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Concerned

cprikcprik Member UncommonPosts: 38

Yes, I am especially concerned about how the classes are gonna work together in this game. Honestly, from what i could tell from SOE live this year when they showed off some of the new classes, it seems like there could be a problem. They have stated many times that they DO NOT want the game to be focused around spamming chat for tanks/heals, so they are making any class setup for PVE content viable. Even with the new AI, witch we have yet to actually see, the absence of the holy trinity might actually hurt social aspects and gameplay. It has been tried before as we all know (gw2) and not without it´s flaws.

Simply put quite harsh: i would rather have a hard time finding a tank and a healer than have a broken and boring zergfest.  

For example, they showed us how the cleric made X attack, wich heals friendlys and damages foes. He does not have to choose whether he wants to heal a friendly or damage a foe, he can do both at the same time. This worries me, because we see the same kind of support gameplay in GW2, wich imo just gets kind of spammy after a while and there is no sense of "ah, there i saved him, because i CHOSE to heal him instead of attacking the enemy" if you know what i mean..

anyway, i hope i am wrong about all this and the game turns out great! what do you guys think? are you concerned about this?

Comments

  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,567

    I'm very concerned about the combat. Those videos were missing the UI for one thing so I'm assuming the controls were the same as Landmarks current combat, ie spamming lmb/rmb.

    And I wasn't overly impressed with the Cleric animations either. There's so many other things in EQN that sound almost too good to be true, with the emergent AI, the Rallying Calls, the layered world, story bricks but the combat just looks bleh to me. It's a deal breaker.

     

    I really hope they make some major changes to the combat system but I doubt it. Another potentially great MMO down the tubes :(

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 7,774

    SoE devs promise its not GW2 combat but so far its the only MMO it reminds me of. I cant wait to see where it differs myself as does many EQ fans. You are not alone =)

     

    https://twitter.com/Nanfoodle_Smith/status/365512577532440577



  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,193


    Originally posted by Nanfoodle SoE devs promise its not GW2 combat but so far its the only MMO it reminds me of. I cant wait to see where it differs myself as does many EQ fans. You are not alone =)  
     

    They have stated that it is not like GW2 combat... but have not expressed how making the same design decisions have resulted in a differnt outcome. It is very likely that to most people it will play like GW2... but that the development team will insist that it is different because they dont want to see it.

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,089
    Originally posted by cprik

    Yes, I am especially concerned about how the classes are gonna work together in this game. Honestly, from what i could tell from SOE live this year when they showed off some of the new classes, it seems like there could be a problem. They have stated many times that they DO NOT want the game to be focused around spamming chat for tanks/heals, so they are making any class setup for PVE content viable. Even with the new AI, witch we have yet to actually see, the absence of the holy trinity might actually hurt social aspects and gameplay. It has been tried before as we all know (gw2) and not without it´s flaws.

    Simply put quite harsh: i would rather have a hard time finding a tank and a healer than have a broken and boring zergfest.  

    For example, they showed us how the cleric made X attack, wich heals friendlys and damages foes. He does not have to choose whether he wants to heal a friendly or damage a foe, he can do both at the same time. This worries me, because we see the same kind of support gameplay in GW2, wich imo just gets kind of spammy after a while and there is no sense of "ah, there i saved him, because i CHOSE to heal him instead of attacking the enemy" if you know what i mean..

    anyway, i hope i am wrong about all this and the game turns out great! what do you guys think? are you concerned about this?

    GW2 was still a social game for me. Those that chose to follow the zerg in PVE/PVP have no one to blame but themselves. My guild and group of regulars had fun although without them I found myself be a sheep as well. To me those are different issues.

    Telling a buddy they can't come because they aren't needed seems just as much a social problem as the other way around.

    So far the little combat they have shown does open up for zerging. Will the AI cause players to need to socialize, communicate, plan, work together? I can't say. Really boils down to how good the AI is and how content is designed. Which as you said, hasn't been shown yet. Smacking NPC dummies doesn't count and that's all we've seen.

    As far as "choosing" who you heal or not seems fairly vain, but I get it. We are all selfish and like to be the hero (despite everyone not wanting to be the game's hero). For me this goes with a different approach. Instead of having to be the taunt spammer, heal bot, or dps zombie, players have to look out for not only themselves but each other. Goal should be to keep everyone alive while killing the target or whatever the challenge is.

