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Is the Everquest Franchise the biggest competitor to Blizzards mmo(s)?

13

Comments

  • AzzudyenAzzudyen Member UncommonPosts: 11
    I wish people would stop hyping this game. Everytime I hear more hype I just lose faith and think the overall product will come out flat.
  • InfantryonlineInfantryonline Member Posts: 113
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Infantryonline

     

    Yeah lets ignore the wow rebutals that couldn't come up with a decent informative counter-argument over facts and informed statements other than refusing to acknowlege the facts and projecting authority all over this thread. Now you inject some much needed intellectualism and fail to see that you don't progress logic that you fail to see you have no place. And im supposed to ignore the fact that you are doing what everyone WoW person is doing because you profress knowledge that really isn't knowledge but your own opinion?

    I am on your side with backing LM and EQN but I have to ask....

    WTF did you just say?

    It clearly says i was replying to dudeface. Sometimes you got read the original text in the box

    No, I think that he's literally asking wtf you just said. You're quite literally making about as much sense as a drunk uncle on Thanksgiving. After dinner. 

     

    Also, feel free to ignore actual valid, logical arguments that don't support your own agenda and continue on saying that everyone here are just wow fanboys. It really does help contribute to the ever-growing irony of your thread. 

    Yeah seeing how i responded to the first set of trolls ill make response now. Part 2.

    You act like WoW has some magical formula. You simply haven't played better games or games that challenged you. You knew the pradicament and went along for the ride because guess what? Its a wow clone. which never innovated past EQ but made the formula of EQ and better. WoW didn't clone any game other  than EQ. You responses are comical seeing how you act like you can't be touched when that you have no right to be touched. Well, guess what? Where the fuck do you think you are right now? You are on the internet. Its hilarious you think you can just stop all the clamor and be civil when you refuse to acknowlege what ive said before. So I force an argument for the sake of information being spread. This is the next step games should take. . Its not even should because its already being made. The movement is in an unstoppable motion lest Smedley gets killed. So heads up. This will COME your way in 2 years time than the whole atmosphere things will change. Hear that ? A new new MMO was released. They are usually Big Things for your game of choice. Say for instance, wow. So don't act like it won't affect things. companies will be changing their gears every time one of these releases. Its inevitable That Next releases and simply stated this will be a competitor to your mmo. Regardless of what you project user base. This is brand new to the genre. So 1 word answers like no are not welcomed. Sorry i dont give what is said here but to act like youre authority is ridiculous

    I've actually played a considerable number of games.  Quite possibly more than you. I don't think that WoW has a magical formula. I never said it did. In fact, they've got a LOT of room for improvement. Especially when it comes to content updates. That's evidenced by the fact that so many WoW subscribers play in 3 or 4 month spurts. I can't think of many who don't take time off to play other games. Simply because there's no more content. They need compelling reasons to log back in. Also, you're right, they don't "innovate" as some other games do. However, it doesn't really matter. They have the luxury of waiting to see what works and what doesn't. Also, in the end, as Dennis Leary once said "...and there aint a goddamn thing anybody can do about it, you know why? Because we've got the bombs! That's why, yeah!" And by bombs, I mean subscribers. 

     

    If you honestly feel like when EQN releases, 50% of WoW subscribers are going to simply up and leave like a mass exodus, you're delusional. Regardless of what WoW's subscriber numbers are at that point, 50% of the WoW population isn't leaving to go somewhere else. Honestly, you haven't the foggiest idea of how many subscribers they actually have. The last count was 7 million, but "subscriber" indicates the number of people who have paid for time in the last 30 days. That doesn't mean that's all of the unique users they have. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of people who have/will play WoW in 2014 will be somewhere in the arena of 10 million. 

     

    Even if WoW is dead and gone in 2 years, EQN will NOT have 50% of the subscribers. Do you want actual evidence? Look at Wildstar? Do you think that they honestly thought they'd be rolling servers a month after release? Probably not. 

     

    Also, as long as we're talking about reality, you're talking like EQN is the ONLY MMO that's being released in the next 2 years. There will be many other MMOs released (things like The Division comes to mind). So regardless how many subscribers leave WoW, the market itself is fragmenting on a monthly and annual basis. People are fighting for niches and slivers of market share to the point that they simply can't afford to run the game. 

     

    Oh, and as long as we're on the subject of contradiction, you even contradict your own arguments because you ask whether EQ Franchise IS the biggest competitor to WoW, which is fun because it's actually two contradictions in one. First, the current state of the EQ franchise isn't even registering in the top 10 competitors for WoW and, actually, WoW manages to make more money from it's cash shop than most games in the genre make from all revenue streams (but feel free to prove me wrong), so I wouldn't even call EQ a competitor at this point. Secondly, you're asserting that EQN will basically dethrone WoW and take all of their subscribers, but your title says it all, asking if the EQ franchise can manage to simply compete with WoW. 

     

    I'm not saying EQN won't be good. I think it will be good (I actually plan on playing it). I think it will probably be the biggest F2P earner on PS4 and I think that it will probably be a top 5 title in the genre. However, on the PC they do need to address performance issues if they want to maximize their success. 

     

    Honestly, I think you're trivializing WoW, which is possibly the worst thing you can possibly do. You look back at some of the biggest military losses in history, and it boils down to people underestimating their enemy. Look at Mike Tyson getting knocked out by Buster Douglas. 2 years is a drop in the pan for WoW, sorry. Even when WoW is gone, the market isn't moving to another, single, game, it's going to be fragmented. WoW is the exception, not the rule and, you're right, nobody CAN touch WoW. The only one that's going to kill WoW is WoW, and they'll do a fine job of that all on their own anyway. 

