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Can someone explain to me why FFXIV is so popular.

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Comments

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357

    This thread is the prime example of undistilled delusion. People trying so hard to come up with reasons for ARR's success that don't involve the game just being a darn good game.

    Oh, the IP is the reason (while 1.0 tanked horribly)!

    The playerbase is "special" (aka "people like bad games, even ARR")

    Luck (for really good games(tm) luck doesn't play a role you know)

    Graphics & music and nothing else (while the graphically "superior" 1.0 tanked horribly)

    etc. etc.

     

    I'm sorry to tell you OP and the people like you, games that you don't like can be honestly good and attract people that simply like things you don't. By the way, what you happen to like is not in any shape or form superior to what these people like either.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • Leon1eLeon1e Member UncommonPosts: 791
    The lack of cash shop I would guess. Some people put that over gameplay. It's like those folks that prefer graphics before gameplay.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by KaitarBesh
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by KaitarBesh

    Yeah, I don't get it either. If this game had been called Save the World Reborn or Hero Journey Reborn it would have failed miserably as another "WoW-clone Asian grinder with pretty graphics". *shrug* This coming from someone who loved vanilla FFXI

    If you managed to get past your blind hate over this game, you would probably finally get it. So try to work on that or stay ignorant.

    [mod edit]

    But all of the above points?

    Yep, same problem I've run into with most other MMOs for a very long time now.

    Name one point I made above that isn't true. There are invisible walls and loading screens -everywhere-. Exploring is non-existent because the zones are very claustrophobic, very small, and packed with mobs and FATES every 5 steps. The economy has some major, major issues that keep being brought up on the forums. Quests are all marked out nice and pretty for you so you know exactly who to talk to and where to go. Endgame is raid, raid, raid. The crafting point is my opinion, but I'm sticking to it - I found it tedious and dull and not a very fun "mini-game". The only thing "different" about the combat system compared to most MMOs is you can switch jobs by switching your weapon - meh, not enough to make it a fun experience for me.

    So again, how don't I know what I'm talking about? Or maybe you just don't like the fact I think the game is another boring, linear themepark with a FF name slapped on and some pretty graphics to please the grahpic loving crowd.

    Some games use an IP as window dressing, FFXIV;ARR isn't one of them, might just as well wonder why it is that Final Fantasy is so popular. Of course it doesn't hurt that the game is one of the best looking ones on the market and is fun to play too image

  • AmbrosiaAmorAmbrosiaAmor Member Posts: 915
    Originally posted by Leon1e
    The lack of cash shop I would guess.

     

    The cash shop went live yesterday. You can see my response to GeezerGamer in the previous page.

    image

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357
    Originally posted by KaitarBesh

    So again, how don't I know what I'm talking about? Or maybe you just don't like the fact I think the game is another boring, linear themepark with a FF name slapped on and some pretty graphics to please the grahpic loving crowd.

    Because the reality does not meet your perceptions of the game. You say you don't know how the game can be successful - clearly either what you say is inaccurate or you are missing the point completely.

    Personally I don't know why exactly I should care even the slightest bit of what you think: the game is extremely successful, I like it, and you're completely off the base with your opinion. With that said it's no wonder I would be so threatened by your opinion, LOL.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • DerrosDerros Member UncommonPosts: 1,216
    Originally posted by KaitarBesh

    Yep, same problem I've run into with most other MMOs for a very long time now.

    Name one point I made above that isn't true. There are invisible walls and loading screens -everywhere-. Exploring is non-existent because the zones are very claustrophobic, very small, and packed with mobs and FATES every 5 steps. The economy has some major, major issues that keep being brought up on the forums. Quests are all marked out nice and pretty for you so you know exactly who to talk to and where to go. Endgame is raid, raid, raid. The crafting point is my opinion, but I'm sticking to it - I found it tedious and dull and not a very fun "mini-game". The only thing "different" about the combat system compared to most MMOs is you can switch jobs by switching your weapon - meh, not enough to make it a fun experience for me.

     

    I guess, barring your issue with the economy, why are any of those things bad?

  • Leon1eLeon1e Member UncommonPosts: 791
    Originally posted by AmbrosiaAmor
    Originally posted by Leon1e
    The lack of cash shop I would guess.

     

    The cash shop went live yesterday. You can see my response to GeezerGamer in the previous page.

    :OOOOO 

    Subscription AND a cash shop? :O 

    Those P2P whiteknights are really stretching it :X 

  • DerrosDerros Member UncommonPosts: 1,216
    Originally posted by KaitarBesh
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by KaitarBesh

    So again, how don't I know what I'm talking about? Or maybe you just don't like the fact I think the game is another boring, linear themepark with a FF name slapped on and some pretty graphics to please the grahpic loving crowd.

