Actually, if he watches from 12min forward about 45 sec, Steve says specifically it's not just a "binary faction bar". I think also, it's inferred the area influence produces more than just "roaming (pathing) mob packs".
Steve is just playing with words there.. I watched it many times.. A player generates a positive or negative number on "whatever" bar you want to call it, that will effect their influence with NPC's.. This is all about consequences, which in a computer world has to be binary data.. I have not seen or heard anything that proves me wrong..
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Ooo I get it, you dont get the difference between EQ1 and other games that have scripted actions and how Story Bricks is unknown outcome. If you dont get that from what the devs have shown and told us. I dont think I could do much better. Sad because that the thing that makes SB so special. Thats the one point that makes SB the thing that could change how we game. Thats the thing that will make the game look so different from server to server. Thats the thing that has so many excited to see SB in action. Sorry your not getting it because scripted actions is not what this game is about.
Seriously?? There is no unknown outcome in Storybricks.. It is ALL scripted, just more complex then what we've seen so far.. I can bet you the farm I can take 20 characters and have each one of them group together and do exactly the same things, and get the same results in all 20.. Unknown would imply that I would get 20 different outcomes and results, and it would be complete random actions, but we know that isn't the case.. 1+1=2 and 2+2=4.. etc etc..
The ONLY reason why things would be different from server to server is resulting from player interaction.. GW2 is different from server to server technically.. No one has seen SB in action because it doesn't exist in program yet.. There is nothing procedural or random about Storybricks.. A code is a code is a code and will always be a code.. You either follow it, or it's random..
Ooo I get it, you dont get the difference between EQ1 and other games that have scripted actions and how Story Bricks is unknown outcome. If you dont get that from what the devs have shown and told us. I dont think I could do much better. Sad because that the thing that makes SB so special. Thats the one point that makes SB the thing that could change how we game. Thats the thing that will make the game look so different from server to server. Thats the thing that has so many excited to see SB in action. Sorry your not getting it because scripted actions is not what this game is about.
Seriously?? There is no unknown outcome in Storybricks.. It is ALL scripted, just more complex then what we've seen so far.. I can bet you the farm I can take 20 characters and have each one of them group together and do exactly the same things, and get the same results in all 20.. Unknown would imply that I would get 20 different outcomes and results, and it would be complete random actions, but we know that isn't the case.. 1+1=2 and 2+2=4.. etc etc..
The ONLY reason why things would be different from server to server is resulting from player interaction.. GW2 is different from server to server technically.. No one has seen SB in action because it doesn't exist in program yet.. There is nothing procedural or random about Storybricks.. A code is a code is a code and will always be a code.. You either follow it, or it's random..
Your post just again shows you really dont have even a little grasp on how SB works. Or your blocking out things the devs are saying for what ever reason or you just cant grasp the main concepts. Same simulation run many times will have different outcomes. Thats the devs own words and they have shown us that in demos. Wish I could explain it in a simpler way so you could grasp it.
ok... I believe he addresses such a faction bar, and in addition there are other factors which change npc reaction toward you based on decisions. I understand "it's a computer, there is only binary". Again, you're intentionally minimalizing. Why are you doing it?
Watching this made me remember the GW2 hype. No quests, dynamic chained events which change the world, sounds just awesome. Unfortunately, it turned into Step 1 take centaur camp Step 2 defend centaur camp Step 3 go away so centaurs can take the camp Step 4 go to Step 1 - I just don't want something like this again, with a little more complexity.
Actual gameplay videos about how what they talk about unfolds might help, their presentations and talks are not convincing yet.
I can't continue right now. Someone just compared EQN hype with all its systems to GW2 hype and all its reddit. There's a world of difference going on here, and I need to log off awhile to cool down before I start snapping at people and their observations.
Watching this made me remember the GW2 hype. No quests, dynamic chained events which change the world, sounds just awesome. Unfortunately, it turned into Step 1 take centaur camp Step 2 defend centaur camp Step 3 go away so centaurs can take the camp Step 4 go to Step 1 - I just don't want something like this again, with a little more complexity.
Actual gameplay videos about how what they talk about unfolds might help, their presentations and talks are not convincing yet.