    If everyone does their part, should work out. Instead of "OMG you cast the crappy single HOT instead of the huge group heal and we all died!" (/kick from group). Should be "Okay, we screwed that up, lets try again, but lets do this...."

    I'm concerned that that the AI and combat won't mess well together, but that is simply because I've never seen it. It is very very easy to simply DPS spam if design allows it (GW2). If the AI/Mobs can actually heal, dodge, buff, and work together to be a bit more challenging then sacks of HPs, it could work. They've said mobs will have access to the same classes/skills as players so I have hope.

    GW2 is a poor example to compare to. Yes there are superficial similarities, but it lacks any sort of challenging AI and classes were built from the ground up with eSports in mind. PVP classes =/= PVE classes, which I hope EQN has.

     

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,089
    Originally posted by Superman0X

    They have stated that it is not like GW2 combat... but have not expressed how making the same design decisions have resulted in a differnt outcome. It is very likely that to most people it will play like GW2... but that the development team will insist that it is different because they dont want to see it.

    Beyond not having strict holy trinity classes, not much else the same between the two beyond action combat and small skill pool which aren't unique to GW2 or the genre for that matter.

    GW2's problem for me is that they made PVP classes for eSports. 1v1, 5v5 combat. Even in WvWvW, zerging is the best option as very little though is needed. Several of the "tricks" people thought up like Portal Bombs were nerfed I believe (haven't played in a long time). Simply aim at something and DPS away. PVE was an afterthought and it shows very clearly. Trinity or not, simply wasn't much challenge to be found in the PVE side.

    I'm hoping PVE content in EQN is a bit more complex (along the lines of MOBAs) where players have to work together vs various challenges not simply aim at single target, DPS down. Rather see 50 Orcs coming at me or mobs that flank/ambush and whatever else. I have some hope, but will believe it when I see it.

  • InfantryonlineInfantryonline Member Posts: 113

    Its DPS spam but your not guaranteed to land a hit. I never played gw2 but you guys describe it like it plays an FPS with auto aim or something. Because without tactics that's what it is. My concern is this might be like Landmark without weapon switching you still have roles and tactics if you play it that way in group battles, but its mindless. They need to reduce heroic movement or redo it where you don't spam jump. Throw in heals and CC and thats group battles in EQNext with much less character building + abilities. The Landmark omen is real.

     

    *Edit  Correct that. Everything is much slower (looking at the video) running, attacks, and you can't attack while moving. 3.5 seconds per swing, run speed in half. Its much different.

    ...That's essentially what being smug is. Acting like you're so blatantly right that even the thought of someone disagreeing with you is appallingly stupid and comical. you have a good chance of bullying them into believing you.

  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,633

    They say there is focus on making combat cooperative, but what that actually means we wont really get a glimpse of till hands on. 

    It could turn out a disaster of simple action based combat with oversaturated effects and stepping out of the red circles (nop not a fan of those). I personally hope eqn will take some of the great vanguard concepts, by which I mean how classes support eacother in a less strict trinity way.

    There is no doubt it will be action combat, they already said it would and showed it, but it could be they find some interesting form ofaction combat that is tactical and cooperative. Neverwinter combat is a good example for inspiration.

    Combat is sucha central part of a mmorpg that it will make people play or go away, so combat NEED to be fun and interesting for the target audience... If SoE knows their target audience or sit between two chairs, is going to be interesting to watch.

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    Originally posted by kjempff

    They say there is focus on making combat cooperative, but what that actually means we wont really get a glimpse of till hands on. 

    It could turn out a disaster of simple action based combat with oversaturated effects and stepping out of the red circles (nop not a fan of those). I personally hope eqn will take some of the great vanguard concepts, by which I mean how classes support eacother in a less strict trinity way.

    There is no doubt it will be action combat, they already said it would and showed it, but it could be they find some interesting form ofaction combat that is tactical and cooperative. Neverwinter combat is a good example for inspiration.

    Combat is sucha central part of a mmorpg that it will make people play or go away, so combat NEED to be fun and interesting for the target audience... If SoE knows their target audience or sit between two chairs, is going to be interesting to watch.

    Yeah between the I Can Be Anybody class system and the Combat they finally pushed me off the Fan wagon. I was willing to give it the benefit of the doubt til I tried the combat in Landmark and saw the depth of the suck.

    Much of EQNext is amazing, but the glaring mistake of their mouselook meets MOBA combat design is something I can't overlook.

    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
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