    Because the reality does not meet your perceptions of the game. You say you don't know how the game can be successful - clearly either what you say is inaccurate or you are missing the point completely.

    Personally I don't know why exactly I should care even the slightest bit of what you think: the game is extremely successful, I like it, and you're completely off the base with your opinion. With that said it's no wonder I would be so threatened by your opinion, LOL.

     

    How is my opinion off base? Because it doesn't correspond with -your- opinion? I don't like the game. I think it fell flat. It wasn't unrealistic expectations, it was the fact the game had many features that I thought had been done to death in many, many other MMOs. And most of those MMOs do them better.

    Again, dispute one point I posted above that is false. Is the game not linear? Is the game world not rife with loading screens and invisible walls that make exploration nihl? Is the game not completely geared towards raiding? Are quests not the hold-your-hand-right-here-on-your-map types?

    Can't come up with a "no and this is why" answer to any of those?

    I'd say it's your opinion that's more the moot point, then.

    If you like the same old same old wrapped in a shiny new package, good for you. But the OP asked why this game was so popular because it's pretty much like most other themeparks, and I said I agreed - I don't get it either, it has so many faults that would have caused any other game to flop BUT it has a "Final Fantasy" in the title.  While it's better than the first version, it's definitely nothing special or even that entertaining for someone who has played this -same- game a few dozen times already.

    Sorry if you don't like that, but too bad.

    I dont think it can be JUST the fact that its a FF skinned game, a big IP didnt help either ESO or TOR.  There has to be more to it than that.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    Originally posted by KaitarBesh
     

    It's not blind hate, it's exactly how the game felt for me. And being a fan of FFXI, I really, really wanted to like it.

    Many fans of FFXI really wanted to like it, too... And they do. I still hold FFXI as my all-time favorite MMORPG (pre-Abyssea). I wanted to love ARR but, at first, hated it. Now, after its growth and change over the past year, I love it. Point is, feelings for FFXI grant no additional weight to opinions of ARR.  FFXI and FFXIV are two different MMORPGs.

    There are invisible walls and loading screens -everywhere-. 

    Utter exaggeration.  There are invisible walls where you'd logically expect there to be invisible walls. If you're experiencing invisible walls "everywhere", then I have to wonder why you're so eager to run off cliffs, or get to places you have no reason to get to, when there's tons of other places you *can* go and *aren't* blocked from? Is it just so you can go on to forums and say "invisible walls everywhere"?

    I mean, I could go around looking for places that I would have no good reason to want, nor need, to get to, and then complain about "omg all the invisible walls". But it would be silly to do so, because those invisible walls have absolutely zero impact on my ability to play the game. They do not get in the way. At all. Ever.

    Loading screens everywhere? Again, exaggeration. There are loading screens where you would expect there to be loading screens. And anyway, the whole "zomg loading screens, why no seamless world?" argument is silly anyway.  First of all, people in seamless world games get plenty of loading screens - every time they teleport somewhere farther than they want to run on foot/mount, every time they go into an instanced dungeon or raid.

    Outside of that, you're on a NPC mount taking you there automatically, and you have to wait - far longer than it takes for a loading screen, mind you.  The whole "zomg, loading screens" argument is just ridiclous. And let's not even mention that many/most MMOs with seamless worlds do a horrible job of disguising the fact that you're still moving between different maps, considering their world maps look like grids.

     

     

    Exploring is non-existent because the zones are very claustrophobic, very small, and packed with mobs and FATES every 5 steps.

    Really? FATES every 5 steps? You sure you're not exaggerating again.. as in, a lot?

    I'd have loved it if there were FATEs every 5 steps.. hell even every 20 or 30. I've been running and teleporting all over the zones, from one end to the other, to get to FATEs for my Atma farming. I'm not sure what version of ARR you're imagining in your head where there are FATEs every 5 steps, but it's not the one that's live and online.

    As for mobs every 5 steps? Well, again, exaggeration. There are plenty of places where mobs are sparse. And in many cases, they're not even aggressive, so it wouldn't matter if they're there or not. Mobs tend to, you know, bring a bit of life to the game. 

    Here's the problem with using exaggeration, even as a way to emphasize a point you're making... It can just as easily work against you. Considering FATEs are nowhere even in the *neighborhood* of being as frequent as you describe, your statement can't be seen as anything but utterly ill-informed and fallacious. It's not "helpful". It's deliberately misleading.

    The economy has some major, major issues that keep being brought up on the forums.

    Name me a MMO where people aren't complaining about some aspect of the in-game economy. Problem with in-game economies is that they're greatly driven by players. The developers can plan everything in advance to be perfectly balanced, within expected parameters. Those plans will never survive contact with a player base that is relentlessly competitive and looking to control as much of a market as they can. Won't happen. People are invariably going to feel it's all wrong and needs to be fixed.

