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is it p2w

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  • syriinxsyriinx Member UncommonPosts: 1,383

    Rift has one of the better f2p models.  Dont care much for the game (I think WoW, EQ2, SWTOR, FFXIV, and LOTRO are better themeparks) but if you wanted to ever play a game without spending a dime Rift would be the #1 choice to do that in.  The games above are all a vastly superior experience as subscription games (some dont even have the f2p option), but Rift plays just fine without sub.

     

    Rift maybe has some things on its shop it shouldnt, but I certainly wouldnt call it p2w and this is coming from someone who dislikes Trion.

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,429
    Originally posted by zaberfangx
    Originally posted by laserit
    Originally posted by Sector13
    MMORPG.com logic : F2P = P2W, no exceptions (unless I like the game) but no exceptions!

    50 year old, educated, self employed, business owner's logic : 

     

    If a game gives you a competitive advantage, by spending real money in a cash shop or any other type of purchasing mechanic. That is supplied or condoned by the supplier of said game.

     

    The game is P2W

    Tons of MMO that gives people a competitive advantage some with money some with in game time, But what ever mmo people play if you have to keep paying $15 a month for a sub game other then people that can't is a advantage over a other that can't. 

     

    Even some people not going to agree still a advantage over a other.

     

    But people complain about p2w all the time, but no one really wins here other then the company, as people bank balance lose here.

    ???

     

    In my logic a P2P game can also be a P2W game

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards Member Posts: 778
    Rift is a purely a PVE game i don't know how you P2W in that. Now if you say AA is P2W i would understand but Rift? nah!!
  • zaberfangxzaberfangx Member UncommonPosts: 1,796
    Originally posted by laserit
    Originally posted by zaberfangx
    Originally posted by laserit
    Originally posted by Sector13
    MMORPG.com logic : F2P = P2W, no exceptions (unless I like the game) but no exceptions!

    50 year old, educated, self employed, business owner's logic : 

     

    If a game gives you a competitive advantage, by spending real money in a cash shop or any other type of purchasing mechanic. That is supplied or condoned by the supplier of said game.

     

    The game is P2W

    Tons of MMO that gives people a competitive advantage some with money some with in game time, But what ever mmo people play if you have to keep paying $15 a month for a sub game other then people that can't is a advantage over a other that can't. 

     

    Even some people not going to agree still a advantage over a other.

     

    But people complain about p2w all the time, but no one really wins here other then the company, as people bank balance lose here.

    ???

     

    In my logic a P2P game can also be a P2W game

    The logic is that one having a advantage over other. Why does one have a advantage over a other player? that they can pay in more then other player, if comes down to any mmo, they have all type advantage over a other player all the time. Like for sub games, if I want to keep competitive, I have to keep paying in.

  • BoneserinoBoneserino Member UncommonPosts: 1,764
    Originally posted by laserit
    Originally posted by Sector13
    MMORPG.com logic : F2P = P2W, no exceptions (unless I like the game) but no exceptions!

    50 year old, educated, self employed, business owner's logic : 

     

    If a game gives you a competitive advantage, by spending real money in a cash shop or any other type of purchasing mechanic. That is supplied or condoned by the supplier of said game.

     

    The game is P2W

    You forgot to define "competitive advantage".

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • TheGoblinKingTheGoblinKing Member UncommonPosts: 208
    Originally posted by Whitebeards
    Rift is a purely a PVE game i don't know how you P2W in that. Now if you say AA is P2W i would understand but Rift? nah!!

    In RIFT you can make a brand new toon, crack open the old cash shop, boost your toon to max level and then buy the 2nd best tier armor in the game, how is that not pay to win?

     

    It almost makes AA look good and thats hard to do.

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,429
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by laserit
    Originally posted by Sector13
    MMORPG.com logic : F2P = P2W, no exceptions (unless I like the game) but no exceptions!

    50 year old, educated, self employed, business owner's logic : 

     

    If a game gives you a competitive advantage, by spending real money in a cash shop or any other type of purchasing mechanic. That is supplied or condoned by the supplier of said game.

     

    The game is P2W

    By this definition every single MMO in existance is pay to win. Really? I disagree

    Multiple accounts in WoW - pay to win. Hmm how so? I'll just grab a buddy, fair and square... 2 toons against 2 toons, you know... 2 heads are better than one and all that jazz.

