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Dang, I think this game might be dying on the Vine!

135

Comments

  • pingopingo Member UncommonPosts: 608

    I agree about the massive red flags. My limited time with Landmark left a shockingly bad impression. I jut didn't understand why the placeholder stuff, the UI the way things worked.. This was the level of quality I expected of a project 3-months into development, not something you sell as a tool for other people to make content for you. 

     

    The problem, and the thing that blows my mind is that, with Titan cancelled, there is literally no other big MMORPG on the horizon. MMORPGs have lost their stream. MOBA's is the new thing, and I understand why. 

    So many MMORPGs post-WoW have been disappointing. There has been a lot of value and a lot of broken promises, and I feel like we're looking into the future for MMO hybrids, but not MMORPGs as we have known them so far. 

    And I don't see Korea changing the game up over here, as long as we have these crazy translation barriers between us. Their games need to be over here right away, nor 2-4 years after its been out in Korea. There has to be an easier way to do localization and patches and make a truly international MMORPG more compelling. 

     

     

    I really might think that MMORPGs die with Guild Wars 2 for me. Some company would have to announce some completely revolutionary new project that runs on some new engine / netcode that allows for gameplay we havent seen before. Almost everyone I know are now playing DOTA/LOL or something like that.

  • bingbongbrosbingbongbros Member UncommonPosts: 689
    Originally posted by Spankster77

    For starters we are talking about SoE which is the same company that completely ruined Vanguard. 

    WHA?!!?!?! Are you insane or just lying to yourself about the history of Vanguard.  Brad's company shit the bed completely with VG, the game barely even worked at all at launch.  And literally the only reason why it survived as long as it did was because Smed is friends with Brad and did him a huge favor by convincing the Sony execs to take it over.

     

    Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
    Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
    Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.

  • TibbzTibbz Member UncommonPosts: 613
    Originally posted by pingo

    I agree about the massive red flags. My limited time with Landmark left a shockingly bad impression. I jut didn't understand why the placeholder stuff, the UI the way things worked.. This was the level of quality I expected of a project 3-months into development, not something you sell as a tool for other people to make content for you. 

     

    The problem, and the thing that blows my mind is that, with Titan cancelled, there is literally no other big MMORPG on the horizon. MMORPGs have lost their stream. MOBA's is the new thing, and I understand why. 

    So many MMORPGs post-WoW have been disappointing. There has been a lot of value and a lot of broken promises, and I feel like we're looking into the future for MMO hybrids, but not MMORPGs as we have known them so far. 

    And I don't see Korea changing the game up over here, as long as we have these crazy translation barriers between us. Their games need to be over here right away, nor 2-4 years after its been out in Korea. There has to be an easier way to do localization and patches and make a truly international MMORPG more compelling. 

     

     

    I really might think that MMORPGs die with Guild Wars 2 for me. Some company would have to announce some completely revolutionary new project that runs on some new engine / netcode that allows for gameplay we havent seen before. Almost everyone I know are now playing DOTA/LOL or something like that.

    +1 on this.  Seems that most games are moving to a  hybrid / lobby style "mmo."  I think I have played new MMOs post EQ/EQ2 for maybe 2-4 months at a time.  Funny thing is I will go back to EQ1 / EQ2 and a lil wow now and again and play it longer than that.  Been spending 5 months so far in EQEMU THF.  Part of me thinks that all this new and improved does not work at all.  Wonder what would happen if they just made a EQ1 recreated.  Still keeping an optimistic  eye on EQN though. 

    image
  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798
    Originally posted by bcbully

    If SOE just would have came out and said "We have this cool building program that we are using to build EQN. It's years away from being feature complete, but we want to invite you guys to join us on our journey" w/o all the over hype and vague statements they would have been much better off.

     i agree with your assessment

     

  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,680
    I have too say i'm shocked reading this thread. I thought this game was the it game for everyone here. For me the fact that it was SOE made me not believe the hype.
  • alyndalealyndale Member UncommonPosts: 936

    I think I feel pretty much the same way as many on this forum.

    SoE seems to have bungled some opportunities here, but I can't really put my finger on specifically what is going on. Maybe it's because I do not see any transparency or consistency of transparency.

    We have been told, more or less, that landmark is somehow key to "part" of the foundational development of EQ Next. Then as of the last SoE Live and subsequent roundtables, it is not all that clear, at least to me, how Landmark ties in other than roundtable surveys and then discussion.