    WoWs subscriptions are dropping like flies. Its common sense a ten year old game is limited to what it can do because it is limited to the code it was originally prescribed. Thats why games CAN'T innovate beyond their former shell.You think EQ2 a game thats been out 10 years took a beating like it did with WoW chose to that fate when they wouldn't have to spend money on making Next and just upgrade EQ2 to rival becuase basically they are the same formulas. It can't so the WoW part of the battle is dead. WoW can't stand for the fight in its behalf. I mean, garrisons? You know how many genres EQ Next is borrowing from? I can successfully predict and win this argument using logic. I can already tell that it has a great chance of hitting 50% of your subscribers in time because. Well, WoW had 700,000 in its first fulll year after spending 60 million to EQ2s 12 million. I mean the thing that drives me crazy is if only it can run on a shitty computer. Being f2p. This isn't some puny mmo and not one relying on cutscene and other themepark tricks. This is a REAL sanbox with REAL content and quests in a REAL successfully implemented living and breathing world. By God they gave there npcs "emotions" 10000 hours of unscripted AI. But what you are missing in your calculation other than gauging your existing buddies and guessing "what would they do" in your mmo is what you can do in our world. You can change anything and thats an unseen mechanic that has not been forcasted on how much replay and immersion value but im guessing its enough to set it apart from current mmos FOR A LONG TIME. So while your pumping out your expansions you are one feature away (from Nexts part that is) from making questing, quest hubs, leveling, grinding, stats on items, linear storyline, tab target combat system, Obsolete and eventually going f2p and dying a very slow death...

    I mean, whats the choices for a new player? Pay 80+$ to play 12 year old game with 8 year old graphics for 2 months thats linear and meaningless grinds or play a new game with great graphics that you can play right away at any level and affect the story at level 3 and explore open world sandbox. There is no gimmick. What will attract players to this game is not the same from what would attrack a newer player. They just want to get out of the grind and endless quests that have no value and play something that wont cost them nothing that they can play for a year or 2 or what is projected to do absolutely EVERYTHING. And there is no gamebreaking feature that will stop you from playing the game unless you want to do something else. There are no guidlinnes of themepark you must follow in order to keep your head above water. So nothing unfun, nothing immersion breaking. The trinity doesn't even exist yet it won't stop people from playing what they proposed. If EQ Next launched tomorrow. I can see you already downloading it. This game will live and die by the first wave of player reviews. If they deem it a must get. It can be like Diablo 3 with 30 million hits. Thats the beauty of f2p. 

    ...That's essentially what being smug is. Acting like you're so blatantly right that even the thought of someone disagreeing with you is appallingly stupid and comical. you have a good chance of bullying them into believing you.

  • ThorkuneThorkune Member UncommonPosts: 1,969
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
     

    WoWs subscriptions are dropping like flies

    Update us on this after the WoD expansion launches. It has taken a population hit in the past couple years, but this next expansion has big changes that should bring a lot of people back.

  • ElandrialElandrial Member UncommonPosts: 178
    Originally posted by Konfess
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
    ...At this rate. Is WoW ready to be 3 million by the time EQ Next launches (or 2016)? They just have to lose 50% of what they lost last quarter sustained for 12 quarters. 

    Haha, they didn't loose a thing.  Gaming as a whole has lost.  Next's is compete with SWTOR for whales.  Next is only a threat to TOR.  And retry the action combat that TERA tried already?  MMORPG gamers who spend money don't care for twitch. 

    didn't lose a thing really in 2010 they had 12 m,it is now down to 6 m ,sorry they have been losing subs left and right.in 2012 they had a small upswing,but that was gone in a few months.

    http://www.statista.com/statistics/276601/number-of-world-of-warcraft-subscribers-by-quarter/

     

  • ElandrialElandrial Member UncommonPosts: 178
    Originally posted by Thorkune
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
     

    WoWs subscriptions are dropping like flies

    Update us on this after the WoD expansion launches. It has taken a population hit in the past couple years, but this next expansion has big changes that should bring a lot of people back.

    they said that ab out every expansion and it keeps dropping.

  • Gregor999Gregor999 Member Posts: 86
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
    Originally posted by Gregor999
    After combat was released in Landmark the only thing EQN will be competing with is Neverwinter.

    WoW pvp:        

     

    vs.      

     

    Landmark pvp:      

     

    Not sure what you were trying to prove there.

     

    That EQN combat looks like a poor mans cross between GW2 and Neverwinter. It's even more painful that you used a video of two WoW pvp'ers goofing off in the world arena(which no one ever does) to make whatever nonexistent point you were trying to make.

    Did you notice those players were level 70? The level is 90 these days bud.

     

    Please stop posting

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,807

    Excluding IP licensing conflicts, name one MMO that hurt another MMO (specifically due to a massive migration of players)?

    Even when I was still playing Anarchy Online (off and on) backe when SWTOR launched, I could tell that certain players left, but the rest of us just filled in the gap. Even an already dying game like AO was, for the most part, unaffected by another major launch.

  • ThorkuneThorkune Member UncommonPosts: 1,969
    Originally posted by Elandrial
    Originally posted by Thorkune
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
     

    WoWs subscriptions are dropping like flies

    Update us on this after the WoD expansion launches. It has taken a population hit in the past couple years, but this next expansion has big changes that should bring a lot of people back.

    they said that ab out every expansion and it keeps dropping.

    They've never introduced housing before. The only problem I ever had with WoW was boredom after I geared my character up after the newest expansion. With the new garrison system, I will now have something to do besides raid and explore. 

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,807
    Originally posted by Thorkune
    Originally posted by Elandrial
    Originally posted by Thorkune
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
     

    WoWs subscriptions are dropping like flies

    Update us on this after the WoD expansion launches. It has taken a population hit in the past couple years, but this next expansion has big changes that should bring a lot of people back.

    they said that ab out every expansion and it keeps dropping.

