Originally posted by Ikeda OWPvP would have immediately meant they put off about 60-70% of their target MMO audience who do NOT PvP. OWPvP would have meant an "Archage" or "Age of Wushu" kind of BS where grief runs rampant. OWPvP does not work when there is no penalty other than respawning specifically to the PK'er.
QFT!
OWPvP is just one of those things that appeals to a small segment of the gaming community, and is pretty much anathema to the rest. That they limited the PVP to Cyrodiil campaigns was a good idea, the bad ideas was faction locking and using some crazy magic system that isn't even slightly related to TES games, well okay thats what i think they got wrong, but thing is, im fairly sure that the way PVP is handled in the game, is not really that much of an issue to most of the players
Originally posted by Ikeda OWPvP would have immediately meant they put off about 60-70% of their target MMO audience who do NOT PvP. OWPvP would have meant an "Archage" or "Age of Wushu" kind of BS where grief runs rampant. OWPvP does not work when there is no penalty other than respawning specifically to the PK'er.
QFT!
OWPvP is just one of those things that appeals to a small segment of the gaming community, and is pretty much anathema to the rest. That they limited the PVP to Cyrodiil campaigns was a good idea, the bad ideas was faction locking and using some crazy magic system that isn't even slightly related to TES games, well okay thats what i think they got wrong, but thing is, im fairly sure that the way PVP is handled in the game, is not really that much of an issue to most of the players
The obvious problem with your reasoning is that no new product would ever have launched if everyone thought, like you, that there is no way to improve on current things. In reality, it's often just a problem of implementation or timing.
To give you an example you can easily grasp, before WoW, MMORPG were just those things that appealed to only a small segment of the gaming community. Then Blizzard came, did it the right way, and the rest is history.
Same can be said with tablet/smartphones and Apple.
Why does OWPvP appeal to only a small segment? Because the current implementations are bad (or the timing/technology isn't right).
Why is that exactly? Because you are a fan of open world pvp? The pvpr's have been getting catered to in recent years. So along comes a game whose sole focus isn't pvp and you pvpr's are furious. Pvp is NOT the be all end all of all gaming. In fact, a proper sandbox game that includes an excellent housing and crafting system with some servers dedicated to pve, some dedicated to a mixture, and some dedicated to pvp is the way to go. It's something that these game companies have forgotten. There is a reason why people keep going back to ten year old games... because those games offer what people are looking for in a game and aren't solely focused on a single form of play. Players want more.
Originally posted by Ikeda OWPvP would have immediately meant they put off about 60-70% of their target MMO audience who do NOT PvP. OWPvP would have meant an "Archage" or "Age of Wushu" kind of BS where grief runs rampant. OWPvP does not work when there is no penalty other than respawning specifically to the PK'er.
QFT!
OWPvP is just one of those things that appeals to a small segment of the gaming community, and is pretty much anathema to the rest. That they limited the PVP to Cyrodiil campaigns was a good idea, the bad ideas was faction locking and using some crazy magic system that isn't even slightly related to TES games, well okay thats what i think they got wrong, but thing is, im fairly sure that the way PVP is handled in the game, is not really that much of an issue to most of the players
The obvious problem with your reasoning is that no new product would ever have launched if everyone thought, like you, that there is no way to improve on current things. In reality, it's often just a problem of implementation or timing.
To give you an example you can easily grasp, before WoW, MMORPG were just those things that appealed to only a small segment of the gaming community. Then Blizzard came, did it the right way, and the rest is history.
Same can be said with tablet/smartphones and Apple.
Why does OWPvP appeal to only a small segment? Because the current implementations are bad (or the timing/technology isn't right).
This sums it up pretty well.
There is a large enough playerbase of people who would enjoy open world pvp to make a game very successful, the problem with nearly every PvP game released in the past decade is that they either a) had a crappy pvp system & combat or b) released as complete crapfests loaded with bugs and lacking any real motivation for pvping.
