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Star Citizen First Person Shooter Reddit AMA Summary

DocBrodyDocBrody Member UncommonPosts: 1,926

check this out, thanks to Bulldog from the RSI forum here is a summary of QA from Reddit regarding the First Person Shooter mechanics

 

""The Reddit AMA by [Redacted] was done today and there were a lot of questions. I realize a lot of people might be interested and don't want to wade through all the responses so I've condensed it down to only the questions that actually got answered (it's still a ton). :D I eliminated a few that seemed to just be different versions of the same question or ones that weren't really asking about [Redacted] or how fps will work in SC. If you'd like the unfiltered version it's here http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2k7kuu/we_are_the_star_citizen_fps_team_ask_us_anything/
Also for those who didn't see here's the ask a dev page [Redacted] is doing https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/193366/ask-a-dev-redacted-fps-team/p1 There are some really good questions and answers that aren't on the Reddit AMA, enjoy.""



Q - Will you be able to damage a ships systems from the inside intentionally or non-intentionally?
A - Absolutely!



Q - Would you be able to elaborate on how you see the details of that working?
A- There are various systems in a ship, gravity, power, oxygen, various hazards, your engine, shields, etc. - when you start playing with power in the ship, for example, you can accidentally overload a system and have to run and fix it! or you could... 'accidentally' throw a grenade into an unprotected gravity generator :P



Q - For ship boarding, what have you all come up with for actually entering other ships e.g. cutting through the hull, forcing hatches, shooting out the windows, etc.?
A - you can cut through the hull, sneak on board through many mischievous techniques, blasting hatches, etc. entry points are very carefully chosen, however. essentially they're 'vulnerable' points of a ship/station. Windows are generally extremely fortified.



Q - What is the timeline for the FPS module release? Is it going to be upgraded incrementally?
A - The FPS module will be released early next year and receive continuous updates.



Q - Ships can have AI crew members if its a multi person ship and the player "hires" AI crew members to fill out the roles of their ship (alternatively your friends could do this). I would imagine that those crew members would take up arms if your ship got boarded or if you boarded an enemy ship.
Humans only at launch but there are alien species in the game with their own ships, languages, commerce etc. and they are scheduled to become playable but not until X time after launch.
A - Correct ^ :)



Q - Will people be able to bunny hop to avoid fire? Or will jumping be limited to prevent this?
A - NO BUNNY HOPPING.



Q - What games are you drawing mechanical inspiration from?
A - A mixture of Counter-Strike, Rainbow Six, Arma, Delta Force, Kill Zone



Q - Does anyone on the team have any experience whatsoever on games like Counter-Strike, Rainbow Six, Arma, Delta Force, Kill Zone?
A - yes we have a very experienced fps team here!



Q - Have you looked at DUST 514 and the Project Legion from CCP Games? Specifically the ideals they are going for, not what they currently have
A - No, but i am a huge fan of Planet Side 2 which has some similar concepts. I love large scale cause&effect gameplay!



Q - How do you mix those games, for example, some are "1 shot kill" with wounds. Others are "health bar." Some have tactics with distinct roles, others are homogenized where anyone can do anything...
I dunno, it sounds like you listed the 5 most successful tactical shooters while deliberately staying away from action shooters.
Which "rainbow 6," for example? The original was more about planning and tactics where the console-itis versions are about run and gun...

A - Its more about some core fundamentals and the overall theory of how they're played, not necessarily how your gun points at the screen and how fast you move. We reference that more as a, some elements here, some elements there... mix them together.... ???? .... profit!



Q - Can you provide an example of the kind of gameplay experience you're looking for? Maybe a description of what an encounter between two players might be like in terms of lethality, weapons used, moves used, length of play, etc?
A - there are so many. lets just pull one randomly from the sky.
A Persistent Universe experience. I'm a stealthy, solo player. I find a wrecked ship, i know scavengers will be around soon. I find a crate and put myself in it. I let the scavengers take the crate and put me in their ship. When i'm on their ship, some time later, i get out of the crate. Very quietly, i rummage around and find some goodies i like. I steal those...
now i can either - A) Jump out the airlock and call a ride or B) go to their engine room and self destruct their ship or C) quietly hunt and execute the entire staff and take their ship.... or Z) they could have scanned the crate properly before loading it, blasted it with their ship and me with it....


Q - When can we expect to see an alpha version of the FPS module released?
A- early next year!



Q - How will damage be handled in the FPS mode? Are we looking at personal shields or just body armor?
A - Generally just body armor but you can get gadgets to give you boosts.



Q - On top of this, what sort of health mechanic do you plan to use? And if the player is wounded, will the experience slower movement and greater weapon sway etc?
A - Absolutely, your limb damage will have severe impacts on how the mechanics work - and it is limb specific too, not just an overall of 'oh youre kind of hurt'. For example, if your left arm is hurt but you throw grenades with your right, your right throw won't really be impacted.



Q - Will people be able to select their dominant hand? Or will everyone be presumed to be right-handed?
A - it is planned for players to choose their dominant hand it will have a direct impact resulting from limb damage.



Q - Will the death of a spaceman mechanic be addressed in fps gameplay itself, making the players inherently more cautious? For instance, some games allow characters to heal automatically, while others allow med kits to restore all health. Will there be more realistic approaches? Med kits only restoring to a certain point (80%) or only taking effect temporarily (boosting health for 5 minutes) or minor gunshots tearing holes in space suits so the vacuum of space can kill?
A - You are absolutely correct on all points, maybe not the tearing holes in space suits part but on other systems yes. the mechanics are built to discourage players from going ballistic and be very cautious while playing.



