You can make any game these days for basically nothing.. the cost of the computer you are going to do the work on and thats it. All software from the 3d modelling software to the game engine can be free.. of course then your time as well but if you are doing it in your spare time then the cost is really nothing..
Still yes if you want to make a game and work with a team of people that want to get paid then it will take money.. but again it all depends it can be very little or a lot..
Basically there is no set budget for making games it can be anything at all from next to nothing to multi millions of $ it all depends.
I bet Bungie is kicking themselves for not having consulted with you a couple years ago. Think of what they could have saved!
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Do I think gamers understand the cost of making an MMO? No, not in the least.
Do they need to? No, not in the least. A consumer doesn't care what it costs the product/service provider to offer their product/service. They only care that it meets expectations for the price they are willing to pay for it. I think that's the way it should be.
Should some of the armchair developers* on these forums try to do a bit of research before posting on this particular subject? That would be nice.
*Note: I am not referring to you, Darkcrystal
When said expectations are completely and utterly unreasonable, I think it would do (some) gamers good to do some reflective thinking and maybe lower said expectations or move on.
This forum would probably lose half it's visitor traffic as the result though... probably not a good idea for this site.
There are many millions of players who have expectations that are met by the industry. Millions of MMORPG players who have expectations that are met by the industry too. There are a small number of people who have unreasonable expectations, and those are the people who are going to post on forums, start blogs, etc. We can say that less than 10%* of the gaming population has unreasonable expectations because the idea that video games are just too expensive or that they do not meet the needs of the gaming population isn't a common one, otherwise people would stop buying video games. Every year more people buy video games than the year previous. It seems more like that video games are meeting the expectations and needs of players more every year.
I don't know what your point is. What I said only applies to people whose expectations aren't being met. There are not many of them, but they are all here wasting their time.
Why would knowing how much it costs to build a game change the expectations for those people? If they want something that's impossible, why would knowing one of the reasons why it is impossible change their mind? For that matter, they have access to the same information that the rest of us have. It doesn't seem to be helping.
You're right. It wouldn't change anything. It genuinely is a waste of time to try to explain anything to some of them.
Is this an "I agree with you post" or an "I am mocking you because you are the ironic example" post?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
You can make any game these days for basically nothing.. the cost of the computer you are going to do the work on and thats it. All software from the 3d modelling software to the game engine can be free.. of course then your time as well but if you are doing it in your spare time then the cost is really nothing..
Still yes if you want to make a game and work with a team of people that want to get paid then it will take money.. but again it all depends it can be very little or a lot..
Basically there is no set budget for making games it can be anything at all from next to nothing to multi millions of $ it all depends.
I bet Bungie is kicking themselves for not having consulted with you a couple years ago. Think of what they could have saved!
lol...now there is the best example of dollar to value ratio...
You can make any game these days for basically nothing.. the cost of the computer you are going to do the work on and thats it. All software from the 3d modelling software to the game engine can be free.. of course then your time as well but if you are doing it in your spare time then the cost is really nothing..
Still yes if you want to make a game and work with a team of people that want to get paid then it will take money.. but again it all depends it can be very little or a lot..
Basically there is no set budget for making games it can be anything at all from next to nothing to multi millions of $ it all depends.
I bet Bungie is kicking themselves for not having consulted with you a couple years ago. Think of what they could have saved!
lol...now there is the best example of dollar to value ratio...
no wait...its actually the worst
Unfortunately, the more money you spend, the smaller your dollar-to-value ratio is going to be. As for Destiny, I don't think Bungie is doing too badly. I'd say it would, probably, be somewhere in the ballpark of $150, though. You have to figure that Defiance cost $80. GTAV was like $200. So, all said and done, they're making like 4 or 5 times their money in the first month? Gross sales.
As for the yellow text above, I think that's pretty much, "Nuff said" about the OP subject. Unless they come up with an MMO Flappy Bird, it costing "Nearly Nothing" is ridiculous.