    They've never introduced housing before. The only problem I ever had with WoW was boredom after I geared my character up after the newest expansion. With the new garrison system, I will now have something to do besides raid and explore. 

    WoW is far from being in trouble, but I think its glory days are behind it.

  • BlackLightzBlackLightz Member UncommonPosts: 17

    "All this clever marketing for the fact that every 6 months from now World of Warcraft will lose  a million people and  Draenor being the same game that lost 900,000 in three months it won't stop bleeding so they see Everquest as a potential foe by the time Next launches."

     

    It must have been some serious weed you have been smoking. You take these numbers out of thin air. EQN will have minor impact on WoW. Like many other new MMO's. Its not that I wouldent like to see WoW have some competition. But right now, (and far future) its not gonne happen.

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Infantryonline

     

    Yeah lets ignore the wow rebutals that couldn't come up with a decent informative counter-argument over facts and informed statements other than refusing to acknowlege the facts and projecting authority all over this thread. Now you inject some much needed intellectualism and fail to see that you don't progress logic that you fail to see you have no place. And im supposed to ignore the fact that you are doing what everyone WoW person is doing because you profress knowledge that really isn't knowledge but your own opinion?

    I am on your side with backing LM and EQN but I have to ask....

    WTF did you just say?

    It clearly says i was replying to dudeface. Sometimes you got read the original text in the box

    No, I think that he's literally asking wtf you just said. You're quite literally making about as much sense as a drunk uncle on Thanksgiving. After dinner. 

     

    Also, feel free to ignore actual valid, logical arguments that don't support your own agenda and continue on saying that everyone here are just wow fanboys. It really does help contribute to the ever-growing irony of your thread. 

    Yeah seeing how i responded to the first set of trolls ill make response now. Part 2.

    You act like WoW has some magical formula. You simply haven't played better games or games that challenged you. You knew the pradicament and went along for the ride because guess what? Its a wow clone. which never innovated past EQ but made the formula of EQ and better. WoW didn't clone any game other  than EQ. You responses are comical seeing how you act like you can't be touched when that you have no right to be touched. Well, guess what? Where the fuck do you think you are right now? You are on the internet. Its hilarious you think you can just stop all the clamor and be civil when you refuse to acknowlege what ive said before. So I force an argument for the sake of information being spread. This is the next step games should take. . Its not even should because its already being made. The movement is in an unstoppable motion lest Smedley gets killed. So heads up. This will COME your way in 2 years time than the whole atmosphere things will change. Hear that ? A new new MMO was released. They are usually Big Things for your game of choice. Say for instance, wow. So don't act like it won't affect things. companies will be changing their gears every time one of these releases. Its inevitable That Next releases and simply stated this will be a competitor to your mmo. Regardless of what you project user base. This is brand new to the genre. So 1 word answers like no are not welcomed. Sorry i dont give what is said here but to act like youre authority is ridiculous

    I've actually played a considerable number of games.  Quite possibly more than you. I don't think that WoW has a magical formula. I never said it did. In fact, they've got a LOT of room for improvement. Especially when it comes to content updates. That's evidenced by the fact that so many WoW subscribers play in 3 or 4 month spurts. I can't think of many who don't take time off to play other games. Simply because there's no more content. They need compelling reasons to log back in. Also, you're right, they don't "innovate" as some other games do. However, it doesn't really matter. They have the luxury of waiting to see what works and what doesn't. Also, in the end, as Dennis Leary once said "...and there aint a goddamn thing anybody can do about it, you know why? Because we've got the bombs! That's why, yeah!" And by bombs, I mean subscribers. 

     

    If you honestly feel like when EQN releases, 50% of WoW subscribers are going to simply up and leave like a mass exodus, you're delusional. Regardless of what WoW's subscriber numbers are at that point, 50% of the WoW population isn't leaving to go somewhere else. Honestly, you haven't the foggiest idea of how many subscribers they actually have. The last count was 7 million, but "subscriber" indicates the number of people who have paid for time in the last 30 days. That doesn't mean that's all of the unique users they have. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of people who have/will play WoW in 2014 will be somewhere in the arena of 10 million. 

     

    Even if WoW is dead and gone in 2 years, EQN will NOT have 50% of the subscribers. Do you want actual evidence? Look at Wildstar? Do you think that they honestly thought they'd be rolling servers a month after release? Probably not. 

     

    Also, as long as we're talking about reality, you're talking like EQN is the ONLY MMO that's being released in the next 2 years. There will be many other MMOs released (things like The Division comes to mind). So regardless how many subscribers leave WoW, the market itself is fragmenting on a monthly and annual basis. People are fighting for niches and slivers of market share to the point that they simply can't afford to run the game. 

     

    Oh, and as long as we're on the subject of contradiction, you even contradict your own arguments because you ask whether EQ Franchise IS the biggest competitor to WoW, which is fun because it's actually two contradictions in one. First, the current state of the EQ franchise isn't even registering in the top 10 competitors for WoW and, actually, WoW manages to make more money from it's cash shop than most games in the genre make from all revenue streams (but feel free to prove me wrong), so I wouldn't even call EQ a competitor at this point. Secondly, you're asserting that EQN will basically dethrone WoW and take all of their subscribers, but your title says it all, asking if the EQ franchise can manage to simply compete with WoW. 

     

    I'm not saying EQN won't be good. I think it will be good (I actually plan on playing it). I think it will probably be the biggest F2P earner on PS4 and I think that it will probably be a top 5 title in the genre. However, on the PC they do need to address performance issues if they want to maximize their success. 

