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Dang, I think this game might be dying on the Vine!

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  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,139

    Originally posted by Rhoklaw

    Originally posted by SlyLoK

    I dont know what they are thinking over there. Landmark and / or EQN could end up being huge flops at this rate.

    Pantheon with a fraction of support is making better progress for crying out loud.

    While I wouldn't touch Pantheon with a 100 foot pole simply due to I don't care for one of their lore writers. I have to agree, Brad is doing a much better job with his game and limited assets than SOE is doing with EQN.

    While I've barely followed Pantheon, I'm not seeing anything worth getting excited for beyond those wanting to go back in time. Pantheon shows exactly how much originality Brad has, which is very little. EQ-VG-PRotF are so similar in look and feel. Not that it is a bad thing, but I want a EQ/VG clone as much as I want a WoW clone. At least try to make it not so obvious. LM/EQN could flop, be huge, or at least grow steadily. Pantheon, if released, will never be more then a small niche game which is their goal I'm assuming. Different goals for different products.

  • ThestrainThestrain Member CommonPosts: 390
    Originally posted by asdar

    I wanted this game badly, in some form.

    The EQN forums are even more dead than these for EQN. We've seen no real improvement from the BIG reveal a year and a half ago until now and there's no sign of anything at all happening positive.

    I've never seen a player defend the combat that's in Landmark, they seem to universally think it's bad. The last "round table" discussion I've seen is about the art style of the Ogre's. That doesn't sound like a game on the verge of release to me and I have to ask what they've been doing to NOT have all the artwork up to speed and be ironing out the details.


    EQN has 5 features I want very badly mixed with 3 things I think ruin MMO's.

    What a huge letdown.

    What the hell are you talking about?  from where you got the idea that game is on verge of releasing because SOE surely never said anything like that.

  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,020
    Originally posted by Allein
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    People get bored,they want to see a game come out worth playing or something in the near future to keep them interested.I was one of those that almsot completely gave up,i figured everyone was going to keep making Wow clones and it really turned me away.

    When i look at what Soe has been doing for the last several years,they give me no confidence in their ability to be creative or sway from their ways.so it leaves me with nothing to look forward from Next.

    I doubt Smedley will ever change or be fired from his roost but i do hope and wish that one day SOE just removes the old school from designing their rpg games and let some new blood do it,hopefully the Naughty Dog team who does a lot of work for SOE would be a great start.

    Have you seen EQN? Not sure how it isn't creative or going away from the old ways of churning out the same old thing. While the majority of it isn't groundbreaking original, their approach and what they are putting together in one package is pretty outside the box compared to what else is out there and even coming out. Obviously won't be THE game for everyone, but it sure doesn't look like every other game. I wish Smed would at least have some sort of PR filter or only talk about games he cares about (PS2/H1Z1), but he's the boss so I guess he can say whatever he wants, regardless of how it impacts fans or how realistic his comments are.

    It's not creative. It's having their mouths write checks they can't cash. Most the crap they're talking up is just pretty words. In reality, it won't be how they're hyping it up to be. I'm referencing in particular the story bricks AI shit.

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,139
    Originally posted by Sephiroso

    It's not creative. It's having their mouths write checks they can't cash. Most the crap they're talking up is just pretty words. In reality, it won't be how they're hyping it up to be. I'm referencing in particular the story bricks AI shit.

    Reality is we won't know until it is actually shown or better yet, in the hands of players. Which could be relatively soon if they put some form of the AI and controls in Landmark and let players use it. For me, the AI is what can potentially set the game far apart from the run of the mill games we've been given over the years. I doubt it will be shockingly good, but with how crappy most game AI is (patterns to learn and farm), if they even do some what of what they are promising, might be worth playing for more then a month or two. If it is all pretty words, EQN will simply be another game, maybe still a bit more exciting or fresh then what's out, but AI is what will or won't step it a much needed leap forward.

