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Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen

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  • NiklaczNiklacz Member Posts: 6


    Originally posted by Samadhixxx

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Kyleran

     
    The era of 3 or 4 folks working part time to deliver a full fledged working game is long past, MMO's are serious business and they require the proper funding and support to deliver with sufficient features and quality that the market has come to demand. I can't think of any modern MMO that has delivered successfully on a shoe string, even titles such as MO and DFO had much more funding than most kickstarter MMO campaigns do, and they continue to struggle for it. I supported CU, but still have my doubts regarding its success changes though they did scrape up about  $5M so perhaps with their limited scope it will be possible. SC of course has $58M, now there's a title that has a strong chance of success, not many other do, IMO at least.  
    SC is an exception, and they have more than just a horrible website. I think they have a good chance of putting out a decent game (with $58M, a decent dev should be able to do that). However, personally i am not going to spend a dime unless there is actually a game. If a game can whip up $58M on KS, it does not need my dime. If it cannot whip up anything, then i am not risking even a cent. Either way, there is no point for me to KS anything.  
    SC and the other old-school games have well made websites. Pantheon has a horrible site by many of the devs admissions errors all over, and it looked sloppily made. When it was updated by Kyndread it looks better, but he cannot fix all the bugs etc. Pantheon at this point has about 4 or 5 devout members of their community. Many of the devs who have been around for a long time are doing it as a secondary job to get "paid," although anyone who follows the game knows that will not happen. The game will not get funding due to it's history with or without Sparkling. Brad with all his chitchat refuses to face the truth... his dream died when the money disappeared. It does not matter why it disappeared. IT could have been a poor business decision (do you want that person managing your investment,) ot it coulf have been fraud (I definately do not want that person managing my investment. ) I am not going to say I know why, it does not matter. Sadly I was invested on his website on day 1...... so I was stuck in the mess... I wanted to look for the best in everything, but instead usually found more things I should have been questioning.
     


    Samadhixxx, you said you are involved in the development of Pantheon, did you happen to see any big names come visit you guys in the studio, like Richard Garriot? Was he a decent guy, as in, did he have any cool stories to tell from the eighties?
    I had difficulties running Vanguard on my old computer, but my current one performs nicely on Rift, do you as the developer expect Pantheon to run fine aswell? Or to put it differently, what are your target specs?
    Finally i'd like to day thanks, you always post with such a passion that it's contagious, i bet you have an awesome time over there at the Visions company, tell your folks if you ever come to Europe to come visit me here in Ljubljana.
    Good luck everybody!

  • SamadhixxxSamadhixxx Member Posts: 12
    Originally posted by Niklacz

     


    Originally posted by Samadhixxx

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Kyleran

     
    The era of 3 or 4 folks working part time to deliver a full fledged working game is long past, MMO's are serious business and they require the proper funding and support to deliver with sufficient features and quality that the market has come to demand. I can't think of any modern MMO that has delivered successfully on a shoe string, even titles such as MO and DFO had much more funding than most kickstarter MMO campaigns do, and they continue to struggle for it. I supported CU, but still have my doubts regarding its success changes though they did scrape up about  $5M so perhaps with their limited scope it will be possible. SC of course has $58M, now there's a title that has a strong chance of success, not many other do, IMO at least.  
    SC is an exception, and they have more than just a horrible website. I think they have a good chance of putting out a decent game (with $58M, a decent dev should be able to do that). However, personally i am not going to spend a dime unless there is actually a game. If a game can whip up $58M on KS, it does not need my dime. If it cannot whip up anything, then i am not risking even a cent. Either way, there is no point for me to KS anything.  
    SC and the other old-school games have well made websites. Pantheon has a horrible site by many of the devs admissions errors all over, and it looked sloppily made. When it was updated by Kyndread it looks better, but he cannot fix all the bugs etc. Pantheon at this point has about 4 or 5 devout members of their community. Many of the devs who have been around for a long time are doing it as a secondary job to get "paid," although anyone who follows the game knows that will not happen. The game will not get funding due to it's history with or without Sparkling. Brad with all his chitchat refuses to face the truth... his dream died when the money disappeared. It does not matter why it disappeared. IT could have been a poor business decision (do you want that person managing your investment,) ot it coulf have been fraud (I definately do not want that person managing my investment. ) I am not going to say I know why, it does not matter. Sadly I was invested on his website on day 1...... so I was stuck in the mess... I wanted to look for the best in everything, but instead usually found more things I should have been questioning.
     

