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Example of a Realistic art-style for EQN?

NitthNitth Member UncommonPosts: 3,904


For people that don't like the stylized art, Can you give an example of how an realistic EQN "should" look?

Just Curious.

image
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  • ChinspinnerChinspinner Member Posts: 31
    Originally posted by Nitth


    For people that don't like the stylized art, Can you give an example of how an realistic EQN "should" look?

    Just Curious.

    No 

  • LegacyGameLegacyGame Member UncommonPosts: 132
    Originally posted by Chinspinner
    Originally posted by Nitth


    For people that don't like the stylized art, Can you give an example of how an realistic EQN "should" look?

    Just Curious.

    No 

    Forum interactions in a nutshell and we wonder why developers don't like engaging communities on the forums ;D

    I think stylized art looks great, most of the EQ stuff looks good, there's just some things (like kerran faces) that are unappealing. If they didn't go with stylized art then probably this?:

     

     

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,088

    While I can't speak for anyone else, I'm assuming it is something along the lines of these games, which to me all have the same forgettable fantasy look to them. Yes they look good, but none really stand out to me where I can really see the unique qualities.

    Tech limitations are also a big deal, where most of these games are single/small group and not mmos. TESO is just blah to me, yet finds the balance of being a "realistic" look and being a mmorpg. Black Desert looks great when you zoom in on models, but in regular game play (what we do 99.99% of the time), it looks like any other Eastern mmo/game, simply with a higher poly count or whatever.

    I think people on the anti-stylized train, want more of a fantasy sim where they are able to be their mature selves in a world that fits them. Hard to do in a game that can easily be compared to Disney. Not easy to be virtual macho (because all gamers are in real life) when everything is sunshine and rainbows.

    All these games and styles have their place, just as EQN does. Everything doesn't have to be the same. Unfortunately, it is hard to get a game that hits all the bullet points we are seeking and in this case I've seen many that are interested in EQN's game play, but can't get behind the art.

    Not to mention voxels and the tier system that EQN will have. Guessing it would be hard to do that along with these styles. Then again, I'm sure plenty would love SOE to scrap all of that and just go the pretty route. No need to step outside the box because being the same has proven to be what we all play for so long...

    If you don't know this one....shame!

    Witcher 3

    Black Desert

    Dragon Age Inquisition

    TESO..not the best pic, but funny to me =)

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852

    good screenshots Allein

         I like that style, but..     But would having detain graphics like that be more a technical hindrance, then a bonus..  To me content and gameplay is what really matters, and eye candy down further on the list..  It is why I hate combat that has firework animations, as it stresses graphic cards too much..  I want to see and feel raid size groups in close proximity without the unwanted lag..  My preference is stylized art, as it reflects something in the middle between cartoony and realistic..

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Originally posted by Nitth


    For people that don't like the stylized art, Can you give an example of how an realistic EQN "should" look?

    Just Curious.

    Yeah, post away!!!! 

     

    All the nice, pretty pics are great. I actually just finished up SoM and I must say that it was superb. Maybe a little anti-climactic at the end, but I won't ruin the let-down for anyone. I've pre-ordered The Witcher 3. I've pre-ordered DA:I. 

     

    That being said, I am still very critical of realistic graphics. It's not because of stills, though. It's never really about the stills, it's about the animations. This is where stylized graphics actually have an advantage. It's very much in our brain, though, it's not necessarily that stylized are implemented any better, they just get creative liberties because our brains accept that it's not real, whereas with realistic graphics we don't make the same exceptions. Also, our brain picks up on issues with realistic animations more easily since we have very clearly defined expectations about how something moves. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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  • KabulozoKabulozo Member UncommonPosts: 884

    Like Lineage Eternal.

     

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,088
    Originally posted by Prenho3

    Like Lineage Eternal.

    You mean the poster art or actual game play aka Diablo 3 + mmo? Not sure if the game itself falls in the "realistic" art category. I'll probably give it a go, but click click click games get my wrists crying.

  • KabulozoKabulozo Member UncommonPosts: 884
    Originally posted by Allein
    Originally posted by Prenho3

    Like Lineage Eternal.