I too am let down by see vids of Devs getting all hot and bothered over their ideas. Not that I have ANY reason to disbelieve any dev-speak.
Watching this made me remember the GW2 hype. No quests, dynamic chained events which change the world, sounds just awesome. Unfortunately, it turned into Step 1 take centaur camp Step 2 defend centaur camp Step 3 go away so centaurs can take the camp Step 4 go to Step 1 - I just don't want something like this again, with a little more complexity.
Actual gameplay videos about how what they talk about unfolds might help, their presentations and talks are not convincing yet.
The key differences between GW2 Dynamic content and ENQ is the scripting. If you just watched an event in GW2 its on the same cycle every 20 min. Same steps every time. So you only have 2 outcomes, players win and get a reward and event resets, players fail so no reward and event resets or stays at the point the players failed so you can pick up from where you left off. Always resetting back to the first step in the end.
With EQN you can change how an area plays out and there is no reset. Just player and NPC interactions that shape the area. Given time and if everyone kept helping the same group, the area/faction may even end up building a city that was never there. Later events may turn the tide and now that city is ruins and filled with ghosts and monsters. On another server that city was never built.
Watching this made me remember the GW2 hype. No quests, dynamic chained events which change the world, sounds just awesome. Unfortunately, it turned into Step 1 take centaur camp Step 2 defend centaur camp Step 3 go away so centaurs can take the camp Step 4 go to Step 1 - I just don't want something like this again, with a little more complexity.
Actual gameplay videos about how what they talk about unfolds might help, their presentations and talks are not convincing yet.
The key differences between GW2 Dynamic content and ENQ is the scripting. If you just watched an event in GW2 its on the same cycle every 20 min. Same steps every time. So you only have 2 outcomes, players win and get a reward and event resets, players fail so no reward and event resets or stays at the point the players failed so you can pick up from where you left off. Always resetting back to the first step in the end.
With EQN you can change how an area plays out and there is no reset. Just player and NPC interactions that shape the area. Given time and if everyone kept helping the same group, the area/faction may even end up building a city that was never there. Later events may turn the tide and now that city is ruins and filled with ghosts and monsters. On another server that city was never built.
I fully understood the basic idea behind EQN. My point was that GW2 was hyped in the same way as this, with dynamic chains of events which physically change the world around the player. I remember those videos with the centaurs that come from the woods and attack the farm and if you fail to defend it, the centaurs take it, they build something else there, it's all a changing world. Technically, that was no lie - the world changes... for about 20 minutes, as you've said. They said nothing about events being repetitive and that the world resets etc.
A situation having more probable outcomes certainly makes the things better (and i'm sure they're gonna have at least that) but still, I have to see it in action. I'm tempted to believe that, as the game ages, the players will know all these outcomes and it will not be fun at all, but I really hope it will not end up like this.
I'm not bashing the game. I really really hope it will be awesome. In fact, EQN is the game i have the highest hopes for. It's just that all this talk around systems with little proof brings back GW2 hype memories, that's all.
Watching this made me remember the GW2 hype. No quests, dynamic chained events which change the world, sounds just awesome. Unfortunately, it turned into Step 1 take centaur camp Step 2 defend centaur camp Step 3 go away so centaurs can take the camp Step 4 go to Step 1 - I just don't want something like this again, with a little more complexity.
Actual gameplay videos about how what they talk about unfolds might help, their presentations and talks are not convincing yet.
The key differences between GW2 Dynamic content and ENQ is the scripting. If you just watched an event in GW2 its on the same cycle every 20 min. Same steps every time. So you only have 2 outcomes, players win and get a reward and event resets, players fail so no reward and event resets or stays at the point the players failed so you can pick up from where you left off. Always resetting back to the first step in the end.
With EQN you can change how an area plays out and there is no reset. Just player and NPC interactions that shape the area. Given time and if everyone kept helping the same group, the area/faction may even end up building a city that was never there. Later events may turn the tide and now that city is ruins and filled with ghosts and monsters. On another server that city was never built.
I fully understood the basic idea behind EQN. My point was that GW2 was hyped in the same way as this, with dynamic chains of events which physically change the world around the player. I remember those videos with the centaurs that come from the woods and attack the farm and if you fail to defend it, the centaurs take it, they build something else there, it's all a changing world. Technically, that was no lie - the world changes... for about 20 minutes, as you've said. They said nothing about events being repetitive and that the world resets etc.