    Buying fully end game geared character for real money - pay to win. I agree

    Buying  boosted level 90 character - pay to win. Nah... I don't believe thats P2W and I also believes it's bullshit. I believe that after you've leveled to cap a couple times you should be able to use this service for FREE 

    How about paying for a power leveling service - pay to win? Nah... thats called CHEATING. Unless it's condoned by the game company in which case its P2W as I already stated.

     

    See - its a horrible definition. I'm 100% sure I didn't cover every circumstance but I believe it's quite a good definition. You are of course... completely free to disagree.

     

    Reality - the true pay to win MMOs - are almost non existent. Ramblings of a P2W addict

     

    Pay to faster is not pay to win.  Keep on telling yourself that.

    edit: This needs more elaboration. In some games Pay to faster is not P2W but in other games it is a form of P2W  such as games where there is a land rush where there is a limited amount of land and ownership of that land gives you a competitive advantage over players without land.  etc. etc.

     

     

     

    Pay to win - cash shop sells gear and abilities that trump everything else in game and can ONLY be obtained by spending cash. Pretty slim definition.

    That IMO is pay to win, again I am not aware of any MMOs that do that. Opinions are a good thing are'nt they.

     

    Round and round we go.....

     

    I'm starting to think that you believe in your own bullshit. 

     

     

     

    In WoW I used to have 5 accounts. One for me and one for each of my four kids. Good thing they are all grown up now (a lot cheaper on the pocket book) P2W? i don't think so. P2Live and entertain the family is a better definition.

     

     

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,429
    Originally posted by Boneserino
    Originally posted by laserit
    Originally posted by Sector13
    MMORPG.com logic : F2P = P2W, no exceptions (unless I like the game) but no exceptions!

    50 year old, educated, self employed, business owner's logic : 

     

    If a game gives you a competitive advantage, by spending real money in a cash shop or any other type of purchasing mechanic. That is supplied or condoned by the supplier of said game.

     

    The game is P2W

    You forgot to define "competitive advantage".

    That's really dependent on the game and what that definition means to you in that game.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,323
    Can you convert cash to in game gold directly or through an indirect system? If so, yes it is.
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,851
    Originally posted by Boneserino
    Originally posted by laserit
    Originally posted by Sector13
    MMORPG.com logic : F2P = P2W, no exceptions (unless I like the game) but no exceptions!

    50 year old, educated, self employed, business owner's logic : 

     

    If a game gives you a competitive advantage, by spending real money in a cash shop or any other type of purchasing mechanic. That is supplied or condoned by the supplier of said game.

     

    The game is P2W

    You forgot to define "competitive advantage".

    Boneserino is correct.

    If you don't define every single parameter of how you define EVERYTHING in EVERY MMORPG (good luck with that) someone's going to find a loophole (and they will) in your definition.

     

    As far as MMORPG.com logic. I'll agree with the initial post in this quote. P2W is defined by how much someone likes the game.

     

    As for me, I don't really define it. I see it less about what's possible, and more about what's actually happening in the game betwween paying and non paying players.

  • 5ubzer05ubzer0 Member UncommonPosts: 72

    I find it funny that people call Rift P2W when WoW gives their vets with heirloom gear the ability to one shot every new player in pvp till level 85. But apparently 3x the health pool is not P2W because you paid a subscription and "earned" the gear. Right.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • DrannyDranny Member UncommonPosts: 279
    Originally posted by TheGoblinKing
    Originally posted by Whitebeards
    Rift is a purely a PVE game i don't know how you P2W in that. Now if you say AA is P2W i would understand but Rift? nah!!

    In RIFT you can make a brand new toon, crack open the old cash shop, boost your toon to max level and then buy the 2nd best tier armor in the game, how is that not pay to win?

     

    It almost makes AA look good and thats hard to do.

    And what do you win if you do this.?

    If you wanted to do this you would be ready for raiding but you didn't win a thing.

    Or you could just level a character and get the exactly same gear for free.

  • DrannyDranny Member UncommonPosts: 279
    Originally posted by udon
    Originally posted by Dranny
    Originally posted by gw2fool

    I was checking this game out on steam and most of the comments are negative, saying that the last update made it so p2w that it is not worth playing any more, it this true?

    I havn't played it for a while and don't think I will bother downloading the update if it is p2w

    No it's not pay to win at all. you don't win anything if you want to spend money on the game. 

     When I look at a F2P game I step back and take a look at the cash shop from the perspective of if I play this game for years how much could I realistically expect to spend to remove the most annoying road blocks F2P companies put in?  

    There are no road blocks which you have to remove in order to do end game raiding.

    1-65 completely free.