    Quests are all marked out nice and pretty for you so you know exactly who to talk to and where to go.

    It's a themepark style MMORPG. That kind of goes with the territory. You can certainly dislike that kind of questing setup (I'm not a fan of it myself). But, it's very popular with many people... hence why it's used so often. Really, to complain about that kind of questing system, in a themepark style MMORPG, is rather silly. It's like going to a bunch of motorcycle dealerships and complaining how they all have 2 wheels, a seat and handlebars. You're faulting something for being exactly what it's designed to be.

    Endgame is raid, raid, raid". The only thing "different" about the combat system compared to most MMOs is you can switch jobs by switching your weapon - meh, not enough to make it a fun experience for me.

    Endgame is "raid raid raid" for those who like to "raid raid raid". There are people in-game whose end-game experience is quite different. They have other hobbies, other interests, other things they do.  I'm among them. 

    So again, how don't I know what I'm talking about?  

    Because everything you've said comes across as someone whose knowledge of the game comes from reading forum threads, not from playing the game itself. If you have played the game, you do a poor job of demonstrating first-hand knowledge. Exaggerating the way you do certainly doesn't help.

    If you tone down the hyperbole, avoid the generalizations, and try to exercise some understanding of the kind of MMORPG you're criticizing, it could help.

    Or maybe you just don't like the fact I think the game is another boring, linear themepark with a FF name slapped on and some pretty graphics to please the grahpic loving crowd.

    I'll say your opinion seems rather malformed, and based on faulty knowledge or understanding of the game. It's certainly not one I'd put a whole lot of weight in, were I looking for some information about the game itself.

     

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by KaitarBesh

    How is my opinion off base? Because it doesn't correspond with -your- opinion? I don't like the game. I think it fell flat. It wasn't unrealistic expectations, it was the fact the game had many features that I thought had been done to death in many, many other MMOs. And most of those MMOs do them better.

    Again, dispute one point I posted above that is false. Is the game not linear? Is the game world not rife with loading screens and invisible walls that make exploration nihl? Is the game not completely geared towards raiding? Are quests not the hold-your-hand-right-here-on-your-map types?

    Can't come up with a "no and this is why" answer to any of those?

    I'd say it's your opinion that's more the moot point, then.

    If you like the same old same old wrapped in a shiny new package, good for you. But the OP asked why this game was so popular because it's pretty much like most other themeparks, and I said I agreed - I don't get it either, it has so many faults that would have caused any other game to flop BUT it has a "Final Fantasy" in the title.  While it's better than the first version, it's definitely nothing special or even that entertaining for someone who has played this -same- game a few dozen times already.

    Sorry if you don't like that, but too bad.

    While I did laugh out loud at the economy comment (along with probably everybody else actually playing this game), as well as the game completely geared towards raiding comment with all the vanity content being put out constantly......

    It doesn't change the fact you are incredibly off-base (rather it reinforces the fact). You list reasons why the game shouldn't be a success and it is still a massive success. Clearly you don't know what you are talking about, because if what you said were true the game wouldn't be a success. You have a glaring flaw in your thinking and it is not my duty to point that out for you. Hilariously according to you the burden of proof is on me, when I think a) the game is a massive success and b) it is a massive success. That is enough to completely disregard your opinion, sadly for you.

     

    There has got to be a name for the act of having an opinion of something and considering that opinion a property of the thing under consideration rather than a property of the person who has the opinion.  What is that?

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by KaitarBesh

    How is my opinion off base? Because it doesn't correspond with -your- opinion? I don't like the game. I think it fell flat. It wasn't unrealistic expectations, it was the fact the game had many features that I thought had been done to death in many, many other MMOs. And most of those MMOs do them better.

    Again, dispute one point I posted above that is false. Is the game not linear? Is the game world not rife with loading screens and invisible walls that make exploration nihl? Is the game not completely geared towards raiding? Are quests not the hold-your-hand-right-here-on-your-map types?

    Can't come up with a "no and this is why" answer to any of those?

    I'd say it's your opinion that's more the moot point, then.

    If you like the same old same old wrapped in a shiny new package, good for you. But the OP asked why this game was so popular because it's pretty much like most other themeparks, and I said I agreed - I don't get it either, it has so many faults that would have caused any other game to flop BUT it has a "Final Fantasy" in the title.  While it's better than the first version, it's definitely nothing special or even that entertaining for someone who has played this -same- game a few dozen times already.

    Sorry if you don't like that, but too bad.