    You mean the poster art or actual game play aka Diablo 3 + mmo? Not sure if the game itself falls in the "realistic" art category. I'll probably give it a go, but click click click games get my wrists crying.

    I'm talking about the artstyle as the concept art I posted. Much better than the Disneyquest Next.

  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,413

    Its really very simple.  Stop exaggerating features.  Bam, problem solved.  No more eyes twice the size of normal eyes.  No more shoulder armor that if you actually leaned your head one way or the other you would impale your face on spikes or slice it open with sharp edges.  No more gorilla arms/legs/feet/hands.  Less super bright primary colors/pastels, more earth tones and realistic colors.

    The sad part is they can still have a cool stylized art style while not making it look so damn ridiculous.  But, they wanted to copy WOW, and they bought into that garbage about how that art style "ages better".  Which is total crap.

    But, in the end, i've literally 0 intention of playing this game, so its 6 of one half a dozen to me.  I'm no worse off than i was before.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 10,992
    Originally posted by Allein

    While I can't speak for anyone else, I'm assuming it is something along the lines of these games, which to me all have the same forgettable fantasy look to them. Yes they look good, but none really stand out to me where I can really see the unique qualities.

    Tech limitations are also a big deal, where most of these games are single/small group and not mmos. TESO is just blah to me, yet finds the balance of being a "realistic" look and being a mmorpg. Black Desert looks great when you zoom in on models, but in regular game play (what we do 99.99% of the time), it looks like any other Eastern mmo/game, simply with a higher poly count or whatever.

    I think people on the anti-stylized train, want more of a fantasy sim where they are able to be their mature selves in a world that fits them. Hard to do in a game that can easily be compared to Disney. Not easy to be virtual macho (because all gamers are in real life) when everything is sunshine and rainbows.

    All these games and styles have their place, just as EQN does. Everything doesn't have to be the same. Unfortunately, it is hard to get a game that hits all the bullet points we are seeking and in this case I've seen many that are interested in EQN's game play, but can't get behind the art.

    Not to mention voxels and the tier system that EQN will have. Guessing it would be hard to do that along with these styles. Then again, I'm sure plenty would love SOE to scrap all of that and just go the pretty route. No need to step outside the box because being the same has proven to be what we all play for so long...

    If you don't know this one....shame!

    Witcher 3

    Black Desert

    Dragon Age Inquisition

    TESO..not the best pic, but funny to me =)

    Good examples really, and while i do like the aesthetics of ESO, the game play was just not fun for me. i think Wildstar may well turn out to be just an example of why players don't particularly like these overly stylised graphics, they do look cartoony, and i don't think on the whole that they appeal to the majority of the 'older' gamers, i may be wrong, but it would explain why perhaps Wildstar failed so badly

     While i wouldn't expect an MMO to achieve the level of detail of games like Shadow of Mordor, i think the style of the graphics themselves also were part of the games success. I do think that the heavily stylised graphics are less appealing generally, and not just to the 'older' player, and while younger players might react favourably to the 'disney' look, thats not to say that they also wouldn't prefer something more 'natural' looking.

     SOE may not have a choice at this point, but its probably going to have them more than a little concerned that the games image is already looking a bit 'naff',  i wouldn't even rule out SOE doing a 'Titan' on EQN, it might work out cheaper in the long run, and i have to wonder if Blizzard themselves canned Titan for the same reason.image

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,088
    Originally posted by Prenho3
    Originally posted by Allein
    Originally posted by Prenho3

    Like Lineage Eternal.

    You mean the poster art or actual game play aka Diablo 3 + mmo? Not sure if the game itself falls in the "realistic" art category. I'll probably give it a go, but click click click games get my wrists crying.

    I'm talking about the artstyle as the concept art I posted. Much better than the Disneyquest Next.

    I assumed so, but concept art =/= game art unfortunately.

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,088
    Originally posted by Hrimnir

    Its really very simple.  Stop exaggerating features.  Bam, problem solved.  No more eyes twice the size of normal eyes.  No more shoulder armor that if you actually leaned your head one way or the other you would impale your face on spikes or slice it open with sharp edges.  No more gorilla arms/legs/feet/hands.  Less super bright primary colors/pastels, more earth tones and realistic colors.