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 Member UncommonPosts: 1,023

    i think soe did one giant mistake - they went public way to early and wanted the community to take part in the development of the game - years before release (i think usually devs wouldt come out with game infos until probably 1 year from now in eqn's case, way later in the process)...this causes 2 problems for soe

     

    a) its just not realistic to keep up hype for 3 years

    b) they only "pretend" to want the community to take part in the development with these round tables and sensless polls which are already decided or guided by sony way before or which do not have any real impact...(who gives a shit which races comes first?)

    i still have high hopes for eqn - but i dont expect to lay my hands on it before 2016

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    i think soe did one giant mistake - they went public way to early and wanted the community to take part in the development of the game - years before release (i think usually devs wouldt come out with game infos until probably 1 year from now in eqn's case, way later in the process)...this causes 2 problems for soe

     

    a) its just not realistic to keep up hype for 3 years

    b) they only "pretend" to want the community to take part in the development with these round tables and sensless polls which are already decided or guided by sony way before or which do not have any real impact...(who gives a shit which races comes first?)

    i still have high hopes for eqn - but i dont expect to lay my hands on it before 2016

    a) I agree.. The human mind will only take so much hype stimulation, before it actually rejects what it wants..  This is psych 101.. Rather it be dating, buying a car, buying a home, etc etc.. You can want something and pursue it, but there comes a time that the wanted desire just isn't there anymore and you move on.. 

    b)  Yeah, again I have seen this stunt played many times in the real world..  From private business, to school district planning, to the charity drives..  This is classic strategic planning where an organization calls "Public Participation Plan" or Public Involvement Plan..  It's all the same..  As much as it sounds like the public has a voice, they truly don't. In most cases the ultimate plan is already been chosen, but the org will try and get the public involved in hopes they will duplicate the already chosen plan.. Once that occurs, the plan is implemented having public acceptance.. In situations were the public goes in a different direction it is the job of the org to bring the public back to the chosen path.. 

    I don't expect EQN to go live till 2017.. It's still 2 years away..  This is not to say they won't have some form of pre-launch testing available for sale to those that wish to pony up the cash..

  • CaldrinCaldrin Member UncommonPosts: 4,505
    Originally posted by asdar

    I wanted this game badly, in some form.

    The EQN forums are even more dead than these for EQN. We've seen no real improvement from the BIG reveal a year and a half ago until now and there's no sign of anything at all happening positive.

    I've never seen a player defend the combat that's in Landmark, they seem to universally think it's bad. The last "round table" discussion I've seen is about the art style of the Ogre's. That doesn't sound like a game on the verge of release to me and I have to ask what they've been doing to NOT have all the artwork up to speed and be ironing out the details.


    EQN has 5 features I want very badly mixed with 3 things I think ruin MMO's.

    What a huge letdown.

    I personally enjoy the combat in Landmark even tho its at a very very basic stage..

    As for EQN I want them to release it when its ready so I am happy to wait.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans Member UncommonPosts: 2,437
    Originally posted by Coated

    The game play video is what did it for me.

    I think it's interesting that some of the abilities from EQNext are some of the least used abilities in EQ.

    Like furious leap in EQNext for the warrior. Warriors in EQ have battle leap. It has the same funciton. No one uses it, since it's chaotic and it's not useful during battle.

    Whirlwind from EQNext for the warrior. Warriors in EQ have this too. But it's quite rare to just use it in the middle of a battle because it can break CC and just hitting 3 mobs at once is simply used for aggro, not for DPS. Using whirlwind at the wrong time will get you kicked out of a raid in EQ.

    Cripple in EQNext is the same as Call of Challenge from EQ. But again, rarely used, because in EQ a group has snaring bility and a warrior is extremely bad at soloing in EQ.

    All these similar abilities are used sparingly in EQ and are only used under specific conditions. In EQNext these same abilities are used as a form of DPS.

    It shows what a lack of trinity does to a game. It becomes way more chaotic and uncontrolled.

    I also didn't see any grouping in the video, just classes soloing.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    Originally posted by asdar

    I wanted this game badly, in some form.

    The EQN forums are even more dead than these for EQN. We've seen no real improvement from the BIG reveal a year and a half ago until now and there's no sign of anything at all happening positive.

    I've never seen a player defend the combat that's in Landmark, they seem to universally think it's bad. The last "round table" discussion I've seen is about the art style of the Ogre's. That doesn't sound like a game on the verge of release to me and I have to ask what they've been doing to NOT have all the artwork up to speed and be ironing out the details.


    EQN has 5 features I want very badly mixed with 3 things I think ruin MMO's.

    What a huge letdown.

    So it was a "huge letdown" when you realised that this game was not "on the verge of release" ? Who's fault is that ?