     


    Samadhixxx, you said you are involved in the development of Pantheon, did you happen to see any big names come visit you guys in the studio, like Richard Garriot? Was he a decent guy, as in, did he have any cool stories to tell from the eighties?
    I had difficulties running Vanguard on my old computer, but my current one performs nicely on Rift, do you as the developer expect Pantheon to run fine aswell? Or to put it differently, what are your target specs?
    Finally i'd like to day thanks, you always post with such a passion that it's contagious, i bet you have an awesome time over there at the Visions company, tell your folks if you ever come to Europe to come visit me here in Ljubljana.
    Good luck everybody!

    I do not work for them anymore. Brad is the only official employee of Visionary Realms. They have no local office unless you consider Brad's home the office. No I have not met Richard Garriot. I have played Ultima Online as well as Everquest though. Both held my interest in different ways.

    I did not have difficulties running Vanguard unless I tried at Max settings. I quit when most of my guild had quit for the reasons you had. Seeing the empty zones was depressing. I am not here to put blame on Brad for things I have not seen with my own eyes. I know some want to claim he did drugs the whole time the game was made or how he fired his whole team at Sony. I was not there, I know that the firing happened, but many people draw conclusions without considering the underlying details. As to the drug accusations some people just want to point fingers and make things up when there may be nothing there. He may have had a history, does that mean he is doing anything now? No.

    I do know that Brad has been often hard to reach and absent on Pantheon. He often promised to be there for the community pop up for a bit then leave for another month, pop in one day rinse and repeat. He needs to realize he needs to be involved with them. They are talking now, but from what I hear most of the talk is Joppa, Radash., and MadMojo (a new member).

    They talk about making this game for free... but since May they have practically replaced half of the team once over. How do you make a quality game replacing people so much so fast?

    I would say it was interesting, I HAD a passion for the game in its original vision given to us in the kickstarter. What it is now is very different.

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen

    Compare that to what the game is now.

    Thank you for the invite, however I am not a member of the "team" anymore.

    -Nirrtix

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by Samadhixxx
     

    I do not work for them anymore. Brad is the only official employee of Visionary Realms. They have no local office unless you consider Brad's home the office. No I have not met Richard Garriot. I have played Ultima Online as well as Everquest though. Both held my interest in different ways.

    I did not have difficulties running Vanguard unless I tried at Max settings. I quit when most of my guild had quit for the reasons you had. Seeing the empty zones was depressing. I am not here to put blame on Brad for things I have not seen with my own eyes. I know some want to claim he did drugs the whole time the game was made or how he fired his whole team at Sony. I was not there, I know that the firing happened, but many people draw conclusions without considering the underlying details. As to the drug accusations some people just want to point fingers and make things up when there may be nothing there. He may have had a history, does that mean he is doing anything now? No.

    I do know that Brad has been often hard to reach and absent on Pantheon. He often promised to be there for the community pop up for a bit then leave for another month, pop in one day rinse and repeat. He needs to realize he needs to be involved with them. They are talking now, but from what I hear most of the talk is Joppa, Radash., and MadMojo (a new member).

    They talk about making this game for free... but since May they have practically replaced half of the team once over. How do you make a quality game replacing people so much so fast?

    I would say it was interesting, I HAD a passion for the game in its original vision given to us in the kickstarter. What it is now is very different.

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen

    Compare that to what the game is now.

    Thank you for the invite, however I am not a member of the "team" anymore.

    -Nirrtix

    I am glad you are out. This kind of amateur effort probably result in nothing but a waste of time. There is so much entertainment out there that it is really not that easy to get enough people to care.

  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,033
    I honestly don't care one way or another.  But,  I imagine this game will launch when we get peace in the middle east.
  • WaterlilyWaterlily Member UncommonPosts: 3,105

    Would love EQ in a Vanguard setting.

    I loved Vanguard, it was a lot like EQ, but it has a sense of world, which EQ lost  over time. EQ had these massive zones during Kunark like Karana. the further you go in expansion the more loss of world there was. I love instances too, but I slightly love massive open zones more.

    Vanguard had it both, massive open world, and massive dungones, it just didn't have the fun element EQ had, the combat in vanguard was too hectic and too much button mashing I felt.

     

     

    Regarding the actual videos, the graphics look often worse than those of EQ1. That red glowing ball reminded me of the EQ1 gatekeeper in brell's temple. It looked better in EQ1. So .. I don't know if they have the budget or people to upgrade the graphics.

