Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

I like the premise of EVE, but...

mark2123mark2123 Member UncommonPosts: 450

I like the idea of a space MMO as it's different from the mainstream.  I've rolled a few charaters in EVE but I keep coming up with the same problem, although people keep telling me it's not how it is.

I find the game to be very in-depth and complex, which is great and I iike that type of thing, but, boy does it take forever to achieve anything unless you are hardcore.  I've rarely met few players who aren't online every waking minute and they naturally seem to get the most out of the game, but it's not very 'casual friendly', in my opinion.

People tell you it is 'casual friendly', because you character develops skill points whilst you are offline.  I'd say that's a bi-product of being offline as you can't exactly enjoy the game whilst you aren't playing it.  You can't take advantage of those skill points unless you play, and you really do need to play a lot in order to make progress with your goals.

To enjoy the game and actually achieve anything, you can't exactly log-in for 30-60 minutes at a time.  It's an MMO that if you try to play casually, then there's little point in playing, as you can't achieve much in pockets.  Even a jump of 5-10 systems has eaten up a fair bit of your play-time if you want to be casual.  Yes, you can log in for 60 minutes, but you'll log off and be asking yourself "What the hell did I achieve there?"

As I said, I like the idea of the game, but any corps I've been in are active (as they should be) and you can't feel part of it unless you can play almost every night/day for hours on end. Because it's sandbox, you can be totally out of the loop if you don't play for 2-3 days.  

If there was some way to speed up some of the game's mechanics, like the warping or the traveling for half an hour to collect some parts etc so that more could be done in the time available to play it, I wonder if it could attract get more players.

As a casual with limited time, I always end up cancelling my sub becauseI realise that I could play for 4-5 hours a week and get nowhere, so I may as well play a different game.

This is not a troll post or a whine, I actually do thing the game is very good and very well made, but I just wish I could get more done for my time, in order that I would consider it worth my while playing.

«1

Comments

  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593

    Yep this is a common "problem" with Eve. But it is not really a problem since the MMO is catered towards hardcore players with lots of time to spend.

    So us who like space ship MMOs are shit out of luck. The only other viable MMO is Star Trek Online and that is pure garbage. Basically the opposite of hardcore Eve, it is hugely casual with space ships popping left and right. Ridicilous.

    Elite Dangerous will probably be out in about 6-12 months and Star Citizien probably out in a couple of years or so. Other than that I guess us Space Ship fans have to stick with single player games.

  • JakdstripperJakdstripper Member RarePosts: 2,410

    EvE is not casual friendly. not in the least. 

    the only "casual" players are those vets that can long in once a week and farm a couple of billion isk in a few hours. they can afford to be casual because they have have played as hardcores for years. they have all the required skills and a huge stockpile of Isk. 

    new players have 3 choices: farm (and i mean mine :P) your heart out the old fashioned way for a few years. Join a large corp that will give you free stuff as long as you do what they ask of you.  Or pay real $$  to buy Plex for ingame Isk.

    the only truly casual choice is the 3rd one.

     

     

    then again it's a true sandbox. sanboxes aren't supposed to be casual friendly. 

     

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by Jakdstripper

    EvE is not casual friendly. not in the least. 

    the only "casual" players are those vets that can long in once a week and farm a couple of billion isk in a few hours. they can afford to be casual because they have have played as hardcores for years. they have all the required skills and a huge stockpile of Isk. 

    new players have 3 choices: farm (and i mean mine :P) your heart out the old fashioned way for a few years. Join a large corp that will give you free stuff as long as you do what they ask of you.  Or pay real $$  to buy Plex for ingame Isk.

    the only truly casual choice is the 3rd one.

     

     

    then again it's a true sandbox. sanboxes aren't supposed to be casual friendly. 

     

    Eve can be casual friendly, but it depends on your goals, some area easier/quicker to achieve than others.

     I would hardly recommend new players spend a few years mining however, that would be kind of boring, even mission running is far more fun, and for a beginning player, is likely to be more profitable than going straight into mining.

