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[Column] Guild Wars 2: Give Me Dungeons!
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
There are many parts of the MMO experience, but perhaps one of the most important is the dungeon. Guild Wars 2 launched with some dungeons that not only helped tell a story, but also offered another reason for players to unite for a single cause. Dungeons were also exciting parts of the Living World story, taking dungeon design to a whole new level. Even with these great achievements, ArenaNet has decided to pull focus away from dungeons, confusing many of its players about the future of the game.
Read more of David North's Guild Wars 2: Give Me Dungeons!
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Finding dungeons is a staple experience in the RPG genre.
Comments
I'm one dissapointed about the lack of new dungeons... but in a way I understand why they haven't done them as well.
The last real dungeon added to the game outside of fractals is the aetherblade path... and IMHO it's one of the best dungeons in the game. Most other dungeons are rather simple, run in in berserker gear (the ones that outputs the most damage) kill or skip whatever is in your patch, kill the boss which lots of them are either just spank them until they die, or have mechanics that can be ignored or skipped to turn them into spank fights. The aetherblade path is different, you can't just rush it, bosses have mechanics you need to understand, there are areas where you have to escort NPCs, others where you have to pull carefully before a boss, and so on.
What was the result?... creating this new path was a major undertaking based on what they've said.... and it's one of the least played as well. Getting a group on the LFG tool for the aetherblade patch can take over an hour (last time I tried, logged off and couldn't find a group), getting one for the simpler and quicker dungeons usually doesn't take more than 10 minutes, and it's because groups fill so fast you can't click on "join" fast enough. Main complains... that it was too hard, too many mechanics to learn, and PUGs usually fall apart mid way because of them. Just like with the open world bosses, you have people complaining that there's not enough challenging content, and when one is released, then the complains are that it's too hard.
What can men do against such reckless hate?
"It’s sad that new dungeons aren’t in the works (at least to our knowledge), but of course this could all be info given to us because ArenaNet, can’t, and or won’t communicate with us about the actual future of this game. The only thing we’ve been told is that Living World updates will happen."
Before launch, the team that was running ANET was brilliant at communication. That team no longer exists. What is left at ANET is a highly dysfunctional, non-community based managerial team that hides behind a self-imposed policy of silence. They have been heavily lambasted for their non-communication stance for well over a year, but even more so since last spring when it seemed to kick into over-drive. Despite continued criticism on various fronts, including ignoring several multi-thousand post feedback threads from their paying customers, ANET lumbers on in directions that simply perplex the players.
Bottom line: ANET's sole focus is the Living Story and their Gem Store. They aren't budging on that, so if you want more from a game then you'll have to do like other people have and simply move on to another developer.
We all know that the GW2 dungeon concept is flawed.
We don't need an "article" to hyperbolize that which is actual contradiction of co-op instances, where everyone just zergs mobs and smashes buttons without any clear strategy. The lack of predefined roles makes this even worse, as it's every man for himself, in terms of survivability.
What GW2 should stick to is creating new map concepts that worked really well, maps like Silverwastes for example, where i am actually able to support via PvE Boons/Healing.
"I could see giving up on dungeons if the players were vocally negative towards them, but that’s the exact opposite of reality. A lot of players really enjoyed the dungeons."
What? Have you actually paid attention to the Guild Wars 2 community at any point? Guild Wars 2's dungeons (Fractals aside) have been continually blasted as some of the worst in the genre, and, as a fan of the game, I'm inclined to freaking agree. Guild Wars 2's dungeons are a mess - ruined by a multitude of embarassing, longtime bugs, exploits, sections that are skipped because of their complete lack of time-to-reward ratios, faceroll encounters, and "dps-test" encounters that make Berserker gear the universal best set.
And that's not even touching on the single most prevalent issue that dungeons face right now - the issue that, even if there were no other issues, would single-handedly make Guild Wars 2's dungeons an embarassment to the rest of the game and to the genre as a whole. I am, of course, referring to stacking. Most of the game's dungeon bosses and encounters are trivialized by this form of play, and it's actually made dungeon runs so easy and efficient that standard runs have become the exception - not the norm.
You can solo many dungeons, you can duo even more, and first of all the parties in GW2 is composed of 5 players not 6. Not sure what game you have played;)
I would hate to see ANET remove the only reason left to communicate. play together and actually communicate with each other. Does GW2 really need more solo content? Are you for real? What it needs is incentive to play good, if you do X dungeon in X time. no deaths or whatever. It does not need more solo content, the whole world is that already.
They should introduce achievements, more rewards for doing dungeons with less than five people, doing it fast, flawless etc. That alone would revitalize the dungeon experience. One thing we sure do not need is more face roll solo PvE.
Collections already do that to a degree (despite their rewards being a joke for the amount of effort put into them), though I definitely agree with the need for more dungeon-based achievements. This alone, however, would not revitalize the dungeon experience in the long term. It would create a short-term rewards rush to get the achievements, and this might last for a few months, but the severe flaws of the dungeon experience and the lack of new dungeon content would cause this wave of new/returned dungeon players to subside (for the most part) again.
For me fractals killed the dungeons when I played.
Now there's way to join other people willing to do the normal dungeons but before all anyone was doing was waiting in the capital shouting for x part fractal.
Very fun.
