SoE's F2P is not really F2P. Its more like a really long trial. If you wana join the end game community you really need to sub. They do a really good job of balancing letting players know if the game is worth their money and making sure the end game is not filled with pain in the but leaches. Their F2P model IMO is something more MMOs need to pick up.
For me they are making a mistake, there's not one F2P game out there that kept me playing longer than a month. If we count GW2 it be 3 months I think.
Not one of them have done it right for me. Not one of them has got me as far as paying a dime for them. While I have been paying subs for games I was not playing/on a break. So no it just doesn't work on me and by that record I'm quite sure it won't work with EQN for me either.
It's actually one of the reasons that I have a lot less interest in this genre the past years. Subs turning into F2P doesn't help either because those hybrid systems are even more of a mess than a F2P game from the start.
Will it work in the grand scheme... time will tell. Some games fair better under F2P than others. I think it's actually the same as sub games. Some will do good and most others get by. The payment model is not the holy grail, in the end it's what kind of product you deliver.
I would even argue it's harder to make a succesful F2P game than a sub based one, since you are introducing yet another big system that you need to have just right for the broad audience to accept. And we've seen in the past games doing less because one of the systems wasn't as great.
Ok, ok, ok. So does anyone have concrete info on the monetization model? Or are we just throwing around assumptions?
Remember that SOE has their All Access Pass which is, actually, a really, really good deal. It's almost something that I'd be willing to invest in as a secondary to my Primary (WoW) subscription just because it gives me so much access. There just, really, hasn't been anything that compelling in their portfolio that I'd be interested in investing that much in. However, EQN and H1Z1 could both go a long way to bolstering that portfolio and if they abandoned their All Access Pass completely with it, the AAP could just die.
That being said, you can't really get away from some sort of F2P offering, since it'll be released onto console. I mean the argument that console gamers aren't used to a sub is slowly becoming passe, but it is still the case, somewhat. EQN could be the title they need to start converting their F2P crowd, if, IF! They can make it compelling enough to do so.
Ok, ok, ok. So does anyone have concrete info on the monetization model? Or are we just throwing around assumptions?
Remember that SOE has their All Access Pass which is, actually, a really, really good deal. It's almost something that I'd be willing to invest in as a secondary to my Primary (WoW) subscription just because it gives me so much access. There just, really, hasn't been anything that compelling in their portfolio that I'd be interested in investing that much in. However, EQN and H1Z1 could both go a long way to bolstering that portfolio and if they abandoned their All Access Pass completely with it, the AAP could just die.
That being said, you can't really get away from some sort of F2P offering, since it'll be released onto console. I mean the argument that console gamers aren't used to a sub is slowly becoming passe, but it is still the case, somewhat. EQN could be the title they need to start converting their F2P crowd, if, IF! They can make it compelling enough to do so.
Sure, anyone that plays or played SoE F2P games. They are all the same, they hinder your skills and spells that at low levels dont mean much. Unless you sub the handcuffs are not removed. Subbing helps you level faster but when you get to end game trying to raid or do any end game content teamed makes you about 25% less effective in a team. Your DPS and healing are both effected. So you want to join the end game community you really need to sub as no one wants you in their teams.
Sure, anyone that plays or played SoE F2P games. They are all the same, they hinder your skills and spells that at low levels dont mean much. Unless you sub the handcuffs are not removed.
when SOE introduced f2p that was true
but they have relaxed those restrictions
there are no longer any skill or gear restrictions in EQ1 or EQ2
Sure, anyone that plays or played SoE F2P games. They are all the same, they hinder your skills and spells that at low levels dont mean much. Unless you sub the handcuffs are not removed.
when SOE introduced f2p that was true
but they have relaxed those restrictions
there are no longer any skill or gear restrictions in EQ1 or EQ2
Thats not true unless they changed that in the last 2 weeks as I just quit EQ2 and the restrictions were in then. When I logged in when my sub expired I got a pop up message my spells were lowered in skill.
there are no longer any skill or gear restrictions in EQ1 or EQ2
Thats not true unless they changed that in the last 2 weeks as I just quit EQ2 and the restrictions were in then. When I logged in when my sub expired I got a pop up message my spells were lowered in skill.
the EQ2 spell change went in effect last month, October 7th
I just guessing that developers are afraid their games will be like ghost towns and month or 2 after release and F2P is probably the best way they can make their money back in a shorter duration instead of having a monthly charge.
