years and just started again. I'm level 56 but only have 4 gold.

    The last time I tried a dungeon was two years ago and I did not like it. The players left after the first few enemies because we kept getting stomped.

    Could you tell me what eotm is?

  • MalevilMalevil Member Posts: 468
    Originally posted by akuma696
     So newbies beware you will have to grind just to be able to test builds in this game or pay a shit load of gold xD and yes people now have more reasons to hate you newbies cause u wont have the right trait builds for dungeon runs

     

    This is really absurd. Doing some kind of objective in game to unlock skill  considered grind today ...

  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967

    It's kind of ironic to see people talking about how people want things "easy mode" when their characters benefited from this "easy mode" already.

     

    "Not my problem, already grandfathered in... stop whining" <- LOL

    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • MeowheadMeowhead Member UncommonPosts: 3,716
    Originally posted by FlyByKnight

    It's kind of ironic to see people talking about how people want things "easy mode" when their characters benefited from this "easy mode" already.

     

    "Not my problem, already grandfathered in... stop whining" <- LOL

    Eh.  I got 5 of my 12 level 80s to 80 after the patch.

    Some of them I don't even play much, or mostly only use in pvp, so they're not even fully traited, but it's not because it's too hard or expensive, it's because you don't NEED most of the traits, and I am lazy. <.<  It only costs 43 gold and 360 skill points if you choose to =buy= all the traits, and not unlock any of them using the trait system.  And the vast majority of that cost is weighted for the final tier of traits you can't even use until you're 80.

    All the traits are free (For an effective cost of: 0 gold and 0 skill points) if you choose to unlock them by doing content in the game.  To get all the lower level traits is incredibly cheap (Far less than 43 gold gold and 360 skill points), and to only buy the ones you need for a best in game build is around 5 gold and 30 skill points (Which is basically nothing by the time you're level 80, which is the level you need to be in order to BUY all the expensive traits in the first place)

    I am not speaking from 'Gosh I think it's this way', I have 22 characters, and I've put good builds on all of them. 

    So to answer your complaints, actual cost to get all the traits:  0 gold, 0 skill points  (If you do all the content)

    Few gold, double digits in skill points, just to flat out buy the traits you need for a best in game build, which you can only do at 80.

    It's only 43 gold and 360 skill points if you 1.  Do 0 content and 2.  Want every single trait even ones you most probably won't be using.  Basically for people who both want to not play the game and want to experiment with their build, which seems like an odd combination, especially for somebody who is new to the game.  (Not wanting to play the game's content seems strange on somebody who just bought the game)

    edit:  Oh yeah.  And for experimenting or if you just like to do structured pvp, all the traits are already unlocked when you're pvping except for 6 (One per trait line), and you can easily check out what a build would be like against some of the NPCs in the mists.  Enough to satisfy your curiosity about experimenting and possible build combinations, for most purposes.

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