    As of now, there is very little evidence to show. Maybe, in the long run, that's a good thing. However, a part of me wishes they hadn't built it up as much as they have. We don't know if EQ Next is 10%, 30%, or 50% complete. Heck they might not even have 10% of the game's assets committed to as of this month.

    Landmark is the key here in many ways, I think. For sure, Landmark needs to be completed and I feel it needs finishing within a fair amount of time. I would be happy to see it at least make some kind of open beta before June, 2015. But, who knows really. Once the sandbox is completed, they more or less have to commit 100% of the team to polishing and finishing what they have started.

    I still have some faith in the product, but not as much as I did this time last year. If we don't hear something solid, honest, and transparent by summer of 2015, my faith will dwindle to near 0.

    Alyn

    All I want is the truth
    Just gimme some truth
    John Lennon

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    Originally posted by Hariken
    I have too say i'm shocked reading this thread. I thought this game was the it game for everyone here. For me the fact that it was SOE made me not believe the hype.

    I think that pure company hate is too ethereal for most people to base an opinion of a game. But if you play Landmark and watch what they are making for EQNext you get a face full of something that you have to try to like, not something that you instinctively want to play.

    I think EQNext could be one of those research projects that is the stepping stone to a later success, but on its own never hits the mark.

    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • NagilumSadowNagilumSadow Member UncommonPosts: 318
    Originally posted by Coated

    The game play video is what did it for me. Watched it and nearly fell asleep from boredom. I don't care what kind of excuse people make, that is what the game will look like. That is how it will be. Alpha or not, the games never change much from that first game play video.

    Also, I am sick and tired of this 'WOW'ish' art style. I didn't even touch Wildstar because of it and I'm thinking it is going to be the same for EQN. This cartoony style really needs to die.

     

    Though I'm reluctant, I agree with you 100% on the art style, especially the characters. Though I love the systems as described to date, the cartoony look just doesn't win me over.

     

  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,686

    FOrgive me if it's already been mentioned in this thread, but the community manager for EQ:N recently left explicitly because he disagreed with SoE explicitly on how he felt the community should be involved in the design process a lot, while they disagreed.  If I recall correctly.

     

    In light of that, isn't it obvious why there's so much less news and discussion on this game being fostered by SoE?

  • caveogre72caveogre72 Member UncommonPosts: 30

    could not agree more on how cartoon graphics need to go away!

    I laughed at WoW when it came out, then years later, tried it finally, the game was actually very smooth, but the graphics were horrid to me, you get used to it after a while, but why would you really want to? It's like training your nose to ignore bad B.O. it stinks but you do your best not to notice. .... who wants to smell B.O. all the time?

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    Originally posted by caveogre72

    could not agree more on how cartoon graphics need to go away!

    I laughed at WoW when it came out, then years later, tried it finally, the game was actually very smooth, but the graphics were horrid to me, you get used to it after a while, but why would you really want to? It's like training your nose to ignore bad B.O. it stinks but you do your best not to notice. .... who wants to smell B.O. all the time?

    This exactly. Why hamstring your product with an ugly face? Pure stupidity. And the excuse of "WoW did it," is a terrible argument. Why make a revolutionary game but then copy WoW on graphics?  WoW is WoW, nothing else is. Period.

     

    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • alyndalealyndale Member UncommonPosts: 936
    Originally posted by TiamatRoar

    FOrgive me if it's already been mentioned in this thread, but the community manager for EQ:N recently left explicitly because he disagreed with SoE explicitly on how he felt the community should be involved in the design process a lot, while they disagreed.  If I recall correctly.

     

    In light of that, isn't it obvious why there's so much less news and discussion on this game being fostered by SoE?

    Hey TiamatRoar,

    Here's an article from a reputable source. Omeed Dariani left for philosophical difference that centered around the community following EQ Next. Other than that it was kept out of the limelight out of repect, to some degree for Ommed and his respect for his team mates at SoE.

    here is the Massively article; http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/09/23/why-omeed-dariani-left-everquest-next/

    Hope this helps...

    Alyn

    All I want is the truth
    Just gimme some truth
    John Lennon

  • XiaokiXiaoki Member EpicPosts: 3,907


    Originally posted by Archlyte
    Originally posted by caveogre72 could not agree more on how cartoon graphics need to go away! I laughed at WoW when it came out, then years later, tried it finally, the game was actually very smooth, but the graphics were horrid to me, you get used to it after a while, but why would you really want to? It's like training your nose to ignore bad B.O. it stinks but you do your best not to notice. .... who wants to smell B.O. all the time?
    This exactly. Why hamstring your product with an ugly face? Pure stupidity. And the excuse of "WoW did it," is a terrible argument. Why make a revolutionary game but then copy WoW on graphics?  WoW is WoW, nothing else is. Period.