     

    Honestly, I think you're trivializing WoW, which is possibly the worst thing you can possibly do. You look back at some of the biggest military losses in history, and it boils down to people underestimating their enemy. Look at Mike Tyson getting knocked out by Buster Douglas. 2 years is a drop in the pan for WoW, sorry. Even when WoW is gone, the market isn't moving to another, single, game, it's going to be fragmented. WoW is the exception, not the rule and, you're right, nobody CAN touch WoW. The only one that's going to kill WoW is WoW, and they'll do a fine job of that all on their own anyway. 

    WoWs subscriptions are dropping like flies. Its common sense a ten year old game is limited to what it can do because it is limited to the code it was originally prescribed. Thats why games CAN'T innovate beyond their former shell.You think EQ2 a game thats been out 10 years took a beating like it did with WoW chose to that fate when they wouldn't have to spend money on making Next and just upgrade EQ2 to rival becuase basically they are the same formulas. It can't so the WoW part of the battle is dead. WoW can't stand for the fight in its behalf. I mean, garrisons? You know how many genres EQ Next is borrowing from? I can successfully predict and win this argument using logic. I can already tell that it has a great chance of hitting 50% of your subscribers in time because. Well, WoW had 700,000 in its first fulll year after spending 60 million to EQ2s 12 million. I mean the thing that drives me crazy is if only it can run on a shitty computer. Being f2p. This isn't some puny mmo and not one relying on cutscene and other themepark tricks. This is a REAL sanbox with REAL content and quests in a REAL successfully implemented living and breathing world. By God they gave there npcs "emotions" 10000 hours of unscripted AI. But what you are missing in your calculation other than gauging your existing buddies and guessing "what would they do" in your mmo is what you can do in our world. You can change anything and thats an unseen mechanic that has not been forcasted on how much replay and immersion value but im guessing its enough to set it apart from current mmos FOR A LONG TIME. So while your pumping out your expansions you are one feature away (from Nexts part that is) from making questing, quest hubs, leveling, grinding, stats on items, linear storyline, tab target combat system, Obsolete and eventually going f2p and dying a very slow death...

    I mean, whats the choices for a new player? Pay 80+$ to play 12 year old game with 8 year old graphics for 2 months thats linear and meaningless grinds or play a new game with great graphics that you can play right away at any level and affect the story at level 3 and explore open world sandbox. There is no gimmick. What will attract players to this game is not the same from what would attrack a newer player. They just want to get out of the grind and endless quests that have no value and play something that wont cost them nothing that they can play for a year or 2 or what is projected to do absolutely EVERYTHING. And there is no gamebreaking feature that will stop you from playing the game unless you want to do something else. There are no guidlinnes of themepark you must follow in order to keep your head above water. So nothing unfun, nothing immersion breaking. The trinity doesn't even exist yet it won't stop people from playing what they proposed. If EQ Next launched tomorrow. I can see you already downloading it. This game will live and die by the first wave of player reviews. If they deem it a must get. It can be like Diablo 3 with 30 million hits. Thats the beauty of f2p. 

    In an effort to go along with you and try for that award for longest post, I'll bite. 

     

    Now I know that you're obviously wearing a tinfoil hat and sitting in an institution. Here's why:

    1) You say WoW is dropping subscriptions like flies, but the general trend shows that even if they continued on this trend, they'd be at 5 million subscribers in 2 years. That's still 10 times the number of subscribers any other game currently has. 

    2) You keep saying words like "innovate", but if you take a look at the "innovative" MMORPGs, the majority are dead and gone. We've got things like LOTRO, Runescape, EQ, EQ2, SWTOR, all still kicking around. That's not to say that innovation isn't welcome, it is. However, innovation introduces considerable risk, also. Risk that many companies aren't willing to take, considering you're chasing a 30% share in the PC market which is already diluted, so we're talking about 5%? At most? Plus they're probably the most expensive game to make. 

    3) I think you might, maybe be trying to say EQ2 had 12 million subscribers? Or are you saying it cost 12 million dollars to make? If you're saying they had 12 million subscribers then I know you're just bat sh!t crazy. Other than that, I don't know what your point is. What? That WoW had more subscribers in it's first year than EQ2 did at it's peak? I'm not sure how you're winning with that.

    4) You're assuming that a sandbox game is what people want. There's no real proven sandbox MMO out there. The one that there was, SWG, is dead and gone. Sorry EVE peeps, your game is proven to be tested and true, but it's not really Fantasy so it doesn't count. So if EQN thinks that they're going to sail on boat loads of cash by targeting a niche market, they're already dead. They need to have mass appeal and that means creating themepark content for the people like WoW who want a themepark. There definitely isn't a Themepark movement to have WoW implement sandbox elements. Honestly, it's just too much work, and I've already levelled like 7 characters to 90, so I'd rather them not make me choose which 1 I would like to play the most, because since it's sandbox I'll only ever be able to manage a single character, time wise. 

    5) Another point on Sandboxes, is that there are other sandbox games which will be releasing before EQN. So they have a head start and, based on my experience, they are time sinks. So whatever market is there is further fragmented.