    The sad part is they can still have a cool stylized art style while not making it look so damn ridiculous.  But, they wanted to copy WOW, and they bought into that garbage about how that art style "ages better".  Which is total crap.

    But, in the end, i've literally 0 intention of playing this game, so its 6 of one half a dozen to me.  I'm no worse off than i was before.

    So basically your are suggesting the game looks like those I posted above which vary very little? Again, they all look great, but I bet someone unfamiliar could easily be confused as to which game is which. The whole gorilla/bright style is to go along with the "heroic" design theme.

    Could you give some examples of "cool stylized art" that doesn't have bright and or slightly unrealistic dimensions? Actually think the humans look fairly normal and I'm glad the non-humans actually look like different races, not just human + animal head or whatever.

     

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,771

    This

    instead of 

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,088
    Originally posted by Phry

    Good examples really, and while i do like the aesthetics of ESO, the game play was just not fun for me. i think Wildstar may well turn out to be just an example of why players don't particularly like these overly stylised graphics, they do look cartoony, and i don't think on the whole that they appeal to the majority of the 'older' gamers, i may be wrong, but it would explain why perhaps Wildstar failed so badly

     While i wouldn't expect an MMO to achieve the level of detail of games like Shadow of Mordor, i think the style of the graphics themselves also were part of the games success. I do think that the heavily stylised graphics are less appealing generally, and not just to the 'older' player, and while younger players might react favourably to the 'disney' look, thats not to say that they also wouldn't prefer something more 'natural' looking.

     SOE may not have a choice at this point, but its probably going to have them more than a little concerned that the games image is already looking a bit 'naff',  i wouldn't even rule out SOE doing a 'Titan' on EQN, it might work out cheaper in the long run, and i have to wonder if Blizzard themselves canned Titan for the same reason.image

    While I can't say one way or another why WIldstar "failed" (not sure how that is determined anyway), I'm going with WoW 2.0 simply isn't as exciting as it sounded to all the grindy/raiders out there. The art style is also dated. Not terrible, but compare WoW/Wildstar to EQN and for me it is no contest as far as detail and "life" between them. Wildstar shares the same bland, life less look that all the "realistic" games have. Too bad the game doesn't look like the cinematics.

    The "older" gamers need to realize they aren't the only target for games anymore. WoW changed that forever. I'm an "older" gamer and wouldn't mind a SOM looking mmorpg, but I'm betting there are plenty of different demos of players that wouldn't want their mmo to be brown and then more brown, with some green.

    Luckily for EQN's future, SOE is smart enough to know that there are gamers out there beyond the 30-40+ male, dark/gritty, "realistic" type. 

  • GiffenGiffen Member UncommonPosts: 276
    Originally posted by bcbully

    This

    instead of 

    Exactly!

    It makes me want to vomit what they did to the EQ franchise with the Disney art style.

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,088
    Originally posted by bcbully

    This

    Hopefully SOE has learned their lesson and they've already said the Kerran is a WIP, along with the armor and what not. The concept art they've shown since then is much improved and quite different then Tony.

    While TESO looks good overall, I'm a fan of races actually being different instead of the human + cat head + tail = new race. It works and many games do it, but doesn't really scream original to me.

    Also would rather have some what over the top armor if it goes along with the design philosophy (heroic) instead of a lot of painted on armor skins. Not down WoW's path with 5' shoulders, but a little flash can add to the game when done right.

    Oh well, good think there is a long list of games that share exactly what many of you are looking for when it comes to art style.

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,088

    He's very opinionated, but I can't really disagree with a lot of what he says in this area.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w36385GeQOU

    "Because....Skyrim"

    Honestly would like to hear some responses to his rant. Stepping beyond the "me me me" POV, I can't figure out why people think another generic fantasy mmorpg would be a hit (which is SOE goal). Not to say a super cartoony approach will have any more success, but simply by looking at games and fans within the mmorpg genre and other genres that SOE is trying to tap, I can't see any reason they would go for TESO 2.0. The reach EQN's style has is far greater then the games I posted above.