Q - Is it fair to say then that you could expect to see people playing the FPS more like splinter cell, with lots of quick ambush type firefights?
A - yep, the stronger armors (TITAN armor and Heavy Armor) may have longer, face to face combat.



Q - Exactly how many bears are we expected to see in the fps module? Also, when the space whale is finally implemented how quickly can we expect players to be digested?
A - Didn't you hear? There is a space bear at every security check point, at least one.... and it'll definitely maul your face off if you look at him in the eyes.
the space whale will be implemented at the end of days.

 

Q - Couple of basic questions, feel free to go into as much detail as you can:
What kind of improvements can we expect for player movement, both animation wise and as far as controls/feel? What options will be available to us as far as movement goes (prone, lean, slide to cover, etc.)?
How much weapon customization can we expect, both for the initial FPS module release and the final full game release? Something as simple as changing optics and such, or crazy advanced like being able to change any component (stocks, barrels, triggers, etc), or add any components (optics, grips, lights, etc.) to any available rail/mount? What sort of character damage model can we expect? Get shot and there's some sparks/blood depending on armor/health, or get shot and have chunks of armor fly off to reveal clothing/flesh underneath? If someone gets hit with a rocket, do they get thrown back and fall over or are we going to be scraping them off the walls? And for my final, and critically important question, what are the chances of getting a futuristic, but still recognizable, version of the venerable 1911 to add to my collection? :)
A - movement goes (prone, lean, slide to cover, etc.)?
1) Everything is animation driven. What your character looks like he is doing, you are seeing. This brings us interesting challenges but we're ironing them out as i write this! Movement will have walk/run/sprint/crouch/prone/slide(on knees)/sidle/cover/leaning/peeking/climbing/etc. The movement is designed to discourage players going ballistic though, so its not super fast paced like COD games.
2) The initial offering will have a little customization but more will come into play down the road. lots of attachments and ammo types!
3) I don't think the gore detail will go super far, but who knows, maybe one day! for now it will mostly be animation and particle/decal focused.
4) I'm sure there'll be the 'classic' weapons that can be found somewhere in the universe, i don't know about that weapon in particular though!



Q - an you give an insight on how the cover system will work? Will cover be destructible?
A - there will be some destruction but its not a key component as most of the environments are, well, solid metal :) cover has a smooth interpolation system that will allow players do all the various moves they would expect in cover (lean/peek/crouch/move in cover/etc.)



Q - As you said, almost everything in a ship will be solid metal. So will there be a way that bullets (if any are still used 900 years into the future) or lasers (if possible) can bounce of those surfaces when they hit at the right angle?
A - There may be ricocheting bullets but its not currently a major focus.



Q - My main concern with the FPS module is that realism will trump gameplay. One of the concerning things to me and many other people is that the POV of your character seems to be bound by some arbitrary animation that causes you, when turning, to reset your torso, causing a odd stutter like feeling. I understand that a person would need to reset ones body when turning however it yanks the player out of the immersion, by attempting to create immersion. My question is how are you balancing issues such as this, where the fun is quite obviously being trumped by a clunky albeit realistic mechanic? I think many people would appreciate a more conventional mechanic to a mechanic that is intrusive.
A - This is definitely introducing challenges, to us as designers its important to nail down the right mixture to where it feels fluid and non-existent. This will be an ongoing polish but it feels great right now and will only get better over time



Q - I've been so excited about this game since I first saw the kickstarter, and it's only continued to keep my interest. How much will FPS gameplay be part of the finished game? Will it be optional, or something you'll wind up having to do during the game?
A - Squadron 42 has missions with FPS mechanics. The persistent universe and the fps module are 2 seperate things as well. I'd imagine you wouldn't have to do too much of it in the PU if you didn't want to.



Q - Hello team! Very excited about the fps side of SC. The space boarding, station assaults, how does the physics of chemical weapons type function in space, since the lack of air?(we'll be needing to put the weapon inside an air filled space suit just like in Firefly?)
A - there are some changes based on your atmosphere but its limited! We don't want to make it overbearing, but things like oxygen, radiation, temperature and gravity impact a lot of systems.



Q - What kind of gadgets will we have to work with?
A -tons, holograms, claymore like objects, personal healing, drills for doors/vents, shields, grenades, trip wires... the gadgets will really expand and offer a ton of ways to customize your strategy.



Q - an airlock is breached, will the vacuum in the ship begin pulling unrestrained items out of the airlock, including players?
A -you better believe it! This introduces many mechanics. If an attacking team doesn't want to deal with them, you can also latch onto a ship and create a tunnel between your ship and the enemies, which will allow for a smooth transition.



Q - Hey there! Welcome! While mindlessly blasting away enemies can be fun, team-based and objective-based gameplay (think BF2142 titan mode) has always been much more rewarding to me in the long run. What plans (if any) do you currently have to support these aspects?

A - The FPS Module has tons of predefined game modes and levels that are designed around perfecting your skill on a mechanic in the game. There will be lots of scenarios that explore cooperative/team based mechanics. Of course, in the PU there will be almost endless possibilities. it is best to train yourself up in as many different situations as possible!