A situation having more probable outcomes certainly makes the things better (and i'm sure they're gonna have at least that) but still, I have to see it in action. I'm tempted to believe that, as the game ages, the players will know all these outcomes and it will not be fun at all, but I really hope it will not end up like this.
I'm not bashing the game. I really really hope it will be awesome. In fact, EQN is the game i have the highest hopes for. It's just that all this talk around systems with little proof brings back GW2 hype memories, that's all.
Just a FYI, GW2 gave us just what they promised, content that had chain event. No quests. The hearts were added in later to help people who were confused and had no idea what direction they should run in so logged off. There are gamers that unless they are pointed in a direction, wont explore at all. Sadly I was in GW2 beta and this was most gamers. Also that same set of gamers ran from heart to heart and missed 1/2 the content.
Watching this made me remember the GW2 hype. No quests, dynamic chained events which change the world, sounds just awesome. Unfortunately, it turned into Step 1 take centaur camp Step 2 defend centaur camp Step 3 go away so centaurs can take the camp Step 4 go to Step 1 - I just don't want something like this again, with a little more complexity.
Actual gameplay videos about how what they talk about unfolds might help, their presentations and talks are not convincing yet.
I too am let down by see vids of Devs getting all hot and bothered over their ideas. Not that I have ANY reason to disbelieve any dev-speak.
I'm with you both.. Deja vu all over again.. GW2's dynamic events became so predictable, we ran them like a big cycle.. We would do DE#1 (2 steps) then swing over and do DE#2 (3 steps).. By the time we completed DE#2, DE#1 was almost resetting and we would run it agian , and again and again.. Even Rift's zone events became predictable, because as with most things that are computer code, UNLESS you code it to be completely random, players will always find pattern, and exploit it.. I have yet to see anything in EQN shows me that isn't going to happen again.. Most of us heard all this before from Arenanet and Trion, I don't think SOE is going to be much different, but we'll see
Watching this made me remember the GW2 hype. No quests, dynamic chained events which change the world, sounds just awesome. Unfortunately, it turned into Step 1 take centaur camp Step 2 defend centaur camp Step 3 go away so centaurs can take the camp Step 4 go to Step 1 - I just don't want something like this again, with a little more complexity.
Actual gameplay videos about how what they talk about unfolds might help, their presentations and talks are not convincing yet.
I too am let down by see vids of Devs getting all hot and bothered over their ideas. Not that I have ANY reason to disbelieve any dev-speak.
I'm with you both.. Deja vu all over again.. GW2's dynamic events became so predictable, we ran them like a big cycle.. We would do DE#1 (2 steps) then swing over and do DE#2 (3 steps).. By the time we completed DE#2, DE#1 was almost resetting and we would run it agian , and again and again.. Even Rift's zone events became predictable, because as with most things that are computer code, UNLESS you code it to be completely random, players will always find pattern, and exploit it.. I have yet to see anything in EQN shows me that isn't going to happen again.. Most of us heard all this before from Arenanet and Trion, I don't think SOE is going to be much different, but we'll see
As in my post above, Trion gave us just what they promises and did it well. SoE is telling us a different story.
Originally posted by Mendel Was there really a need to necro a thread from October just to engage in another semantics war?
Your post is not on topic, if you have something you would like to add to the conversation, we would love to hear it. Other then that, well you know...
The key differences between GW2 Dynamic content and ENQ is the scripting. If you just watched an event in GW2 its on the same cycle every 20 min. Same steps every time. So you only have 2 outcomes, players win and get a reward and event resets, players fail so no reward and event resets or stays at the point the players failed so you can pick up from where you left off. Always resetting back to the first step in the end. TRUE
With EQN you can change how an area plays out and there is no reset. Just player and NPC interactions that shape the area. Given time and if everyone kept helping the same group, the area/faction may even end up building a city that was never there. Later events may turn the tide and now that city is ruins and filled with ghosts and monsters. On another server that city was never built. NOT TRUE.. That part of NPC's just building cities randomly in a chain of events is speculation on your part. The only part I remember hearing about cities popping up will come from Rally Calls, and I doubt EQN is going to have server specific RC's, or triggered RC's.. Mob's are going to react to satisfying their desire of "DATA RESOURCES", which could be wealth, religion, power, etc etc.. (moths to a flame).. As those data resources change, the world changes.., and players react to those changes and have some effect on them..