     The tutorial these days is fairly lengthy and far more challenging than it was when i first started, back in 2004, which btw, if you could let me know what it is i am doing wrong, would much appreciate it, as i have yet to reach the stage where i can log in for a few hours every week and make billions of iskimage

    Joining a Corp in Eve is the first and probably most important thing players do, so joining the right one is important, and rather than 'telling players what they have to do' the good ones are actually able to give help and advice, and often ships and equipment too, the point is to join the right Corp, the right one being entirely dependent on your goals, just don't take it personally if you get asked a lot of questions, there are many wannabee Corp spies/saboteurs so the good Corps tend to be very proactive when it comes to safeguarding their own assets.image

  • ArclanArclan Member UncommonPosts: 1,550

    It's not casual friendly at all. The offline training is cool, but will still take you eons to level up. Regarding PvP, you have no idea how powerful your opponent is.


    I found out the hard way when my 4750 base-hp Brutix was obliterated by a 1600 base-hp Thorax. I spent considerable time/money on my ship but the other player must have had far better equipment since the engagement left him with barely a scratch.


    And I also don't know if a casual gamer can expect to be exposed to some pretty heinous profanity. Not my cup of tea, personally.


    These two huge flaws above aside, Eve is an amazing game.


    "Other than that, Mrs Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?"

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • EnikEnik Member UncommonPosts: 99

    I've played off and on for 5 years and I've only recently accepted that it's simply not possible for me to play the game. It's waaaay too time consuming. Unless people want to do exclusively RvB or (maybe) Faction Warfare, you simply need to dedicate too much time to the game.

     

    I recently tried returning, so I joined a nullsec corp. After going through all of the alliance fits on their forums, I spent several hours buying everything I needed (modules, rigs, weapons, multiple ammo types, scripts, repair paste, etc.). Then I spent more hours moving all of that gear from shopping systems to my lowsec staging area to load into my carrier. And I spent still more hours moving cyno alts around to jump to their system. And that's just to PREP for PVP!

     

    I always find myself missing fleets because they go out 15 minutes before I log in, or they're planning on staying out for 8 hours, or the fleet comp is a ship I don't have ready, or it's on a weekend afternoon and I have to take my daughter to a birthday party, or, really, a million other things that stand in way. And unless you're in a small gang and the the rest of the fleet are willing to wait for you, you can't easily take a bathroom break, or a phone call, or respond to an email, ad infinitum. Impossible game to play if you're a group PVPer without a lot of spare time to dedicate, IMHO.

  • mark2123mark2123 Member UncommonPosts: 450

    I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the game is great but it's just too must of a time sink that a lot of people can't justify.  With a job, a family (two kids) and plenty else to do, I'm starting to find that my passion for MMOs is linked to how casual-friendly there are so that I can play for an hour and feell like I've done something. 

    Like the other guy said, you can spend hours just prepping do do something.  I once waited for a mining op to start.  It took 45 minutes from when it was mentioned to the first ship to be mining.  Then I ask "What the hell am I spending my spare time doing here" lol.

    If a space games comes along that's more 'casual friendly' and if it's pretty decent, that I'm up for that.  The couple on the horizon may be ok so will have to keep fingers crossed.

  • JakdstripperJakdstripper Member RarePosts: 2,410
    Originally posted by mark2123

    If a space games comes along that's more 'casual friendly' and if it's pretty decent, that I'm up for that.  The couple on the horizon may be ok so will have to keep fingers crossed.

    check out some youtube clips of Elite Dangerous.

    it's not a sandbox like EvE, and it is still in beta, but as far as space games it's been one of the best games around right now. it's completely casual friendly, so much so it even has a "solo" (just you and NPCs) option. 

    it's a cockpit view archade style flight space simulator much like what Star Citizen will be whenever it's released. some people do call it "space trucking online", and there is some truth to that as a lot of the starting money is made by moving goods between stations.  however, if you'd rather fight there is plenty of that as well. they are slowly adding exploration, and mining just now. while options are still a bit limited, and there is little "end game" content, the game looks amazing, and plays very well (random crashing aside). 