Just look at games like Darkfall and Mortal Online. People played them BECAUSE they had open world PvP, they didn't leave because of it. They left because they were overall terrible games with massive amount of bugs / glitches / exploits, lacked any real purpose to PvPing aside from ganking randoms, and were run by dev teams who took waaaaay too long to ever actually fix anything or add new things to the game.
A lot of that kind of comes with the territory of indie games though. But if we were to actually have a AAA company who could release a Darkfall style game and actually polish up the game, run it properly, get all the bugs out, make improvements in a timely manner, add new and interesting things to do on a regular basis, etc well... you would have what I would have imagined ESO to be when it was first announced. A sandboxy MMO with OWPvP that has purpose and consequences, and a combat system that actually resembles TES games instead of GW2.
the Open PVP crowd needs to realize that they are in a very small (yet vocal) minority. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if Archeage (the latest hope and dream of the open PVPer) would have released a PVE server it would be in a much better spot than it is now.
Fact is the OPVPer destroys every ounce of community in a game, most OPVPers relish in making other people upset and driving people away from playing the game. I dont know how many times i heard friends (who are Open PVPers) say "we killed X so many times i hope they quit the game".
you guys are cesspools and a cancer to MMOs and any game developer would be smart to not welcome you to their game if they want it to be successful. let the cancer fester in another MMO.
the Open PVP crowd needs to realize that they are in a very small (yet vocal) minority. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if Archeage (the latest hope and dream of the open PVPer) would have released a PVE server it would be in a much better spot than it is now.
Fact is the OPVPer destroys every ounce of community in a game, most OPVPers relish in making other people upset and driving people away from playing the game. I dont know how many times i heard friends (who are Open PVPers) say "we killed X so many times i hope they quit the game".
you guys are cesspools and a cancer to MMOs and any game developer would be smart to not welcome you to their game if they want it to be successful. let the cancer fester in another MMO.
With ESOs current mechanics open world PvP would have been pretty bad.
When you play a game like Skyrim (or Daggerfall or any other TES game) your opponents will always be strong enough to be interesting but not so strong you can't win.
Meeting a fully geared up max level character in the noob zone on the other hand just isn't fun.
For an Elder scroll game with open world PvP to work you need a very different mechanic, either a levelless system with a low powergap or some kind of downleveling system depending on which area you are in.
GW2 could have worked fine with open world PvP but not ESO. Far too many of the fights would either be so incredible easy that you can't loose or just impossible to win.
the Open PVP crowd needs to realize that they are in a very small (yet vocal) minority.
Fact is the OPVPer destroys every ounce of community in a game, most OPVPers relish in making other people upset and driving people away from playing the game.
you guys are cesspools and a cancer to MMOs
Man... said it so much better...
"Innovation" of PvP games is impossible when there are PvPtards out there who make it personal and not fun. Implementation of ANY new thing would be pounced upon by them to facilitate a way to take advantage of people. Human condition and all that.
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Just look at games like Darkfall and Mortal Online. People played them BECAUSE they had open world PvP, they didn't leave because of it.
And here I thought we were having a grownup discussion. And then you bring up games with under 10K subs. The big boys generate MILLIONS. Just saying.
Edit: My bad... Darkfall peetered around 20K or so. To put that into perspective... Aion had 3.5 million just in Asia.
So... take all these combines (minus Eve.. which while OWPvP is possible also has a High Sec area where PvP is heavily discouraged):
the Open PVP crowd needs to realize that they are in a very small (yet vocal) minority. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if Archeage (the latest hope and dream of the open PVPer) would have released a PVE server it would be in a much better spot than it is now.
Fact is the OPVPer destroys every ounce of community in a game, most OPVPers relish in making other people upset and driving people away from playing the game. I dont know how many times i heard friends (who are Open PVPers) say "we killed X so many times i hope they quit the game".
you guys are cesspools and a cancer to MMOs and any game developer would be smart to not welcome you to their game if they want it to be successful. let the cancer fester in another MMO.