     

    Good AAA MMO's take many years to complete, especially when they are trying to implement risky and untried concepts. I don't believe SOE have given an estimated release date for EQN yet, so the blame for your disappoinment cannot be laid at their feet.

  • asdarasdar Member UncommonPosts: 662


    Originally posted by Caldrin
    Originally posted by asdar I wanted this game badly, in some form. The EQN forums are even more dead than these for EQN. We've seen no real improvement from the BIG reveal a year and a half ago until now and there's no sign of anything at all happening positive. I've never seen a player defend the combat that's in Landmark, they seem to universally think it's bad. The last "round table" discussion I've seen is about the art style of the Ogre's. That doesn't sound like a game on the verge of release to me and I have to ask what they've been doing to NOT have all the artwork up to speed and be ironing out the details. EQN has 5 features I want very badly mixed with 3 things I think ruin MMO's. What a huge letdown.
    I personally enjoy the combat in Landmark even tho its at a very very basic stage..

    As for EQN I want them to release it when its ready so I am happy to wait.



    This is good to hear, I really do want the game. I'm much more a supporter than a detractor.

    If you're allowed to discuss the combat that'd be great. I know it's got a weapon component to skills and a primary class component along with the skills you gather, but not how it all comes together.

    Asdar

  • asdarasdar Member UncommonPosts: 662


    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    Originally posted by asdar I wanted this game badly, in some form. The EQN forums are even more dead than these for EQN. We've seen no real improvement from the BIG reveal a year and a half ago until now and there's no sign of anything at all happening positive. I've never seen a player defend the combat that's in Landmark, they seem to universally think it's bad. The last "round table" discussion I've seen is about the art style of the Ogre's. That doesn't sound like a game on the verge of release to me and I have to ask what they've been doing to NOT have all the artwork up to speed and be ironing out the details. EQN has 5 features I want very badly mixed with 3 things I think ruin MMO's. What a huge letdown.
    So it was a "huge letdown" when you realised that this game was not "on the verge of release" ? Who's fault is that ?

     

    Good AAA MMO's take many years to complete, especially when they are trying to implement risky and untried concepts. I don't believe SOE have given an estimated release date for EQN yet, so the blame for your disappoinment cannot be laid at their feet.


    If you're looking for a fight from me you won't get it. I'm not bashing the game, or the devs and I didn't call your mother any names.

    If anything I'm glad to see people come on here and defend EQN because it's the first time I've seen any post where it seems that anyone cares whether it lives or dies. The interest seemed dead to me.

    Asdar

  • SupaAPESupaAPE Member Posts: 100
    Originally posted by Nitth

    Oh.....one of these posts...is it a weekly thing now?

     

    I think it goes like this :

    Op's Thought process ;

     

    "$hit i'm bored !!! I need a good MMO ,

    Lets check out MMORPG for what's hot and what's not ,

    EQN, oh yea , lets see what's going on there ,

    Nothing, F !!!!!!!!!!!!

    They must be lying , and the game is going to turn out to be a scam ,

    Ima make a hate post because this game is vaporware , what a bunch of lies and I hate the cartoon graphics , the animation , and smedley too ! "

     

    lol @ op, chill out man, everything good comes with patience. Have you not noticed the trend of most MMO's these days ? Rushed out the door, unfinished garbage. I'd rather wait much longer, for a quality product, over some rushed crap I won't even bother to try even if it's free.

  • luisrkillerluisrkiller Member UncommonPosts: 107
    Originally posted by Coated

    The game play video is what did it for me. Watched it and nearly fell asleep from boredom. I don't care what kind of excuse people make, that is what the game will look like. That is how it will be. Alpha or not, the games never change much from that first game play video.

    Also, I am sick and tired of this 'WOW'ish' art style. I didn't even touch Wildstar because of it and I'm thinking it is going to be the same for EQN. This cartoony style really needs to die.

    This. When I saw the gameplay it saddened me because it moved miles away from what EverQuest really is. It looked so bland and boring and it's trying to be what it's not, an action based MMO. Which I have nothing against because I love action based combat, but from what I've seen, it's just not looking very good for them.

    I hope they can resurrect this idea and maybe execute it better for the future.

  • asdarasdar Member UncommonPosts: 662


    Originally posted by SupaAPE
    Originally posted by Nitth Oh.....one of these posts...is it a weekly thing now?
     