    While I did laugh out loud at the economy comment (along with probably everybody else actually playing this game), as well as the game completely geared towards raiding comment with all the vanity content being put out constantly......

    It doesn't change the fact you are incredibly off-base (rather it reinforces the fact). You list reasons why the game shouldn't be a success and it is still a massive success. Clearly you don't know what you are talking about, because if what you said were true the game wouldn't be a success. You have a glaring flaw in your thinking and it is not my duty to point that out for you. Hilariously according to you the burden of proof is on me, when I think a) the game is a massive success and b) it is a massive success. That is enough to completely disregard your opinion, sadly for you.

     

    There has got to be a name for the act of having an opinion of something and considering that opinion a property of the thing under consideration rather than a property of the person who has the opinion.  What is that?

    Oh, just to clarify the opinion ceased to be the property of said person once he or she started debating it to the property of the thing under consideration. S/he is entitled to said opinion, but only until s/he starts arguing it as truth.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by KaitarBesh

    How is my opinion off base? Because it doesn't correspond with -your- opinion? I don't like the game. I think it fell flat. It wasn't unrealistic expectations, it was the fact the game had many features that I thought had been done to death in many, many other MMOs. And most of those MMOs do them better.

    Again, dispute one point I posted above that is false. Is the game not linear? Is the game world not rife with loading screens and invisible walls that make exploration nihl? Is the game not completely geared towards raiding? Are quests not the hold-your-hand-right-here-on-your-map types?

    Can't come up with a "no and this is why" answer to any of those?

    I'd say it's your opinion that's more the moot point, then.

    If you like the same old same old wrapped in a shiny new package, good for you. But the OP asked why this game was so popular because it's pretty much like most other themeparks, and I said I agreed - I don't get it either, it has so many faults that would have caused any other game to flop BUT it has a "Final Fantasy" in the title.  While it's better than the first version, it's definitely nothing special or even that entertaining for someone who has played this -same- game a few dozen times already.

    Sorry if you don't like that, but too bad.

    While I did laugh out loud at the economy comment (along with probably everybody else actually playing this game), as well as the game completely geared towards raiding comment with all the vanity content being put out constantly......

    It doesn't change the fact you are incredibly off-base (rather it reinforces the fact). You list reasons why the game shouldn't be a success and it is still a massive success. Clearly you don't know what you are talking about, because if what you said were true the game wouldn't be a success. You have a glaring flaw in your thinking and it is not my duty to point that out for you. Hilariously according to you the burden of proof is on me, when I think a) the game is a massive success and b) it is a massive success. That is enough to completely disregard your opinion, sadly for you.

     

    There has got to be a name for the act of having an opinion of something and considering that opinion a property of the thing under consideration rather than a property of the person who has the opinion.  What is that?

    Oh, just to clarify the opinion ceased to be the property of said person once he or she started debating it to the property of the thing under consideration. S/he is entitled to said opinion, but only until s/he starts arguing it as truth.

     

    Right, but that has to be some sort of logical fallacy or something.  It happens on these forums all the time.  I'm sure I've done it myself.  I bet we all have.  It would be really convenient to have a name for it, whatever it is.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • ZizouXZizouX Member Posts: 670

    The game is good.  People play it.  The sum is bigger than its individual parts.  It offers a little bit of everything to everyone.  It's consistent in its quality of story, boss encounters, music, etc.

     

    It's a quality product where people see the value of paying 12-15 bucks a month.  People have spent more money on worse games and no money on horrible games.  If a lot of people are happy paying the monthly sub, then the game is doing something right.

     

    All other games have either had to go F2P or hybrid F2P in the last 5 years.  I can only think of Eve and Wow staying sub.  Wow is the elephant in the room and Eve is a niche game.

     

    FFXIV is the only game that's managed to go P2P when everyone was yelling it will be F2P or collapse in 6/12 months.

     

    Give credit where credit is due.  The game oozes quality.  Don't bash it just because the type of game it is, is not to your liking.  You not liking something (subjective) does not mean that the game is objectively "bad."

     

    For example, I have never ever been able to finish any  game in the Grand Theft Auto series.   Same goes for Skyrim.  They're not my cup of tea.  However, I would never claim the game is bad.  I just prefer more structured story telling (Mass Effect, and less free roaming).

     

    I think many people on these forums who badmouth FFXIV are frustrated that the majority of people like a game and they cannot understand why.  That's more of a reflection of you than FFXIV.

  • fineflufffinefluff Member RarePosts: 452
    Originally posted by Lazzaro

     


    Originally posted by naami

    Originally posted by Lazzaro I know I'm not the audience they're attracting, but people who play besides Combat what else is there to do if you don't want to run dungeons or craft?
    In the coming months they will add the Gold Saucer which is like a mini games/events hub. I know that there will be triple triad (card battling game) and chocobo racing but I think there will be a variety of activities to participate in. Also in the expansion all the new zones will be seamless or so I've heard so you might like to check it out then.