You can make any game these days for basically nothing.. the cost of the computer you are going to do the work on and thats it. All software from the 3d modelling software to the game engine can be free.. of course then your time as well but if you are doing it in your spare time then the cost is really nothing..
Still yes if you want to make a game and work with a team of people that want to get paid then it will take money.. but again it all depends it can be very little or a lot..
Basically there is no set budget for making games it can be anything at all from next to nothing to multi millions of $ it all depends.
I bet Bungie is kicking themselves for not having consulted with you a couple years ago. Think of what they could have saved!
lol...now there is the best example of dollar to value ratio...
no wait...its actually the worst
Unfortunately, the more money you spend, the smaller your dollar-to-value ratio is going to be. As for Destiny, I don't think Bungie is doing too badly. I'd say it would, probably, be somewhere in the ballpark of $150, though. You have to figure that Defiance cost $80. GTAV was like $200. So, all said and done, they're making like 4 or 5 times their money in the first month? Gross sales.
As for the yellow text above, I think that's pretty much, "Nuff said" about the OP subject. Unless they come up with an MMO Flappy Bird, it costing "Nearly Nothing" is ridiculous.
good points however from my understanding the profits posted is from sales to retailers which is profit however, if the retailers do not sell those boxes they will not be ordering any new ones.
never the less I think its true in gaming that the larger the budget the less dollar per value you get.
You can make any game these days for basically nothing.. the cost of the computer you are going to do the work on and thats it. All software from the 3d modelling software to the game engine can be free.. of course then your time as well but if you are doing it in your spare time then the cost is really nothing..
Still yes if you want to make a game and work with a team of people that want to get paid then it will take money.. but again it all depends it can be very little or a lot..
Basically there is no set budget for making games it can be anything at all from next to nothing to multi millions of $ it all depends.
I bet Bungie is kicking themselves for not having consulted with you a couple years ago. Think of what they could have saved!
lol...now there is the best example of dollar to value ratio...
no wait...its actually the worst
Unfortunately, the more money you spend, the smaller your dollar-to-value ratio is going to be. As for Destiny, I don't think Bungie is doing too badly. I'd say it would, probably, be somewhere in the ballpark of $150, though. You have to figure that Defiance cost $80. GTAV was like $200. So, all said and done, they're making like 4 or 5 times their money in the first month? Gross sales.
As for the yellow text above, I think that's pretty much, "Nuff said" about the OP subject. Unless they come up with an MMO Flappy Bird, it costing "Nearly Nothing" is ridiculous.
good points however from my understanding the profits posted is from sales to retailers which is profit however, if the retailers do not sell those boxes they will not be ordering any new ones.
never the less I think its true in gaming that the larger the budget the less dollar per value you get.
Destiny had retail sales of $325M in their first five days. This is compared to their own investment and the investment of Activision/Blizzard of $500M for the franchise (not just the one game).
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Do I think gamers understand the cost of making an MMO? No, not in the least.
Do they need to? No, not in the least. A consumer doesn't care what it costs the product/service provider to offer their product/service. They only care that it meets expectations for the price they are willing to pay for it. I think that's the way it should be.
Should some of the armchair developers* on these forums try to do a bit of research before posting on this particular subject? That would be nice.
*Note: I am not referring to you, Darkcrystal
When said expectations are completely and utterly unreasonable, I think it would do (some) gamers good to do some reflective thinking and maybe lower said expectations or move on.
This forum would probably lose half it's visitor traffic as the result though... probably not a good idea for this site.
There are many millions of players who have expectations that are met by the industry. Millions of MMORPG players who have expectations that are met by the industry too. There are a small number of people who have unreasonable expectations, and those are the people who are going to post on forums, start blogs, etc. We can say that less than 10%* of the gaming population has unreasonable expectations because the idea that video games are just too expensive or that they do not meet the needs of the gaming population isn't a common one, otherwise people would stop buying video games. Every year more people buy video games than the year previous. It seems more like that video games are meeting the expectations and needs of players more every year.
I don't know what your point is. What I said only applies to people whose expectations aren't being met. There are not many of them, but they are all here wasting their time.