  • UOloverUOlover Member UncommonPosts: 339
    I am interested in one thing, the spiritual successor of EQ1. The video looks good for a volunteer team with no money and something that's no where near even an Alpha stage. Anything else is noise not worth my time.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by MrMelGibson
    I honestly don't care one way or another.  But,  I imagine this game will launch when we get peace in the middle east.

    nah .. I think we may have to wait till the heat death of the universe to see that happen.

  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,698

    I think some people are underestimating how much money they will get once they start offering early access. Will it be 10+ million? Not likely but several hundred thousand or more is definitely in the realm of possibility. Then factor in another kickstarter and then maybe putting early access on Steam.

    There is still a chance for them to get a good amount of funding. They just need to last long enough to get to that early access point.

  • AvarixAvarix Member RarePosts: 665

    This thread is a mess. From the original post which felt like a paid advertisement, to the CEO responding to personal attacks, and then to the current/previous devs/mods responding on bad working conditions...

     

    Nothing good will come from this.

  • LauraFrostLauraFrost Member Posts: 95

     

    Didn't Brad ask people to donate money for "website hosting expenses" then we found out their webhosting was actually free?

    Didn't Brad launch the arguably most unprofessional Kickstarter ever created with a $800,000 goal (how can you fund an MMO development with this amount of money anyway?) then they failed miserably due to the fact they had NOTHING to show us?

    Didn't Brad take a big chunk of his website's donation as an "upfront payment" for his "work".

    Didn't Brad lose his team after that notorious event? then substituted them with creepy-folks, unprofessional, the kind of people you find on the Jerry Springer show? (a sample of them post here). The kind of folks I wouldn't even hire to flip burgers?

    If this whole thing is not a scam, and actually a serious attempt from Brad to create an MMORPG... I really feel sorry for this man.

     

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,892
    Originally posted by SlyLoK

    I think some people are underestimating how much money they will get once they start offering early access. Will it be 10+ million? Not likely but several hundred thousand or more is definitely in the realm of possibility. Then factor in another kickstarter and then maybe putting early access on Steam.

    There is still a chance for them to get a good amount of funding. They just need to last long enough to get to that early access point.

    That's only true if they can show people something they can believe in. There are many people who want to believe in Brad and his success, but they need something impressive to justify their belief and self-delusion. So far Brad has consistently failed to deliver that something.

     
  • DelCabonDelCabon Member UncommonPosts: 258

    Gotta love Pantheon posts. The drama, the suspense, the protagonists and antagonists, tossed with a few naughty trolls and some random npc's makes for great entertainment all on its own. I always belly up with a bowl of buttered popcorn for an enjoyable few min while Netflix loads up.

    As to the OP, I have to say the music score kept me watching much longer than I anticipated. This game seems to have made a lot more progress.

    With that said, EQ1 ranks as my 2nd favorite game after Asherons Call, followed by DAOC, LOTRO and Vanguard (a year after its stupefying  release).

    Love him or hate him, I give Brad props for being a visionary in the MMO world. Clearly EQ1 was a ground breaking game and he deserves credit for being an integral part of that team.

    Based on Brads vision for Pantheon I can unequivocally say that this would be a game I would pay for if it was ever completed during my lifetime. Of course I wont hold my breath, but I can't help but hope he somehow pulls it off. "Cheers" to the effort!

    Also I would never pay for any product that features a person(s) who preach HATE and/or EXCLUSION of any kind.  That was my biggest beef with this game until now. Good to see Pantheon shares this view.

    Del Cabon
    A US Army ('Just Cause') Vet and MMORPG Native formerly of Trinsic, Norath and Dereth. Currently playing LOTRO. 

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  • LauraFrostLauraFrost Member Posts: 95
    Originally posted by DelCabon

    Love him or hate him, I give Brad props for being a visionary in the MMO world. Clearly EQ1 was a ground breaking game and he deserves credit for being an integral part of that team.

    I was like you, thinking that EverQuest was BRAD! BRAD!

    But believe it or not, EQ was created by a team and not only by Brad.

    All what Brad did was to tell that team to copy-paste a MUD game mechanic into a 3D client. It was so copy-pasted that the creators of the MUD were compensated by SOE just so they won't file a suit. That's a fact btw.

    When I watched Brad's video on his kickstarter especially when he talked about his ideas of combat mechanics I shivered with disgust when he suggested a AoE queues (like in Wild Star game, they are the flavor of the month crap now) and then I realized maybe just maybe not all what I enjoyed about EQ were his ideas/influence.