     

    Is that true? Can you link that park about seamless zones?

    Sorry, I believe I've actually misunderstood that. On this reddit thread it says "seamless, only in 3.0 areas".

    http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/2k9wi8/eu_fanfest_opening_ceremony/

    And in this video at 4:50 he says "seamless flying".

    Reading further comments in the reddit thread I believe what they meant is that you can seamlessly transition between your mount running on the ground or flying. Sorry if I got your hopes up lol. I'm bummed now too.

  • AthisarAthisar Member UncommonPosts: 666

    I haven't played the game very much, but from my experiences so far I'd say it all boils down to - it does what it's supposed to exceptionally well. It's one of the most polished MMOs I've played.

    I'm a bit concerned about the news of a cash shop coming, as I very much like the sub model without any extras. If it's just cosmetic pets, fine.

  • HerzyHerzy Member UncommonPosts: 184

    It gives me a warm feeling that they took a major risk, rebooted the damn thing and pulled it off! I don't know who else has done it.

    If anything, in the future, others can point at Square Enix and say "if they did it, we might be able to." But I don't know of any other company that would humble themselves the way SE has. It's a Japanese thing after all; begging for forgiveness and if all else fails, suicide.

  • Spankster77Spankster77 Member UncommonPosts: 487

    OP, FFXIV is popular for a few reasons in my opinion. 

     

    For starters it's Final Fantasy which has a huge fan base.  One of the first RPGs I ever played was Final Fantasy 1 for 8 bit Nintendo.

     

    Next, FFXIV is one of the few very polished games out there, as far as polish goes FFXIV and WoW take the cake. 

     

    Lastly, just like WoW it has something for everyone.  If you like PvE it has well done dungeons and raids.  If you like PvP they have BGs (essentially) and arenas.  If you like crafting, it has one of the most robust crafting systems in the genre.

     

    My three biggest complaints with this game is essentially there is no open world (the whole thing is invisible walls and instanced zones), limited voice overs while questing (lots of reading and clicking), you cant go in the water at all (it's there you can see it but there is an invisible wall preventing you from touching it). 

     

     

  • djrifuldjriful Member CommonPosts: 11

    I'll give you some reason why this appeal to some people.

    Consider myself an old school MMO Veteran, played and beta tested many MMOs in the past 15 years up to today and then coming MMO in beta right now (Star Citizen).

    FFXIV is a pure PvE aspect dungeon raid, which is mostly the case with Final Fantasy world. 

    Us old school were very excited for those type of games back in the day. The young generation might tell us, "dam you old geezer".

    This is something we experienced many years ago and FF is bringing all these aspect back from the dead. 

    --

    Now many of us are now very busy in life, to me MMO is really appealing to the 25+ ages. I hardly met anyone under 20s. Seriously, the younger generations are not interested into these old school MMO.

    Mostly they are all playing RTS, MOBA now.

    --

    Another word: I miss World of Warcraft Classic vanilla, I don't like the new expansion at all. Everything is dumb downed to easy mode.

  • Juice2000Juice2000 Member UncommonPosts: 95
    Another reason its popular is because its very RPGish and what i mean by that is players are very invested and attached to their characters and their stories. This game has more Role Play in it than many rpgs ive seen of late and FF fans love this.
  • itchmonitchmon Member RarePosts: 1,999

    OP, dont let zoning ruin immersion for you if poss.  one of the biggest things FF14 gets right is the immersion.  FF people will play any ff game but they will only stick with it and pay a monthly fee if it truly feels FF, which 14 (now) does.

     

    my list why its so popular:

     

    1) it feels like ff and it has plenty of harkenings back to ff11 which for many (including me) is one of the best mMO experiences there ever was.

    2) the level of sophistication of the art and sound

    3) the pve while "samey" is done well and gives players ample opportunity to group or solo.

    4) leveling multiple jobs and crafting jobs on the same character gives people a sense of investment in the character.  this is why i despise "free level-up token with purchase of expac" offers.

    5) the crafting is complex enough to draw crafting oriented players

    6) it's being supported well and the developer interacts with players openly, whether or not they agree with each other

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, ESO

    Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

    Dwight D Eisenhower

    My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

    Henry Rollins

  • munsil42munsil42 Member UncommonPosts: 95
    I don't know, I love it, why do I care what people say on these forums? If I'm having fun, I'm having fun.
  • ZizouXZizouX Member Posts: 670
    Originally posted by Gregor999
    [mod edit]

    This game launched with a lot of content.  I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.  I don't know of any game that adds this much content this quickly.  