    I think it goes like this :

    Op's Thought process ;

     

    "$hit i'm bored !!! I need a good MMO ,

    Lets check out MMORPG for what's hot and what's not ,

    EQN, oh yea , lets see what's going on there ,

    Nothing, F !!!!!!!!!!!!

    They must be lying , and the game is going to turn out to be a scam ,

    Ima make a hate post because this game is vaporware , what a bunch of lies and I hate the cartoon graphics , the animation , and smedley too ! "

     

    lol @ op, chill out man, everything good comes with patience. Have you not noticed the trend of most MMO's these days ? Rushed out the door, unfinished garbage. I'd rather wait much longer, for a quality product, over some rushed crap I won't even bother to try even if it's free.



    Calm down psychic man, you don't know my thinking.

    Your post using your vast mind reading skills was longer than mine.

    I would never accuse someone of lying, because that'd be rude. I didn't say anything you've predicted in your post or even think it.

    Asdar

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
    Originally posted by Spankster77

    For starters we are talking about SoE which is the same company that completely ruined Vanguard. 

     

    EQ was epic because it was one of two MMOs available at the time, the concept was new, and online gaming was in its infancy.   Fast forward to present day, there have been thousands of MMOs released, the majority of them have overpromised and under delivered, consumers are jaded, and EQN has to live up to it's own hype.  When you put all these things together I honestly think EQN is doomed, I honestly think this is why Blizzard hasn't attempted a WoW 2. 

     

    In addition to all this for me personally I hate combat systems that have crosshair targeting.  If I want to play an FPS I will but when it comes to fantasy MMOs I want lots of spells, lots of particle effects, and the ability to focus on what's going on in the environment around me instead of worrying about my crosshairs lining up.

    Ruined Vanguard? You mean actually gave the game a chance and attempted to fix it after its pitiful, buggy as hell launch?

    Brad McQuaid ruined Vanguard with his ineptitude. If it weren't for Sony, the game would've shut down years before it actually did. Sony put money into the game, fixed bugs, and even tried several payment models to help keep it afloat.

    Talk about revisionist history, sheesh. I understand why Sony gets so much hate, but try to stay focused on hating them for the things they actually screwed up. Hint: Vanguard isn't one of them.

    This is so +1. Love how people seem to forget the fact that Vanguard was basically DOA. 

     

    Not sure why we should be hating SOE for, though. Not sure what they screwed up, or at least I can't think of anything based on my experiences with them. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    Even if SoE had something to show why compete with Warlords of Dreanor and Blizzcon? Once those pass maybe more information will present itself. If not I don't see a problem. Seems normal to present info early on and then go quiet for a larger impact later on.

    Regarding EQNs actual production we know a few things. First is that the base world was created procedurally over a year ago, previous to SoE Live 2013, and has been added to by designers since. We know some entities from the racial building contests have been added in, at least the Dark Elf structures. We know the base combat functionality is in with special abilities. We know some of the behavioral functionality is in such as reactions to weapons or objects in the world.

    There's more but if one has watched the abundance of videos out there they know what's been done so far. As for speculation on the rest? Eh, I don't mind waiting. I still enjoy other titles so I've allowed myself to drift away a bit to enjoy those. The lack of EQN news right now doesn't bother me in the slightest.
  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,698
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Coated

    The game play video is what did it for me.

    I think it's interesting that some of the abilities from EQNext are some of the least used abilities in EQ.

    Like furious leap in EQNext for the warrior. Warriors in EQ have battle leap. It has the same funciton. No one uses it, since it's chaotic and it's not useful during battle.

    Whirlwind from EQNext for the warrior. Warriors in EQ have this too. But it's quite rare to just use it in the middle of a battle because it can break CC and just hitting 3 mobs at once is simply used for aggro, not for DPS. Using whirlwind at the wrong time will get you kicked out of a raid in EQ.

    Cripple in EQNext is the same as Call of Challenge from EQ. But again, rarely used, because in EQ a group has snaring bility and a warrior is extremely bad at soloing in EQ.

    All these similar abilities are used sparingly in EQ and are only used under specific conditions. In EQNext these same abilities are used as a form of DPS.

    It shows what a lack of trinity does to a game. It becomes way more chaotic and uncontrolled.

    I also didn't see any grouping in the video, just classes soloing.

    Indeed.. group combat is going to be a mess.

  • MensurMensur Member EpicPosts: 1,526
    Originally posted by Prenho3
    The Walt Disney style killed this game for me.