    I also remember when he wrote in his blog (his post-mortem) that one of his mistakes was assembling an ALL STAR team but the one of the things he talks about in his Kickstarter video was... having an All Star team. LOL!

    Saying all this I really wish him all the best (if he's sincere, I really have doubts). If he can give us an EQ-like experience I will definitely buy his game. But donating/backing up his project at this time? No dice, I'm not that stupid. :p

     

     

     

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  • ApraxisApraxis Member UncommonPosts: 1,518
    Originally posted by blueturtle13
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    You can't make a MMORPG for 600k....so don't get your hopes up.

        Bioware and Lucas Arts proved you can't make one for $150-$200 million. ESO cost $200 million so that does not really matter.

        One of the reasons I posted this was in the hopes of people seeing it and perhaps supporting a game like this. I just discovered it through Reddit of all places. lol Just trying to bring attention to a game that needs those who 'say' they want a game like this to step up and support it. I just did. ;)

    It's ok for bringing it on the table.. however there are just not really enough people want a game like that.. or say anything along that line.. just a few EQ1 hardcore fans with a very specific mindset(no pvp, heavy focus on pve(but just a specific one), long leveling, hard death penality, and whatever the like).. but Vanguard already proved that those players are a rather tiny market.

    Well.. maybe it will become a small indy game with a small, but supportive fanbase and can substain their game with that smaller playerbase in mind.. vanguard was just aimed to high(production value, required return of investment)... but i somewhat doubt it.. because most of those players expect also up to date graphics, animations and so on(of course not all, but most).

    We will see how it turns out in the end. But it's not my cup of tea anyway. But a wish you the very best for your dream game.

  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,698
    Originally posted by Vrika
    Originally posted by SlyLoK

    I think some people are underestimating how much money they will get once they start offering early access. Will it be 10+ million? Not likely but several hundred thousand or more is definitely in the realm of possibility. Then factor in another kickstarter and then maybe putting early access on Steam.

    There is still a chance for them to get a good amount of funding. They just need to last long enough to get to that early access point.

    That's only true if they can show people something they can believe in. There are many people who want to believe in Brad and his success, but they need something impressive to justify their belief and self-delusion. So far Brad has consistently failed to deliver that something.

    I have yet gave any money toward Pantheon but what they have been able to do so far with little funding is pretty impressive I think. It may take another 6 months for them to get to an early access point so the only real issue is them lasting long enough to get there.

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen Member UncommonPosts: 2,483
    I like the idea of Pantheon, and would try it out upon completion, but after how the Kickstarter was horribly presented, I wouldn't give a dime until the game is complete. It wasn't presented well, looked like it was thrown together in a day, and had very little presented to give anyone confidence in the project.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by Ice-Queen
    I like the idea of Pantheon, and would try it out upon completion, but after how the Kickstarter was horribly presented, I wouldn't give a dime until the game is complete. It wasn't presented well, looked like it was thrown together in a day, and had very little presented to give anyone confidence in the project.

    The entertainment value in this "game" is more in following the train wreck, than actually playing the game.

  • ZapzapZapzap Member UncommonPosts: 224
    Originally posted by Aradune
     

    These lies really need to stop.  I paid myself and my team.  We worked from Sept. 2013 to April of 2014, when there was a dispute over how much I was paid.  You can debate all you want about whether I was paid 'too much' for that period, but this 'the team wasn't paid anything' is misinformation at best.   Where do you think the rest of the money raised went?  98% to the team and probably 2% to software licenses, etc.  

    The majority of the team left over this dispute.  They left with the majority of the crowdfunded money.  I am still here, working 8-12 hour days with my new team, and have made less then $1k. since April.  I have sold a LOT of personal items and am currently selling a rental property so I can pay the bills while I and the new team poor our hears and souls into the game.

    So that's now over a year I've worked on this project, and I'm a criminal because I've been paid ~$46k? And the rest of the ~$147k that went to the old team -- they haven't touched the game since April.  What should get your more upset?  Who walked with their portion of the money and who stayed?

    All I know is that I've learned a lot about team building, working with volunteer teams, and working remotely.  The result is this new team is not only very talented but incredibly committed and working their butts off.  When crowdfunding does come in, I give it to the team members who work crazy hours and who don't have day jobs.  And of course, there's software and hardware that needs to be paid for.

    But is there proof or is the game just vaporware?