I am not knocking either game since I played them both, but look are Wildstar and look what happened with a monthly fee and look what happened to ArcheAge even with a F2P setup, both games skiddish now.
Originally posted by bcbully I can't help but to feel they are making a mistake, a monumental mistake. On this site over the past couple months we've seen posters say they've had enough of cash shops and cash to gold conversion systems. Even Bill Murphy while reviewing Arche Age asked why not have a premium server? Within the mmorpg genre, I think free to play has ran it's course. What do you guys think? I'm really looking forward to EQN, but for me it already has 2 strikes against it with the art style and the free to play monetization model.
I would say it is also a mistake....although due more.....matured reasons.
If you consider the budget is around 100M, imagine how large F2P playerbase would need to be to generate desired revenue. It isn't realistic in terms of costs and market size.
There will be lots and lots of people willing to pay to access the game. It really is missed opportunity. Releasing as P2P and changing to F2P later on is imo still the best model, everyone is happy.
Maybe it will be P2P with a trial, just SOE call it F2P as a part of the marketing...
there are no longer any skill or gear restrictions in EQ1 or EQ2
Thats not true unless they changed that in the last 2 weeks as I just quit EQ2 and the restrictions were in then. When I logged in when my sub expired I got a pop up message my spells were lowered in skill.
the EQ2 spell change went in effect last month, October 7th
Grandmaster spells are now available from crafting or via the spell upgrade (Research) tab in your Knowledge Book.
Free players can now scribe and research spells up to the Master level.
Using research tab would take a year or two to get your main spells/skills up in level to play end game. By the time they did that a new expansion would be out and you would need to start over as they are adding another level to spells/skills with the new expansion. Who is gona stick around for a year + upgrading you skills/spells to try and join end game? Again, you wana join end game you need to sub.
Grandmaster spells are now available from crafting or via the spell upgrade (Research) tab in your Knowledge Book.
Free players can now scribe and research spells up to the Master level.
Using research tab would take a year or two to get your main spells/skills up in level to play end game. By the time they did that a new expansion would be out and you would need to start over as they are adding another level to spells/skills with the new expansion. Who is gona stick around for a year + upgrading you skills/spells to try and join end game? Again, you wana join end game you need to sub.
both subs and ftp alike have the same restrictions for researching spells beneath Grandmaster
no one could ever research Grandmaster spells until last month - a new feature for subs
regarding your 25% estimation of skill loss:
Currently Expert to Master is approx 14% to the base value, while Master to Grandmaster is only 3% to the base value.
Grandmaster spells are now available from crafting or via the spell upgrade (Research) tab in your Knowledge Book.
Free players can now scribe and research spells up to the Master level.
Using research tab would take a year or two to get your main spells/skills up in level to play end game. By the time they did that a new expansion would be out and you would need to start over as they are adding another level to spells/skills with the new expansion. Who is gona stick around for a year + upgrading you skills/spells to try and join end game? Again, you wana join end game you need to sub.
both subs and ftp alike have the same restrictions for researching spells beneath Grandmaster
no one could ever research Grandmaster spells until last month - a new feature for subs
regarding your 25% estimation of skill loss:
Currently Expert to Master is approx 14% to the base value, while Master to Grandmaster is only 3% to the base value.
We all know what 3% means in a MMO. Again, you wana join the end game community, you need to sub. Fact is, they dont make F2P road easy. The time invested into making a F2P account worth using, very few people would put in that time. Even then, the advantage sub players get in extra EXP and loot makes not subbing even more of a pain. F2P in SoE is not like most F2P games. Most players that join the end game community sub. SoE has made a great balance of letting people try the game and see if its worth the 15 bucks a month. I would pay 15 bucks a month to be 17% more powerful now!!!!
The only mistake they are making is not starting as p2p with the intention of swapping to f2p later.