More dungeons for GW2? Why on earth would you want more? Their dungeons are some of the worst to be found in an MMO.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
I quit the game because of lack of development and focus on other areas of the game, such as dungeons. Their "new content" development focus is 110% on living story and 0% on other things such as expanding normal open world content (dynamic events and rewards/encouragement for playing in the open world), dungeons, legendary acquisition, personal story, new classes and races...etc.
All living story and nothing else? Nope. I downloaded it a month ago or so and tried it out again...but its much of the same. 110% living story, and the rest of the game is THE EXACT SAME as it was 2 years ago. I took my credit card elsewhere.
I think there's something fundamentally flawed with how they approach game development at this point. MMO after MMO can add raids and dungeons at a much quicker pace and in better quality. ArenaNet has blown off both of their feet without having instances or a trinity. There's very little coordination in any fight and dungeons have notoriously been completed using exploits.
The whole problem with Tequatl is the lag. You can't plan around it - people just show up an die en masse.
That's the point I came to about 8 months ago. I realized no matter how much myself and others complained and offered well articulated feedback. The team that made the series so beloved has largely departed, and took the magic of the game with them. Not a damn thing will bring me back at this point, they soured it that much.
That was no what I meant. Lets say you duo a dungeon flawless. That should reward more than doing the dungeon with five people. Put in timers, full clears ++ and reward accordingly.
Playing good should be rewarded, as is all you can do if you play fast and good is to do all the fast paths of each dungeon and you have no incentive to do harder paths.
Why bother do dungeons when you can farm close to 20 gold in an hour from just mobs? I am not saying dungeons should be on that level. It is fine as is. But put in more tiers of completing the dungeons with more rewards if you play good, clear it, do not die etc etc.
Add leader boards for fastests full clears, speed runs etc.
One time achievements for dungeons will not do a thing for the game as you said. Friendly competition, leaderboards for different "achievements" however will do.
Exactly why I do not mind the new living story episodes. I can have a lot of fun killing monsters, collecting loots, participate in on going events, kill bosses, collect more loots and all within an hour! Plus, I can leave anytime or just go idle for a while without worrying about letting ppl down by leaving a dungeon mid game. One main reason I do not play in dungeons any more is that they require time, and time is what I do not have now a days.
So yeah, I really don't mind the new living story episodes. They are awesome in my opinion.
1. Dungeons in GW2 are not worse or better than other MMOs, its same crap as any other MMO - find most efficient way/explit/skip - repeat ad nauseaum. Good riddance.
2. Article is a joke for saying "properly rewarding dungeons" lawl, no, gear with higher stats is NOT "properly rewarding dungeons", in fact GW2 IS properly rewarding dungeons
3. They made new dungeon and nobody runs it. It was a test, its most challenging and nobody wants to play it. So why the f**k would they waste resources on more of dungeon crap? So people that dont play GW2 at all (like on this site) can whine more about content they do not play (mopst of the people that responded didnt even touch GW2, the way they write, or are such players that its best they do stay away form GW2)
4. Whoever mentioned stacking - it requires more teamwork and coordination than any trinity dungeon in any trinity game. Trinity is simpletons combat (paired with "uber gear"), sorry dudes. Not everyone wants simpletons combat that you can do while watching TV.
Dungeon rewards became irrelevant when crafted exotics became easier to make. That's what ultimately killed any kind of progression in GW2. It was just easier and faster to craft a full exotic set without any effort. The dungeon ended up becoming gold farm runs, which is a shame, because those dungeons are really amazing in design.
No. It doesn't require more skill and coordination than a trinity dungeon. And on that note, I never said I wanted a trinity mechanic either. What I want is for the dungeon content to properly bring out the merits of the game's combat system instead of ignoring them. I want the game's highly-mobile combat to be highlighted, not ignored. I want positioning on and of AoE support skills to be a thing, not an automatic - because the skill-based factor of both aspects (moving onto and targeting) these skills becomes a non-thing when everyone is guaranteed to benefit from all of them at all times. I want to see gameplay at work and not ruined by the way the game's camera treats a player who is humping the corner with his team.
The game has a fantastic combat system, but stacking and zerg situations often undermine it and make it pointless.
And before you open your mouth and utter something stupid like "you mean you want everyone to kite at range," put more depth into the thought. What any non-stacking proponent wants is not perma-ranged combat (which is still more fun and skill intensive than stacking), but rather encounters that encourage and require adaptation and proper use of positioning. Melee and range should both be highlighted, as should swapping between them. Boon removal and condition removal should be highlighted - particularly seeing as how they are some of the only relevant strengths the Necromancer has. Control effects should actually have a use. Positioning of support skills and combo fields should be a decision, as stated earlier.
Bosses and mobs should actively kite and chase using the same mobile attacks, and they should do enough AoE damage to punish stacking. And no, that won't make dungeon content too difficult, because most of the game's dungeon paths are currently far, far too easy.
I totally agree on the idea of being able to play solo. You can't always find other players that want to do these things and having a solo option would be a way around this!
Some of the open world and living story could also be made a little more solo friendly as well.
I totally agree with this.
With mechanics like these full zerker speed players would get squashed and they'd have to rethink their strategy.
Of course, I don't mind zerker players, I just hate the fact that it's required in every single dungeon that EVERYONE be zerker.
Giving more room for support (healing, condi applying/removal, boons) players to have a place in dungeons would make things more interesting to me, since that is the role I like to play in most MMOs I play.