Originally posted by bcbully I feel like term has been hijacked. Attunement, it used to mean you have to beat this encounter in order to move on to that encounter. Not you have to grind this much rep in order to try that encounter.
This is my understanding of attunement as well. I always thought of it as meaning that you have to beat X dungeon/ encounter before you are eligible to move onto Y dungeon/ encounter. Not that you have to beat X dungeon/ encounter over and over and over again until you are bored beyond forbearance in what is basically content padding and a needless timesink.
Originally posted by bcbully I feel like term has been hijacked. Attunement, it used to mean you have to beat this encounter in order to move on to that encounter. Not you have to grind this much rep in order to try that encounter.
I didn't have an issue with some of the attunement processes back in old TBC. I recall doing the Kara pre quest series to get the key to enter the place. It wasn't so bad and for the most part, I could solo most of it in an afternoon. Got a nice starter (upgradeable) epic ring from it too. After that, it was more about the order in which you raided, It was meant to prevent players from entering the raid, struggling with one encounter and skipping it and jumping from boss to boss in hopes of getting lucky and maybe some gear to go back and beat the previous boss you were probably undergeared for in the 1st place.
But by the time MoP rolled around, where you needed rep only obtainable in raids just to spend your raid currency?
What? I'm exalted with a particular faction, but the splinter faction that is inside the raid doesn't know who I am?
they got the sub money, theyre gonna keep it sub to milk as much more money as they can before enough people catch on to their scheme. once its low enough they will probably implement a F2P model, but by then it will be too late...
looks like the President of the company's already stepping down and leaving , "Take the money and run" style..
but dont take my word for it.. heres the official article
People hate Wildstar because it will be going B2P/F2P within a year of launch. Of course you can ask "how do you know?" "Where the proof?" but I dont have to provide any proof, its just patterns. Wildstar isn't special. Tera has the same way to get sub time via ingame long before wildstar was created and still went f2p. So again, nothing is special about Wildstar, this means it can't escape the previous paths its predecessors ended up following. I dont really care either way about the game. I tried the trial, didn't make it past a hour before uninstalling and I'm happy I didn't waste 60$ on it.
I think there is more to it. The hate has been going on for a while now.
It's because degenerate people love to see things fail & fall. Kind of like when people love to see famous people fall from grace.
Most of the posters in all those hate threads (with their opinions about why the game failed) never even played the game. You can tell by their absurd statements & made up facts. Ask for proof on any of their ridiculous "facts" and they stay shut or disappear. They are just trolls.
I don't hate Wildstar, I had a great time leveling with friends, and enjoyed myself despite the annoying bugs. What made me leave was the rushed PVP season, and the exploits in PVP matches. And just like any e-sport game, once the competition leaves, even those enjoying the game will leave since there is no1 worthy to play against.
What the hell you going on here about? what made up facts? all i see is talk of low population mostly and end game which fails to attract hardcore players and alienates casuals.
And wildstar first has to reach that level of famous before you start comparing it to the fall from grace of famous people.
In other topic you asked for Blizzard statement regarding minority of their player base doing end game raiding and you got it. Now if you wilfully ignore it then it is another problem all together.
You ask for factual statement but when shown it to you..you ignore it.
Been a member of these forums for 10 yrs or so I've seen my fair share of hate threads. For some reason Wildstar seems to have more than its fair share but why? Ive played every major MMO since EverQuest in 97 and honestly Wildstar is among the better of them. Is it
Agreed.
WoW: Great in the early years til they dumbed it down.
Did not like many of this dumbing down ... but at the end I have adapted as Wow is still - for me at least - best game of all times and al genres.
Aion: Bot infested waste of space.
True, more than all other games put together.
WaR: Fun game was sad to see it go.
Agreed, wanted to return some day. Only game where I enjoyed pvp scenarios a lot.
GW2: Nice graphics but a fail game.
For me very fun and active combat, limited toolbar (which I really hate) but with various weapons actually not at all and very fun. I'm not returning mainly because I did not like at the end "innovative" questing of theirs. Would still play if they would have classic questing and progress.
FFXIV: Great graphics, fun game but lacking Endgame.
Wish that would be only problem.
Wildstar: Cartoony Graphics, Great combat system and a lot of Endgame.
Agreed. But that 1 toolbar is just too much for me. Main reason I left probably permanently. Same as for TSW. Removed that limitation would gladly return.
Honestly in my opinion I think what hurt Wildstar the most was WoW. Not in the way you think. WoW hurt the entire MMO genre because it made players lazy. You could face roll any and all content in WoW, so when
Not really. Most complex and complete game experience where nearly every of that zillion of spells can be used at some time and place.
Wildstar came out it was a challenge players couldn't master.
I see it on a daily basis. If you pug any dungeons in Wildstar there are always fail players who stand in telegraphs, miss interrupts and just are overall bad players. If you ask most of them, they will tell you how epic they were in WoW.
You have stupid folk in any game. Not that you can afford in instances of Wow to stand anywhere you want. There sole problem is that hyper raid ready tanks are allowed in low instances. As there is ilvl limit to enter should be automatic downgrade for to strong players so they would not ruin experience to rest. Unless they form they own group.
Wildstar is a challenge.
Agree. Actually as every new game, nothing special. Once you get gasp of game, its mechanics, ... all become much more easy.