If you do that it allows you to charge £60 upfront, get store recognition and you can even run as a p2p with a cash shop. Once profits drop you can "relaunch" as f2p. This is the industry standard for AAA titles right now, launch as p2p wait 1-2 years and swap over.
Also even though players will say they will quit if their game swaps to f2p, they very rarely ever follow though with that threat since they have so much time invested.
as a raider, i've had peers that subbed through Krono
SOE has 2 ways to sub to EQ2, regular all access
or pay with ingame gold for Krono (similar to EVE's PLEX) - a valid form of free to play
Ya if you dont sub with RL money, your only real option is Krono. My server they sell for about 3k plat. Not an option a casual gamer could do easy. But that is a real option to join the end game community. I have boosted my account a few times selling Kronos. I love SoE for doing this.
For me, EQN as F2P is a huge mistake, because I won't play it. The direction of the game wasn't overly appealing to me after we learned more about it, but I could see myself giving it a shot, but definitely not with a F2P model. I have attempted several F2P games and games that went F2P, also those with hybrid models. I just can't do it again, too many pay walls. The hybrids are more likable, but the crowd that these F2P models bring in along with the botters and hackers, it's just atrocious. Yes, I know there are botters and hackers in every game, but it's far worse in F2P models.
EQN is a definite no for me.
For SOE, F2P could be huge for them, I can admit that.
They will probably have a subscription with certain perks for subscribing and a f2p option. I think that's what many of their games have. I know EQ 2 had it and Vanguard had it.
Most likely, but the unfortunate truth is that the gameplay will undoubtedly be designed with F2P addiction mechanics and that for me is the biggest and deadliest turn-off. Luckily, I have FFXIV and ESO to keep me occupied at present, but my days in the genre are probably numbered thanks to that obnoxious business model. My concern has never been about how expensive F2P games can be, it's how they are designed to be god awful treadmills that make P2P game design seem tame in comparison.
Grandmaster spells are now available from crafting or via the spell upgrade (Research) tab in your Knowledge Book.
Free players can now scribe and research spells up to the Master level.
Using research tab would take a year or two to get your main spells/skills up in level to play end game. By the time they did that a new expansion would be out and you would need to start over as they are adding another level to spells/skills with the new expansion. Who is gona stick around for a year + upgrading you skills/spells to try and join end game? Again, you wana join end game you need to sub.
both subs and ftp alike have the same restrictions for researching spells beneath Grandmaster
no one could ever research Grandmaster spells until last month - a new feature for subs
regarding your 25% estimation of skill loss:
Currently Expert to Master is approx 14% to the base value, while Master to Grandmaster is only 3% to the base value.
We all know what 3% means in a MMO. Again, you wana join the end game community, you need to sub. Fact is, they dont make F2P road easy. The time invested into making a F2P account worth using, very few people would put in that time. Even then, the advantage sub players get in extra EXP and loot makes not subbing even more of a pain. F2P in SoE is not like most F2P games. Most players that join the end game community sub. SoE has made a great balance of letting people try the game and see if its worth the 15 bucks a month. I would pay 15 bucks a month to be 17% more powerful now!!!!
F2P Restrictions on WoW are even worse. You can't even level past 20
not including wow here as really its the anomaly in the MMO genre - every single sub based MMO that converts to f2p has a huge boost in revenue and active players
Grandmaster spells are now available from crafting or via the spell upgrade (Research) tab in your Knowledge Book.
Free players can now scribe and research spells up to the Master level.
Using research tab would take a year or two to get your main spells/skills up in level to play end game. By the time they did that a new expansion would be out and you would need to start over as they are adding another level to spells/skills with the new expansion. Who is gona stick around for a year + upgrading you skills/spells to try and join end game? Again, you wana join end game you need to sub.
both subs and ftp alike have the same restrictions for researching spells beneath Grandmaster
no one could ever research Grandmaster spells until last month - a new feature for subs
regarding your 25% estimation of skill loss:
Currently Expert to Master is approx 14% to the base value, while Master to Grandmaster is only 3% to the base value.