Q - How will the transition from flying to FPS work?
I'm asking because ideally you want to fly with hotas and switch to KB/mouse for the FPS. Also, will the FOV be adjustable? Some of us play close to a huge screen and a small/wrong FOV will make you sick.
A - Generally if you are playing with a peripheral for flying you would just reach over to your mouse and keyboard when it comes time for FPS but you can certainly play fps with other peripherals, it just may not be the best input method available. The FOV is something dialed in for now but we'll explore options with it down the road. there are just many variables that come in to play with how the camera is set and how the hud is displayed that makes this tricky.



Q - Hi [REDACTED]. What kind of modularity will weapons (Pistols, Rifles, ect) have? Can we customize them inside and out, or just externally? Extreme customization details like stacking different types of the same caliber rounds in a magazine, or adding a longer/heavier barrel?
A - There will be attachments for weapons and different ammo types, the amount of customization will vary based on the weapon.



Q - Are you developing a special "netcode" for FPS, and how will this relate with the prediction-heavy code used in space combat?
A - yes the fps netcode is very different than the space combat. Prediction is a lot lower to ensure there is very little rubber banding.



Q - How has Star Citizen compared to other current or past project REDACTED has worked on? Are there are specific difficulties or challenges that you face on SC that you have not faced on other projects before?
A -The animation driven system is the most challenging aspect of the development. It means the first/third person are the same and what your character does is what you see. we've implemented many mechanics to counter-balance certain things and will continue to polish and smooth out kinks as a result of this system.

 

 

Q - Are you aware that fixed FoV, headbob and motion blur can in combination or individually cause significant motion sickness in a large portion of the gaming population? If so, are you taking steps to make these settings user configurable?
The locked visual scope combined with the animations in the hangar are causing a lot of people who don't normally get motion sick to get motion sick in the hangar module, I would hate for that to affect the FPS as well.
A - This is an interesting area we are still exploring, the big thing is how the game is animation driven, the camera is where your eyes physically are. The hud is on the helmet, not on your face. there is no different 'first person arms' like in other fps games. because of this, we have to dial things to very specific settings but are observing it carefully and figuring out what we can expose.



Q - Will there things such as tear gas/smoke we can use when boarding a target vessel?
A - There'll be tons of gadgets, grenades and weapons for your boarding adventures. the anxiety of not knowing what an attacking force might have when they blast a hole in will be intense!



Q - Is the cover system a sticky cover like Killzone 2 and Crysis 2, or a free cover system like Far Cry 3?
A - Its more of a free cover system like Far Cry 3



Q - Aside from all the criticism you will be seeing upon release, how anxious are you about getting this into the hands of us players?
A - There are radically new FPS mechanics in the FPS Module, because of that, we'll need to be vigilante with balancing and making sure players aren't exploiting certain features. Rest assured, we're going to stay on top of it like crazy!



Q - I'm really looking forward to this part of Star Citizen. What kinds of unique weaponry will there be? Also, will there be an option to play in Third person as well?
A -Tons of weapons, ballistics, energy based, air based, radiation based, you name it! there won't be any third person though, the fps mechanics are very intense and tactical, third person gameplay allows players to look around corners and stuff without the danger of revealing themselves.



Q - Can we expect more tactical gameplay (Rainbow Six, etc) or more like run and gun (call of duty)?
A - Absolutely, the core of the FPS mechanics is very tactical



Q - Will weapon recoil affect player momentum in ZeroG scenarios?
A - Generally no, some weapons will though. The amount of recoil from most weapons won't have an impact intense enough to really change the way you're moving.



Q - Can you tell us more about player's "health"? Is it going to be like in older FPS titles where you have a set amount of hit points (take 100 damage and you die)? Is it going to be specific to body parts, like in Fallout for example? Or is it going to be like in Arma/DayZ, where you don't take damage but "bleed out", so even if you're shot down and unconscious, someone can come to you and fix you up? Basically, how difficult is it going to be to die? Does it happen with one sniper shot, with one shotgun blast, one stray bullet, or will dying be a lengthy process during which other players can drag you to safety, fix you up (or at least stabilize you) even after you're knocked out?
A - It's a mixture of all 3, your limbs all equal a total health but those limb states will have an impact on how quickly your overall health dwindles and bleeding out is a state that can happen if any limb is 'ruined', which can make you die rather quickly.



Q - 1.) What kinds of FPS missions/events/etc will there be besides on board player ships?
2.) Will there be social hubs on stations or planets within the FPS module?
A - 1) There will be lots of styles of gameplays and levels, like tdm style, seek and destroy, capture and hold, etc. they will vary depending on the style of the level. Scenarios is a special type of game mode, that allows players to really define what they want to do. 2) The FPS Module is like Arena Commander, its very specific maps/modes only, the FPS mechanics in the Persistent Universe is a lot different, which allows full freedom of players, exploration of social hubs/etc.



Q - Will limb severing be possible? What level of realism in terms of gore should we expect?
A - I dont know about limb severing as that enters gore territory but your limbs will certainly be 'ruined' and therefore useless and need to be replaced with a fake limb.



Q - In the recent 'Sneak Peek' showed a shop containing old earth weapons. Will they be in-game or just placeholders? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0ucIIkCUAA9HO5.png
A - There'll certainly be the 'classics' but they'll be rare and generally - not very effective unless you're not wearing armor.