But as previous posters have said, and I have said as well, Mobs are ONLY going to react to what is coded.. That code might be responding to the "data resource" they are instructed to go after. We players can't change the internal code of what that NPC likes and dislikes, but we can alter their interaction by effecting the data resource they desire such as "wealth" or "wood" or whatever it might be..
We are only saying that as much as SOE will be disguising that code, it is only a matter of time before players find out what it is and how to use it to their advantage.. That is one thing you can always count on with players.. = exploiting gaming code, it's as sure as death and taxes.. LOL
Ooo I get it, you dont get the difference between EQ1 and other games that have scripted actions and how Story Bricks is unknown outcome. If you dont get that from what the devs have shown and told us. I dont think I could do much better. Sad because that the thing that makes SB so special. Thats the one point that makes SB the thing that could change how we game. Thats the thing that will make the game look so different from server to server. Thats the thing that has so many excited to see SB in action. Sorry your not getting it because scripted actions is not what this game is about.
Seriously?? There is no unknown outcome in Storybricks.. It is ALL scripted, just more complex then what we've seen so far.. I can bet you the farm I can take 20 characters and have each one of them group together and do exactly the same things, and get the same results in all 20.. Unknown would imply that I would get 20 different outcomes and results, and it would be complete random actions, but we know that isn't the case.. 1+1=2 and 2+2=4.. etc etc..
The ONLY reason why things would be different from server to server is resulting from player interaction.. GW2 is different from server to server technically.. No one has seen SB in action because it doesn't exist in program yet.. There is nothing procedural or random about Storybricks.. A code is a code is a code and will always be a code.. You either follow it, or it's random..
Your post just again shows you really dont have even a little grasp on how SB works. Or your blocking out things the devs are saying for what ever reason or you just cant grasp the main concepts. Same simulation run many times will have different outcomes. Thats the devs own words and they have shown us that in demos. Wish I could explain it in a simpler way so you could grasp it.
As I understand it, the difference between Storybricks and "traditional" NPC scripting is that Storybricks includes the ability to "learn".
That means that unlike the traditional static NPC scripts, the Storybricks behaviours can change dynamically based on what happens in the world. The database for the Storybricks scripts will influence which parts of the scripts are run, and how often, and the values in that database will get populated by actual events happening in the game world.
So if the Orcs of Blackwood Forest are continually being murdered by Elven player characters, then those Orc NPC's will develop a hatred for ALL Elven player characters, even though they may start out as neutral toward Elves. The developers could then, for example, decide to have a progressive ingame event that either resets the Orc hatred for Elves or reinforces it, depending on the event outcome.
So the degree of complexity for the NPC actions is not only dependent on "traditional" branching scripts, but also on ever-changing parameter values, depending on how many parameters are tracked in the Storybricks engine for each group of NPC's (or even significant single NPC's).
Originally posted by Mendel Was there really a need to necro a thread from October just to engage in another semantics war?
Your post is not on topic, if you have something you would like to add to the conversation, we would love to hear it. Other then that, well you know...
In a thread that has meandered from discussing a EQ:N developers video to the pre-launch hype of GW2, not much is really off-topic. How about taking the Nanfoodle-Rydeson debate to PMs, or make your own thread for that, and keep threads like this safely dead? When it pops to the top of the post list, it makes people think that something new pertaining to EQ:N.
edit: corrected a member's name.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Still waiting to see it in live gameplay with 1000s of other players running around and interacting with NPCs.
What is the scalabilty of storybricks? - What are the hard limits of the system?
Again the idea that 10,000s of NPCs would all have a deep branching AI system with 1000s of players interacting with them (and NPCs interacting amongs eachother) ... it's a hard pill to swallow.
I am sure that it can be pulled off - but at what cost? How many Storybricks servers/processes are needed to handle X number of NPCs?
Heavy AI comes at heavy CPU cost - that's why I am questions the scalability as well as depth and breadth of actual final implementation of Storybricks in EQN.