    6) Oh yeah, and there's one other factor that I have been forgetting about all this time. Wait, what was it again..? Oh yeah! Titan! So what is Titan? I don't know, you don't know. Does it even exist any more? I don't know, but if I remember correctly, at last check they had said that it would be pushed back until 2016, and then months after that it, apparently, didn't exist any more. Huh. Weird. Or maybe this will be the next-gen title that WoWheads are looking for, fully complete with destructable environments, open world, sandboxy features, etc. etc. Yeah, EQN, except WoWQN? Completely speculation, but if you think that Blizzard doesn't have a roadmap to deal with EQN, you're fooling youself. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • BurntCabbageBurntCabbage Member UncommonPosts: 482
    why are there soo many people fixed on killing wow or what kills wow next..wow will eventually slowly kill its self as its doing now..imo EQnext will flop in / on soo many lvls as it already has for me..but you cant tell a fan boy anything
  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,698
    I think that EQN would have been a bigger competitor if they hadnt gone the Disney route. Not saying that I wanted realistic graphics but after experiencing how the world looks and feels in PS2 I am really disappointed that I will not experience the world of EQ the same way.
  • InfantryonlineInfantryonline Member Posts: 113
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Infantryonline

     

    Yeah lets ignore the wow rebutals that couldn't come up with a decent informative counter-argument over facts and informed statements other than refusing to acknowlege the facts and projecting authority all over this thread. Now you inject some much needed intellectualism and fail to see that you don't progress logic that you fail to see you have no place. And im supposed to ignore the fact that you are doing what everyone WoW person is doing because you profress knowledge that really isn't knowledge but your own opinion?

    I am on your side with backing LM and EQN but I have to ask....

    WTF did you just say?

    It clearly says i was replying to dudeface. Sometimes you got read the original text in the box

    No, I think that he's literally asking wtf you just said. You're quite literally making about as much sense as a drunk uncle on Thanksgiving. After dinner. 

     

    Also, feel free to ignore actual valid, logical arguments that don't support your own agenda and continue on saying that everyone here are just wow fanboys. It really does help contribute to the ever-growing irony of your thread. 

    Yeah seeing how i responded to the first set of trolls ill make response now. Part 2.

    You act like WoW has some magical formula. You simply haven't played better games or games that challenged you. You knew the pradicament and went along for the ride because guess what? Its a wow clone. which never innovated past EQ but made the formula of EQ and better. WoW didn't clone any game other  than EQ. You responses are comical seeing how you act like you can't be touched when that you have no right to be touched. Well, guess what? Where the fuck do you think you are right now? You are on the internet. Its hilarious you think you can just stop all the clamor and be civil when you refuse to acknowlege what ive said before. So I force an argument for the sake of information being spread. This is the next step games should take. . Its not even should because its already being made. The movement is in an unstoppable motion lest Smedley gets killed. So heads up. This will COME your way in 2 years time than the whole atmosphere things will change. Hear that ? A new new MMO was released. They are usually Big Things for your game of choice. Say for instance, wow. So don't act like it won't affect things. companies will be changing their gears every time one of these releases. Its inevitable That Next releases and simply stated this will be a competitor to your mmo. Regardless of what you project user base. This is brand new to the genre. So 1 word answers like no are not welcomed. Sorry i dont give what is said here but to act like youre authority is ridiculous

    I've actually played a considerable number of games.  Quite possibly more than you. I don't think that WoW has a magical formula. I never said it did. In fact, they've got a LOT of room for improvement. Especially when it comes to content updates. That's evidenced by the fact that so many WoW subscribers play in 3 or 4 month spurts. I can't think of many who don't take time off to play other games. Simply because there's no more content. They need compelling reasons to log back in. Also, you're right, they don't "innovate" as some other games do. However, it doesn't really matter. They have the luxury of waiting to see what works and what doesn't. Also, in the end, as Dennis Leary once said "...and there aint a goddamn thing anybody can do about it, you know why? Because we've got the bombs! That's why, yeah!" And by bombs, I mean subscribers. 

     

    If you honestly feel like when EQN releases, 50% of WoW subscribers are going to simply up and leave like a mass exodus, you're delusional. Regardless of what WoW's subscriber numbers are at that point, 50% of the WoW population isn't leaving to go somewhere else. Honestly, you haven't the foggiest idea of how many subscribers they actually have. The last count was 7 million, but "subscriber" indicates the number of people who have paid for time in the last 30 days. That doesn't mean that's all of the unique users they have. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of people who have/will play WoW in 2014 will be somewhere in the arena of 10 million. 

     

    Even if WoW is dead and gone in 2 years, EQN will NOT have 50% of the subscribers. Do you want actual evidence? Look at Wildstar? Do you think that they honestly thought they'd be rolling servers a month after release? Probably not. 

     

    Also, as long as we're talking about reality, you're talking like EQN is the ONLY MMO that's being released in the next 2 years. There will be many other MMOs released (things like The Division comes to mind). So regardless how many subscribers leave WoW, the market itself is fragmenting on a monthly and annual basis. People are fighting for niches and slivers of market share to the point that they simply can't afford to run the game. 

     

    Oh, and as long as we're on the subject of contradiction, you even contradict your own arguments because you ask whether EQ Franchise IS the biggest competitor to WoW, which is fun because it's actually two contradictions in one. First, the current state of the EQ franchise isn't even registering in the top 10 competitors for WoW and, actually, WoW manages to make more money from it's cash shop than most games in the genre make from all revenue streams (but feel free to prove me wrong), so I wouldn't even call EQ a competitor at this point. Secondly, you're asserting that EQN will basically dethrone WoW and take all of their subscribers, but your title says it all, asking if the EQ franchise can manage to simply compete with WoW. 

     

    I'm not saying EQN won't be good. I think it will be good (I actually plan on playing it). I think it will probably be the biggest F2P earner on PS4 and I think that it will probably be a top 5 title in the genre. However, on the PC they do need to address performance issues if they want to maximize their success. 

     

    Honestly, I think you're trivializing WoW, which is possibly the worst thing you can possibly do. You look back at some of the biggest military losses in history, and it boils down to people underestimating their enemy. Look at Mike Tyson getting knocked out by Buster Douglas. 2 years is a drop in the pan for WoW, sorry. Even when WoW is gone, the market isn't moving to another, single, game, it's going to be fragmented. WoW is the exception, not the rule and, you're right, nobody CAN touch WoW. The only one that's going to kill WoW is WoW, and they'll do a fine job of that all on their own anyway. 