Q - How did you become the Star Citizen FPS Team? Is it your concept and you found a home where you could develop it, were you staff assigned to it, or were you hired on contract specifically for this job? Funny anecdotes about how any individual on the team got there by complete chance are more than welcome, of course.
A - We me the SC initially to possibly do some space ships, but the relationship quickly turned into a shared desire to do something really amazing with FPS. We worked closely with Chris to make sure it was what he envisioned and really created a radical new approach to fps.



Q - Ships have shields, but will there be man portable shields? (Wearable, or as portable, deployable cover.)
A - There absolutely will be portable shields!



Q - What has been the best thing about working on Star Citizen?
A - The reaction from the fans and watching our team push itself to never before seen levels!



Q - If I'm fighting on a ship and a bullet pierces the hull or an explosion goes of causing a hull breach, can everyone be sucked into space? Also if that happens, will there be an emergency lock-down that shuts doors to the breached section so the whole ship does not depressurize?
A - yes everyone will be sucked out unless you turn on your boots to suction to a surface in time! Most rooms that are near a hull will have 2 airlock doors that automatically shut in case of decompression.



Q - How many different gun types are y'all going to have? There's generally a breakdown of pistols, rifles, shotguns and machine guns; how will that translate to SC?
A - We'll have your standard weapons like pistols, shotguns, smgs, assault rifles, sniper rifles - as well as more exotic weapons, that dive into various other types of ammunition and powers.



Q - How long the FPS development is initially planned? How many people is working on the module now and in the future?
A - The FPS is being developed primarily here at [redacted], however other aspects are being developed at other studios too. Our team here is around 30. We'll be working on this for a long time and continue to update and add features!



Q - Will the cybernetic limb replacements from previous injuries affect ability during combat (whether adverse or favourable)?
A - There certainly will be some gains to having a cybernetic limb for certain elements. This puts you at risk in other areas too, especially from EMP type damage or radiation/laser weaponry.

 

Q- What would you say is your biggest challenge in making an FPS for a new property like Star Citizen?
A - it has to be different, not for the sake of being different, but because the vision of Star Citizen is to introduce players to an immersive world that challenges everything they've known about playing in a game world.



Q - What directions has Chris Roberts given you regarding the visual style and mechanics of FPS?
A - He is very hands on and quick to say what he does and doesnt like! It was very interesting because he pushed us creatively and made us get out of our comfort zones, which allowed us to truly excel as developers.



Q - What kind of difficulties are you having in adapting a spaceflight-sim engine to produce solid FPS gameplay and control? Non-[Redacted] Answer - Its not a space fight sim engine. It's CRYEngine (which is FPS) that's being adapted for spaceflight
A - True, however, almost all mechanics the cryengine had for FPS we had to rewrite to achieve what we're trying to do. Its very challenging!



Q - Will the FPS camera be fixed? It's really awkward in the Hangar Module and I don't want to hear that it's like that by design. Non-[Redacted] Answer - IIRC, the current first person mechanics are placeholder until the FPS stuff gets integrated and replaces it.
A - yeah the current camera is different then what we're doing and they'll merge eventually.



Q - For the initial FPS release, which looks like it'll be in early 2015, will it be small planetside based maps for us to test or will it be more on space station style maps? Will we see a similar mode to capture the core? Finally from just the teaser the FPS module looks epic!
A - We're planning on all sorts of environments - planetside, space station, space ship, and in other scenarios you'd see around the galaxy. These will be revealed in more detail soon!



Q - Are there different roles and how varied are they? For example, med techs, engineers, hackers, etc. I know we're not character-skill based and it's all about the gear, but how many (ball park) types of gear roles are we looking at here?
A - Its really whatever you want it to be, i couldn't even give you an estimate right now because we're still trying to explore other gadgets that can be used in the tons of scenarios around.



Q - As far as movement and aiming, what do you feel is the closest comparable first person shooter to this aspect of star citizen?
Floaty jumping like halo, with no sprinting, prone position, or aim penalties for recoil and moving?
Realistic movement and aiming like the battlefield franchise?
Or simulated movement and aiming like ARMA?
Second question: What are your plans for the heaviest of armor systems available to players. I've heard it mentioned somewhere by CR, I think in one of the 10FTC episodes, that it would resemble a powered exoskeleton. How heavy are we talking about here? Warhammer 40k Space Marine Power Armor? Terminator Armor? A dreadnought?
A - its a mixture of simulated movement like ARMA and Counter-Strike.
The TITAN armor is more like the MAXX suits in Planetside 2.



Q - How many weapons can we expect to carry?
A - This varies based on the armor type you are wearing. Some armor allows you to carry more weapons than others.



Q - I would like to ask if you guys are planning on changing how the player movement feels. A lot of games have different takes on this, such as how most Source engine games feel instant, quick, and more responding, but other games like Arma 2/3 are sluggish, slow, but realistic. In order to make the FPS portion more playable and enjoyable, are you willing to change the movement that the player has, or keep it the same as how we walk around in our hangar?
A - The current movement is a lot different than the hangar. the challenge is finding the balance, we feel that moving smoothly and having control is the most important but it should still feel immersive and "realistic". We'll constantly be ironing this out to ensure its a smooth experience.



Q - How tough has it been to make the FPS module not VR sickness inducing with the Rift? (assuming y'all have Rifts and done optimizations for it)
A - we haven't been doing rift development in house here, but have been making our mechanics with VR in mind down the road.