     



    Yeah, because WoW invented cartoonish graphics.

    Ugh.

  • alyndalealyndale Member UncommonPosts: 936

    To add another observation about the frustration, I feel due to some lapses in transparency, Brian "Psychochild" Green left not only any slight affiliation to SoE, but the Storybricks company. Again he has remained fairly quite about his reasons for leaving. However, having visited his blog, through the years, I know that he tended not to stay in any one place for too long.

    I would tend to think this was an important gig for Brian. He was very enthusiastic about the direction EQ Next could take the mmo genre, however he wasn't apparently directly involved with storybricks' developmental part of the mmo. Why would he leave? Could be many things, but my first educated guess is somehow his philosophy of game play came into conflict with either Rodolfo Rosini or lead designer Stephane Bura, both of Storybricks fame. I don't know this for sure, it could have been that the storybricks part of EQ Next was evolving in a way that meant it would be of lesser importance in relationship with NPC's and he wasn't part of the decision making process.  I'm just simply not sure, like many of the mysteries that seem to surround the making of this mmo.

    Last time, I had checked on Brian he was working with Mark Jacobs and the Camelot Unchained project.

    Alyn

    All I want is the truth
    Just gimme some truth
    John Lennon

  • Moar61Moar61 Member UncommonPosts: 260
    I don't mind the art style but I literally couldn't force myself to play Landmark, not sure what that means for EQN
  • CoNk3rCoNk3r Member UncommonPosts: 70

    Based on LandMark, i think that for me at least EQN will be visually a flop.

    The longer it takes them to release the game, the faster the this "new art style" of LandMark will wear off, it will certainly not appeal to the masses anymore. Visually i find LandMark now to be dated, very much... and unless they 180' and announce UE4 support, EQN will sadly copy the LandMark Looks ... my bet is that this game wont see the lights ´til 2016 (easily)

     

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by Moar61
    I don't mind the art style but I literally couldn't force myself to play Landmark, not sure what that means for EQN

    Given what happened to Wildstar i think we can make an educated 'guess' image

     

    The question is though, if they do make the game less 'Cartoony' would it make any difference ? image

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by Archlyte

    Originally posted by caveogre72 could not agree more on how cartoon graphics need to go away! I laughed at WoW when it came out, then years later, tried it finally, the game was actually very smooth, but the graphics were horrid to me, you get used to it after a while, but why would you really want to? It's like training your nose to ignore bad B.O. it stinks but you do your best not to notice. .... who wants to smell B.O. all the time?
    This exactly. Why hamstring your product with an ugly face? Pure stupidity. And the excuse of "WoW did it," is a terrible argument. Why make a revolutionary game but then copy WoW on graphics?  WoW is WoW, nothing else is. Period.

     

     


    Yeah, because WoW invented cartoonish graphics.

     

    Ugh.

    No, WoW invented pulling giant numbers of people to the genre. What's your point?

     

    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    Cartoony-type graphics dominate the PC game market according to most lists. LoL, WoW, D3, and Hearthstone. These are all titles in Raptrs top 10 for September, the first three in the top four... All with cartoon type graphics. I believe most like a smoother look and a small minority get hung up on this sort of thing. After all, even if the style is not 100% desirable to someone a bright, soft palette is easy on the eyes... Eyes that may play for hours at a time.

    There may end up being details SoE gets wrong regarding Landmark and EQN but the art style they chose will not be one of them.
  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Member UncommonPosts: 1,989
    Originally posted by Aelious
    Cartoony-type graphics dominate the PC game market according to most lists. LoL, WoW, D3, Hearthstone, etc. These are all titles in Raptrs top 9, the first three in the top four... All with cartoon type graphics. I believe most like a smoother look and a small minority get hung up on this sort of thing. After all, even if the style is not 100% desirable to someone a bright, soft palette is easy on the eyes... Eyes that may play for hours at a time.

    There may end up being details SoE gets wrong regarding Landmark and EQN but the art style they chose will not be one of them.

    D3? Cartoony? News to me.

