I actually disagree. I think it will have a groundswell of excitement, some people will be pumped about “a hardcore game not for carebears!!1!”, and we’ll see some ridiculous eBay auctions of Darkfall boxes.
For three months. Then… it will collapse upon itself.
Why this curve? Because every PvP-centric MMO released to date has seen this. Even PvP-specific servers, released to great fanfare with their users, see this curve. And the reason is pretty simple – because people enjoy hardcore PvP in the abstract. Or, to put another way, many more people believe they are ‘hardc0re’ than actually are. And they dislike being proved wrong pretty powerfully.
The best example of this in my experience were the free-for-all PvP servers in Dark Age of Camelot. They were eagerly anticipated. When the first one, “Mordred”, came out, it was the most popular server in the game. A second PvP server, “Andred”, was quickly pressed into service, which also was popular.
Then… they weren’t. Andred in particular became a ghost town and after a decent interval was merged back into Mordred. Mordred still exists, but only has a vestigal population at best.
Of course, if you talk to the players themselves, there were other issues. PvP in DAOC was an afterthought, levelling was too difficult, there were too many exploits, there were bugs, etc. etc. Much as in Shadowbane, one of the most highly anticipated MMOs ever judging from message board buzz – bugs, bad design, exploits, etc. etc.
All of which is true. But they are not unique to PvP servers, or PvP games. What *is* unique is the PvP ruleset – the sense of the hardcore. The Mordred problem is simply that a great majority of the people who believe they are hardcore are not, and after being violently disabused of the notion, will leave.
Thus, the curve. Servers that will be massively overpopulated one month, ghost towns the next.
I remember Gaheris (coop server) was launched in 2002 or so and it did okay but the normal servers were the ones people played in with their own PvP area. Take from it what you will.
having the world open PvP would NOT make it like Skyrim etc. You would end up with 80% killers and 20% sheep just like every other open world PvP game going. Maybe without full loot it would be more like 40% 50%.
The problem has always been guards . . even in UO.
During UO beta gaurds had to have line of sight, see you commit a crime and then respond. That was buggy or people could exploit it so guards could then be called and instantly teleport.
In every game that has tried open world PvP you have one of two problems.
1) It is completely lawless and people have to police themselves (even in cities) - this worked great during Meridian 59 beta. it was hard to be a PK in that game, especially with one account and one character. The small community also helped make this work.
2) You have a fake justice system or "safe zones" I am not a fan of these as they are also easy to exploit.
Mortal online tried guards the way UO tried and failed. Eve has a similar set up but people use throw away ships etc.
People say that it is not realistic to have safe zones. . it is also not realistic to run into a town. . kill people and then log off.
Salem has a system where a killer can be tracked etc even when offline. This still does not solve all of the problems but is a step in the right direction.
Originally posted by filmoret That system doesn't work and that's exactly why they didn't do it. If you want proof then go play Mortal Online. Its everything ESO Hardcore shoulda been and then some. But be prepared to deal with a lot of douche bags. And a harsh harsh world. The players as a whole just don't want to deal with all the crap that comes with open world pvp. And the developers don't know how to make it so its bearable at the least.
How is mortal online proof when it probably had 100th the budget ESO had?
Comments
Scott Jennings had this to say about Mordred and Andred.
https://sjennings.wordpress.com/2009/02/19/the-mordred-problem/
I actually disagree. I think it will have a groundswell of excitement, some people will be pumped about “a hardcore game not for carebears!!1!”, and we’ll see some ridiculous eBay auctions of Darkfall boxes.
For three months. Then… it will collapse upon itself.
Why this curve? Because every PvP-centric MMO released to date has seen this. Even PvP-specific servers, released to great fanfare with their users, see this curve. And the reason is pretty simple – because people enjoy hardcore PvP in the abstract. Or, to put another way, many more people believe they are ‘hardc0re’ than actually are. And they dislike being proved wrong pretty powerfully.
The best example of this in my experience were the free-for-all PvP servers in Dark Age of Camelot. They were eagerly anticipated. When the first one, “Mordred”, came out, it was the most popular server in the game. A second PvP server, “Andred”, was quickly pressed into service, which also was popular.
Then… they weren’t. Andred in particular became a ghost town and after a decent interval was merged back into Mordred. Mordred still exists, but only has a vestigal population at best.
Of course, if you talk to the players themselves, there were other issues. PvP in DAOC was an afterthought, levelling was too difficult, there were too many exploits, there were bugs, etc. etc. Much as in Shadowbane, one of the most highly anticipated MMOs ever judging from message board buzz – bugs, bad design, exploits, etc. etc.
All of which is true. But they are not unique to PvP servers, or PvP games. What *is* unique is the PvP ruleset – the sense of the hardcore. The Mordred problem is simply that a great majority of the people who believe they are hardcore are not, and after being violently disabused of the notion, will leave.
Thus, the curve. Servers that will be massively overpopulated one month, ghost towns the next.
I remember Gaheris (coop server) was launched in 2002 or so and it did okay but the normal servers were the ones people played in with their own PvP area. Take from it what you will.
having the world open PvP would NOT make it like Skyrim etc. You would end up with 80% killers and 20% sheep just like every other open world PvP game going. Maybe without full loot it would be more like 40% 50%.
The problem has always been guards . . even in UO.
During UO beta gaurds had to have line of sight, see you commit a crime and then respond. That was buggy or people could exploit it so guards could then be called and instantly teleport.
In every game that has tried open world PvP you have one of two problems.
1) It is completely lawless and people have to police themselves (even in cities) - this worked great during Meridian 59 beta. it was hard to be a PK in that game, especially with one account and one character. The small community also helped make this work.
2) You have a fake justice system or "safe zones" I am not a fan of these as they are also easy to exploit.
Mortal online tried guards the way UO tried and failed. Eve has a similar set up but people use throw away ships etc.
People say that it is not realistic to have safe zones. . it is also not realistic to run into a town. . kill people and then log off.
Salem has a system where a killer can be tracked etc even when offline. This still does not solve all of the problems but is a step in the right direction.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
How is mortal online proof when it probably had 100th the budget ESO had?