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I hope EQN takes a page from UO and Darkfalls book.

LustmordLustmord Member UncommonPosts: 1,114
I really hope EQN has a real crafting based economy, supported by either Full Loot and/or Severe Item Decay.
I want to slay a dragon with my guild, then skin it and use the hide, scales, and bones to make gear sets.



I want those gear sets to eventually filter out of the game so I have a reason to slay another dragon.



I don't want a perpetual treadmill of increasingly powerful items that constantly marginalize the usefullness of older content.
I don't want gearflation, and constant expansions of +5 levels that makes the older zones empty of players..



I really hope they follow through and make this a sandbox game in the vein of Ultima Online and Darkfall.
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Comments

  • LustmordLustmord Member UncommonPosts: 1,114
    Sorry for the block of text, my phone isn't letting me post paragraphs for some reason.
  • LIOKILIOKI Member UncommonPosts: 421
  • Varex12Varex12 Member CommonPosts: 357

    I hope EQN takes all the pages from Darkfall...and then burns them.  Horrible game design.  I'm okay with item decay.  I like that concept.  But full loot?  **** that.  That's a game-killer.  

     

  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    There are "levels" of a sort explained for EQN but not typical levels. They are "tiers" of gear that correspond to tiers in the world, both spanning horizontal in the world and vertical underground. Gearflation (great term) shouldn't be as much of an issue because...

    There are classes, 40 of them slated for launch, but you can switch between them and they use different types of gear. This would mean a lot of work for crafters by itself considering classes and tiers but also...

    Gear in EQN will be more about the effects it gives and how it works with the type of "build" your class setup currently has. The class video from SoE Live 2014 explains this much better than I could.

    Regarding full loot or item decay... I like item decay. I don't think it will be in EQN due to the need for so much gear already but I'd personally like to see it.

    Full loot, not so much IMO. To have full loot items must be pretty disposable and given that gear sets will be specifically tailored to a play style I can't see that going over well. It wouldn't match with what SoE says they want gearing to be like.
  • NagilumSadowNagilumSadow Member UncommonPosts: 318
    Originally posted by Lustmord
    [...] I don't want a perpetual treadmill of increasingly powerful items that constantly marginalize the usefullness of older content. I don't want gearflation, and constant expansions of +5 levels that makes the older zones empty of players.. I really hope they follow through and make this a sandbox game in the vein of Ultima Online and Darkfall.

     

    Well said. I fully agree on most every point. Darkfall is an astonishingly good mmo, it just needs a little more sand in the sandbox. I liked UO when is was first released, but didn't have time to play back then. Both of these mmos have their own very unique player history that cannot be overlooked, which is something I hope EQN nurtures.

  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,567
    Given the target audience and general way they are directing the game I seriously doubt you will see full loot. That will just scare off the kind of people they're hoping to attract.
  • nennafirnennafir Member UncommonPosts: 313
    Interesting.  I hope it regards UO as an old game that succeeded because it didn't have much competition and Darkfall as a game that failed because it was lame.
  • LustmordLustmord Member UncommonPosts: 1,114
    Originally posted by nennafir
    Interesting.  I hope it regards UO as an old game that succeeded because it didn't have much competition and Darkfall as a game that failed because it was lame.

    UO has been around for 17 years and still has a healthy population, despite all the competition on the market.

    Darkfall is the best MMO available on the market today. It hasn't failed yet, it maintains a strong community of hardcore fans.

    The only thing "lame", is the community of carebears that ask for dumbed down ez-mode MMO's with no risks or penalties, and they wonder why they get bored and unsub 2 months after launch.

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
    Originally posted by Lustmord
    Originally posted by nennafir
    Interesting.  I hope it regards UO as an old game that succeeded because it didn't have much competition and Darkfall as a game that failed because it was lame.

    UO has been around for 17 years and still has a healthy population, despite all the competition on the market.

    Darkfall is the best MMO available on the market today. It hasn't failed yet, it maintains a strong community of hardcore fans.

    The only thing "lame", is the community of carebears that ask for dumbed down ez-mode MMO's with no risks or penalties, and they wonder why they get bored and unsub 2 months after launch.

         Gotta ask you tho.. If UO and Darkfall both have healthy communities and are strong.. Why do you want ANOTHER game just like them? Duplicating products normally isn't a good idea.. A market can only sustain so much of one product..

  • LustmordLustmord Member UncommonPosts: 1,114
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by Lustmord
    Originally posted by nennafir
    Interesting.  I hope it regards UO as an old game that succeeded because it didn't have much competition and Darkfall as a game that failed because it was lame.