Q - How much work has been done integrating the gameplay mechanics you've developed with the work the other studios have done? Have there been any significant challenges with the game's modular development style?
A -Absolutely, it does happen a bit where someone may be working on an element that changes everything we're doing. however, we have engineers that are constantly working to make sure it is solid. They will all merge over time, one by one, into one solid experience!



Q - Hi FPS team, I am trying to figure out what kind of aesthetic design you guys have written.
Care to elaborate your aesthetics goals for the FPS part of the game ?
A - making a world that feels like every inch has a purpose, has been used/can be used is really important to us. the inch by inch detail is critical and we maintain constant focus on that. The overall style is always to achieve the fiction behind what you are experiencing. If its worn down, clean, military or other it will radically alter the aesthetics of the environment.



Q - Will we be able to set traps throughout our ships to disrupt an enemy invader?
A -Yes, there are lots of gadgets you can use to setup complex defenses!



Q - Will all the weapon/attachment/game type options be available right off the bat? Or will there be some sort of unlock system?
A - Since its a persistent game you will have to earn gadgets, weapons and attachments.



Q - What is the expected lethality of say a heavy sniper rifle vs say, a standard ORC Armored target? Will we see one-shot kills on head shots, or will it be more of an armor wear-down mechanic?
A - With the mixture of weapons, ammo types, attachments and armors, theres numerous variables to consider. Snipers will certainly have 'armor penetrating' guns and ammo for heavy armored players. with the right rifle and ammo, you can definitely 1 shot kill a heavy armored player in the head. However, the balance mechanics there will be intense (like it may not just be click and fire, there may be a warm up before the shot).



Q - Can I have a flamethrower?
Can I have a battle axe?
Can I set up prox mines like in goldeneye?
A - flame throwers will certainly be a possibility not sure about a battle axe but who knows! there certainly is proximity mines
that would make for a fearsome character encounter :E



Q - How are you handling aiming and accuracy? Is it common COD/BF model of inaccurate hipfire, ADS for slower movement and better accuracy, or is it like Counterstrike without ADS for the most part? Will shooting while moving have enough accuracy to be useful outside of suppressing/potshots, or will we stop moving every time we want to shoot with accuracy?
A - Where your weapon points is where your weapon shoots. The third person gun is what your gun will actually do, which makes not aiming down iron sights very risky business. you certainly can run down a hall shooting but you'll be insanely inaccurate. it is recommended to ADS and walk calm during your encounters.

 

Q - Will fps combat also allow some moves like beating, kicking, choking or throwing opponents?
A - There is a brawling system that has some mechanics like this but not overboard, we want it to be a last resort mechanic instead of a focus!



Q - Will it be possible to holster or put away ones weapon for moving around with no weapons drawn, or must one run around pointing the weapon at everyone and everything all the time?
A - you can holster your weapon at any time



Q - Will people have the option to opt-in or opt-out of the FPS experience if all they want to do is fly ships?
A - In the PU you can certainly avoid it as much as possible. Now i don't know about 100% avoidable (e.g. if a gu5:08 PM 10/24/2014y comes onto your ship.... youre going to have to deal with it!) - but we understand the division. thats why its important for the hardcore fps players and the hardcore pilots to look at each other as necessary to coexist!

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Comments

  • KuinnKuinn Member UncommonPosts: 2,072
    If the game holds together when it launches, it will be something amazing. Though, it will be so complex that there's bound to be problems, I only hope nothing game breaking, I'm willing to forgive A LOT of little problems to experience something this grand.
  • PioneerStewPioneerStew Member Posts: 874

    Not convinced by this; better to do one thing well than two things poorly.  

    I am concerned by the shifting goals on this game, I wish they would stop expanding the budget, the programme and the content, create some firm targets and hit them.  

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,838

    Grandiose, overly ambitious goals, wrapped inside a feature creeping extra module?  Who does that remind me of?

     

    The talk is impressive, but if they can get this out 'in early 2015'  without significant, game breaking glitches, it will be miraculous.   Because talk is lots cheaper, and doesn't have to show up in the real world.....

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • DocBrodyDocBrody Member UncommonPosts: 1,926
    Originally posted by Arglebargle

    wrapped inside a feature creeping extra module?  Who does that remind me of?

     

    The talk is impressive, but if they can get this out 'in early 2015'  without significant, game breaking glitches, it will be miraculous.   Because talk is lots cheaper, and doesn't have to show up in the real world.....

    announced and in development since Q4 2012, launch features are "feature creep"..? Sure, keep the badmouthing up, some people have their own special reasons and interests for criticing SC about everything, right?

     

    Originally posted by Arglebargle   Who does that remind me of?

     

    The talk is impressive, but if they can get this out 'in early 2015'  without significant, game breaking glitches, it will be miraculous.   Because talk is lots cheaper, and doesn't have to show up in the real world.....

     

    who does that remind you of, a developer who works on a FPS? I can´t wait for the revelation who you meant.

    It will be miraculous and we will all see it next week on PAX Australia anyway. Maybe wait with bashing before you seen it

  • KuinnKuinn Member UncommonPosts: 2,072
    Originally posted by PioneerStew

    Not convinced by this; better to do one thing well than two things poorly.  

    I am concerned by the shifting goals on this game, I wish they would stop expanding the budget, the programme and the content, create some firm targets and hit them.  

     

    I'm tired of games and mmorpgs that do only one thing well. I want a game that I play a long time, so it absolutely must have many ways to play it.