Got to love silly people who dont know the difference between a PvPer and griefer.
BTW, AAs current condition has nothing to do with PvE vs PvP. People are dropping like flies from the game due to massive incompetence by the people running the game. I dont think I've seen a single complaint yet where someone is quitting the game because of there being PvP, meanwhile there are tons of complaints about bugs, exploits, account screw ups, P2W, and overall just being a boring game with outdated and dull combat.
the Open PVP crowd needs to realize that they are in a very small (yet vocal) minority. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if Archeage (the latest hope and dream of the open PVPer) would have released a PVE server it would be in a much better spot than it is now.
Fact is the OPVPer destroys every ounce of community in a game, most OPVPers relish in making other people upset and driving people away from playing the game. I dont know how many times i heard friends (who are Open PVPers) say "we killed X so many times i hope they quit the game".
you guys are cesspools and a cancer to MMOs and any game developer would be smart to not welcome you to their game if they want it to be successful. let the cancer fester in another MMO.
Got to love silly people who dont know the difference between a PvPer and griefer.
BTW, AAs current condition has nothing to do with PvE vs PvP. People are dropping like flies from the game due to massive incompetence by the people running the game. I dont think I've seen a single complaint yet where someone is quitting the game because of there being PvP, meanwhile there are tons of complaints about bugs, exploits, account screw ups, P2W, and overall just being a boring game with outdated and dull combat.
They do but too many times the pvp'r will defend the ones who grief.
the Open PVP crowd needs to realize that they are in a very small (yet vocal) minority. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if Archeage (the latest hope and dream of the open PVPer) would have released a PVE server it would be in a much better spot than it is now.
Fact is the OPVPer destroys every ounce of community in a game, most OPVPers relish in making other people upset and driving people away from playing the game. I dont know how many times i heard friends (who are Open PVPers) say "we killed X so many times i hope they quit the game".
you guys are cesspools and a cancer to MMOs and any game developer would be smart to not welcome you to their game if they want it to be successful. let the cancer fester in another MMO.
Got to love silly people who dont know the difference between a PvPer and griefer.
BTW, AAs current condition has nothing to do with PvE vs PvP. People are dropping like flies from the game due to massive incompetence by the people running the game. I dont think I've seen a single complaint yet where someone is quitting the game because of there being PvP, meanwhile there are tons of complaints about bugs, exploits, account screw ups, P2W, and overall just being a boring game with outdated and dull combat.
that line is so thin that its almost non-existent.
maybe people didn't quit the game because of PVP but i can damn sure tell you that some never even bothered with the game because of the open world PVP. I know i had 10+ people in my guild that wouldn't even look twice at AA because of the open pvp ... and if there were 10 in my guild alone i can imagine how many others that are out there.
the Open PVP crowd needs to realize that they are in a very small (yet vocal) minority. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if Archeage (the latest hope and dream of the open PVPer) would have released a PVE server it would be in a much better spot than it is now.
Fact is the OPVPer destroys every ounce of community in a game, most OPVPers relish in making other people upset and driving people away from playing the game. I dont know how many times i heard friends (who are Open PVPers) say "we killed X so many times i hope they quit the game".
you guys are cesspools and a cancer to MMOs and any game developer would be smart to not welcome you to their game if they want it to be successful. let the cancer fester in another MMO.
Got to love silly people who dont know the difference between a PvPer and griefer.
BTW, AAs current condition has nothing to do with PvE vs PvP. People are dropping like flies from the game due to massive incompetence by the people running the game. I dont think I've seen a single complaint yet where someone is quitting the game because of there being PvP, meanwhile there are tons of complaints about bugs, exploits, account screw ups, P2W, and overall just being a boring game with outdated and dull combat.