    UO has been around for 17 years and still has a healthy population, despite all the competition on the market.

    Darkfall is the best MMO available on the market today. It hasn't failed yet, it maintains a strong community of hardcore fans.

    The only thing "lame", is the community of carebears that ask for dumbed down ez-mode MMO's with no risks or penalties, and they wonder why they get bored and unsub 2 months after launch.

         Gotta ask you tho.. If UO and Darkfall both have healthy communities and are strong.. Why do you want ANOTHER game just like them? Duplicating products normally isn't a good idea.. A market can only sustain so much of one product..

    Obviously EQN wouldn't be a duplication, with the emergent AI and voxel world.

    Full loot is simply a reward for playing well, and a punishment for playing bad. It adds a risk-vs-reward dynamic that get's your blood pumping. If people can't handle others being rewarded for killing them, there still needs to be penalties for dying.

    If you don't want full loot, fine. But the game atleast needs a strong item decay. Gear needs to leave the system, so crafters have a demand to supply.

    Why is it wrong to ask for a true crafting based economy in a sandbox game, supported by a big budget studio like SOE?

     

     

  • emikochanemikochan Member UncommonPosts: 290

    If you don't want full loot, fine. But the game atleast needs a strong item decay. Gear needs to leave the system, so crafters have a demand to supply.

    Why is it wrong to ask for a true crafting based economy in a sandbox game, supported by a big budget studio like SOE?

     

     

    This would be nice, but It's probably not going to happen, the game seems like it'll be very casual fun.

  • sonicwhip2sonicwhip2 Member Posts: 86
     I kind of wish EQN would sort of use the crafting and economy systems that Runescape was using in which there is large scale progression and a heavy emphasis on players crafting items to fuel the economy.
  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Member UncommonPosts: 3,713
    I actually like item decay, I don't like full loot or open pvp though. But I don't see EQN having any item decay. Players as a whole don't generally like losing their phat loot ever.

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  • KabonKabon Member UncommonPosts: 76
    Full loot is a bad Model in a online Game ... go ld and get killed = loose Gear .. get ambushed by 12ppls loose Gear ... it wouldn want to invest Time in a Gear based Game if i can loose it all i wouldn want that kinda of risk at all since to me and prolly to alot others its a dumb kinda of risk..i could go train surfing if i want dumb kind of risks but i dont... and theres noone that wont ever loose it all its not like in the Movies with Superman noone will ever ever be some kind of gaming Superman ... i would give more Gold or other kind of rewards to ppls that kill players with better Gear but not the Gear itself. Anyway after all PVP in a online Mmoprg is most times bad after all it ruined alot Mmorpgs already since all the publishers think its the non plus ultra to get the crowd the entire casual theme quest park stuff out there as well. All of todays Games are dumbed down and simplified so you dont have to think to play it you just go play it and your fine ... casual boredom ... since that what happens very soon if you cant dig deep in a Game. Sure its all nice n fluffy at the start but the end will come fast.
  • GaladournGaladourn Member RarePosts: 1,802

    Full loot has proven to be a bad game design, much like perma-death. Why? Because part of character advancement comes through gear, and when you make gear trivial, like in DF (well, at least the gear players usually use), you miss out on one potential advancement goal.

    Everyone uses easy to get everyday gear. Very rare/powerful gear, in full loot games, is rarely worn because players are afraid of being killed and losing it.

    Also, since gear needs to be easy to get because you will lose it most of the time, everyone becomes a master of all the crafting professions and has very little need for other crafters.

     

  • Ket_VilianoKet_Viliano Member UncommonPosts: 271

    EVE is full loot, at least from the perspective of what you lose, and EVE is still going strong, despite many missteps from CCP, so of course, the conclusion must be that Full Loot is bad game design. You guys are thick.

     

    The main problem with DFO, was that it was grindy as hell, with a backloaded reward for the grind, in a game where the grind was still very important for competition in PvP. Gear was always easy enough to come by, but was not important enough relative to grind, such that many troll players would run around in robes and mid level weapons. Being ungeared, or poorly geared, needed to be a serious liability, and it was not.

     

    The second problem with DFO, was that you were forced into the PvP zone as a noob, the moment you stepped out of any city, and left at the mercy ( lol ) of maxed out players. If DFO had a *safe zone* large enough to reach max power level, it would have been a much better game. EVE has a large enough, safe enough zone to reach max level PvP skills, and a way to grind up the ISK for PvP, all without ever having to PvP. It just takes about 3 years to get there, unless you want to only fly t1 frigates.