     

    I'd rather take a failure with grand goals than a well made game that has narrow "end game" that I get bored of in a month or two, because it will be just another game, quickly forgotten. At least there's a chance for Star Citizen to become something else, and not just yet another one monther.

  • hfztthfztt Member RarePosts: 1,392
    Originally posted by DocBrody

    who does that remind you of, a developer who works on a FPS? I can´t wait for the revelation who you meant.

    I am not sure what he was thinking of, but I am thinking CCP's Incarna and DUST. One failed completely the other well... The jury is still out on that one.

    Personally I am not sure how they expect to get, what is it now, 60M?, to cover the development cost of an AAA space shooter, an AAA fps and an AAA MMO. That is the real trick they have to pull off.

  • grndzrogrndzro Member UncommonPosts: 1,156
    Originally posted by hfztt
    Originally posted by DocBrody

    who does that remind you of, a developer who works on a FPS? I can´t wait for the revelation who you meant.

    I am not sure what he was thinking of, but I am thinking CCP's Incarna and DUST. One failed completely the other well... The jury is still out on that one.

    Personally I am not sure how they expect to get, what is it now, 60M?, to cover the development cost of an AAA space shooter, an AAA fps and an AAA MMO. That is the real trick they have to pull off.

    Well when we have $500M games and $300M advertising budgets the $60M generated so far should go pretty far.

    I can imagine as the FPS portion shapes up we will see backer goals with FPS elements. Could pull in a whole new revenue stream from FPS peeps.

  • JonBonJawaJonBonJawa Member UncommonPosts: 489
    Originally posted by grndzro

    I can imagine as the FPS portion shapes up we will see backer goals with FPS elements. Could pull in a whole new revenue stream from FPS peeps.

    good idea with the FPS backers goals, although there´s not really much to add---

    all the FPS mechanics stretch goals were reached back during the original campaign at 6 Million. We´ve known about the planned FPS elements for almost two years let´s see what they show us at the Aussie PAX next week.------

    Should bring in a few more millions when the Battlefield/COD/Destiny players see what´s coming in Star Citizen.

    Let´s hope the project reaches the 100 million mark as soon as possible, more budget more content, plus having a bit of a future expansion reserve is always good.

  • screecwescreecwe Member UncommonPosts: 127
    Originally posted by PioneerStew

    Not convinced by this; better to do one thing well than two things poorly.  

    I am concerned by the shifting goals on this game, I wish they would stop expanding the budget, the programme and the content, create some firm targets and hit them.  

     

    Shifting goals? An FPS component was a core facet of the game from the very beginning. 

    As for them hitting goals first...well, they are. Unless you haven't noticed they've released the Hangar module, the Dog Fighting Module, the Racing add on, and multiple updates to each. They're not doing linear development. They're doing parallel development. Which means you're going to have different components hitting their goals concurrently. This was the plan from the very beginning.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,229

    @ DocBrody : thanks a lot for  the summary !

     

    my personal favorite was the "Hide in a box and take over the scavenger ship" anecdote ... Bond goes Space ;-)

     

    Have fun

  • sgelsgel Member EpicPosts: 2,197
    Originally posted by Erillion

    @ DocBrody : thanks a lot for  the summary !

     

    my personal favorite was the "Hide in a box and take over the scavenger ship" anecdote ... Bond goes Space ;-)

    I don't think it was an anecdote. He was describing a possible (though quite impractical) scenario.

    ..Cake..

  • grndzrogrndzro Member UncommonPosts: 1,156
    Originally posted by screecwe
    Originally posted by PioneerStew

    Not convinced by this; better to do one thing well than two things poorly.  

    I am concerned by the shifting goals on this game, I wish they would stop expanding the budget, the programme and the content, create some firm targets and hit them.  

     

    Shifting goals? An FPS component was a core facet of the game from the very beginning. 

    As for them hitting goals first...well, they are. Unless you haven't noticed they've released the Hangar module, the Dog Fighting Module, the Racing add on, and multiple updates to each. They're not doing linear development. They're doing parallel development. Which means you're going to have different components hitting their goals concurrently. This was the plan from the very beginning.

    No....FPS was never in the original KS. Neither was migrating to Cryengine next.

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen

  • ManganeezManganeez Member Posts: 6
    Originally posted by grndzro
    No....FPS was never in the original KS. Neither was migrating to Cryengine next.

    Sorry, my friend, but you are wrong. First, as an aside, you can't call it the "original KS" because CIG was crowdfunding via their own website prior to the Kickstarter. They enlisted KS's help only because the crowd's response was so overwhelming that their web servers started melting. The KS took off some pressure and gave them time to upgrade their server farm. By the time it ended, they were ready to continue with the funding strictly through their own site and have done so ever since.

    On to the topic of FPS: while it's true that the main KS page didn't go into enough detail to mention FPS on the main page, it is referred to in some of the updates, though I was able to find even earlier references elsewhere. The earliest I could find in two minutes was on October 22, 2012 in this specific question about it during an AMA on Reddit (admittedly, this is four days into the KS, but it's pretty clear that this was already the plan). "Shipboard FPS" is further explicitly listed as one of the modules a couple of weeks later in the $3M Goal announcement on November 8, 2012 (still well before the KS ended). I'm actually pretty sure there were mentions predating that AMA in regard to FPS being one of the reasons for selecting CryEngine in the first place since they get most of the FPS infrastructure for free, but my Google Fu is failing me (also, duh, why wouldn't you?).