It's a difference without a distinction for the most part, especially in FFA OW PVP. There is no way that a non-consensual PvPer isn't griefing because the only time PvP is not griefing is when it is consensual. There are a lot of good reasons not to play AA, but the very top of the list is OW PvP. The other issues don't even matter, because that one cuts off a significant player population who won't touch open world PvP for all the reasons we already know.
ESO would not be improved by OW PvP because OW PvP brings nothing positive to the table and a whole lot of negative.
Classic PvE games allow players to co-operate towards a common goal; it's that aspect which is, to me, the single thing where a MMO is truly a unique gaming experience.
If I look at a game like Archeage, people block other people from using the roads. They use spells compelling other players to dance to steal from them. They push people off airships; they take advantage of the rules to attack in ways where people can't fight back. In short, they take every avenue that they can to make sure that they can take advantage of people *who do not want to be engaging in PvP*. This isn't a specific hit on AA; it's extremely common for sandbox games. I remember that EQ1 had problems with people parking Ogres in doorways to block players from leaving the bank - before they disabled the collision detection there.
Step back and ask, basically, why anyone would want to be on the receiving end of that. If I go to the AA forums there are pages of people saying, basically, that awful behavior by other players drove them out of the game. Which is, pretty much, exactly what you'd expect.
So, I'll turn it around. If I want to be able to do my own thing without getting harassed or mugged, what reason would I have to want open world PvP? In the real world crime has actual consequences. In most open world PvP setups there is almost no cost to anti-social behavior. Is there a way to set up an OW PvP game in a way where it promotes co-operative behavior and strongly discourages making other people miserable just because you can? Because if there isn't, you don't have a very large supply of people who enjoy being bullied...
World PvP in a MMORPG is nice, just not my preference. Personally PvP ruins the PvE experience due to worrying about balancing nonsense. I get my PvP fix in fps games and MOBAs where balance is built in.
I am prob the only person that is not looking forward to the justice system.
With that said, Cyrodiil would be perfect for pvp. it is just the devs have all but ignored it since launch due to the other demands. The size of the map, the pve dailies and map objectives just make it a land of sweet battles.
Step out of town and you were an open target and NO i didn't roam about killing people, I enjoyed the feeling of knowing that just around the corner could be a gang or reds ready to beat seven shades of **** out of me
It was also fun to fool them, like when logging i had gear ready to battle .. under a cloak, so he expected me to be wearing zilch (it was then said that logging in the buff gave better results) .. some idiot jumps me thinking he'd bet a quick kill and got his *** handed to him :-)
Or when we all grouped into a mass mob and went out killing every red we saw
Having an instanced area where PvP happens ruins the "world" feel and just makes the game feel like a game. Nothing like playing Skyrim or Oblivion that managed to create the feel of a world that was alive even with just NPCs.
They really missed a trick not making this game the same as Oblivion/skyrim but just MMO. People could have really taken cities and towns and built stuff.
As it is it just feels like an artificial world and the lore just does not fit it.
Such a shame.
I couldn't disagree more, they actually wanted their game to succeed. Archage, Darkfall, mortal online are all out there failing miserably. Why the risk? To many people want to grief, and it scares away the player base.
The problem with the RvR in ESO is it just doesn't mean enough.
I hope you find that game you're looking for!
but yet WoW has 10 million subscribers with Wpvp everywhere.
Half to slightly more than half of your 10million play on PvE servers (No Wpvp everywhere), with PvP arenas. PvP servers have safe zones. There are also RP (PvP) and RP(PvE) servers. This is the main reason why WoW is so successful. People get to play their own game, they are not forced to play your game.
Also Skyrim and Oblivion are single player games, there are no other players around and therefore no player vs player. Unless you mod it for Coop play. Read PvE. So if ESO wanted to stay true to Skyrim and Oblivion than there should not be any PvP content at all.