    WoWs subscriptions are dropping like flies. Its common sense a ten year old game is limited to what it can do because it is limited to the code it was originally prescribed. Thats why games CAN'T innovate beyond their former shell.You think EQ2 a game thats been out 10 years took a beating like it did with WoW chose to that fate when they wouldn't have to spend money on making Next and just upgrade EQ2 to rival becuase basically they are the same formulas. It can't so the WoW part of the battle is dead. WoW can't stand for the fight in its behalf. I mean, garrisons? You know how many genres EQ Next is borrowing from? I can successfully predict and win this argument using logic. I can already tell that it has a great chance of hitting 50% of your subscribers in time because. Well, WoW had 700,000 in its first fulll year after spending 60 million to EQ2s 12 million. I mean the thing that drives me crazy is if only it can run on a shitty computer. Being f2p. This isn't some puny mmo and not one relying on cutscene and other themepark tricks. This is a REAL sanbox with REAL content and quests in a REAL successfully implemented living and breathing world. By God they gave there npcs "emotions" 10000 hours of unscripted AI. But what you are missing in your calculation other than gauging your existing buddies and guessing "what would they do" in your mmo is what you can do in our world. You can change anything and thats an unseen mechanic that has not been forcasted on how much replay and immersion value but im guessing its enough to set it apart from current mmos FOR A LONG TIME. So while your pumping out your expansions you are one feature away (from Nexts part that is) from making questing, quest hubs, leveling, grinding, stats on items, linear storyline, tab target combat system, Obsolete and eventually going f2p and dying a very slow death...

    I mean, whats the choices for a new player? Pay 80+$ to play 12 year old game with 8 year old graphics for 2 months thats linear and meaningless grinds or play a new game with great graphics that you can play right away at any level and affect the story at level 3 and explore open world sandbox. There is no gimmick. What will attract players to this game is not the same from what would attrack a newer player. They just want to get out of the grind and endless quests that have no value and play something that wont cost them nothing that they can play for a year or 2 or what is projected to do absolutely EVERYTHING. And there is no gamebreaking feature that will stop you from playing the game unless you want to do something else. There are no guidlinnes of themepark you must follow in order to keep your head above water. So nothing unfun, nothing immersion breaking. The trinity doesn't even exist yet it won't stop people from playing what they proposed. If EQ Next launched tomorrow. I can see you already downloading it. This game will live and die by the first wave of player reviews. If they deem it a must get. It can be like Diablo 3 with 30 million hits. Thats the beauty of f2p. 

    In an effort to go along with you and try for that award for longest post, I'll bite. 

     

    Now I know that you're obviously wearing a tinfoil hat and sitting in an institution. Here's why:

    1) You say WoW is dropping subscriptions like flies, but the general trend shows that even if they continued on this trend, they'd be at 5 million subscribers in 2 years. That's still 10 times the number of subscribers any other game currently has. 

    2) You keep saying words like "innovate", but if you take a look at the "innovative" MMORPGs, the majority are dead and gone. We've got things like LOTRO, Runescape, EQ, EQ2, SWTOR, all still kicking around. That's not to say that innovation isn't welcome, it is. However, innovation introduces considerable risk, also. Risk that many companies aren't willing to take, considering you're chasing a 30% share in the PC market which is already diluted, so we're talking about 5%? At most? Plus they're probably the most expensive game to make. 

    3) I think you might, maybe be trying to say EQ2 had 12 million subscribers? Or are you saying it cost 12 million dollars to make? If you're saying they had 12 million subscribers then I know you're just bat sh!t crazy. Other than that, I don't know what your point is. What? That WoW had more subscribers in it's first year than EQ2 did at it's peak? I'm not sure how you're winning with that.

    4) You're assuming that a sandbox game is what people want. There's no real proven sandbox MMO out there. The one that there was, SWG, is dead and gone. Sorry EVE peeps, your game is proven to be tested and true, but it's not really Fantasy so it doesn't count. So if EQN thinks that they're going to sail on boat loads of cash by targeting a niche market, they're already dead. They need to have mass appeal and that means creating themepark content for the people like WoW who want a themepark. There definitely isn't a Themepark movement to have WoW implement sandbox elements. Honestly, it's just too much work, and I've already levelled like 7 characters to 90, so I'd rather them not make me choose which 1 I would like to play the most, because since it's sandbox I'll only ever be able to manage a single character, time wise. 

    5) Another point on Sandboxes, is that there are other sandbox games which will be releasing before EQN. So they have a head start and, based on my experience, they are time sinks. So whatever market is there is further fragmented.

    6) Oh yeah, and there's one other factor that I have been forgetting about all this time. Wait, what was it again..? Oh yeah! Titan! So what is Titan? I don't know, you don't know. Does it even exist any more? I don't know, but if I remember correctly, at last check they had said that it would be pushed back until 2016, and then months after that it, apparently, didn't exist any more. Huh. Weird. Or maybe this will be the next-gen title that WoWheads are looking for, fully complete with destructable environments, open world, sandboxy features, etc. etc. Yeah, EQN, except WoWQN? Completely speculation, but if you think that Blizzard doesn't have a roadmap to deal with EQN, you're fooling youself. 

    Reverse order. Titan is team fortress 2 meets wow. Yeah they cockblock, sandbox+f2p meant alot for ArcheAge, same with Next, Everquest at least had almost a million subscribers at 2000. I still play Everquest 2 because i like the systems they have within the game. Best value f2p with only AA limited with free model. Same with Everquest actually, the free model just disables AA gain. EQNext has to absolutely innovate. It would be a disaster if they had action combat and went tab targeting. WoW spent 200 million for all the content and servers from launch till 2009. They knew they were going to make money. Dave Georgeson the director of developement for Everquest franchise says this is the last game he will have to make which means they already calculated success.