    Regarding CryEngine Next, CR had said from the beginning that they are targeting high-end systems of "two years from now". It seems unlikely that he intended to target high-end systems using a two-year old engine, so he was probably already planning to keep up with CryEngine.

    That said, you might point out that we're now talking about a release three years later instead of two - and you'd be right. ;) CIG got far more money than expected, and that did let them expand the scope of their content. In that sense, there can be no argument to your larger point about scope creep. But: does that one extra year (or maybe a little more :D) stretch the bounds of reason for the development time of a AAA game? I would say no, and I'm glad to wait that much longer for the massively better game they now have the budget to produce. That opinion is for you to decide for yourself, but it's hard to see judging that too harshly as a particularly reasonable one.

  • william0532william0532 Member Posts: 251
    Originally posted by grndzro
    Originally posted by screecwe
    Originally posted by PioneerStew

    Not convinced by this; better to do one thing well than two things poorly.  

    I am concerned by the shifting goals on this game, I wish they would stop expanding the budget, the programme and the content, create some firm targets and hit them.  

     

    Shifting goals? An FPS component was a core facet of the game from the very beginning. 

    As for them hitting goals first...well, they are. Unless you haven't noticed they've released the Hangar module, the Dog Fighting Module, the Racing add on, and multiple updates to each. They're not doing linear development. They're doing parallel development. Which means you're going to have different components hitting their goals concurrently. This was the plan from the very beginning.

    No....FPS was never in the original KS. Neither was migrating to Cryengine next.

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen

    Boarding others ships was unlocked at 3.5 million. 4 million they unlocked melee weapons.  This was all before the Kickstarter closed. Just can't read it, because the screen shot they posted of the stretch goals for Kickstarters page has all the goals till 5 million closed so it didn't take up a ton of pages.

    It was there, most new about it.

    Not sure what people thought boarding, guns and melee weapons was going to entail if not for fps mechanics.

  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,497
    Originally posted by Manganeez
    Originally posted by grndzro
    No....FPS was never in the original KS. Neither was migrating to Cryengine next.

    Sorry, my friend, but you are wrong. First, as an aside, you can't call it the "original KS" because CIG was crowdfunding via their own website prior to the Kickstarter. They enlisted KS's help only because the crowd's response became so overwhelming that their web servers started melting. The KS took off some pressure and gave them time to upgrade their server farm. By the time it ended, they were ready to continue with the funding strictly through their own site and have done so every since.

    CIG did not run a server farm, they probably had a couple of servers they had to upgrade. Totally different to what is known as a server farm, think Facebook, Google etc

    They used Kickstarter to reach a wider audience which resulted in needing to upgrade due the increased traffic, it wasn't that popular prior to the KS and certainly wasn't a tide over.

  • JonBonJawaJonBonJawa Member UncommonPosts: 489
    Originally posted by Manganeez
    Originally posted by grndzro
    No....FPS was never in the original KS. Neither was migrating to Cryengine next.

    Sorry, my friend, but you are wrong.

     

    correct. I´m a first month of the campaign backer, even got a golden ticket and FPS ship boarding was one of the earliest infos, an early stretch goal around the 5-6 million mark before the original campaign even closed.

    If that wasn´t clear from the beginning, the whole KS video had lots of walking around with avatars, why would they waste dev time on avatars if there wouldn´t be some sort of FPS?

    Also Cryengine was day 1 info, it was the engine the original prototype was built in FFS... why should they NOT take the engine updates from Crytech? Upgrading an engine is somehow "bad" or what? Besides updating is not "migrating" to another engine.. /rolleyes

     

  • ManganeezManganeez Member Posts: 6
    Originally posted by rpmcmurphy
    CIG did not run a server farm, they probably had a couple of servers they had to upgrade. Totally different to what is known as a server farm, think Facebook, Google etc

    I didn't mean to imply that they had a large installation. I do think it's a little disingenuous to attempt to focus on a choice-of-words issue that really has nothing to do with the point, though.

    Originally posted by rpmcmurphy
    They used Kickstarter to reach a wider audience which resulted in needing to upgrade due the increased traffic, it wasn't that popular prior to the KS and certainly wasn't a tide over.

    I typed up a full response to this with links proving how wrong you are, but it gets flagged as spam when I try to post it (too many links, I suppose). Very frustrating. Anyway. I'm going to remove (nearly) all of the links and include it below. Nearly all of the links are to posts on robertsspaceindustries-dot-com - just go back to the noted dates and you can find them.

    ============================================

    It's apparent that either you weren't there or have forgotten what really happened. Fortunately, the facts are well documented:

    1. October 10, 2012: Crowdfunding launched on robertsspaceindustries.com.
    2. October 12: CR posts about the huge, unexpected load crashing their servers, including that both the crowdfunding and the community sites have been down for 30 hours, and they are only just beginning to get things back online. No mention of KS yet.
    3. October 14: CR follows up that the crowdfunding site is finally back online. Still no mention of KS.
    4. October 18: CR posts again, describes continued concerns with the crowdfunding site, ongoing efforts to improve user experience and performance. Explains that KS has offered to help out, and CIG is taking them up on it. KS launches immediately. CR also announces that they'd hit $1M. This is prior to KS, mind you, despite the extreme difficulty of pledging (at the time, there were comments from people who would hit the Submit button and let it spin for a very long time before receiving a response - even hours, if some comments are to be believed). They most certainly did not have a lack-of-awareness problem as you contend.
    5. October 19: CR follows up regarding the first day of KS. A big day, but not as big as the first day on CIG's crowdfunding site had been. That contradicts your idea that KS greatly increased the audience. Still, KS did outpace CIG's site 2-to-1 that day, but I would suggest the possibility that this is a result of the fact that the KS site, you know, works.
    6. October 25: CR announces that the combined crowdfunding from both sites hit $2M. Kicktraq shows that KS's share at that point was about $600K, so we can surmise that CIG's site's share during that time (since the $1M on the 18th) was about $400k, which seems perfectly respectable to me.
    7. November 8: CR announces that KS's share has hit $1M and that the combined total has hit $3M. Some quick combinatorial calculus indicates that the portion from CIG's site is $2M. Minus the $1M they had before starting the KS, that means both sites have brought in $1M each during the KS period so far. A dead heat hardly suggests that KS is where all the attention is coming from.
    8. November 19: KS ends. Combined total (from a little earlier in the day) is $5.5M, while we know that KS's share was $2.13M of that. In a whole month, KS only doubled what CIG's site had done in its first week prior to KS, and you claim it wasn't popular prior to KS? Even during the KS, CIG's site earned $2.37M against KS's $2.13M (probably a few people were driven to CIG's site from the KS, but I'd submit that that number was negligible enough so as not to greatly skew the results).

    All of the above disproves several assertions you made in your sentence:

    • You said that the crowdfunding wasn't popular prior to KS. Wrong. The crowdfunding rate was higher in the first week prior to KS than KS's final rate. See especially items 4 and 8. Also see many of the articles in the search in the next bullet, many of which make reference to how high-profile SC already was prior to the KS.
    • You said that CIG's server problems resulted from the sudden popularity due to KS. Also wrong. Items 1-4 describe all of those problems before the KS. Furthermore, the problems actually never appeared again after the beginning of the KS (or at least not to an extent worth CR posting about it - I can't be positive). The stability was presumably due to a combination of the upgrades CIG had done and the decreased load resulting from shunting much of it over to KS. The fact was also covered by the media: try this Google search (hopefully I can get one link through).
    • You said that the KS "certainly wasn't a tide over". I'd have to say wrong once more. Again, items 1-4: it was explicitly done as a stopgap due to the server overloads. Item 8: CIG's site still did a higher rate during the KS. Plus CIG went on to get their server ducks in a row and has brought in ten times as much since the KS ended. It's the very definition of a tide over.

    Anyways, sorry I kinda went overboard here. Just a little annoyed with unwarranted dismissiveness. I know the facts.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,229
    Originally posted by Manganeez

    Anyways, sorry I kinda went overboard here.

    Thanks ... interesting summary !

    Have fun

  • CaldrinCaldrin Member UncommonPosts: 4,505

    I like the idea of what tey are trying to do just hope they can pull it all togeather :)

     

  • BrenelaelBrenelael Member UncommonPosts: 3,821

    Well all of you are wrong about why they started the Kickstarter... The Kickstarter was used because a very large portion of people on the RSI website were asking how they could pledge using Paypal or Amazon. The RSI site could take neither of these payment options at the time so Chris started the Kickstarter to allow people more choices in payment options since Kickstarter already had these in place.  Just an FYI.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • Instigator-JonesInstigator-Jones Member UncommonPosts: 530
    "Chris started the Kickstarter to allow people more choices in payment options since Kickstarter already had these in place. Just an FYI."
    Source please.
    Even if it is true, it sounds pretty asinine. It's not THAT hard to set up a PayPal account/donation system.
    Either way you look at it, the continual shift in focus AWAY from the game and towards payment/purchase/donation options is getting pretty old.
  • NitthNitth Member UncommonPosts: 3,904

    Have they talked about if you can hijack one of those $2000 ships?

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • screecwescreecwe Member UncommonPosts: 127
    Originally posted by Nitth

    Have they talked about if you can hijack one of those $2000 ships?

     

    You can hijack any ship that has more than one crewmember. There might be ways to hijack single-crewmember ships, but I'm not up to date on that. Any ship that is hijacked gets replaced via ship insurance(if you have it).

  • RusqueRusque Member RarePosts: 2,785
    This game sounds so good. It is starting to sound too good to be true, though, I'd very much like it to be true so I can play it, because I want.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,229
    Originally posted by Nitth

    Have they talked about if you can hijack one of those $2000 ships?

    Yes.

    -->

    "Q - Can you provide an example of the kind of gameplay experience you're looking for? Maybe a description of what an encounter between two players might be like in terms of lethality, weapons used, moves used, length of play, etc?


    A - there are so many. lets just pull one randomly from the sky.
    A Persistent Universe experience. I'm a stealthy, solo player. I find a wrecked ship, i know scavengers will be around soon. I find a crate and put myself in it. I let the scavengers take the crate and put me in their ship. When i'm on their ship, some time later, i get out of the crate. Very quietly, i rummage around and find some goodies i like. I steal those...
    now i can either - A) Jump out the airlock and call a ride or B) go to their engine room and self destruct their ship or C) quietly hunt and execute the entire staff and take their ship.... or Z) they could have scanned the crate properly before loading it, blasted it with their ship and me with it...."

     

    Have fun

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