Biggest problem with PvP as mentioned by other users is balancing issues with regards to the various classes and builds. You might really end up breaking the game.
P.S.: Sorry I had to burst your bubble. Quite hard.
Having an instanced area where PvP happens ruins the "world" feel and just makes the game feel like a game. Nothing like playing Skyrim or Oblivion that managed to create the feel of a world that was alive even with just NPCs.
They really missed a trick not making this game the same as Oblivion/skyrim but just MMO. People could have really taken cities and towns and built stuff.
As it is it just feels like an artificial world and the lore just does not fit it.
Such a shame.
I couldn't disagree more, they actually wanted their game to succeed. Archage, Darkfall, mortal online are all out there failing miserably. Why the risk? To many people want to grief, and it scares away the player base.
The problem with the RvR in ESO is it just doesn't mean enough.
I hope you find that game you're looking for!
but yet WoW has 10 million subscribers with Wpvp everywhere.
Half to slightly more than half of your 10million play on PvE servers (No Wpvp everywhere), with PvP arenas. PvP servers have safe zones. There are also RP (PvP) and RP(PvE) servers. This is the main reason why WoW is so successful. People get to play their own game, they are not forced to play your game.
P.S.: Sorry I had to burst your bubble. Quite hard.
City raids still happen on PvE servers and you can flag anywhere. Yes Wpvp is everywhere on the pvp servers. I'm not sure how your statement does anything but confirm what I was saying.
Having an instanced area where PvP happens ruins the "world" feel and just makes the game feel like a game. Nothing like playing Skyrim or Oblivion that managed to create the feel of a world that was alive even with just NPCs.
They really missed a trick not making this game the same as Oblivion/skyrim but just MMO. People could have really taken cities and towns and built stuff.
As it is it just feels like an artificial world and the lore just does not fit it.
Such a shame.
I couldn't disagree more, they actually wanted their game to succeed. Archage, Darkfall, mortal online are all out there failing miserably. Why the risk? To many people want to grief, and it scares away the player base.
The problem with the RvR in ESO is it just doesn't mean enough.
I hope you find that game you're looking for!
but yet WoW has 10 million subscribers with Wpvp everywhere.
Half to slightly more than half of your 10million play on PvE servers (No Wpvp everywhere), with PvP arenas. PvP servers have safe zones. There are also RP (PvP) and RP(PvE) servers. This is the main reason why WoW is so successful. People get to play their own game, they are not forced to play your game.
P.S.: Sorry I had to burst your bubble. Quite hard.
City raids still happen on PvE servers and you can flag anywhere. Yes Wpvp is everywhere on the pvp servers. I'm not sure how your statement does anything but confirm what I was saying.
Not really. In fact quite the contrary. You can flag anywhere does not mean that people keep their flags at PvP. I've never done that.
You can raid a city, but if people just stand around then you just fight the NPCs. Still PvE. I've seen that. So nope. 10 million people do not PvP in WoW.
Not really. In fact quite the contrary. You can flag anywhere does not mean that people keep their flags at PvP. I've never done that.
You can raid a city, but if people just stand around then you just fight the NPCs. Still PvE. I've seen that. So nope. 10 million people do not PvP in WoW.
What BC Bully is doing is trying to pull his facts in now that everyone has proved contrary.
What he's ignoring is the very point that Bel points out. If I don't want to PvP I can ignore people. Who cares if Stormwind is being sacked. I can just do what I want to do. That by very definition is NOT OWPvP.
The argument he SHOULD be using is that WoW consists of 102 PvP servers and 124 PvE servers just in the U.S. Thus we could argue that something around 40% of WoW's current user base (in the U.S.) are running PvP. While not being a MAJORITY, it is significant, however on PvP servers there are plenty of areas where killing is not allowed. Thus still not really OWPvP. (especially since it is only cross faction)
It would add an interesting element to the game. Unfortunately, the players would not handle this well. The amount of trolling and griefing and just plain progress blocking would really be annoying. The game is just too linear for full-on open world pvp. I do believe it could work with some restrictions in place.