     

    Also, If you can get your hands on an Oculus Rift DK2 this game will blow your mind. no joke, there is nothing that will make you feel more like you are inside a friken spaceship like playing this game with the rift. 

  • DeathengerDeathenger Member UncommonPosts: 880
    I dunno, I play pretty casually at the moment having just returned from a 1 year break due to welcoming a new baby into the family. I sit down and play a few hours a night and have fun.

    I'm in RvB so when I'm not pewpew'ing I'm in nullsec scanning down data and relic sites making some isk. Both are things you can do with low level skills.

    Some may argue this, but the biggest bonus to EvE besides being the greatest sandbox game ever is the social aspect. It's hands down the most social game out there. Sandboxes weed out whiners and crybabies Which is also a bonus imho.
     
  • DeathengerDeathenger Member UncommonPosts: 880
    Also to touch On your comment out travel (sorry can't quote on mobile for some reason). You should find a "home system". Someplace to set yourself up where the things you need or want are fairly close. 10 jumps is maybe 5 min unless you're using auto pilot, or jumping to safe spots on gates in null/low sec to avoid bad guys.

    What do you want to be in EvE?

     
  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297

    Where the hell do people get the idea that mining is the way for a new player to make ISK? After years of seeing this I am baffled

     

     

    PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • SoaringBarnacleSoaringBarnacle Member UncommonPosts: 34

    There are some people who don't like to scam or join gatecamping corps. Baffles me also.

  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297
    Originally posted by SoaringBarnacle

    There are some people who don't like to scam or join gatecamping corps. Baffles me also.

    Ratting

    Missioning

    Trading

    Courier/Hauler work

    Exploration

    Invention

    Production

    Presumably you're not baffled that people don't do these in preference to mining as well. Please do help me understand why? That is if I'm not asking too much for you to hold back on the stupid identity politics bullshit - I realise people can get pretty attached to that, so I apologise if I'm asking too much of you here.

     

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    I think this game would have been better without the warpgates and chokepoints. There is this giant expanse of space, but its all mapped together by roads. My comment is meant to address the new player experience, not the big guild high end one.
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619

    I have always said that when I retire I am going back to playing Eve.  I agree it is not very casual friendly and most things take forever to do.  I like the game but each year I go back and get bored with the long waits to do anything. 

     

    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • PioneerStewPioneerStew Member Posts: 874

    I have only played EVE briefly on a few occasions, but these are my preconceptions (possibly misconceptions) of the game: -

    • It condones (or even promotes) griefing.  Corporations and gankers actively prevent newer players from progressing.    
    • The skill system means I will be playing catch up with long-serving players forever more.  
    • The activities are generally quite tedious, require little input from the player and even combat involves little-to-no real-time skill or involvement, it is more the battle of the spreadsheets.  
    Like I say, I might be entirely incorrect on all these points but they are the preconceptions I have, and neither my limited play experience, the developer, news items on the game or the players have done anything to alter them.  

     

  • shinkanshinkan Member UncommonPosts: 240

    If your looking for a game where you need to achieve goals and receive gratification when you log on for 60 min a day, then Eve is not the best place to look, themeparks does that bit better.

  • ArclanArclan Member UncommonPosts: 1,550


    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    ...combat involves little-to-no real-time skill or involvement, it is more the battle of the spreadsheets.


    Agreed. And I wish weapons had firing arcs. Right now you can fire all weapons in any direction.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by mark2123

    I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the game is great but it's just too must of a time sink that a lot of people can't justify.  With a job, a family (two kids) and plenty else to do, I'm starting to find that my passion for MMOs is linked to how casual-friendly there are so that I can play for an hour and feell like I've done something. Like the other guy said, you can spend hours just prepping do do something.  I once waited for a mining op to start.  It took 45 minutes from when it was mentioned to the first ship to be mining.  Then I ask "What the hell am I spending my spare time doing here" lol.If a space games comes along that's more 'casual friendly' and if it's pretty decent, that I'm up for that.  The couple on the horizon may be ok so will have to keep fingers crossed.

    That isn't related to game though. Organized group content in any game is rather time consuming.