Is every single NPC in game going to be running on Storybricks - or only select "key" NPCs?
My thoughts and concerns exactly.
It sounds good when someone explains it to you and shows you a vision they have. It looks good when you're running a localized simulator, but it will be another thing when they try to implement this in a live national server.
The key differences between GW2 Dynamic content and ENQ is the scripting. If you just watched an event in GW2 its on the same cycle every 20 min. Same steps every time. So you only have 2 outcomes, players win and get a reward and event resets, players fail so no reward and event resets or stays at the point the players failed so you can pick up from where you left off. Always resetting back to the first step in the end. TRUE
With EQN you can change how an area plays out and there is no reset. Just player and NPC interactions that shape the area. Given time and if everyone kept helping the same group, the area/faction may even end up building a city that was never there. Later events may turn the tide and now that city is ruins and filled with ghosts and monsters. On another server that city was never built. NOT TRUE.. That part of NPC's just building cities randomly in a chain of events is speculation on your part. The only part I remember hearing about cities popping up will come from Rally Calls, and I doubt EQN is going to have server specific RC's, or triggered RC's.. Mob's are going to react to satisfying their desire of "DATA RESOURCES", which could be wealth, religion, power, etc etc.. (moths to a flame).. As those data resources change, the world changes.., and players react to those changes and have some effect on them..
But as previous posters have said, and I have said as well, Mobs are ONLY going to react to what is coded.. That code might be responding to the "data resource" they are instructed to go after. We players can't change the internal code of what that NPC likes and dislikes, but we can alter their interaction by effecting the data resource they desire such as "wealth" or "wood" or whatever it might be..
We are only saying that as much as SOE will be disguising that code, it is only a matter of time before players find out what it is and how to use it to their advantage.. That is one thing you can always count on with players.. = exploiting gaming code, it's as sure as death and taxes.. LOL
The devs talked about depending on how players supported a faction they could build a castle/city just as I posted above. Right down to that same castle may not even be on another server because of player interaction. He also said later it could end up being a ruin. They even had pictures of it.
Originally posted by Mendel Was there really a need to necro a thread from October just to engage in another semantics war?
Your post is not on topic, if you have something you would like to add to the conversation, we would love to hear it. Other then that, well you know...
In a thread that has meandered from discussing a EQ:N developers video to the pre-launch hype of GW2, not much is really off-topic. How about taking the Nanfoodle-Rydeson debate to PMs, or make your own thread for that, and keep threads like this safely dead? When it pops to the top of the post list, it makes people think that something new pertaining to EQ:N.
edit: corrected a member's name.
Your still off topic. If you want to send me advice send a PM where I can add you to a block list. Good day.
Actually, if he watches from 12min forward about 45 sec, Steve says specifically it's not just a "binary faction bar". I think also, it's inferred the area influence produces more than just "roaming (pathing) mob packs".
Steve is just playing with words there.. I watched it many times.. A player generates a positive or negative number on "whatever" bar you want to call it, that will effect their influence with NPC's.. This is all about consequences, which in a computer world has to be binary data.. I have not seen or heard anything that proves me wrong..
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Ooo I get it, you dont get the difference between EQ1 and other games that have scripted actions and how Story Bricks is unknown outcome. If you dont get that from what the devs have shown and told us. I dont think I could do much better. Sad because that the thing that makes SB so special. Thats the one point that makes SB the thing that could change how we game. Thats the thing that will make the game look so different from server to server. Thats the thing that has so many excited to see SB in action. Sorry your not getting it because scripted actions is not what this game is about.
Seriously?? There is no unknown outcome in Storybricks.. It is ALL scripted, just more complex then what we've seen so far.. I can bet you the farm I can take 20 characters and have each one of them group together and do exactly the same things, and get the same results in all 20.. Unknown would imply that I would get 20 different outcomes and results, and it would be complete random actions, but we know that isn't the case.. 1+1=2 and 2+2=4.. etc etc..
The ONLY reason why things would be different from server to server is resulting from player interaction.. GW2 is different from server to server technically.. No one has seen SB in action because it doesn't exist in program yet.. There is nothing procedural or random about Storybricks.. A code is a code is a code and will always be a code.. You either follow it, or it's random..