We all know what 3% means in a MMO. Again, you wana join the end game community, you need to sub. Fact is, they dont make F2P road easy. The time invested into making a F2P account worth using, very few people would put in that time. Even then, the advantage sub players get in extra EXP and loot makes not subbing even more of a pain. F2P in SoE is not like most F2P games. Most players that join the end game community sub. SoE has made a great balance of letting people try the game and see if its worth the 15 bucks a month. I would pay 15 bucks a month to be 17% more powerful now!!!!
F2P Restrictions on WoW are even worse. You can't even level past 20
You read me wrong. I love the restrictions that get people to Sub. SoE F2P system lets you try all of the game for free. When you are ready to join the end game community, you sub. This keeps a flow of new gamers trying your game and keeps the end game clear of leachers that really give nothing to the community. Every MMO should pick up this model.
I can't help but to feel they are making a mistake, a monumental mistake.
On this site over the past couple months we've seen posters say they've had enough of cash shops and cash to gold conversion systems. Even Bill Murphy while reviewing Arche Age asked why not have a premium server? Within the mmorpg genre, I think free to play has ran it's course.
What do you guys think? I'm really looking forward to EQN, but for me it already has 2 strikes against it with the art style and the free to play monetization model.
See that colossal flaming messed call Archeage? That's what EQN is going to end up like with SOE's infinite wisdom in models.
And just replace TRION with SOE & John Smedley and you have a true recipe for disaster.
I can't help but to feel they are making a mistake, a monumental mistake.
On this site over the past couple months we've seen posters say they've had enough of cash shops and cash to gold conversion systems. Even Bill Murphy while reviewing Arche Age asked why not have a premium server? Within the mmorpg genre, I think free to play has ran it's course.
What do you guys think? I'm really looking forward to EQN, but for me it already has 2 strikes against it with the art style and the free to play monetization model.
See that colossal flaming messed call Archeage? That's what EQN is going to end up like with SOE's infinite wisdom in models.
And just replace TRION with SOE & John Smedley and you have a true recipe for disaster.
None of SOE's current titles are a mess like AA. Why would all of a sudden they will mess EQN up?
Moreover EQN isn't a open world full loot PVP MMO. And in a PVE game you can get away with a lot in terms of cash shop.
What you see in EQ2 is what you will see in EQN with implementation of cash shop.
Hm guess I'm in the middle of all this. It would've been so nice if all game could simply be B2P. Leave the F2P to mobile and browser games and send P2P into the past. Expansion drop ins every 6-12 months and we're golden. P2P is so ridiculous by now people don't even try to make server emulators for those games (unlike the early days of Lineage 2 and WoW).
And believe me its not because those games use some "unseen" encryption or something. Its because the people who actually can do that sort of thing don't bother because those P2P games offer nothing that would hold a gamer's interest for long.
I'm very happy with my recent Dragon Age: Inquisition purchase, playing the multiplayer with the girlfriend, its tons of fun. So much fun that im even starting to think if we really need a MMO. SP games grow massive in size (world, environment) and with proper co op system you can always play with your friends, kinda like what the new trend of "megaservers" are doing. And the graphics are way beyond anything a MMO can bring in the next 10 years.
F2P Restrictions on WoW are even worse. You can't even level past 20
You read me wrong. I love the restrictions that get people to Sub. SoE F2P system lets you try all of the game for free. When you are ready to join the end game community, you sub. This keeps a flow of new gamers trying your game and keeps the end game clear of leachers that really give nothing to the community. Every MMO should pick up this model.
People sub to EQ2 for more reasons than raiding. There are a lot of benefits to the subscription. When I sub to EQ2 it's nothing to do with end game raiding. I don't raid anymore.
The restrictions also don't have much to do with me subscribing. I can play the game without a sub just fine. I subscribe for the buffs, SC, and benefits now to all access. It's a nice package with decent perks. It's the same for me with Tera, LotRO, and a couple other games. Subs aren't a problem. It's when the subs are mandatory and gate access that I have a problem with the game.
I agree. I believe that if WoW were to be released today, even if it had an update graphics engine, it would have a really tough time with a P2P model. There's almost a try-before-you-buy mentality out there now. That's great, though, it means variety and more intelligent consumers because you're not just sitting there, consumed with one game.
Comments
For me they are making a mistake, there's not one F2P game out there that kept me playing longer than a month. If we count GW2 it be 3 months I think.