Why would knowing how much it costs to build a game change the expectations for those people? If they want something that's impossible, why would knowing one of the reasons why it is impossible change their mind? For that matter, they have access to the same information that the rest of us have. It doesn't seem to be helping.
I already explained this, please read what I said. "I think it would do (some) gamers good to do some reflective thinking and maybe lower said expectations or move on." A part of this is knowing the true costs of what they're wishing for. It's not everything, and I wasn't even claiming it is. Why are you arguing about this?
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Do I think gamers understand the cost of making an MMO? No, not in the least.
Do they need to? No, not in the least. A consumer doesn't care what it costs the product/service provider to offer their product/service. They only care that it meets expectations for the price they are willing to pay for it. I think that's the way it should be.
Should some of the armchair developers* on these forums try to do a bit of research before posting on this particular subject? That would be nice.
*Note: I am not referring to you, Darkcrystal
When said expectations are completely and utterly unreasonable, I think it would do (some) gamers good to do some reflective thinking and maybe lower said expectations or move on.
This forum would probably lose half it's visitor traffic as the result though... probably not a good idea for this site.
There are many millions of players who have expectations that are met by the industry. Millions of MMORPG players who have expectations that are met by the industry too. There are a small number of people who have unreasonable expectations, and those are the people who are going to post on forums, start blogs, etc. We can say that less than 10%* of the gaming population has unreasonable expectations because the idea that video games are just too expensive or that they do not meet the needs of the gaming population isn't a common one, otherwise people would stop buying video games. Every year more people buy video games than the year previous. It seems more like that video games are meeting the expectations and needs of players more every year.
I don't know what your point is. What I said only applies to people whose expectations aren't being met. There are not many of them, but they are all here wasting their time.
Why would knowing how much it costs to build a game change the expectations for those people? If they want something that's impossible, why would knowing one of the reasons why it is impossible change their mind? For that matter, they have access to the same information that the rest of us have. It doesn't seem to be helping.
You're right. It wouldn't change anything. It genuinely is a waste of time to try to explain anything to some of them.
Is this an "I agree with you post" or an "I am mocking you because you are the ironic example" post?
I'm agreeing with you on the point that being more informed as to why things are/aren't done would not change a thing for some of the posters with unrealistic and unreasonable expectations.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Do I think gamers understand the cost of making an MMO? No, not in the least.
Do they need to? No, not in the least. A consumer doesn't care what it costs the product/service provider to offer their product/service. They only care that it meets expectations for the price they are willing to pay for it. I think that's the way it should be.
Should some of the armchair developers* on these forums try to do a bit of research before posting on this particular subject? That would be nice.
*Note: I am not referring to you, Darkcrystal
When said expectations are completely and utterly unreasonable, I think it would do (some) gamers good to do some reflective thinking and maybe lower said expectations or move on.
This forum would probably lose half it's visitor traffic as the result though... probably not a good idea for this site.
There are many millions of players who have expectations that are met by the industry. Millions of MMORPG players who have expectations that are met by the industry too. There are a small number of people who have unreasonable expectations, and those are the people who are going to post on forums, start blogs, etc. We can say that less than 10%* of the gaming population has unreasonable expectations because the idea that video games are just too expensive or that they do not meet the needs of the gaming population isn't a common one, otherwise people would stop buying video games. Every year more people buy video games than the year previous. It seems more like that video games are meeting the expectations and needs of players more every year.
I don't know what your point is. What I said only applies to people whose expectations aren't being met. There are not many of them, but they are all here wasting their time.
Why would knowing how much it costs to build a game change the expectations for those people? If they want something that's impossible, why would knowing one of the reasons why it is impossible change their mind? For that matter, they have access to the same information that the rest of us have. It doesn't seem to be helping.
I already explained this, please read what I said. "I think it would do (some) gamers good to do some reflective thinking and maybe lower said expectations or move on." A part of this is knowing the true costs of what they're wishing for. It's not everything, and I wasn't even claiming it is. Why are you arguing about this?