    Ditto!

    mmorpg junkie since 1999



  • bmw66bmw66 Member UncommonPosts: 141
    Vine is dead for me.
  • KilrainKilrain Member RarePosts: 1,185
    I think this is the first post I've made in an EQN topic. Just to prove a point, I will be playing this game when it comes out. Forums meen diddly.
  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,698
    Originally posted by Allein

    Originally posted by Rhoklaw

    Originally posted by SlyLoK

    I dont know what they are thinking over there. Landmark and / or EQN could end up being huge flops at this rate.

    Pantheon with a fraction of support is making better progress for crying out loud.

    While I wouldn't touch Pantheon with a 100 foot pole simply due to I don't care for one of their lore writers. I have to agree, Brad is doing a much better job with his game and limited assets than SOE is doing with EQN.

    While I've barely followed Pantheon, I'm not seeing anything worth getting excited for beyond those wanting to go back in time. Pantheon shows exactly how much originality Brad has, which is very little. EQ-VG-PRotF are so similar in look and feel. Not that it is a bad thing, but I want a EQ/VG clone as much as I want a WoW clone. At least try to make it not so obvious. LM/EQN could flop, be huge, or at least grow steadily. Pantheon, if released, will never be more then a small niche game which is their goal I'm assuming. Different goals for different products.

    I dont expect Pantheon to have a player base any bigger than Darkfall ( 10, 000 - 20,000 ) but that really wasnt my point. Just looking at the past couple months of progress videos of Pantheon gives me the feeling that they have a plan and that they are following it. When it comes to SOE it feels like they are jumping around and not really completing one thing before going to something else.

    I personally think Landmark is already a flop. It is basically a released game ..Even though it is behind the " closed beta " tag they already have a cash shop ( since alpha! ) and people can pick up the $20 SC card to get credits AND Landmark but people arent. Its the same handful of people playing and that is it. I wouldnt be surprised at all if one day SOE came out and said " Landmark isnt improving at the rate we would like so we are stopping development " and only because they lack focus and direction!

    For EQN. It is coming out no matter what.. I think that having a hybrid of voxels and meshes would have been a better way to go. Have voxels for areas you can mine , trees and terrain / buildings you can destroy and everything else a regular mesh. ( EDIT : Or at least use the voxel to mesh - mesh to voxel tech that Voxel Farm uses BUT it doesnt look good with tons and tons of pop in ) With the way voxels work they have to stream in constantly which adds to ping time and lower performance ( and judging by landmark will make increased movement speed a headache because of the game not loading fast enough ) .. combine that with big PvE / PvP battles and the game will have worse performance than ever. And players have already shown that they will not stick around if the game runs poorly ( see Vanguard ). The only saving grace for EQN ( and Landmark ) is that they are going to be f2p and easily accessible.

    I could go on .. There are more red flags for Landmark and EQN that have yet to be even close to being addressed or have more than a bandaid planned ( publishing your claim for better LOD in Landmark is an example of a planned bandaid fix )..etc.

    The one thing I am interested in is Story Bricks. I do not believe everything they are saying about it but I do believe it will add more options and outcomes which will be great no matter.

     

  • Ket_VilianoKet_Viliano Member UncommonPosts: 271
    Originally posted by Nitth

    Oh.....one of these posts...is it a weekly thing now?

    Yes, game is that bad, hype is that low.

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    i think soe did one giant mistake - they went public way to early and wanted the community to take part in the development of the game - years before release (i think usually devs wouldt come out with game infos until probably 1 year from now in eqn's case, way later in the process)...this causes 2 problems for soe

     

    a) its just not realistic to keep up hype for 3 years

    b) they only "pretend" to want the community to take part in the development with these round tables and sensless polls which are already decided or guided by sony way before or which do not have any real impact...(who gives a shit which races comes first?)

    i still have high hopes for eqn - but i dont expect to lay my hands on it before 2016

    It's how they went public with Landmark and then what did after they went public. 

     

    They went public talking a "fully destructable worlds," "build you own mmo", "Build the new Norrath!" "Imagine what pvp will be like". Then people bought Landmark, some for 150$ and non of that was there, not even any link tto EQ what so ever.

     

    SOE then released the original road map that said things like caves in february, basic pve and pvp in march, advanced systems after march. The only thing that came in march besides textures was a cash shop. A fully functioning 0 bug cash shop with a beautiful UI. Meanwhile players couldn't even rebind keys while SOE is saying "we are looking for a UI guy."