     

    Here's the patch notes for the latest patch.. which came out exactly 3 months from the previous patch.  

     

    http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/4a7a48cd010551b65b1e0f03b318d0d45bf52d59

     

    You can't be making this argument with a straight face.

  • EdliEdli Member Posts: 941
    Originally posted by itchmon

    4) leveling multiple jobs and crafting jobs on the same character gives people a sense of investment in the character.  this is why i despise "free level-up token with purchase of expac" offers.

    So much this. My character has been a blacksmith, archer, monk, tank, healer, fisherman. You get seriously attached to your char, not so much when you continuously reroll. And since almost everyone on the server has one character it helps a lot with player's reputation on the server. On other MMOs you have guilds full of logged out chars since most of them are alts. People that you might know but they're now wandering with another class and had to make another character.

    If there is one thing I want new MMOs to get from this game is all classes on one character. My dude can pick up and learn the axe in the same way he picked up and learned the bow. 

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    Originally posted by KaitarBesh

     You and I have very, very, very different expecations then. I ENJOY exploration in games. In AAR, if I tried to jump into a river from the river bank - nope. Invisible wall.

    There are rivers in ARR where there's no way out of them. I can think of one in the Shroud off the top of my head. There's also holes there which hint at an extended area, but it's blocked off... Why? Because there's no reason to go down there, and there's no way out (currently). There is absolutely no reason you would need to go down there. If there's no reason to go down there, then you are not being blocked from anything, hence there is nothing wrong with preventing you from doing so. 

    They are not, in any way, preventing you from playing the game.

    Can I jump over a small fence? Nope, invisible wall. 

    How tall of a fence are we talking about here? Define "small". I jump over plenty of them, and they're ones I would reasonably expect to be able to jump over. Anywhere there's a low/small fence, and somewhere for you to be on the other side of it, you can jump over it. If you have no reason to be on the other side of that fence, if there's someplace you wouldn't reasonably expect to get to, or get out of, then yes... you will be blocked. 

    Again, they are not, in any way, blocking access to content, or preventing you from playing the game.

    Can I climb that hill? Nope, invisible wall.

    How steep is the hill? Is it a place you would reasonably expect to be able to climb? Are we talking "hill" here, or a cliff? There's a difference.

    Can I go down into that canyon? Nope, invisible wall.

    Is there any reason to go down into that canyon? Is there content down there? Can you get out of it if you went down there? If the answer to those is "No", then there's no reason for you to go down there, you aren't being blocked from anything, and there is nothing wrong with blocking it. Jumping into a canyon that provides absolutely zero reward for doing so is pointless... hence, there's no way to do so.

    Is jumping into a canyon, to confirm that there's nothing down there, really so crucial to your experience that SE choosing to block it off is completely unacceptable? 

    It's like arguing that a closet door shouldn't be locked, because, you know... you might want  to stand in it someday... just because you can.

    If you like linear, good for you. I hate it. I like to go off the beaten path and see what's out there, and that is definitely, definitely not possible in AAR's small, linear zones that are rife with invisible walls.  They -are- everywhere. 

    Now you're just conflating terms for the sake of arguing. And you're still exaggerating.

    Restricting access to locations you have no reason to be in, or otherwise couldn't get to by normal means, is not making the game "linear".

    Linear means "only one route to follow to reach a destination". With few exceptions, that is not the case in ARR.

    As you should know, even with how little you claim to have playedit, there are multiple ways to reach many areas in the game. There are multiple paths that converge on the same place. There are plenty of places you can jump off cliffs, cut through tunnels, etc. to get to other locations, rather than running around. I jump off cliffs all the time in places like N. Shroud and Outer La Noscea, for example, in order to shave off some time getting to a FATE or a Hunt.. 

    I am playing ARR, and the game I'm playing simply does not resemble the one you're trying to describe. Not even close.

    Sorry, you're wrong. I tested it quite a bit and found it to be true.

    So, you provide generalized, non-specific assertions of stuff you seem to feel is "everywhere" in ARR, while failing to provide examples to prove your case... and instead just declare me wrong.

    Well, that's convenient. 

    Something about debating with certain types of people being like playing chess with a pigeon is coming to mind...

    And even if it wasn't true, it doesn't fix the problem of the zones being small, cramped, and having to go through loading screens to get to west, east, north, south regions of -everything-.

    A problem for you, apparently. Not a problem for everyone. Sorry, you're not the arbiter of what is or isn't "acceptable", be it "2002" or otherwise.

    As for size of zones... Just for kicks, I took a break from typing this, and chose 4 zones to ride through. I rode from one zone line to the other, on Chocobo, making as much of a beeline between them as the terrain would allow, cutting cross-country, etc. The goal is to see the shortest amount of time it could take to get from one end to the other. Here's the rough times in minutes...