    All raids instances completely free.

    All pvp completely free.

    If you like themepark mmo's this is one you can actually play entirely for free.

  • gw2foolgw2fool Member UncommonPosts: 164

    What I meant by p2w is the following review left by a person on steam, I guess they could be ranting it even says so at then end, but why write such crap if its not true?

    STEAM REVIEW:

    The very definition of P2W.

    Paid-for gear.
    Paid-for bag slots.
    (Even an entire bag slot that cannot be unlocked without buying a collector's edition of what is supposed to be a "free" game.)
    Paid-for bank vaults.
    Paid-for boosters.
    Paid-for mounts/pets/minions.
    Paid-for instant level 60.
    Paid-for class specs.
    Paid-for auction house.
    Paid-for achievement rewards.
    (You know, like, achievements in normal games that would otherwise reward you with something. Yeah. Those kinda achievements. For doing something awesome. Yeah................. you will have to pay real money to unlock the reward of the achievement you "earned." Yup, just check the Trophies section of the store.)

    For the love of baby jeebus, just go pay for a subscription based game already. In the long run, it's so much cheaper and so much better then these games that drop hidden expenses on you nearly at every single turn.

    But don't take my word for it. Waste the 25GB+ of bandwidth and the several hours it will take you to download this game. Then press the "]" key to open the RIFT store (or click on the shopping cart icon), and see for yourself. Fanboys of this game will repeatedly say that it's completely free to play; and they would be right. The game is "free to play," but if you expect to enjoy this game you will spend money. A lot of money. You will spend more money on this "Free to Play" model then you will on a traditional subscription based MMO.

    Anybody who has played any MMO on a "hardcore" level knows that other players are treated like garbage for what they haven't unlocked or the item level of their gear. Is that very fair? No not really, but that has become standard MMO behavior. Now imagine trying to be taken seriously by the time you spend all that time leveling up to end game to have never put a single dollar into this game, thus preventing you from unlocking abilities that will seriously make you better to your raid party. Do you think the raid party is going to take you over somebody else who has paid to unlock abilities that will not only let them DPS, but instantly switch to a tank or a healer on the fly?

    Do you really want to play a game with other people who paid to instantly have their character leveled up to 60, so when you are randomly paired with them via looking for group they literally have no clue what they are doing and you have to carry them?

    Do you think bag slots are worth $5 to unlock? Not for all your characters. Just ONE of your characters. That's right, if you have more then one character you will need to buy the bag slots for each one you have. And the $5 doesn't unlock all your bag slots. Haha, oh no, it only unlocks a single bag slot out of multiple ones. You can easily spend $50 before you know it on just unlocking the bag slots for a meager two characters. One of those bag slots being completely unobtainable without spending at least $20+USD. (However, the $20 bag slot will at least be granted to all your characters, at least there's that. Seriously what a rip off.)

    Do you think achievements you've earned should cost you money to acquire the actual reward?

    If spending absurd amounts of money on those sort of things is your cup of tea; by all means, play this game and be happy with it no matter what I or anybody else says.

    And a little bit of additional information about the quality of customer care in RIFT: support tickets can sometimes take as long as a month for a reply. But hey at least they reply right? Better late then never? Heh.

    Also I should note that Steam's version of my hours played is totally inaccurate. I own two collector's edition of this game that I had to buy before this game was ever free to play. Before this game was ever even on Steam.

    </completely truthful rant>

  • BoneserinoBoneserino Member UncommonPosts: 1,764
    Originally posted by gw2fool

    What I meant by p2w is the following review left by a person on steam, I guess they could be ranting it even says so at then end, but why write such crap if its not true?

    STEAM REVIEW:

    The very definition of P2W.

    Paid-for gear.
    Paid-for bag slots.
    (Even an entire bag slot that cannot be unlocked without buying a collector's edition of what is supposed to be a "free" game.)
    Paid-for bank vaults.
    Paid-for boosters.
    Paid-for mounts/pets/minions.
    Paid-for instant level 60.
    Paid-for class specs.
    Paid-for auction house.
    Paid-for achievement rewards.
    (You know, like, achievements in normal games that would otherwise reward you with something. Yeah. Those kinda achievements. For doing something awesome. Yeah................. you will have to pay real money to unlock the reward of the achievement you "earned." Yup, just check the Trophies section of the store.)

    For the love of baby jeebus, just go pay for a subscription based game already. In the long run, it's so much cheaper and so much better then these games that drop hidden expenses on you nearly at every single turn.