Yeah that's not how SB works at all. The NPC's are not only influenced by your character's past actions but also other character's actions and what is going on in the world. The devs have already stated it many times, if you play an alt you won't be able to replicate a previous character's experience because the world will have changed and the way the NPC's react to your new character will be different due to that. In other words, it's not scripted.
Actually, if he watches from 12min forward about 45 sec, Steve says specifically it's not just a "binary faction bar". I think also, it's inferred the area influence produces more than just "roaming (pathing) mob packs".
Steve is just playing with words there.. I watched it many times.. A player generates a positive or negative number on "whatever" bar you want to call it, that will effect their influence with NPC's.. This is all about consequences, which in a computer world has to be binary data.. I have not seen or heard anything that proves me wrong..
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Ooo I get it, you dont get the difference between EQ1 and other games that have scripted actions and how Story Bricks is unknown outcome. If you dont get that from what the devs have shown and told us. I dont think I could do much better. Sad because that the thing that makes SB so special. Thats the one point that makes SB the thing that could change how we game. Thats the thing that will make the game look so different from server to server. Thats the thing that has so many excited to see SB in action. Sorry your not getting it because scripted actions is not what this game is about.
Seriously?? There is no unknown outcome in Storybricks.. It is ALL scripted, just more complex then what we've seen so far.. I can bet you the farm I can take 20 characters and have each one of them group together and do exactly the same things, and get the same results in all 20.. Unknown would imply that I would get 20 different outcomes and results, and it would be complete random actions, but we know that isn't the case.. 1+1=2 and 2+2=4.. etc etc..
The ONLY reason why things would be different from server to server is resulting from player interaction.. GW2 is different from server to server technically.. No one has seen SB in action because it doesn't exist in program yet.. There is nothing procedural or random about Storybricks.. A code is a code is a code and will always be a code.. You either follow it, or it's random..
Yeah that's not how SB works at all. The NPC's are not only influenced by your character's past actions but also other character's actions and what is going on in the world. The devs have already stated it many times, if you play an alt you won't be able to replicate a previous character's experience because the world will have changed and the way the NPC's react to your new character will be different due to that. In other words, it's not scripted.
This and that changing world is because of SB and how it works with NPC and player interaction.
Take any system with randomized content based on multiple variables, and put it to the test with thousands of players acting upon it, and they will break it, or break it down.
Even the best laid plans can fall to ruin.
What I want: Good gameplay.
Storybricks are great on paper, and so are all the player influenced stuff, but since as a single player, it is VERY unlikely that I will have the effect that I want happen on an area, faction or outcome, I will settle with not being bored doing my thing, either in a group, or solo.
Give us the tools for macro development... but do not forget the fun content for the group and solo play.
Unfortunately, as of yet, combat is NOT optimal in this game, regardless of how good the AI or world is. Unless that changes, you will have this grandiose world, that is super interactive and never the same, but boring on the individual level, and hence... empty and a failure.
Still waiting to see it in live gameplay with 1000s of other players running around and interacting with NPCs.
What is the scalabilty of storybricks? - What are the hard limits of the system?
Again the idea that 10,000s of NPCs would all have a deep branching AI system with 1000s of players interacting with them (and NPCs interacting amongs eachother) ... it's a hard pill to swallow.
I am sure that it can be pulled off - but at what cost? How many Storybricks servers/processes are needed to handle X number of NPCs?
Heavy AI comes at heavy CPU cost - that's why I am questions the scalability as well as depth and breadth of actual final implementation of Storybricks in EQN.
Is every single NPC in game going to be running on Storybricks - or only select "key" NPCs?
Take any system with randomized content based on multiple variables, and put it to the test with thousands of players acting upon it, and they will break it, or break it down.
Even the best laid plans can fall to ruin.
What I want: Good gameplay.
Storybricks are great on paper, and so are all the player influenced stuff, but since as a single player, it is VERY unlikely that I will have the effect that I want happen on an area, faction or outcome, I will settle with not being bored doing my thing, either in a group, or solo.
Give us the tools for macro development... but do not forget the fun content for the group and solo play.