Classic PvE games allow players to co-operate towards a common goal; it's that aspect which is, to me, the single thing where a MMO is truly a unique gaming experience.
If I look at a game like Archeage, people block other people from using the roads. They use spells compelling other players to dance to steal from them. They push people off airships; they take advantage of the rules to attack in ways where people can't fight back. In short, they take every avenue that they can to make sure that they can take advantage of people *who do not want to be engaging in PvP*. This isn't a specific hit on AA; it's extremely common for sandbox games. I remember that EQ1 had problems with people parking Ogres in doorways to block players from leaving the bank - before they disabled the collision detection there.
Step back and ask, basically, why anyone would want to be on the receiving end of that. If I go to the AA forums there are pages of people saying, basically, that awful behavior by other players drove them out of the game. Which is, pretty much, exactly what you'd expect.
So, I'll turn it around. If I want to be able to do my own thing without getting harassed or mugged, what reason would I have to want open world PvP? In the real world crime has actual consequences. In most open world PvP setups there is almost no cost to anti-social behavior. Is there a way to set up an OW PvP game in a way where it promotes co-operative behavior and strongly discourages making other people miserable just because you can? Because if there isn't, you don't have a very large supply of people who enjoy being bullied...
and Trion does nothing ... because as they call it. its emergent gameplay LOL
and you have people on the forums defending those mentioned actions saying "thats what the freedom of a sandbox game brings" but i have to ask why does their freedom get to impede on someone elses freedom. a friend of mine quit archeage because of the road blocks. And thats another problem with the PVPers apparently their gameplay is more important than anyone elses ... just ask them.
Having an instanced area where PvP happens ruins the "world" feel and just makes the game feel like a game. Nothing like playing Skyrim or Oblivion that managed to create the feel of a world that was alive even with just NPCs.
They really missed a trick not making this game the same as Oblivion/skyrim but just MMO. People could have really taken cities and towns and built stuff.
As it is it just feels like an artificial world and the lore just does not fit it.
Such a shame.
Completely agree. I couldn't AGREE more. Let there be freedom and let the world and people sort it all out.
Comments
QFT!
OWPvP is just one of those things that appeals to a small segment of the gaming community, and is pretty much anathema to the rest. That they limited the PVP to Cyrodiil campaigns was a good idea, the bad ideas was faction locking and using some crazy magic system that isn't even slightly related to TES games, well okay thats what i think they got wrong, but thing is, im fairly sure that the way PVP is handled in the game, is not really that much of an issue to most of the players
The obvious problem with your reasoning is that no new product would ever have launched if everyone thought, like you, that there is no way to improve on current things. In reality, it's often just a problem of implementation or timing.
To give you an example you can easily grasp, before WoW, MMORPG were just those things that appealed to only a small segment of the gaming community. Then Blizzard came, did it the right way, and the rest is history.
Same can be said with tablet/smartphones and Apple.
Why does OWPvP appeal to only a small segment? Because the current implementations are bad (or the timing/technology isn't right).
This sums it up pretty well.
There is a large enough playerbase of people who would enjoy open world pvp to make a game very successful, the problem with nearly every PvP game released in the past decade is that they either a) had a crappy pvp system & combat or b) released as complete crapfests loaded with bugs and lacking any real motivation for pvping.
Just look at games like Darkfall and Mortal Online. People played them BECAUSE they had open world PvP, they didn't leave because of it. They left because they were overall terrible games with massive amount of bugs / glitches / exploits, lacked any real purpose to PvPing aside from ganking randoms, and were run by dev teams who took waaaaay too long to ever actually fix anything or add new things to the game.