  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,616

    http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/Vectus_2006/20110708-092438.jpg

    Or I dunno.. What they already had prior to deciding to rip off Disney? Not hyper realistic but definitely not Disney either. It is almost as if SOE didnt want to bother to come up with their own style so they decided to rip off something that was popular.. Disney style.

  • iridescenceiridescence Member UncommonPosts: 1,552
    Originally posted by Allein

    He's very opinionated, but I can't really disagree with a lot of what he says in this area.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w36385GeQOU

    "Because....Skyrim"

    Honestly would like to hear some responses to his rant. Stepping beyond the "me me me" POV, I can't figure out why people think another generic fantasy mmorpg would be a hit (which is SOE goal). Not to say a super cartoony approach will have any more success, but simply by looking at games and fans within the mmorpg genre and other genres that SOE is trying to tap, I can't see any reason they would go for TESO 2.0. The reach EQN's style has is far greater then the games I posted above.

    Guy in the video is a douche who makes ridiculous statements. Where is the proof that bright colors and cartoons make more people want to play games? If he can say people like Skyrim for other reasons I can say people like WoW for other reasons.

    It comes down to personal choice. I don't watch cartoons and I don't really like playing games with them in. I'm trying to immerse myself in these worlds not recapture my childhood or whatever. I'm not saying people who like cartoons in games are wrong but there's no evidence that just having cartoons in games makes them more popular except maybe with people with garbage PCs who can't run games with good graphics.

     

     

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,088
    Originally posted by iridescence

    Guy in the video is a douche who makes ridiculous statements. Where is the proof that bright colors and cartoons make more people want to play games? If he can say people like Skyrim for other reasons I can say people like WoW for other reasons.

    It comes down to personal choice. I don't watch cartoons and I don't really like playing games with them in. I'm trying to immerse myself in these worlds not recapture my childhood or whatever. I'm not saying people who like cartoons in games are wrong but there's no evidence that just having cartoons in games makes them more popular except maybe with people with garbage PCs who can't run games with good graphics.

    While proof is hard to come by, the numbers are pretty clear. Obviously there is a long list of reasons people play games, art style is usually the gate way into them. If you look at something and are disgusted, probably going to be very hard to ever even try the game, despite it's gameplay. Which is what he was getting at I believe. Any art style can be attached to a high quality experience, but the visuals are what get people through the door initially and can influence them sticking around.

    While sports, military, racing, and dark/realistic games are hugely popular, they don't really compare to Nintendo, Blizzard, MOBAs, Final Fantasy, The Sims, Minecraft, along with many other popular games/franchises. Someone can go back and play Mario Galaxy after playing part 2, how often do people go back and play Madden 2012 or old Elder Scrolls games?

    You might not like cartoons, but Dinsey, Pixar, Dreamworks, Marvel (real life cartoons), Comics, Cartoon Network, Anime... seem to be doing just fine without you.

    I don't believe WoW's art style made it such a success, but if it had looked like TESO, I'd bet it wouldn't have done nearly as well. Other way around, I doubt TESO would have 10+ million subs if it looked like WoW. Too many factors, but art style cant be totally ignored for having an impact.

    At the end of the day, I think it comes down to gameplay. I'll never play a game only for the art style. While I might let my eyes suffer if the experience is worth it. If EQN can bring a quality experience, it will get those that are willing to accept the Disney look and those that actually like it, which I'm betting is quite a few people overall. Only ones losing are those probably going from one game to the next because it is "better" due to poly count or whatever. Then again I found MUDs to be more enjoyable then many games in the last 20 years so I might be an oddball.

  • iridescenceiridescence Member UncommonPosts: 1,552
    Originally posted by Allein
     

    While proof is hard to come by, the numbers are pretty clear. Obviously there is a long list of reasons people play games, art style is usually the gate way into them. If you look at something and are disgusted, probably going to be very hard to ever even try the game, despite it's gameplay. Which is what he was getting at I believe. Any art style can be attached to a high quality experience, but the visuals are what get people through the door initially and can influence them sticking around.

    While sports, military, racing, and dark/realistic games are hugely popular, they don't really compare to Nintendo, Blizzard, MOBAs, Final Fantasy, The Sims, Minecraft, along with many other popular games/franchises. Someone can go back and play Mario Galaxy after playing part 2, how often do people go back and play Madden 2012 or old Elder Scrolls games?