    1. Central Shroud - from Grid zone to S. Shroud Zone: ~2:05

    2. South Shroud - from C. Shroud zone to E. Thanalan Zone - ~1:30

    3. Eastern Thanalan - from S. Shroud zone to C. Thanalan zone - ~1:40

    4. Lower La Noscea - from Ferry to E. La Noscea zone: ~3:10

    Now, again, that is riding in as short a path as possible, through a thin sliver of each zone, not following paths, and doing it on Chocobo. During normal gameplay, you are not going to be doing that; chances are you'll be moving around within the zones, doing various content, and doing it largely on foot. For going longer distances, or moving between zones, you'd likely be teleporting between Aetherytes, not running on chocobo/foot (which makes your complaint even more moot).

    During normal gameplay, you're spending a lot of time in a single zone, not repeatedly moving around between them. And hell, when you're doing time-sensitive content, like Hunts or FATEs,  zones can tend to feel anything *but* "small and cramped". 

    At the end of the day, though, you can insist that your personal issue with loading screens is some kind of major problem with the game... It doesn't matter. It's your own personal opinion and, looked at objectively and realistically, it's not very rational. The size of the zones are only a problem to you, because you are looking for something to complain about, in a game you are not playing, and haven't played for at least a year - yet still somehow feel qualified to talk about what it is or isn't.

    To say nothing of the towns themselves. This was expected in 2002, but the technology now has moved far beyond "let's step into another area OH A LOADING SCREEN" crap.  Or you'd think it would have - but that's the problem with MMOs catering to the console crowd who seem to enjoy loading screens and everything staying linear all the time.

    You'd think it would have, because you seem to have a huge hang-up with the idea of zone lines. To me, zones and zone lines aren't an issue, in 2002 or in 2014. Zones versus seamless is a preference, not some concept with an expiration date that SE has chosen to ignore. There are plenty of games out there still, that have released in the last year or so, with zone lines and loading screens.

    Curious, when you're getting around, do you run between areas on foot, or do you use the Aetheryte crystals? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess, that if you're wanting to get from C. Thanalan to S. Shroud, you're going to be teleporting, not running on foot. And if you are running on foot, you're spending at least a couple minutes in each zone (assuming you're making a bee-line and not diverted or distracted along the way).That is not "constant zoning". 

    And good for you if you like FFXI and AAR. Many FFXI players -did not- like AAR for many reasons.

    A large number of people who originally played FFXI have moved to ARR and are still playing and enjoying it. Not sure what you're trying to get at there. Many tried ARR, find it didn't suit them and went back to FFXI... or moved on to something else altogether, because FFXI is no longer the game they enjoyed since Abyssea. 

    Spending enough time on various forums or Reddit, or talking to people personally, bears that out.

    Are their thoughts and opinions worthless? Nope. Just different than yours.

    Well, I don't know what their opinions are, because I'm not talking to them, and you don't represent them. Please stick to what you know, and what we're discussing, because that's all you can speak for.

    It's also funny that, after flat out telling me "I'm wrong" about something that is 100% opinion and preference, you have the gall to turn around and lecture me about "differing opinions". You ought to learn to embody an idea yourself before you start lecturing others about it. Otherwise, you're a hypocrite.

    Like it or not, my reasons are -feasible- enough that it keeps ME from playing the game. I'm not alone. Your opinions, likes, and dislikes are -not- the be all end all of gaming merits. Get off your high horse.

    I'm not on a high-horse, nor do I need one.

    You made assertions which rang as exaggerated or plain inaccurate to me, and I called you on them. You've given vague opinions about non-specific "issues" which you've provided no context or examples of. You come across as someone who wants to complain about something, but can't really articulate any specific example, so you just throw around generalizations that are pure exaggeration and not at all representative of reality. You can't do that and expect to not be challenged. 

     

    As for FATES - uhm, yeah. Every time I was trying to get a quest line done, WAHM, FATE zerg.

    Exaggeration. Full stop. I'm questing quite a lot in this game, doing leves, quests, hunts, etc, across all levels. FATEs are *not* popping up that much, or in that many locations. Quests and FATEs overlap sometimes. Not even nearly "every time". 

    See, this is your problem. You repeatedly inflate your statements with blatant hyperbole, rendering them completely absurd to anyone who actually is playing the game and knows better.

    I hate public questing systems, I disliked it in GW2 and RIFT, and in AAR it was even more annoying because it was the "fastest" way to level once you exhausted quests. Sure, you could do leves and dungeons and hunting quests, but everyone was doing FATES because that is the be all end all of "fast leveling" in that game. And it's boring as hell for me. Don't like the fact I find FATES boring? Too bad. You can find it fun all you like, but I hated trying to do anything and getting a FATE event/zerg shoved in my face every 5 fricken minutes.