     

    Also, DFO was no sandbox, it was just a persistent PvP battle arena, with nothing else to do.

  • GaladournGaladourn Member RarePosts: 1,802

    EVE has rather large high Security zones, which is almost like saying safe zones.

    full loot could work with safe zones, but not stand-alone

  • AustrianAustrian Member UncommonPosts: 72


    Originally posted by Galadourn
    EVE has rather large high Security zones, which is almost like saying safe zones.full loot could work with safe zones, but not stand-alone

    ^ and it also depends on the economy as well. If it takes too much time and costs to craft or produce basic or even some type of decent quality gear then that means losing it will also be a PITA and will deter players from joining as the game will be too much of a grind to acquire gear.

  • badbingo10badbingo10 Member Posts: 46

    misread this.

     

  • ohioastroohioastro Member UncommonPosts: 517

     There is a reason why open world PvP games have such a small market share.  It's always easier to win an unfair fight than a fair one, and some people really enjoy making others feel miserable - so the game play inevitably drifts in a toxic direction.

    Standard MMOs actually have a strong *co-operative* ethos.  If you're doing team PvP you are a soldier in an army and you rely on your buddies.  If you're doing PvE you're working together against an external challenge.  If you're doing full-loot PvP you're basically creating a virtual world where you're a criminal and the other people that you're playing with are your victims..

    I'm pretty confident that EQN won't go in that direction. 

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Member UncommonPosts: 2,610

    EQN should not, ever, take anything from Darkfall.  EVER.  Why would you want a new game to model itself after another game that has been struggling since launch day?  In fact, the only reason Darkfall hasn't been shut down is because the lead guy over there has a rich daddy.  Darkfall is a complete failure, and anyone who still plays it should be ashamed of it.

     

    UO, on the other hand, has managed to stay alive, even if on life support, for what?  17 years now?  

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Member UncommonPosts: 2,610
    Originally posted by Varex12

    I hope EQN takes all the pages from Darkfall...and then burns them.  Horrible game design.  I'm okay with item decay.  I like that concept.  But full loot?  **** that.  That's a game-killer.  

     

    You guys crack me up.  People like you with your full loot hatred are apparently too blind to see that you have a version of full loot in every single MMO that you play.  It's called repair costs.  The only difference is, instead of paying a flat fee to repair your equipped items, you pay a fee, or purchase, replacement items in a full loot game.  Those games are designed to allow you to easily replace items.  Take a step back for a moment and recognize your ignorance.

  • LustmordLustmord Member UncommonPosts: 1,114
    Originally posted by ohioastro

     There is a reason why open world PvP games have such a small market share.  It's always easier to win an unfair fight than a fair one, and some people really enjoy making others feel miserable - so the game play inevitably drifts in a toxic direction.

    Let me tell you a story of what just happened to me, 10 minutes ago, in Darkfall.

    I was farming Ghouls for an item they drop, Lye. I was there for about an hour.. 2-3 shotting these mobs and just collecting the lye for crafting. I was getting pretty bored.

    My girlfriend called me, and I was talking on the phone to her while farming... All the sudden, I hear a player ability load up and hit me. I say "I gotta go!" and throw the phone down.

    Some random guy jumped me, and almost killed me.. I squirreled around, parried, healed, and worked on getting my stats back for a minute. Once I got comfortable, I pressed the offensive, and we fought for about 5 minutes before I took him down.

    As he laid on the ground, he said "GF". I agreed, "GF", and I rezzed him and walked away.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    Originally posted by Lustmord

    I really hope EQN has a real crafting based economy, supported by either Full Loot and/or Severe Item Decay.
    I want to slay a dragon with my guild, then skin it and use the hide, scales, and bones to make gear sets.



    I want those gear sets to eventually filter out of the game so I have a reason to slay another dragon.



    I don't want a perpetual treadmill of increasingly powerful items that constantly marginalize the usefullness of older content.
    I don't want gearflation, and constant expansions of +5 levels that makes the older zones empty of players..



    I really hope they follow through and make this a sandbox game in the vein of Ultima Online and Darkfall.

     

    How did I know this would have something about free looting... EQN shouldn't repeat the FAILURES of the past.
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,619
    The one thing I would want from UO would be the crafting. UO is the only game where I really really enjoyed crafting. And I dont think any game should take a page from Darkfall for anything and if they did the page(s) should be burnt.
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