     

    If they just would have came out and said "We have this cool building program that we are using to build EQN. It's years away from being feature complete, but we want to invite you guys to join us on our journey" w/o all the over hype and vague statements they would have been much better off.

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,139
    Originally posted by SlyLoK
    Originally posted by Allein

    Originally posted by Rhoklaw

    Originally posted by SlyLoK

    I dont know what they are thinking over there. Landmark and / or EQN could end up being huge flops at this rate.

    Pantheon with a fraction of support is making better progress for crying out loud.

    While I wouldn't touch Pantheon with a 100 foot pole simply due to I don't care for one of their lore writers. I have to agree, Brad is doing a much better job with his game and limited assets than SOE is doing with EQN.

    While I've barely followed Pantheon, I'm not seeing anything worth getting excited for beyond those wanting to go back in time. Pantheon shows exactly how much originality Brad has, which is very little. EQ-VG-PRotF are so similar in look and feel. Not that it is a bad thing, but I want a EQ/VG clone as much as I want a WoW clone. At least try to make it not so obvious. LM/EQN could flop, be huge, or at least grow steadily. Pantheon, if released, will never be more then a small niche game which is their goal I'm assuming. Different goals for different products.

    I dont expect Pantheon to have a player base any bigger than Darkfall ( 10, 000 - 20,000 ) but that really wasnt my point. Just looking at the past couple months of progress videos of Pantheon gives me the feeling that they have a plan and that they are following it. When it comes to SOE it feels like they are jumping around and not really completing one thing before going to something else.

    While I can see that, they've also been pretty open about what's going on. New things come up in development and they shuffle around priorities. As long as a quality product reaches my hands, don't care what order it all was completed in. Pantheon looks to be a fairly simple game so far and they are not attempting to get too crazy, which is their plan. SOE is going for broke, which may or may not pay off.

    I personally think Landmark is already a flop. It is basically a released game ..Even though it is behind the " closed beta " tag they already have a cash shop ( since alpha! ) and people can pick up the $20 SC card to get credits AND Landmark but people arent. Its the same handful of people playing and that is it. I wouldnt be surprised at all if one day SOE came out and said " Landmark isnt improving at the rate we would like so we are stopping development " and only because they lack focus and direction!

    It isn't even completed yet. Factor in all the other systems and features that are coming and it isn't a final product. Like saying a car is a flop because a company has been working on the body for too long and there aren't any wheels on yet. I think we've come to expect these games to get huge numbers from the get go and that doesn't seem to be SOE's plan. They want to build both games slowly to get it right and make something worth playing for years down the road. Both could still be flops for sure, but I'd at least let them get both feet out the door before calling it.

    I think Landmark has some of the most potential out of all these games, once it is "complete." Players like having a lot of control and Landmark is a perfect format to build/create mini-games to enjoy. Lots of potential. To me it is a more accessible Second Life mixed with Minecraft mixed with mmorpgs. Then again I would love to see "Ready Player One" start somewhere as well =)

    As seen with EQ/EQ2/VG and their library, SOE takes their time pulling the plug on any game.

    For EQN. It is coming out no matter what.. I think that having a hybrid of voxels and meshes would have been a better way to go. Have voxels for areas you can mine , trees and terrain / buildings you can destroy and everything else a regular mesh. ( EDIT : Or at least use the voxel to mesh - mesh to voxel tech that Voxel Farm uses BUT it doesnt look good with tons and tons of pop in ) With the way voxels work they have to stream in constantly which adds to ping time and lower performance ( and judging by landmark will make increased movement speed a headache because of the game not loading fast enough ) .. combine that with big PvE / PvP battles and the game will have worse performance than ever. And players have already shown that they will not stick around if the game runs poorly ( see Vanguard ). The only saving grace for EQN ( and Landmark ) is that they are going to be f2p and easily accessible.

    I think you are right on both. F2P is a huge deal. While I doubt Sony will be pleased if both games make zero profit for years, it does give them some room to keep developing the game, even after a soft launch. No need to have a 100% finished product on day 1 because fans are investing $50-60+ instantly. Not to say it shouldn't be a decent experience from the get go. As for the tech, I'd hope they have internally tested all the systems and what not and that through simulations, they know what their servers and an average gamer computer can handle. Still seems like they could of made it less voxel based for the sake of performance though.