A lot of that kind of comes with the territory of indie games though. But if we were to actually have a AAA company who could release a Darkfall style game and actually polish up the game, run it properly, get all the bugs out, make improvements in a timely manner, add new and interesting things to do on a regular basis, etc well... you would have what I would have imagined ESO to be when it was first announced. A sandboxy MMO with OWPvP that has purpose and consequences, and a combat system that actually resembles TES games instead of GW2.
the Open PVP crowd needs to realize that they are in a very small (yet vocal) minority. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if Archeage (the latest hope and dream of the open PVPer) would have released a PVE server it would be in a much better spot than it is now.
Fact is the OPVPer destroys every ounce of community in a game, most OPVPers relish in making other people upset and driving people away from playing the game. I dont know how many times i heard friends (who are Open PVPers) say "we killed X so many times i hope they quit the game".
you guys are cesspools and a cancer to MMOs and any game developer would be smart to not welcome you to their game if they want it to be successful. let the cancer fester in another MMO.
This.
With ESOs current mechanics open world PvP would have been pretty bad.
When you play a game like Skyrim (or Daggerfall or any other TES game) your opponents will always be strong enough to be interesting but not so strong you can't win.
Meeting a fully geared up max level character in the noob zone on the other hand just isn't fun.
For an Elder scroll game with open world PvP to work you need a very different mechanic, either a levelless system with a low powergap or some kind of downleveling system depending on which area you are in.
GW2 could have worked fine with open world PvP but not ESO. Far too many of the fights would either be so incredible easy that you can't loose or just impossible to win.
Man... said it so much better...
"Innovation" of PvP games is impossible when there are PvPtards out there who make it personal and not fun. Implementation of ANY new thing would be pounced upon by them to facilitate a way to take advantage of people. Human condition and all that.
And here I thought we were having a grownup discussion. And then you bring up games with under 10K subs. The big boys generate MILLIONS. Just saying.
Edit: My bad... Darkfall peetered around 20K or so. To put that into perspective... Aion had 3.5 million just in Asia.
So... take all these combines (minus Eve.. which while OWPvP is possible also has a High Sec area where PvP is heavily discouraged):
Got to love silly people who dont know the difference between a PvPer and griefer.
BTW, AAs current condition has nothing to do with PvE vs PvP. People are dropping like flies from the game due to massive incompetence by the people running the game. I dont think I've seen a single complaint yet where someone is quitting the game because of there being PvP, meanwhile there are tons of complaints about bugs, exploits, account screw ups, P2W, and overall just being a boring game with outdated and dull combat.
They do but too many times the pvp'r will defend the ones who grief.
If we believe them... griefers are a "rare" anomaly. Almost like all these supposed people who WANT OWPvP. The numbers speak for themselves there.
that line is so thin that its almost non-existent.
maybe people didn't quit the game because of PVP but i can damn sure tell you that some never even bothered with the game because of the open world PVP. I know i had 10+ people in my guild that wouldn't even look twice at AA because of the open pvp ... and if there were 10 in my guild alone i can imagine how many others that are out there.
It's a difference without a distinction for the most part, especially in FFA OW PVP. There is no way that a non-consensual PvPer isn't griefing because the only time PvP is not griefing is when it is consensual. There are a lot of good reasons not to play AA, but the very top of the list is OW PvP. The other issues don't even matter, because that one cuts off a significant player population who won't touch open world PvP for all the reasons we already know.
ESO would not be improved by OW PvP because OW PvP brings nothing positive to the table and a whole lot of negative.
Classic PvE games allow players to co-operate towards a common goal; it's that aspect which is, to me, the single thing where a MMO is truly a unique gaming experience.
If I look at a game like Archeage, people block other people from using the roads. They use spells compelling other players to dance to steal from them. They push people off airships; they take advantage of the rules to attack in ways where people can't fight back. In short, they take every avenue that they can to make sure that they can take advantage of people *who do not want to be engaging in PvP*. This isn't a specific hit on AA; it's extremely common for sandbox games. I remember that EQ1 had problems with people parking Ogres in doorways to block players from leaving the bank - before they disabled the collision detection there.