Why do you keep responding to my posts? Perhaps you should engage in some reflective thinking in regards to your expectations for my posts, and then either lower your expectations or move on.
Which is a round-a-bout way of noting that people very often just don't engage in reflective thinking. They want what they want. You want my arguments to make sense (*), and those gamers want games to fulfill their needs.
If developers are going to push the envelope, they have to have some of where the edge of the envelope is. Unreasonable expectations seem like a good place to put the edge of the envelope. There is going to be a conflict between what people want and what developers want to provide, but that conflict is necessary. It drives the players to look for that which will fulfill their needs and it drives developers to try and be the one to actually pushes past the edge of the envelope successfully. We need those loony players to tell us where the edge is, every bit as much as we need the "sheeple" to buy as many games as possible, accepting a large part of everything so that there is money to try and push the envelope.
* I will admit it's entirely possible my arguments haven't made sense. I haven't been paying that much attention to this to be honest. Sorry.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
If gamers understand the cost probably isn't the right question. The real sentiment is to get the gamers to WANT to care about the games they are spending money on. Or have them understand the work involved to make that "Free" to play game. Its as if nobody is satisfied until a game(or $ spent on a game) far exceed their already high expectations.
You can make any game these days for basically nothing.. the cost of the computer you are going to do the work on and thats it. All software from the 3d modelling software to the game engine can be free.. of course then your time as well but if you are doing it in your spare time then the cost is really nothing..
Still yes if you want to make a game and work with a team of people that want to get paid then it will take money.. but again it all depends it can be very little or a lot..
Basically there is no set budget for making games it can be anything at all from next to nothing to multi millions of $ it all depends.
I bet Bungie is kicking themselves for not having consulted with you a couple years ago. Think of what they could have saved!
lol...now there is the best example of dollar to value ratio...
no wait...its actually the worst
Unfortunately, the more money you spend, the smaller your dollar-to-value ratio is going to be. As for Destiny, I don't think Bungie is doing too badly. I'd say it would, probably, be somewhere in the ballpark of $150, though. You have to figure that Defiance cost $80. GTAV was like $200. So, all said and done, they're making like 4 or 5 times their money in the first month? Gross sales.
As for the yellow text above, I think that's pretty much, "Nuff said" about the OP subject. Unless they come up with an MMO Flappy Bird, it costing "Nearly Nothing" is ridiculous.
good points however from my understanding the profits posted is from sales to retailers which is profit however, if the retailers do not sell those boxes they will not be ordering any new ones.
never the less I think its true in gaming that the larger the budget the less dollar per value you get.
Exactly, so the risk/reward is actually drastically reduced the more money you put into it. Kind of contradictory to the idea of "You need to spend money to make money."
I really do hope that the ignorance around the whole subject of the cost of game development is actually understood at some point. I doubt it will be, but I hold out hope. I mean if we want a world made up of games like Candy Crush or Temple Run the, yes, I suppose games are very cost efficient to develop. If we're talking about doing really crazy, new, and innovative things, then you need to throw money at it.
Don't think you understand the real cost either. If you're making a MMO it goes through the roof late in development.
You're using a low cost engine or built your own because a main stream engine will cost you $300,000 to $500,000 or more when it is finished with all those bells and whistles.
Then there is the racks and servers. A basic server cluster will require as a minimum (given you do security checks and such and runs at 10 ticks a second) around 40 CPUs that will be capable of handling 1000 to 1200 CCU (about 50% of the subscriber base of which maybe 20% actually pay you to play if the game is free to play). Those servers cost around $400,000 to $500,000 up front if you buy decent machines.
I'll leave out buying property and or leasing space but that again is required to house the cluster.
Then there is bandwidth that gets applied. Bandwidth is not cheap. Someone has to pay for it somewhere down the line and average of 10 to 20K a sec on 1200 connections is going to run 1000 or more a month.
Better to make a single player with multi-player capabilities if you intend to break even.
Comments
I bet Bungie is kicking themselves for not having consulted with you a couple years ago. Think of what they could have saved!