    EVE is suited for casual play, and I would say more than other games. Due EVE being horizontal, there is no pressure on leveling or similar crap. You can log in and just do what you want depending on your mood and time available.


    However, I do agree on one of your points - travel time. That can be somewhat consuming, especially once you account for localized item storage and related asset management. It is managable though, you need to be a bit organized.

    There is tons of things to do for new players. My advice would be trying out running exploration. It is very suitable for playing in short time chunks. Other thing I would go for is FW missions - good rewards with some easily affordable PVP.


    Do not let ignorants tell you what you can do or not, or how the game is, find out for yourself.

  • CalfisCalfis Member UncommonPosts: 381
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    I like how it takes over 70 years to max out a character. It's a great conversation starter, anyone who never knew that goes, "What the fuck?".

    Its designed like that so there is literally no leveling cap, you can never have every skill, you need to pick and choose whats important for your needs.

    image

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by Jakdstripper

    EvE is not casual friendly. not in the least. 

    the only "casual" players are those vets that can long in once a week and farm a couple of billion isk in a few hours. they can afford to be casual because they have have played as hardcores for years. they have all the required skills and a huge stockpile of Isk. 

    new players have 3 choices: farm (and i mean mine :P) your heart out the old fashioned way for a few years. Join a large corp that will give you free stuff as long as you do what they ask of you.  Or pay real $$  to buy Plex for ingame Isk.

    the only truly casual choice is the 3rd one.

     

     

    then again it's a true sandbox. sanboxes aren't supposed to be casual friendly. 

     

    Eve can be casual friendly, but it depends on your goals, some area easier/quicker to achieve than others.

    The 'easier' ones are also the less worthwhile and, generally, less fun ones, which are going to be abandoned ASAP.  Eve is not a casual friendly game, by any stretch of the imagination. I've seen, for years, people propping up Eve as being decidedly hardcore and mocking people who prefer a more "casual friendly" experience ("go back to WoW", etc.). It seems rather odd to me, then, that now people claim it is, or even "can be" casual friendly.

    And anyway, whose definition of "casual friendly" are we measuring by here? There is no standard, "applies to everyone and every game" definition of the term.  Considering the time sink Eve is, by any definition, something that's "casual" in Eve could likely still be considered very un-casual in other MMOs.

     I would hardly recommend new players spend a few years mining however, that would be kind of boring, even mission running is far more fun, and for a beginning player, is likely to be more profitable than going straight into mining.

    Again, very opposite advice from what I typically see from fans and long time players of the game. At best, the only advice I've seen regarding doing Missions is, "they're okay to start with, but you're going to want to go on to something better before long, because it gets boring real fast". 

    Joining a Corp in Eve is the first and probably most important thing players do, so joining the right one is important, and rather than 'telling players what they have to do' the good ones are actually able to give help and advice, and often ships and equipment too, the point is to join the right Corp, the right one being entirely dependent on your goals, just don't take it personally if you get asked a lot of questions, there are many wannabee Corp spies/saboteurs so the good Corps tend to be very proactive when it comes to safeguarding their own assets.image

    A new player wouldn't be able to tell what a "good corp" is, beyond "are these people jerks to me, or ignoring me, or are they friendly and talkative...". And even '"friendly and talkative" isn't a guarantee, what with the scamming and such that goes on in that game. They won't be able to readily distinguish good advice from poor advice (no experience, no point of reference, no context). It's very easy for a player to be advised to go in a direction they wouldn't enjoy. It's easy for a vet to see what's good and what isn't. A new player has no idea, because *everything* is new to them. 

  • SoaringBarnacleSoaringBarnacle Member UncommonPosts: 34
    Originally posted by Malcanis
    Originally posted by SoaringBarnacle

    There are some people who don't like to scam or join gatecamping corps. Baffles me also.

    Ratting

    Missioning

    Trading

    Courier/Hauler work

    Exploration

    Invention

    Production

    Presumably you're not baffled that people don't do these in preference to mining as well. Please do help me understand why? That is if I'm not asking too much for you to hold back on the stupid identity politics bullshit - I realise people can get pretty attached to that, so I apologise if I'm asking too much of you here.