Unfortunately, as of yet, combat is NOT optimal in this game, regardless of how good the AI or world is. Unless that changes, you will have this grandiose world, that is super interactive and never the same, but boring on the individual level, and hence... empty and a failure.
This is different then any other MMO system? Its what gamers do best =-) Im sure they will get it mostly nailed down in Open Beta and then have to readjust come live. Something this big may even take months to work out after live. Again, how is even that different then any MMO launch?
Still waiting to see it in live gameplay with 1000s of other players running around and interacting with NPCs.
What is the scalabilty of storybricks? - What are the hard limits of the system?
Again the idea that 10,000s of NPCs would all have a deep branching AI system with 1000s of players interacting with them (and NPCs interacting amongs eachother) ... it's a hard pill to swallow.
I am sure that it can be pulled off - but at what cost? How many Storybricks servers/processes are needed to handle X number of NPCs?
Heavy AI comes at heavy CPU cost - that's why I am questions the scalability as well as depth and breadth of actual final implementation of Storybricks in EQN.
Is every single NPC in game going to be running on Storybricks - or only select "key" NPCs?
This is a very valid question.
Every NPC will but some with more options then others. But even the smallest goblin in the back of a very deep hole will have the drives of his race, class and maybe god at minimum and also how your chars actions may impact that NPC so it knows how to act around you.
Comments
Your post just again shows you really dont have even a little grasp on how SB works. Or your blocking out things the devs are saying for what ever reason or you just cant grasp the main concepts. Same simulation run many times will have different outcomes. Thats the devs own words and they have shown us that in demos. Wish I could explain it in a simpler way so you could grasp it.
Watching this made me remember the GW2 hype. No quests, dynamic chained events which change the world, sounds just awesome. Unfortunately, it turned into Step 1 take centaur camp Step 2 defend centaur camp Step 3 go away so centaurs can take the camp Step 4 go to Step 1 - I just don't want something like this again, with a little more complexity.
Actual gameplay videos about how what they talk about unfolds might help, their presentations and talks are not convincing yet.
I too am let down by see vids of Devs getting all hot and bothered over their ideas. Not that I have ANY reason to disbelieve any dev-speak.
The key differences between GW2 Dynamic content and ENQ is the scripting. If you just watched an event in GW2 its on the same cycle every 20 min. Same steps every time. So you only have 2 outcomes, players win and get a reward and event resets, players fail so no reward and event resets or stays at the point the players failed so you can pick up from where you left off. Always resetting back to the first step in the end.
With EQN you can change how an area plays out and there is no reset. Just player and NPC interactions that shape the area. Given time and if everyone kept helping the same group, the area/faction may even end up building a city that was never there. Later events may turn the tide and now that city is ruins and filled with ghosts and monsters. On another server that city was never built.
I fully understood the basic idea behind EQN. My point was that GW2 was hyped in the same way as this, with dynamic chains of events which physically change the world around the player. I remember those videos with the centaurs that come from the woods and attack the farm and if you fail to defend it, the centaurs take it, they build something else there, it's all a changing world. Technically, that was no lie - the world changes... for about 20 minutes, as you've said. They said nothing about events being repetitive and that the world resets etc.
A situation having more probable outcomes certainly makes the things better (and i'm sure they're gonna have at least that) but still, I have to see it in action. I'm tempted to believe that, as the game ages, the players will know all these outcomes and it will not be fun at all, but I really hope it will not end up like this.
I'm not bashing the game. I really really hope it will be awesome. In fact, EQN is the game i have the highest hopes for. It's just that all this talk around systems with little proof brings back GW2 hype memories, that's all.
Just a FYI, GW2 gave us just what they promised, content that had chain event. No quests. The hearts were added in later to help people who were confused and had no idea what direction they should run in so logged off. There are gamers that unless they are pointed in a direction, wont explore at all. Sadly I was in GW2 beta and this was most gamers. Also that same set of gamers ran from heart to heart and missed 1/2 the content.