    ...That's essentially what being smug is. Acting like you're so blatantly right that even the thought of someone disagreeing with you is appallingly stupid and comical. you have a good chance of bullying them into believing you.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,807
    I don't even think EQN is looking at competing with WoW in the same market. Looks to me like EQN is going in a different direction.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Originally posted by Infantryonline

    Reverse order. Titan is team fortress 2 meets wow. Yeah they cockblock, sandbox+f2p meant alot for ArcheAge, same with Next, Everquest at least had almost a million subscribers at 2000. I still play Everquest 2 because i like the systems they have within the game. Best value f2p with only AA limited with free model. Same with Everquest actually, the free model just disables AA gain. EQNext has to absolutely innovate. It would be a disaster if they had action combat and went tab targeting. WoW spent 200 million for all the content and servers from launch till 2009. They knew they were going to make money. Dave Georgeson the director of developement for Everquest franchise says this is the last game he will have to make which means they already calculated success.

    This might be the most sane thing you said all day. 

     

    If EQN is quality, and if they choose a hybrid model (like EQ2) then I think it could be huge. Actually, if they bundle this as part of their All Access pass, along with H1Z1 and, possibly, Landmark, I will be a subscriber. If this isn't part of All Access, then I might not subscribe. It'll be more a wait and see. 

     

    Yeah, you're probably right, This will be Dave Georgeson's last game. It'll either be a huge success, or he'll be fired and shot out of the SOE offices in a cannon. Really, though, once their new titles come along, it makes their All Access so much more attractive. Plus, I can just let my kids bomb around on whatever games I'm not interested in playing. 

    Crazkanuk

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    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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  • MaelwyddMaelwydd Member Posts: 1,123
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    I don't even think EQN is looking at competing with WoW in the same market. Looks to me like EQN is going in a different direction.

    They have stated on numerous the 'WOW killer' argument is a false flag.

    They have a very specific goal and that is the re-invent the genre and get out of the rut that the industry has been in for the last 10 or so years. So if you want to get out of a rut you can't keep doing the same thing. And their design is looking to radically change how the MMO works.

    It will not be for everyone, it isn't even being designed to tempt old EQ/EQ2 players (why should they, those guys have EQ/EQ2 already) but is being design for the next generation of MMO player, hence the name EQ Next.

    And OP, please try punctuation and the occasional line break. I am on your side but you posts are just nonsensical and a mess.

  • HarikenHariken Member RarePosts: 2,446
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
    Anyone who doesn't think EQNext can challenge WoW  is just kidding themselves. We have Emergent AI and formidable dev team. You have a legion of idiots who just say "No!" who won't eat the peas with the carrots. Good luck being the "weirdo" in two years. I hope your headphones can block off the ridicule when your in panda cartoon land or orc cartoon land. I hope Blizzard makes warcraft 4 and stops fuckin with the kids already. Its going to be embarrassing when these philosophies go head to head. We're gonna make old timers out of little boys. Somebody's got to cater to their interests though. Blizzard is going to be the only game company that stoops low enough because noone else will. You might as well give your future money to them now. So if and when you retire late. Someone is always there to take your money. We know that. I know you "hardcore" marxists would enjoy that. But before i leave let me say one thing. Welcome to capitalism..........lol

    The irony in that statement is very thick.

    It just show wishful hoping on his part. Its really sad when any new game gets so much hype, People just blindly fall into it.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979

    Draenor will release, WoW numbers will go up. Then they'll fall back down. New expac will be announced and then release, numbers will go up, and then they will go down...

    Other MMOs launching hasn't had too much effect on WoW over the last 10 years.

    People go, some for good, some come back, some new players pop up, etc.

    Only real threat to WoW is WoW 2 or whatever Blizzards next MMO project will be (if they are even going to do another MMO)

  • KonfessKonfess Member RarePosts: 1,667
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Konfess
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
    ...At this rate. Is WoW ready to be 3 million by the time EQ Next launches (or 2016)? They just have to lose 50% of what they lost last quarter sustained for 12 quarters. 

    Haha, they didn't loose a thing.  Gaming as a whole has lost.  Next's is compete with SWTOR for whales.  Next is only a threat to TOR.  And retry the action combat that TERA tried already?  MMORPG gamers who spend money don't care for twitch. 

    Gaming hasn't lost. MMO gaming might be losing numbers, but MOBA gaming is picking them up. Games that offer single, multi, and coop play are picking them up. MMOs don't have exclusive rights to online gaming anymore. There are lot of options out there and people are choosing those.

    People can play Assassin's Creed, Borderlands 2, Skyrim, Civilization, Farcry, and can do that with friends and family and don't have to put up with MMO gamers calling them a filthy casual or noob. They don't have to put with raids or guilds controlling how they play and what they do.

    Nope, everything about your first statement is wrong.  The games and genre are doing fine, but they are falling way short of projections in a healthy economy.  Our understanding is that as the world population continues to grow, the gaming population is not growing at its past rate.  It plateaued and is now on a decline, that is evident to those who are watching it.  You are only aware of it, in the nature of the recent trend of money grab from DLCs and cash shops.  Developer see and feel the lost gamers and they are panicking.  Every day they ask, “How can we make up for the lost gamers, and how do we get the few remaining to spend more?”

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
    Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
    It costs money to play.  Therefore P2W.

  • KonfessKonfess Member RarePosts: 1,667
    Originally posted by Elandrial
    Originally posted by Konfess
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
    ...At this rate. Is WoW ready to be 3 million by the time EQ Next launches (or 2016)? They just have to lose 50% of what they lost last quarter sustained for 12 quarters. 