     

     

    - Ratting, missioning:

    Literally as numbing as mining, only more boring since there is hardly skill involved for a new player, plus you have to press keys so you can't do worthwhile things on the side like playing an instrument, reading, etc

     

    - Trading:

    Playing the 0.01 game with bots. So fun

     

    - Courier/hauler work:

    All the sensible hauler work is outsourced to Red Frog and the likes. Courier missions available are 75% scams and the 25% left yields less income than mining veldspar

     

    - Exploration:

    Actually this is probably the best road to follow for a new player, as high sec seeds pretty high rewards from time to time. Expect player to ragequit when, with a bit of experience under his belt, he ventures into lowsec for crappy rewards and constant griefing.

     

    - Invention / production:

    For a new player? all of my lols. There's no competing with industry moguls at this point.

     

    Scamming and gatecamping are still the most profitable ventures in this cesspool known as EvE-Online

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,945
    Originally posted by SoaringBarnacle
    Originally posted by Malcanis
    Originally posted by SoaringBarnacle

    There are some people who don't like to scam or join gatecamping corps. Baffles me also.

    Ratting

    Missioning

    Trading

    Courier/Hauler work

    Exploration

    Invention

    Production

    Presumably you're not baffled that people don't do these in preference to mining as well. Please do help me understand why? That is if I'm not asking too much for you to hold back on the stupid identity politics bullshit - I realise people can get pretty attached to that, so I apologise if I'm asking too much of you here.

     

    - Ratting, missioning:

    Literally as numbing as mining, only more boring since there is hardly skill involved for a new player, plus you have to press keys so you can't do worthwhile things on the side like playing an instrument, reading, etc

    I made my first 3 or 4 billion ISK mission running when I first started out, paid for all of my early ships in the process. I enjoyed shooting things, over and over, and salvaging afterwards.  Now strangely enough I'm training up and mining...like you said, it's a relaxing way to earn ISK.

    - Trading:

    Playing the 0.01 game with bots. So fun

    Yeah, this isn't real fun, but if you're trying to compete in the big market hubs you're doing it wrong as a new player.  I tried it once with a newly created alt and made $100 million or so in a month I guess, wasn't fun enough to keep going though.

    - Courier/hauler work:

    All the sensible hauler work is outsourced to Red Frog and the likes. Courier missions available are 75% scams and the 25% left yields less income than mining veldspar

    Never tried this, you are probably correct, never ran into anyone who bragged they got rich hauling as a new player.

    - Exploration:

    Actually this is probably the best road to follow for a new player, as high sec seeds pretty high rewards from time to time. Expect player to ragequit when, with a bit of experience under his belt, he ventures into lowsec for crappy rewards and constant griefing.

    People do seem to make some good isk as you mentioned, and yes, they do eventually venture out to low sec or 0.0 and get "surprised" and take a big hit.

    Speaking of highsec rewards, your mileage may vary, but a corp mate of mine was running some escalations in our .5 system and one week managed to pull 736M ISK out of it in items for a week.  Now the next two weeks were much lower, like only 80M but still, he made close to a billion ISk which wasn't bad for a "newer" player.

    - Invention / production:

    For a new player? all of my lols. There's no competing with industry moguls at this point.

    You know, I think I've found a way to make some ISK via industry with my new character, an underserved market but haven't had the time to go back and see how it will play out.

    Scamming and gatecamping are still the most profitable ventures in this cesspool known as EvE-Online

    Scamming is supposed to be very profitable, I just have too much of a conscience to participate in it.  Gate camps never really paid me big, guess we always had too many ships to make it worthwhile.

     

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • SoandsosoSoandsoso Member Posts: 533
    I can sum up all the complaints to "I wants stuffs now".
  • hfztthfztt Member RarePosts: 1,399
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    I like how it takes over 70 years to max out a character. It's a great conversation starter, anyone who never knew that goes, "What the fuck?".

    Yeah...

     Well, I made it half way to max in 10 years so your numbers are more than a little off. Though ~20 years is quite a bit too.

Sign In or Register to comment.