    But don't take my word for it. Waste the 25GB+ of bandwidth and the several hours it will take you to download this game. Then press the "]" key to open the RIFT store (or click on the shopping cart icon), and see for yourself. Fanboys of this game will repeatedly say that it's completely free to play; and they would be right. The game is "free to play," but if you expect to enjoy this game you will spend money. A lot of money. You will spend more money on this "Free to Play" model then you will on a traditional subscription based MMO.

    Anybody who has played any MMO on a "hardcore" level knows that other players are treated like garbage for what they haven't unlocked or the item level of their gear. Is that very fair? No not really, but that has become standard MMO behavior. Now imagine trying to be taken seriously by the time you spend all that time leveling up to end game to have never put a single dollar into this game, thus preventing you from unlocking abilities that will seriously make you better to your raid party. Do you think the raid party is going to take you over somebody else who has paid to unlock abilities that will not only let them DPS, but instantly switch to a tank or a healer on the fly?

    Do you really want to play a game with other people who paid to instantly have their character leveled up to 60, so when you are randomly paired with them via looking for group they literally have no clue what they are doing and you have to carry them?

    Do you think bag slots are worth $5 to unlock? Not for all your characters. Just ONE of your characters. That's right, if you have more then one character you will need to buy the bag slots for each one you have. And the $5 doesn't unlock all your bag slots. Haha, oh no, it only unlocks a single bag slot out of multiple ones. You can easily spend $50 before you know it on just unlocking the bag slots for a meager two characters. One of those bag slots being completely unobtainable without spending at least $20+USD. (However, the $20 bag slot will at least be granted to all your characters, at least there's that. Seriously what a rip off.)

    Do you think achievements you've earned should cost you money to acquire the actual reward?

    If spending absurd amounts of money on those sort of things is your cup of tea; by all means, play this game and be happy with it no matter what I or anybody else says.

    And a little bit of additional information about the quality of customer care in RIFT: support tickets can sometimes take as long as a month for a reply. But hey at least they reply right? Better late then never? Heh.

    Also I should note that Steam's version of my hours played is totally inaccurate. I own two collector's edition of this game that I had to buy before this game was ever free to play. Before this game was ever even on Steam.

     

    Exactly as I said.  You asked the question but you already knew the answer.

     

    Nice agenda buddy.

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • DrannyDranny Member UncommonPosts: 279

    Paid-for gear. Yes gear can be bought in game which is always one tier behind the current raid. can also be obtained via actual game play.

    Paid-for bag slots. Yes you have to pay for bags slots. Yes you can buy bags slots with what used to be base games of Rift collectors edition etc etc.

    Paid-for bank vaults. Yes you have to pay for extra bank slots and bag slots in your bank.


    Paid-for boosters. yes you have to pay for boosts in the game, these can also be obtained via shard shops but sure and ask for a trusted seller first.


    Paid-for mounts/pets/minions. Yes there are some mounts and pets you can buy, but there are also plenty of which can be bought for in game currency including the fastest mounts in the game.


    Paid-for instant level 60. this is part of the newest expansion although the expansion itself is free they are selling special editions packs for the expansion which contain a level 60 boost which can be sold in game via trade or the AH


    Paid-for class specs. there are currently two extra souls for each class which are being sold, the storm legion souls from the last expansion and the new nightmare tide souls they come in a bundle one for each class in each bundle. but you get 9 souls (classes) free with each class and there is no need for the extra souls.


    Paid-for auction house. Yes you have to pay for the use of the AH they didn't want to give gold traders scamers and whoever else might want to ruin the game access so they put a small price on the use of the AH, there is still a trade channel which you can use to sell your items.


    Paid-for achievement rewards. This I have not noticed till it was mentioned here I guess it would only effect you if you really wanted to be a completeist played since launch and never needed to pay for any achievement reward yet.

    I did quickly check out some of these items listed under the trophies section. you get these items for rewards when you complete the said achievement and then you can also buy more for other characters you make on your account once you have unlocked them.

    So you only have to pay for them for other characters if you want them to have them.

     

    If you want to try this game then do so it is free and there is a lot of it you get for free. yes you do have to pay for some things but if it was completely free how long do you think a game would last with no money for it run.

     

    P.S. Forgot to mention for all the items that require credits which has to be bought with real life cash you can still get for free via in game play and currency there is an item call REX which is bought by people for real life cash and sold for in game currency, So you can get everything for free with some effort.

  • DrannyDranny Member UncommonPosts: 279
    Snip

     

     

    So multiple accounts in WoW being boxed is not P2W?