     

     

    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    Eh, cartoony-ish. It's a gradient and subjective to the viewer of course. Honestly I don't think the graphics for EQN/LM are THAT cartoony either but they certainly aren't realistic.
  • XiaokiXiaoki Member EpicPosts: 3,907


    Originally posted by Archlyte
    Originally posted by Xiaoki   Originally posted by Archlyte Originally posted by caveogre72 could not agree more on how cartoon graphics need to go away! I laughed at WoW when it came out, then years later, tried it finally, the game was actually very smooth, but the graphics were horrid to me, you get used to it after a while, but why would you really want to? It's like training your nose to ignore bad B.O. it stinks but you do your best not to notice. .... who wants to smell B.O. all the time?
    This exactly. Why hamstring your product with an ugly face? Pure stupidity. And the excuse of "WoW did it," is a terrible argument. Why make a revolutionary game but then copy WoW on graphics?  WoW is WoW, nothing else is. Period.    
    Yeah, because WoW invented cartoonish graphics.   Ugh.
    No, WoW invented pulling giant numbers of people to the genre. What's your point?

     



    Completely avoiding my counterpoint by feigning cluelessness?

    Have to admit, thats new.


    I do have wonder why people think that EQN will be rejected by MMO players because it has cartoonish graphics when the most successful MMOs have cartoonish graphics.

    Also, why EQ fans would be upset when all previous EQ games have had cartoonish graphics.

  • EverQuestingEverQuesting Member Posts: 25

    Pardon on behalf of my arrogant, but it is DEAD JIM.

    Everything Sony touches, do turn to crap...

    ... like no other!.

  • psiicpsiic Member RarePosts: 1,640
    Originally posted by Coated

    The game play video is what did it for me. Watched it and nearly fell asleep from boredom. I don't care what kind of excuse people make, that is what the game will look like. That is how it will be. Alpha or not, the games never change much from that first game play video.

    Also, I am sick and tired of this 'WOW'ish' art style. I didn't even touch Wildstar because of it and I'm thinking it is going to be the same for EQN. This cartoony style really needs to die.

    I try and tell people this all the time. 

    I hate the " It's only Alpha ", retort. 

    Alpha defines so much for finished game design.

    There have been 1 or 2 in the past 15 years that completely wiped their design from the core and started over, but that does not even constitute 1% of the industry.

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,139
    Originally posted by Rydeson

         I'm still not sure what to make of Storybricks and how it will play out in a "live" game with players.. 

    I'm right there with you on this. They've shown much too little to really make an accurate projection and I think we can only go by what we've seen in the past and our imaginations. Which may or may not reflect how EQN will really work.

    Hopefully they have a lot of our questions figured out and it will all eventually make sense and work. At this point, we haven't even been given the point to the game. Which is good and bad. If they leave it too open, there will be a lot of head scratching, but if it is to guided, we end up where games are already.

    Why should I help build Halas? Why should I work with others to take down a dragon? What's in it for me if there isn't a huge focus on the vertical progression system? I have plenty of questions, but I'm not expecting answers yet.

    Be it is intentional or not, a lot of their concepts are still pretty vague. Maybe they haven't figured it out, but I really hope they have. I don't need an "end game" drawn out for me, but play to play can be an empty option as well.

    What I'm hoping is that the AI and world simply are "a live." Where the example they gave of the DE vs Dryads is going on everywhere at all times. Where we don't wander through a forest and see 3 random Orc camps just there. They should be up to something and working toward something.

    If the world is active, then players have more reason to participate in the content and bring along friends for the ride. While I doubt player voting or what not will be a major aspect, I do hope that players working together can influence the outcome. As in the DE vs Dryad example. Maybe no vote is needed, but if players are split, they have to put in effort collectively to get their side/faction to win because the goal is hopefully in their favor, all though we shouldn't know what it will be exactly. Maybe 80% go for the Dryads, yet the result backfires and the 20% end up benefiting more.

    Realistically, I think everyone is out for themselves, it's just how we are. We might say it's all about the community or social or whatever, but if we aren't getting something, what's the point? Hopefully it isn't a single player game that just happens to have others in it, but I don't see our personal choices being heavily influenced in a democratic society or going for the greater good. We simply figure out what we want and then work with others with the same goals. Not a huge difference then previous games, but with a lot more choice involved, beyond a linear treadmill.

    Overall, Storybricks at least seems to be an unknown at this point. At least from the examples and "facts" they've given, SB is not GW2 + some extra stuff. It appears to be something not fully developed and tried in a AAA mmorpg. Maybe it will be a failed experiment and a month after release, they will have to tone it down or make huge adjustments. I'm willing to at least give it a go and see where the possibilities lead. That's why SB better deliver or don't even bother showing up. I have no wish to waste my time on just another game.

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