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Is this an "I agree with you post" or an "I am mocking you because you are the ironic example" post?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
lol...now there is the best example of dollar to value ratio...
no wait...its actually the worst
Unfortunately, the more money you spend, the smaller your dollar-to-value ratio is going to be. As for Destiny, I don't think Bungie is doing too badly. I'd say it would, probably, be somewhere in the ballpark of $150, though. You have to figure that Defiance cost $80. GTAV was like $200. So, all said and done, they're making like 4 or 5 times their money in the first month? Gross sales.
As for the yellow text above, I think that's pretty much, "Nuff said" about the OP subject. Unless they come up with an MMO Flappy Bird, it costing "Nearly Nothing" is ridiculous.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
good points however from my understanding the profits posted is from sales to retailers which is profit however, if the retailers do not sell those boxes they will not be ordering any new ones.
never the less I think its true in gaming that the larger the budget the less dollar per value you get.
Destiny had retail sales of $325M in their first five days. This is compared to their own investment and the investment of Activision/Blizzard of $500M for the franchise (not just the one game).
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I already explained this, please read what I said. "I think it would do (some) gamers good to do some reflective thinking and maybe lower said expectations or move on." A part of this is knowing the true costs of what they're wishing for. It's not everything, and I wasn't even claiming it is. Why are you arguing about this?
I'm agreeing with you on the point that being more informed as to why things are/aren't done would not change a thing for some of the posters with unrealistic and unreasonable expectations.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Why do you keep responding to my posts? Perhaps you should engage in some reflective thinking in regards to your expectations for my posts, and then either lower your expectations or move on.
Which is a round-a-bout way of noting that people very often just don't engage in reflective thinking. They want what they want. You want my arguments to make sense (*), and those gamers want games to fulfill their needs.
If developers are going to push the envelope, they have to have some of where the edge of the envelope is. Unreasonable expectations seem like a good place to put the edge of the envelope. There is going to be a conflict between what people want and what developers want to provide, but that conflict is necessary. It drives the players to look for that which will fulfill their needs and it drives developers to try and be the one to actually pushes past the edge of the envelope successfully. We need those loony players to tell us where the edge is, every bit as much as we need the "sheeple" to buy as many games as possible, accepting a large part of everything so that there is money to try and push the envelope.
* I will admit it's entirely possible my arguments haven't made sense. I haven't been paying that much attention to this to be honest. Sorry.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
If gamers understand the cost probably isn't the right question. The real sentiment is to get the gamers to WANT to care about the games they are spending money on. Or have them understand the work involved to make that "Free" to play game. Its as if nobody is satisfied until a game(or $ spent on a game) far exceed their already high expectations.
Exactly, so the risk/reward is actually drastically reduced the more money you put into it. Kind of contradictory to the idea of "You need to spend money to make money."
I really do hope that the ignorance around the whole subject of the cost of game development is actually understood at some point. I doubt it will be, but I hold out hope. I mean if we want a world made up of games like Candy Crush or Temple Run the, yes, I suppose games are very cost efficient to develop. If we're talking about doing really crazy, new, and innovative things, then you need to throw money at it.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Don't think you understand the real cost either. If you're making a MMO it goes through the roof late in development.
You're using a low cost engine or built your own because a main stream engine will cost you $300,000 to $500,000 or more when it is finished with all those bells and whistles.
Then there is the racks and servers. A basic server cluster will require as a minimum (given you do security checks and such and runs at 10 ticks a second) around 40 CPUs that will be capable of handling 1000 to 1200 CCU (about 50% of the subscriber base of which maybe 20% actually pay you to play if the game is free to play). Those servers cost around $400,000 to $500,000 up front if you buy decent machines.
I'll leave out buying property and or leasing space but that again is required to house the cluster.
Then there is bandwidth that gets applied. Bandwidth is not cheap. Someone has to pay for it somewhere down the line and average of 10 to 20K a sec on 1200 connections is going to run 1000 or more a month.
Better to make a single player with multi-player capabilities if you intend to break even.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.