    I think they are all popular games. People are still playing Skyrim 3 years after it come out to the point where it is often in the top 25 games played on Steam and don't see why they will suddenly stop any time soon . I know a lot of people go back and play Morrowind even to this day (Oblivion probably not as much but that's more on the gameplay.) Sure, those cartoony games you listed are also popular games but not really more popular at least not vastly so. 

      

    You might not like cartoons, but Dinsey, Pixar, Dreamworks, Marvel (real life cartoons), Comics, Cartoon Network, Anime... seem to be doing just fine without you.

    Agreed but there are plenty of realistic movies and what not that do really well too which is why I said it comes down to personal preference. 

    I don't believe WoW's art style made it such a success, but if it had looked like TESO, I'd bet it wouldn't have done nearly as well. Other way around, I doubt TESO would have 10+ million subs if it looked like WoW. Too many factors, but art style cant be totally ignored for having an impact.

    I don't believe there is any evidence that WoW's artstyle made it a success other than allowing it to run on a wider variety of computers . How many times do you hear people talking about how amazing WoW's visuals are? Most like it for other reasons.

    I'm not saying that a lot of people don't like the cartoon stuff or that there's anything wrong with having that preference but I do object to the way the guy in the video was claiming that it's obvious that most people prefer a cartoon style. It's not "obvious" to me at all.

     

    At the end of the day, I think it comes down to gameplay. I'll never play a game only for the art style. While I might let my eyes suffer if the experience is worth it. If EQN can bring a quality experience, it will get those that are willing to accept the Disney look and those that actually like it, which I'm betting is quite a few people overall. Only ones losing are those probably going from one game to the next because it is "better" due to poly count or whatever. Then again I found MUDs to be more enjoyable then many games in the last 20 years so I might be an oddball.

    I'll play a game with terrible "realistic" graphics (currently I'm playing a lot of DDO). DDO is actually far more immersive to me than Wildstar despite the fact that W* has way better fidelity. I'm aware that's probably a particular strong preference on my part though. If EQ:N is heavily cartoon it'll turn me off a bit but I'll still play it if the gameplay is good I guess.

     

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,168
    Originally posted by Giffen
    Originally posted by bcbully

    This

    instead of 

    Exactly!

    It makes me want to vomit what they did to the EQ franchise with the Disney art style.

    ESOs face is much better, but the painted on armor -no thanks 

    Then again EQNs over exaggerated armor is not appealing to me.

     

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,168
    Originally posted by Nadia

    images from 2011 -- before it was scrapped

    http://www.eqnforum.com/threads/eqnext-screen-shots-and-concept-art-update-obsolete-as-of-2012.11/#post-2278

    '

    This IMO looked better than anything after the revamp.

     

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,088
    Originally posted by iridescence

     If EQ:N is heavily cartoon it'll turn me off a bit but I'll still play it if the gameplay is good I guess.

    I think that is pretty much the conclusion many will come to.

    It's hard to accept, but the games I posted above are simply geared towards a smaller group. No different then fantasy movies that despite being "good", make little at the box office because they only appeal to a small crowd. Good luck getting Aunt Susan to go watch Gladiator without tossing in some eye candy actors.

    SOE could of went after the die hard EQ fans or mature fantasy crowd, but they want to make money, plain and simple. Only way they are going to bring in young/old, vets/noobs, casual/hardcore, and various gaming backgrounds is to make it as accessible as possible.

    He mentioned in the video that stylized/cartoony graphics appeal to soccer moms, younger/older generations, and larger demographics. While we personally might not care if Jane the soccer mom plays EQN, I'm betting SOE does. EQ games have always been accessible to a variety of folks (at least over time they have), no clue why EQN would go for a limited fan base now. They are in the business of making money, not making sure some of our personal tastes are catered to, especially when after all the huffing and puffing is over with, most will still give it a try.

    Which is why I get a kick out of some of the very critical folks, even those that swear they won't play EQN, still spend time commenting and complaining about a game they aren't going to play. Bluffing online doesn't accomplish much. Even if they uninstall after 5 minutes of playing, over time enough people will stick around that those turning their backs won't count for much.

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