Not one of them have done it right for me. Not one of them has got me as far as paying a dime for them. While I have been paying subs for games I was not playing/on a break. So no it just doesn't work on me and by that record I'm quite sure it won't work with EQN for me either.
It's actually one of the reasons that I have a lot less interest in this genre the past years. Subs turning into F2P doesn't help either because those hybrid systems are even more of a mess than a F2P game from the start.
Will it work in the grand scheme... time will tell. Some games fair better under F2P than others. I think it's actually the same as sub games. Some will do good and most others get by. The payment model is not the holy grail, in the end it's what kind of product you deliver.
I would even argue it's harder to make a succesful F2P game than a sub based one, since you are introducing yet another big system that you need to have just right for the broad audience to accept. And we've seen in the past games doing less because one of the systems wasn't as great.
Ok, ok, ok. So does anyone have concrete info on the monetization model? Or are we just throwing around assumptions?
Remember that SOE has their All Access Pass which is, actually, a really, really good deal. It's almost something that I'd be willing to invest in as a secondary to my Primary (WoW) subscription just because it gives me so much access. There just, really, hasn't been anything that compelling in their portfolio that I'd be interested in investing that much in. However, EQN and H1Z1 could both go a long way to bolstering that portfolio and if they abandoned their All Access Pass completely with it, the AAP could just die.
That being said, you can't really get away from some sort of F2P offering, since it'll be released onto console. I mean the argument that console gamers aren't used to a sub is slowly becoming passe, but it is still the case, somewhat. EQN could be the title they need to start converting their F2P crowd, if, IF! They can make it compelling enough to do so.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Sure, anyone that plays or played SoE F2P games. They are all the same, they hinder your skills and spells that at low levels dont mean much. Unless you sub the handcuffs are not removed. Subbing helps you level faster but when you get to end game trying to raid or do any end game content teamed makes you about 25% less effective in a team. Your DPS and healing are both effected. So you want to join the end game community you really need to sub as no one wants you in their teams.
when SOE introduced f2p that was true
but they have relaxed those restrictions
there are no longer any skill or gear restrictions in EQ1 or EQ2
EQ2 fan sites
Thats not true unless they changed that in the last 2 weeks as I just quit EQ2 and the restrictions were in then. When I logged in when my sub expired I got a pop up message my spells were lowered in skill.
the EQ2 spell change went in effect last month, October 7th
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/422578/EQ2-enhancements-for-both-ftp-and-subs.html
EQ2 fan sites
I just guessing that developers are afraid their games will be like ghost towns and month or 2 after release and F2P is probably the best way they can make their money back in a shorter duration instead of having a monthly charge.
I am not knocking either game since I played them both, but look are Wildstar and look what happened with a monthly fee and look what happened to ArcheAge even with a F2P setup, both games skiddish now.
I would say it is also a mistake....although due more.....matured reasons.
If you consider the budget is around 100M, imagine how large F2P playerbase would need to be to generate desired revenue. It isn't realistic in terms of costs and market size.
There will be lots and lots of people willing to pay to access the game. It really is missed opportunity. Releasing as P2P and changing to F2P later on is imo still the best model, everyone is happy.
Maybe it will be P2P with a trial, just SOE call it F2P as a part of the marketing...
LOL here is the info....
both subs and ftp alike have the same restrictions for researching spells beneath Grandmaster
no one could ever research Grandmaster spells until last month - a new feature for subs
regarding your 25% estimation of skill loss:
Currently Expert to Master is approx 14% to the base value, while Master to Grandmaster is only 3% to the base value.
EQ2 fan sites
We all know what 3% means in a MMO. Again, you wana join the end game community, you need to sub. Fact is, they dont make F2P road easy. The time invested into making a F2P account worth using, very few people would put in that time. Even then, the advantage sub players get in extra EXP and loot makes not subbing even more of a pain. F2P in SoE is not like most F2P games. Most players that join the end game community sub. SoE has made a great balance of letting people try the game and see if its worth the 15 bucks a month. I would pay 15 bucks a month to be 17% more powerful now!!!!