    You're free to like or dislike whatever you like. I couldn't care less. Just stop lying or exaggerating about your experience with it. It's impossible to have a reasonable discussion with someone who just keeps exaggerating and making crap up.

    Hand-holdy quests? People gripe about this in every other game, and yet it's somehow "fine" and "fun" in AAR? Please. Blind fanboys would think so, and FF has those in spades.

    Look, can you please stop trying to appeal to others to bolster your own arguments, and stick to speaking for yourself? Please. You keep going off on these tangents about "other people". You don't speak for others. Knock it off, please. Thank you.

    I said in my previous reply that I'm not a fan of the style of questing ARR has, either. Did you perhaps conveniently ignore or skip over that part? I also stated that it's a standard part of themepark MMOs and so I realize it's what I'm going to deal with if I play this kind of game.  There's a difference between "liking something" and "being able to live with it". There's enough else in ARR that is done very well, for me, that I can overlook the questing; I can "live with it". Not to mention that, despite the hand-holding/guidance, many of the quests are still challenging enough.

    And nope, sorry, the end game focus is raiding in this game. There are other things to do, but they offer very little in the way of rewarding progression, either horizontal or vertical. Very few MMOs offer much beyond the "raid at end game" mentality, and people gripe about this and want more. But it's somehow ok if AAR does it, because it's FF, right? Right.  I'd argue EQ2 has much better crafting and "stuff to do" for non-raiders. That's my opinion. Don't like it? Too bad.

    And here you go speaking in generalizations again.

    I'll say this one more time: Stop attempting to speak for others to bolster your own opinions. Knock it off.

    There's not enough for you in this game - based on  your limited experience with it, no less. There's plenty for others, and myself (and I refer to "others" as people I talk to and play with on a daily basis). 

    Also, if you're not playing the game currently,and haven't played it since a little bit after launch, then how can you possibly attempt to argue for what the game does or doesn't have? You're making the same mistake as another person I dealt with recently... making assertions and voicing on opinions on something you have no first-hand experience with. You can't do that and expect to be taken seriously. It's not even opinion. It's you rambling on about something you know little to nothing about.

    And yes, actually, I did play the game. I beta tested it and played it for a bit after launch, waiting for that "amazing" experience the fan kids kept talking about. It never happened. I just grew more bored, felt more restricted, and realized it was a shiny package with the same old crap done in the same old way. 

    So, a product on the market didn't appeal to you as much as it appeals to others. I'm shocked!

    Also, you've indicated a dislike of things that we've already established are a standard part of themepark MMOs... So, why exactly would you expect to like something you already know doesn't cater to your personal tastes?

    What you're doing is like complaining that a seafood restaurant served you lobster, and you hate seafood. It's ridiculous.

    So no, I don't "get" why this game gets a free pass as a "great game" when it offers the same boring routines that every other themepark offers. Oh wait, the FF name and pretty graphics. Ah, gotcha.

    Right, because the FF name and arguably better graphics quality in 1.0 made all the difference in the world, right?

    You're seriously flailing about at this point. 

    Don't like my opinion on it? Don't believe me for some weird reason? You don't have to. You can have your opinion. But know what? I think the game is just mediocre, at best, and definitely nothing that keeps my interest.  Wah wah if you get upset when someone else calls out reasons why they think the game you oh-so-love isn't that great. People have done it to games I like. So what. I get over it. Learn to do the same.

    I'm perfectly happy to discuss your opinions with you. If only you would actually present them as opinions, not fact, would not attempt to tell people who are playing a game that they're wrong about it when you're not. If you would stop exaggerating reality, or attempting to speak for people you don't represent, there'd be nothing to call you out on. If you'd stop attempting to argue about a game as it is now, when you - by your own say-so - haven't played it about a year... and limit your "opinions" to that experience, rather than attempting to carry on like you somehow have any clue what the game is like now, you wouldn't look so foolish.

    I can only respond to what you say. If you don't want someone to call you on your BS... you should probably stop shoveling it out.

     

  • daltaniousdaltanious Member UncommonPosts: 2,381
    Originally posted by Lazzaro

    Don't get me wrong, Yoshi P has done an excellent job from bring it back from the dead, but I honestly don't get how it's so popular.

    ...

    Well for me is not at all popular. But FF as franchise to me is still very popular. But I never let PAST to ruin my PRESENT. :-) I do not like to live in past. :-) As for FF14, original release was worst disappointment ever (exactly for my love for lore) .... but even ARR was not so far. :-(

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