    We try to release a movie every 1-2 months showing measurable forward progress, with screenshots more frequently.  Take a look at the August movie and compare it to the one we just released.  This game is being made and it's coming together relatively quickly.  Do we still need more funding than crowdsourcing to finish it?  Preferably yes.  And we hope that these movies mitigate risk for the potential investor and that funding will come 'soon'.  In the meantime, we continue to move this game forward and at the same time keep the community informed with our progress via these movies and screenshots.

    Anyway, I don't usually participate in these threads, but the 'criminal' this, and the 'team didn't get paid' that just has to be addressed.  And so I'm addressing it:  it's a bunch of crap.  That said, despite the misinformation and negativity, the team and I are tenacious.  I'm not going anywhere, that's for sure.  Come hell or high water, Pantheon will be finished.

    -Brad

    I am not going to go into the merits of what is fair or what is unfair or whether Brad is a good or bad guy  Rather I want to say thank you for pouring your heart and soul into this game.  A game that many of us desperately need and want.

    Many of us veteran MMO players who grew up with EQ believe that the MMO genre has gone off track and only makes games for those with low attention spans who want dumbed down simple gameplay with constant excitement.  There are no options for veteran players who want a game with thought, tactics and complicated group and team play.

    I have very strong doubts that you can pull this off Brad.  But I gave you money because as MMO fan I believe we have a duty to support projects like this.  Whether one likes Brad or not we need games like this.  The MMO genre is dying if not dead.  A game like this can bring back the genre for many of us that have been left behind by the modern ADHD games made for those lacking the patience to play a MMO.

    Thank you Brad for EQ, for Vanguard and for once again trying to attempt to save the genre once again.

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  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,802
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Ice-Queen
    I like the idea of Pantheon, and would try it out upon completion, but after how the Kickstarter was horribly presented, I wouldn't give a dime until the game is complete. It wasn't presented well, looked like it was thrown together in a day, and had very little presented to give anyone confidence in the project.

    The entertainment value in this "game" is more in following the train wreck, than actually playing the game.

    It's true - each message made me laugh big time.

     

    Kickstarter failing - start a donation system so people can't get their money back

    The devs running away cause they didn't get paid - news of Brad paying himself 3 months in advance (and generously)

    Brad hiring a religious fanatic woman who destroys the lore and concepts of the game which the fans loved while in her free time she makes use of her freedom of speech to insult homosexual people.

     

    Feels like a MMO comedy show on the internet.

    Stay tuned for the next episode.

    Harbinger of Fools
  • LauraFrostLauraFrost Member Posts: 95

     

    The problem with this project is that it's being used now by the anti-EQ-like MMORPG folks. They point fingers and say "See, no one likes a game like EverQuest because otherwise Pantheon would have succeeded."

     

    Brad and his unprofessional attempt ruined it for all of us.

    I was always a devout defender of Brad and his "vision", read my history in this forum. But God damn this man is so horrible and clueless. I am NOT certain if what he did was a scam or not. I am sincere about this. I honestly I can't tell if he's sincere about making a game or he's just stealing money from fools.

     

    This game will NEVER see the day of light. We're talking MMO here, not a single player game. This team Brad assembled of your average American Christian family can conduct a family picnic sure but an MMORPG? I highly doubt it.

     

    Big huge studios failed to deliver MMORPGs and you guys think Brad can make one with college students, freaks and weirdos? Working "pro-bono". No investor will spend money on this disaster.

     

    However, if a miracle happen and cows started flying, unicorns served martinis to random strangers and this game got released... I would gladly buy it and play it because it sounds like something I want to play (please, scratch the pro-christian lore otherwise I might think twice before buying).

     

     

  • winterwinter Member UncommonPosts: 2,281
    Originally posted by blueturtle13
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    You can't make a MMORPG for 600k....so don't get your hopes up.

        Bioware and Lucas Arts proved you can't make one for $150-$200 million. ESO cost $200 million so that does not really matter.

        One of the reasons I posted this was in the hopes of people seeing it and perhaps supporting a game like this. I just discovered it through Reddit of all places. lol Just trying to bring attention to a game that needs those who 'say' they want a game like this to step up and support it. I just did. ;)

    People that supported this project post kickstarter got conned all the money went to back pay for Brad and the crew that then quite due to Brads underhanded plundering of project resources. Support Brad as you will while his new all volunteer crew tries to get things working but please don't try and con others into supporting Brad he can do that well enough himself.

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