I agree with you
as a raider, i've had peers that subbed through Krono
SOE has 2 ways to sub to EQ2, regular all access
or pay with ingame gold for Krono (similar to EVE's PLEX) - a valid form of free to play
EQ2 fan sites
The only mistake they are making is not starting as p2p with the intention of swapping to f2p later.
If you do that it allows you to charge £60 upfront, get store recognition and you can even run as a p2p with a cash shop. Once profits drop you can "relaunch" as f2p. This is the industry standard for AAA titles right now, launch as p2p wait 1-2 years and swap over.
Also even though players will say they will quit if their game swaps to f2p, they very rarely ever follow though with that threat since they have so much time invested.
Amazed they would do it this way honestly.
Ya if you dont sub with RL money, your only real option is Krono. My server they sell for about 3k plat. Not an option a casual gamer could do easy. But that is a real option to join the end game community. I have boosted my account a few times selling Kronos. I love SoE for doing this.
For me, EQN as F2P is a huge mistake, because I won't play it. The direction of the game wasn't overly appealing to me after we learned more about it, but I could see myself giving it a shot, but definitely not with a F2P model. I have attempted several F2P games and games that went F2P, also those with hybrid models. I just can't do it again, too many pay walls. The hybrids are more likable, but the crowd that these F2P models bring in along with the botters and hackers, it's just atrocious. Yes, I know there are botters and hackers in every game, but it's far worse in F2P models.
EQN is a definite no for me.
For SOE, F2P could be huge for them, I can admit that.
It's hard to say. Free to play can be very well done. Sadly, in most cases...it is somewhat lackluster or simply awful.
We'll see. I think we have quite a while before EQN hits the market. Things can change.
Most likely, but the unfortunate truth is that the gameplay will undoubtedly be designed with F2P addiction mechanics and that for me is the biggest and deadliest turn-off. Luckily, I have FFXIV and ESO to keep me occupied at present, but my days in the genre are probably numbered thanks to that obnoxious business model. My concern has never been about how expensive F2P games can be, it's how they are designed to be god awful treadmills that make P2P game design seem tame in comparison.
F2P Restrictions on WoW are even worse. You can't even level past 20
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
f2p has ran its course? really?
not including wow here as really its the anomaly in the MMO genre - every single sub based MMO that converts to f2p has a huge boost in revenue and active players
f2p is far from dead
You read me wrong. I love the restrictions that get people to Sub. SoE F2P system lets you try all of the game for free. When you are ready to join the end game community, you sub. This keeps a flow of new gamers trying your game and keeps the end game clear of leachers that really give nothing to the community. Every MMO should pick up this model.
See that colossal flaming messed call Archeage? That's what EQN is going to end up like with SOE's infinite wisdom in models.
And just replace TRION with SOE & John Smedley and you have a true recipe for disaster.
None of SOE's current titles are a mess like AA. Why would all of a sudden they will mess EQN up?
Moreover EQN isn't a open world full loot PVP MMO. And in a PVE game you can get away with a lot in terms of cash shop.
What you see in EQ2 is what you will see in EQN with implementation of cash shop.
Hm guess I'm in the middle of all this. It would've been so nice if all game could simply be B2P. Leave the F2P to mobile and browser games and send P2P into the past. Expansion drop ins every 6-12 months and we're golden. P2P is so ridiculous by now people don't even try to make server emulators for those games (unlike the early days of Lineage 2 and WoW).
And believe me its not because those games use some "unseen" encryption or something. Its because the people who actually can do that sort of thing don't bother because those P2P games offer nothing that would hold a gamer's interest for long.
I'm very happy with my recent Dragon Age: Inquisition purchase, playing the multiplayer with the girlfriend, its tons of fun. So much fun that im even starting to think if we really need a MMO. SP games grow massive in size (world, environment) and with proper co op system you can always play with your friends, kinda like what the new trend of "megaservers" are doing. And the graphics are way beyond anything a MMO can bring in the next 10 years.
I agree. I believe that if WoW were to be released today, even if it had an update graphics engine, it would have a really tough time with a P2P model. There's almost a try-before-you-buy mentality out there now. That's great, though, it means variety and more intelligent consumers because you're not just sitting there, consumed with one game.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------