    The one thing I am interested in is Story Bricks. I do not believe everything they are saying about it but I do believe it will add more options and outcomes which will be great no matter.

     I agree. SB is pretty much going to make or break it for me. I've played enough of these games to know that if it doesn't bring something new and challenging for me, I have no intention of sticking around. I've skipped over the last several AAA titles because I simply can't do the same thing again. Don't think I'll quit mmorpgs for good, but EQN is the only thing that seems remotely different enough to keep going for a while. Was hoping Blizzard would pull someone off with Titan, but that's not happening. So while I'm not without my doubt, I have to keep some faith. Only other games that seem interesting are indie/crowd funded and my faith in them is even less.

     

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
    Originally posted by Allein
    Originally posted by SlyLoK

    The one thing I am interested in is Story Bricks. I do not believe everything they are saying about it but I do believe it will add more options and outcomes which will be great no matter.

     I agree. SB is pretty much going to make or break it for me. I've played enough of these games to know that if it doesn't bring something new and challenging for me, I have no intention of sticking around. I've skipped over the last several AAA titles because I simply can't do the same thing again. Don't think I'll quit mmorpgs for good, but EQN is the only thing that seems remotely different enough to keep going for a while. Was hoping Blizzard would pull someone off with Titan, but that's not happening. So while I'm not without my doubt, I have to keep some faith. Only other games that seem interesting are indie/crowd funded and my faith in them is even less.

     

         I'm still not sure what to make of Storybricks and how it will play out in a "live" game with players..  It scares the hell out of me that with a complex code, players will learn how to manipulate that game play of that code to grieve others, and what safety protocols SOE will have to prevent it..  Trust me, I saw first hand how SOE handled the SWG problem with player run cities w/ militia..  Instead of correcting the code, they deleted the code.. LOL  

         Anyways.. I'm all for a living world that isn't 100% static, as that leads to a very predictable boring game play.. However, I think Storybricks focuses too much individual play, and not enough on community play..  Big difference between the two and how they work together or against each other.. Even "Rally Calls" are more focused on solo play, then group community actions..  At least to my knowledge so far..  Let me explain the above if I can..  In Storybricks, We will interact with NPC on a 1 on 1 basis, changing our like/dislike with said NPC depending on our actions.. Solo play? and where is the community focus? Oh sure I can drive back the gnolls as part of my Storybricks, which will also help some of my fellow players as an indirect byproduct, but was the focus on ME or the society? 

         But then we have Rallying Calls, which is suppose to be a community thing, but is it really?  To me it appears more of a solo race to get what you want.. Are RC's designed for community action and gathering, or just disguised solo play?  Sure, I want Halas to be built in stone, so I work my ass off to gather all the stone I can.. However, is that what I want, or the community agrees to want?  Another player wants a Halas built in wood, so he works longer or gets a friend to OUT DO what I'm doing in stone..  Again, more solo focused, or community achievement? 

         Where are the events and goals that focus on community building and growth?  Example:  Can the community VOTE (in game) on which direction to build Halas.  Lets assume the voting results declare stone the winner.. It doesn't mean you still don't need wood and other resources, just that you need stone as the #1 resource that takes the most..  BTW, to prevent F2P accounts from vote cheating, safeguards can be put in place..  Now during the construction of Halas, the orcs continue to grow in strength and disrupt the process..  The community must take action.. Again it takes more then just solo or small group play of killing orcs and driving them off.. Will there be a community organized "RAID" 100+ players that collectively push back into Crushbone.. Naturally this will only be temporary, as the orcs can never be completely defeated, but they can be pushed back far enough to allow Halas and the players to do their thing.. 

         And yes if the community FAILS to organize a raid, the rally call of Halas should FAIL.. There needs to be content for both individual and community game play..  I fear that Storybricks is nothing more then a complex code of "factions / reputation" that plays piggyback with NPC actions..  As SOE promotes Storybricks is a life of consequences, and that also MUST apply to community as well, or we are just simply playing another solo friendly game..  One thing I truly miss in every game since EQ and early WoW are the roaming mobs that will spoil your day..  Remember the Sand Giants in Ro?  Remember the Fel Reavers in Hellfire?  There needs to be group/raid content in the open world to keep players attention and respect.. LOL

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