    You mean this guy boxing 15 accounts has no competitive advantage vs someone playing a single account in WoW?

    Seriously?

    See for yourself:

    http://youtu.be/hafIyIAtKy0

    Just so you know, you can't multibox in pvp any more in wow on this scale. they removed follow from all instance pvp.

  • mrneurosismrneurosis Member UncommonPosts: 306
    I still play this game every single day and i can assure you there is nothing P2W about this game. In game shop sells nothing but fluff items.
  • DrannyDranny Member UncommonPosts: 279
    Snip

    Thanks - i havent played wow since 2004 so i am not up on the latest changes.

    I see videos on YouTube of folks multiboxing instances in Draenor so I am assuming PvE is not affected.

    Regardless my point remains - 

    Yes they can still box pve and open world. I think there is a few who still multibox instanced pvp but with reduced number due do how it can be managed now. 

    I think they allow it in arenas still due to it being an organised pvp or something to that effect for them to allow it.

  • TypososTyposos Member UncommonPosts: 39
    Originally posted by gw2fool

    I was checking this game out on steam and most of the comments are negative, saying that the last update made it so p2w that it is not worth playing any more, it this true?

    I havn't played it for a while and don't think I will bother downloading the update if it is p2w

    2 of my friends paided 20 euro to the game , for some extra bags boosts etc , i am better geared than them and got better raiding spot in our raid guild.I paid 0 euros.Its total free to play but there is some options if u want to help the game to stay alive.

  • 5ubzer05ubzer0 Member UncommonPosts: 72
    Originally posted by gw2fool

    What I meant by p2w is the following review left by a person on steam, I guess they could be ranting it even says so at then end, but why write such crap if its not true?

    Since everybody and their mom has commented here now and been unable to convince you either way, why not download the game and see for yourself?

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,429
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by laserit
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by laserit
    Originally posted by Sector13
    MMORPG.com logic : F2P = P2W, no exceptions (unless I like the game) but no exceptions!

    50 year old, educated, self employed, business owner's logic : 

     

    If a game gives you a competitive advantage, by spending real money in a cash shop or any other type of purchasing mechanic. That is supplied or condoned by the supplier of said game.

     

    The game is P2W

    By this definition every single MMO in existance is pay to win. Really? I disagree

    Multiple accounts in WoW - pay to win. Hmm how so? I'll just grab a buddy, fair and square... 2 toons against 2 toons, you know... 2 heads are better than one and all that jazz.

    Buying fully end game geared character for real money - pay to win. I agree

    Buying  boosted level 90 character - pay to win. Nah... I don't believe thats P2W and I also believes it's bullshit. I believe that after you've leveled to cap a couple times you should be able to use this service for FREE 

    How about paying for a power leveling service - pay to win? Nah... thats called CHEATING. Unless it's condoned by the game company in which case its P2W as I already stated.

     

    See - its a horrible definition. I'm 100% sure I didn't cover every circumstance but I believe it's quite a good definition. You are of course... completely free to disagree.

     

    Reality - the true pay to win MMOs - are almost non existent. Ramblings of a P2W addict

     

    Pay to faster is not pay to win.  Keep on telling yourself that.

    edit: This needs more elaboration. In some games Pay to faster is not P2W but in other games it is a form of P2W  such as games where there is a land rush where there is a limited amount of land and ownership of that land gives you a competitive advantage over players without land.  etc. etc.

     

     

     

    Pay to win - cash shop sells gear and abilities that trump everything else in game and can ONLY be obtained by spending cash. Pretty slim definition.

    That IMO is pay to win, again I am not aware of any MMOs that do that. Opinions are a good thing are'nt they.

     

    Round and round we go.....

     

    I'm starting to think that you believe in your own bullshit. 

     

     

     

    In WoW I used to have 5 accounts. One for me and one for each of my four kids. Good thing they are all grown up now (a lot cheaper on the pocket book) P2W? i don't think so. P2Live and entertain the family is a better definition.

     

     

    So multiple accounts in WoW being boxed is not P2W?

    You mean this guy boxing 15 accounts has no competitive advantage vs someone playing a single account in WoW?

    Seriously?

    See for yourself:

    http://youtu.be/hafIyIAtKy0

    I call it P2CHEAT

     

    Better have a talk with all them Granny's in the Bingo Hall playing 35 bingo cards. I find them just as skilled and a lot more fasinating. 

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,799
    Rift probably has one of if not the best FTP models out there. Fun game.

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