Step back and ask, basically, why anyone would want to be on the receiving end of that. If I go to the AA forums there are pages of people saying, basically, that awful behavior by other players drove them out of the game. Which is, pretty much, exactly what you'd expect.
So, I'll turn it around. If I want to be able to do my own thing without getting harassed or mugged, what reason would I have to want open world PvP? In the real world crime has actual consequences. In most open world PvP setups there is almost no cost to anti-social behavior. Is there a way to set up an OW PvP game in a way where it promotes co-operative behavior and strongly discourages making other people miserable just because you can? Because if there isn't, you don't have a very large supply of people who enjoy being bullied...World PvP in a MMORPG is nice, just not my preference. Personally PvP ruins the PvE experience due to worrying about balancing nonsense. I get my PvP fix in fps games and MOBAs where balance is built in.
I am prob the only person that is not looking forward to the justice system.
With that said, Cyrodiil would be perfect for pvp. it is just the devs have all but ignored it since launch due to the other demands. The size of the map, the pve dailies and map objectives just make it a land of sweet battles.
Favourite ever MMO for me = Ultima Online
Step out of town and you were an open target and NO i didn't roam about killing people, I enjoyed the feeling of knowing that just around the corner could be a gang or reds ready to beat seven shades of **** out of me
It was also fun to fool them, like when logging i had gear ready to battle .. under a cloak, so he expected me to be wearing zilch (it was then said that logging in the buff gave better results) .. some idiot jumps me thinking he'd bet a quick kill and got his *** handed to him :-)
Or when we all grouped into a mass mob and went out killing every red we saw
Half to slightly more than half of your 10million play on PvE servers (No Wpvp everywhere), with PvP arenas. PvP servers have safe zones. There are also RP (PvP) and RP(PvE) servers. This is the main reason why WoW is so successful. People get to play their own game, they are not forced to play your game.
Also Skyrim and Oblivion are single player games, there are no other players around and therefore no player vs player. Unless you mod it for Coop play. Read PvE. So if ESO wanted to stay true to Skyrim and Oblivion than there should not be any PvP content at all.
Biggest problem with PvP as mentioned by other users is balancing issues with regards to the various classes and builds. You might really end up breaking the game.
P.S.: Sorry I had to burst your bubble. Quite hard.
City raids still happen on PvE servers and you can flag anywhere. Yes Wpvp is everywhere on the pvp servers. I'm not sure how your statement does anything but confirm what I was saying.
Not really. In fact quite the contrary. You can flag anywhere does not mean that people keep their flags at PvP. I've never done that.
You can raid a city, but if people just stand around then you just fight the NPCs. Still PvE. I've seen that. So nope. 10 million people do not PvP in WoW.
What BC Bully is doing is trying to pull his facts in now that everyone has proved contrary.
What he's ignoring is the very point that Bel points out. If I don't want to PvP I can ignore people. Who cares if Stormwind is being sacked. I can just do what I want to do. That by very definition is NOT OWPvP.
The argument he SHOULD be using is that WoW consists of 102 PvP servers and 124 PvE servers just in the U.S. Thus we could argue that something around 40% of WoW's current user base (in the U.S.) are running PvP. While not being a MAJORITY, it is significant, however on PvP servers there are plenty of areas where killing is not allowed. Thus still not really OWPvP. (especially since it is only cross faction)
and Trion does nothing ... because as they call it. its emergent gameplay LOL
and you have people on the forums defending those mentioned actions saying "thats what the freedom of a sandbox game brings" but i have to ask why does their freedom get to impede on someone elses freedom. a friend of mine quit archeage because of the road blocks. And thats another problem with the PVPers apparently their gameplay is more important than anyone elses ... just ask them.
Completely agree. I couldn't AGREE more. Let there be freedom and let the world and people sort it all out.