    Haha, they didn't loose a thing.  Gaming as a whole has lost.  Next's is compete with SWTOR for whales.  Next is only a threat to TOR.  And retry the action combat that TERA tried already?  MMORPG gamers who spend money don't care for twitch. 

    didn't lose a thing really in 2010 they had 12 m,it is now down to 6 m ,sorry they have been losing subs left and right.in 2012 they had a small upswing,but that was gone in a few months.

    http://www.statista.com/statistics/276601/number-of-world-of-warcraft-subscribers-by-quarter/

     

    Now realize this every publisher has seen an equivalent drop based on their market share.  They are all pissing their pants over it.  They are all hunting whales, and I suspect driving them to extinction fast.

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
    Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
    It costs money to play.  Therefore P2W.

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    Blizzard is going to do the same thing they did to SOE last time, they will produce a product that is better at garnering and keeping players.
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • MaelwyddMaelwydd Member Posts: 1,123
    Originally posted by Archlyte
    Blizzard is going to do the same thing they did to SOE last time, they will produce a product that is better at garnering and keeping players.

    Perhaps they will.

    But if it is anything like WOW, dumbed down and made for the lowest common denominator, I will spend another 10 years playing better games.

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Archlyte
    Blizzard is going to do the same thing they did to SOE last time, they will produce a product that is better at garnering and keeping players.

    Perhaps they will.

    But if it is anything like WOW, dumbed down and made for the lowest common denominator, I will spend another 10 years playing better games.

    I agree. I never played WoW because of its design and appearance. SOE seems to be trying to beat them at that game so maybe Blizzard will release some realistic looking MMO that has the same features as EQNext. Business is war.

    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • IsilithTehrothIsilithTehroth Member UncommonPosts: 503
    Originally posted by Konfess
    Originally posted by Elandrial
    Originally posted by Konfess
    Originally posted by Infantryonline
    ...At this rate. Is WoW ready to be 3 million by the time EQ Next launches (or 2016)? They just have to lose 50% of what they lost last quarter sustained for 12 quarters. 

    Haha, they didn't loose a thing.  Gaming as a whole has lost.  Next's is compete with SWTOR for whales.  Next is only a threat to TOR.  And retry the action combat that TERA tried already?  MMORPG gamers who spend money don't care for twitch. 

    didn't lose a thing really in 2010 they had 12 m,it is now down to 6 m ,sorry they have been losing subs left and right.in 2012 they had a small upswing,but that was gone in a few months.

    http://www.statista.com/statistics/276601/number-of-world-of-warcraft-subscribers-by-quarter/

     

    Now realize this every publisher has seen an equivalent drop based on their market share.  They are all pissing their pants over it.  They are all hunting whales, and I suspect driving them to extinction fast.

    They are losing players because everyone is tired of the same game with a different skin. People have stopped playing mmos all together, nomading from mmo to mmo, or are waiting for a change in the market. Players want the abilities, consequences and features of the old mmorgs(Ala SWG, UO),but want new features such as intelligent AI, Fps combat, terraforming and graphics. As such there is a division on player looting vs non player looting, but is becoming more and more irrelevant as players are getting more accustom to such things from other games such as Dayz ect, although I fell that hardcore aspect will never be mainstream for mmos.

    The problem with sandbox games these days is that they focus on one aspect such as pvpers or crafters, but in order to have a full fledged thriving community and a game that will hold players for years, there needs to be equal focus on all aspects; from explorers to crafters.

    Huge improvements to this stagnant genre will yield the best gains in my opinion and once a company does this they will have huge success perhaps close to WoW, but then again that was a fluke since few mmos were out at the time and the practicality of the game itself, as well as swaths of new video gamers players being introduced as the time

    ---------------------------

    My ideal mmo would be one that incorporates elements of various mmos.

    SWG- The atmosphere, community, sandbox features and general carve your own role aspects.

    Uo- The community, sandbox features like housing and books, full loot pvp inventory system and being able to impact the game world.

    Darkfall online- The combat, territory control, full loot, mounted combat, inventory system, ship battles, metagame element, and race alliance battles.

    WoW- Easy of use and polish.

    Runescape- The questing system, full loot combat, sandbox elements such as treasure hunting, skill point allotment, item value and the community (it had at one point).

    Mortal online- The crafting system, combat system(Mount and blade or Chivalry medieval warfare would be best), territory warfare.

    EQ-Next- Voxel based terraforming and AI(Although I doubt the AI will be any different than what we are accustomed to)

    An aspect I'd like to see is a map-less game where players actually have to cartographic the area via in game tools, which they can use for either to hold onto for their clans/allies, sell to the highest bidders or make public knowledge; it would make explorers have purpose and give a real mysterious and lively feel to the game world. I'd like people to want to keep game secrets such as a formula to make an exceptional weapon to themselves and their allies instead of having everything leaked out and readily available on websites(I know its impossible), since generally the first months of a launch when players don't know much about a game are usually the best experiences and most fun.

    A world where there is risk vs reward, kingdoms, player elected officials such as mayors and kings, war,  and strife. Where people can help build a thriving city where they can sell their goods, be a peace keeper, innkeeper, story teller, artist or novelist selling their goods that can be spread throughout the world or bandits praying on the weak. My ideal world would be pvp anywhere no exceptions and governed by the players, however there would be dire consequences for those who commit evils and unlike most mmos with pvp in them based around the sheep rather than the wolves.

    It would be hardcore in every since except for a huge grind and permadeath where player skill would be top of everything from pvp to crafting. However I doubt any such game will ever be made since casuals are catered to the most.

    MurderHerd

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