I'm with you both.. Deja vu all over again.. GW2's dynamic events became so predictable, we ran them like a big cycle.. We would do DE#1 (2 steps) then swing over and do DE#2 (3 steps).. By the time we completed DE#2, DE#1 was almost resetting and we would run it agian , and again and again.. Even Rift's zone events became predictable, because as with most things that are computer code, UNLESS you code it to be completely random, players will always find pattern, and exploit it.. I have yet to see anything in EQN shows me that isn't going to happen again.. Most of us heard all this before from Arenanet and Trion, I don't think SOE is going to be much different, but we'll see
As in my post above, Trion gave us just what they promises and did it well. SoE is telling us a different story.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Your post is not on topic, if you have something you would like to add to the conversation, we would love to hear it. Other then that, well you know...
But as previous posters have said, and I have said as well, Mobs are ONLY going to react to what is coded.. That code might be responding to the "data resource" they are instructed to go after. We players can't change the internal code of what that NPC likes and dislikes, but we can alter their interaction by effecting the data resource they desire such as "wealth" or "wood" or whatever it might be..
We are only saying that as much as SOE will be disguising that code, it is only a matter of time before players find out what it is and how to use it to their advantage.. That is one thing you can always count on with players.. = exploiting gaming code, it's as sure as death and taxes.. LOL
As I understand it, the difference between Storybricks and "traditional" NPC scripting is that Storybricks includes the ability to "learn".
That means that unlike the traditional static NPC scripts, the Storybricks behaviours can change dynamically based on what happens in the world. The database for the Storybricks scripts will influence which parts of the scripts are run, and how often, and the values in that database will get populated by actual events happening in the game world.
So if the Orcs of Blackwood Forest are continually being murdered by Elven player characters, then those Orc NPC's will develop a hatred for ALL Elven player characters, even though they may start out as neutral toward Elves. The developers could then, for example, decide to have a progressive ingame event that either resets the Orc hatred for Elves or reinforces it, depending on the event outcome.
So the degree of complexity for the NPC actions is not only dependent on "traditional" branching scripts, but also on ever-changing parameter values, depending on how many parameters are tracked in the Storybricks engine for each group of NPC's (or even significant single NPC's).
In a thread that has meandered from discussing a EQ:N developers video to the pre-launch hype of GW2, not much is really off-topic. How about taking the Nanfoodle-Rydeson debate to PMs, or make your own thread for that, and keep threads like this safely dead? When it pops to the top of the post list, it makes people think that something new pertaining to EQ:N.
edit: corrected a member's name.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
My thoughts and concerns exactly.
It sounds good when someone explains it to you and shows you a vision they have. It looks good when you're running a localized simulator, but it will be another thing when they try to implement this in a live national server.
The devs talked about depending on how players supported a faction they could build a castle/city just as I posted above. Right down to that same castle may not even be on another server because of player interaction. He also said later it could end up being a ruin. They even had pictures of it.
Your still off topic. If you want to send me advice send a PM where I can add you to a block list. Good day.
Yeah that's not how SB works at all. The NPC's are not only influenced by your character's past actions but also other character's actions and what is going on in the world. The devs have already stated it many times, if you play an alt you won't be able to replicate a previous character's experience because the world will have changed and the way the NPC's react to your new character will be different due to that. In other words, it's not scripted.
This and that changing world is because of SB and how it works with NPC and player interaction.
Take any system with randomized content based on multiple variables, and put it to the test with thousands of players acting upon it, and they will break it, or break it down.
Even the best laid plans can fall to ruin.
What I want: Good gameplay.
Storybricks are great on paper, and so are all the player influenced stuff, but since as a single player, it is VERY unlikely that I will have the effect that I want happen on an area, faction or outcome, I will settle with not being bored doing my thing, either in a group, or solo.
Give us the tools for macro development... but do not forget the fun content for the group and solo play.
Unfortunately, as of yet, combat is NOT optimal in this game, regardless of how good the AI or world is. Unless that changes, you will have this grandiose world, that is super interactive and never the same, but boring on the individual level, and hence... empty and a failure.
This is a very valid question.
This is different then any other MMO system? Its what gamers do best =-) Im sure they will get it mostly nailed down in Open Beta and then have to readjust come live. Something this big may even take months to work out after live. Again, how is even that different then any MMO launch?
Every NPC will but some with more options then others. But even the smallest goblin in the back of a very deep hole will have the drives of his race, class and maybe god at minimum and also how your chars actions may impact that NPC so it knows how to act around you.