That is the main problem with the population now. People are lazy and don't want to put in the effort to do mechanics. They want to spend 20 minutes face rolling a dungeon and get their Epic Lootz.
People are going to post behind me and talk about bugs and bots and exploits as to why the game is bad. If you've been following the game at all, Carbine has all but eliminated the Bots, Fixes bugs on a weekly basis and same with exploits.
Agree fully with you. Never seen any company to fix so fast this kind of problems. And have not seen any spam in chat which is much more disturbing in other games then getting from time to to ime spam mail, easily reported.
So when you talk about how bad Wildstar is, maybe you should look at yourself and see if maybe your skills just weren't up to par to handle the game. Its easy to find fault with a game you cant master. So at the end of the day will Wildstar survive? Who knows, I hope it does. Im having a blast playing it. Working through GA atm and its as challenging a Lich King Heroic was. Gotta love a challenge.
At the end, no matter problem with lag for many players which will be eventually fixed ... Wildstar is one of rare games where I would gladly pay even more for regular sub ... but I just can not swallow down 1 toolbar. Period.
I don't hate the game, but I can explain the reasons why I really do not care if succeeds or not, and only one of these is related to apparent difficulty or the hardcore label: -
The attunement process which is nothing more than content padding.
The poor quest pathing and tedious generic quests.
The clusterfuck pvp.
The tedious and repetitive telegraph combat.
The poor balancing of content, huge difficulty spikes.
The irritating crap flashing up on your screen constantly, the timers, the challenges, the flashing text. It just grates very quickly.
But the main reason why I have little time for this game is that it brings nothing new to the genre, in fact it regresses to ten year old design choices. I just don't see the purpose of the game. I don't see why I should care whether is succeeds or not since it really just feels so lazy and cobbled together.
Haven't seen much "hate" for Wildstar as opposed to the "hate" for ESO, but I've seen many, like myself, just say, meh, this game isn't really as good as it was hyped to be or as it "should" be. It just isn't. Many people in my guild left before even hitting endgame. I stopped myself after the first month at level 45. I recently came back to finish my character as I just hated not hitting endgame in an MMO but once I did and started to run the dailies and start the attunement process my eyes glazed over, the same way they did while leveling because the content was boring me to tears. Combat and fights were the exact same, every single fight.
As to the challenge aspect, I think in making the "leveling" dungeons, and really they can't be called that because no one can really level in Wildstars pre endgame dungeons efficiently, so reliant on other people using interrupts at certain times, that are never really explained, made people give up on that aspect and not even want to think about endgame group content. I know that's how I was thinking about it. It had nothing to do with "skill" or lack of, but with the way group content is built in the game. I don't find it challenging to play my role 110% and to get nothing out of it because 1 or 4 others in the party couldn't play the same way. Of course, that's an argument for another topic and one I think many people don't seem to understand is there, this whole "dumbing down" vs. "challenge" crap in MMOs, when it's all based on how group content is designed cracks me up. The hyperbole...anyway...I digress.
Wildstar has some fun parts, I did enjoy early level PVP, but the game got to be so chaotic and like being fed a giant bag of candy that it tasted great but then made me sick after 5 minutes because I ate too dang much sugar....yeah, that's Wildstar. You can't even pick a nice lake in a beautiful zone to go fish in and relax or distress as nothing like that exists in the Wildstar "world". Again, lack of a true "world" to play and immerse in and more of a gamey arcade style annoying design. Will come back when they start to head in the "world" direction and away from the candy coated gamey raiding endgame design they currently have.
Been a member of these forums for 10 yrs or so I've seen my fair share of hate threads. For some reason Wildstar seems to have more than its fair share but why? Ive played every major MMO since EverQuest in 97 and honestly Wildstar is among the better of them. Is it perfect? Far from it. It is better than anything released in the last few years hands down.
Everquest: First and foremost great game for its time. DAOC: Great RvR overall solid game. WoW: Great in the early years til they dumbed it down. Aion: Bot infested waste of space. WaR: Fun game was sad to see it go. AoC: Fun game but no longevity. GW2: Nice graphics but a fail game. FFXIV: Great graphics, fun game but lacking Endgame. AA: Solid Game if you like PvP. A little light on PvE. Wildstar: Cartoony Graphics, Great combat system and a lot of Endgame.
Honestly in my opinion I think what hurt Wildstar the most was WoW. Not in the way you think. WoW hurt the entire MMO genre because it made players lazy. You could face roll any and all content in WoW, so when Wildstar came out it was a challenge players couldn't master. I see it on a daily basis. If you pug any dungeons in Wildstar there are always fail players who stand in telegraphs, miss interrupts and just are overall bad players. If you ask most of them, they will tell you how epic they were in WoW.
Wildstar is a challenge. That is the main problem with the population now. People are lazy and don't want to put in the effort to do mechanics. They want to spend 20 minutes face rolling a dungeon and get their Epic Lootz.
People are going to post behind me and talk about bugs and bots and exploits as to why the game is bad. If you've been following the game at all, Carbine has all but eliminated the Bots, Fixes bugs on a weekly basis and same with exploits.
So when you talk about how bad Wildstar is, maybe you should look at yourself and see if maybe your skills just weren't up to par to handle the game. Its easy to find fault with a game you cant master. So at the end of the day will Wildstar survive? Who knows, I hope it does. Im having a blast playing it. Working through GA atm and its as challenging a Lich King Heroic was. Gotta love a challenge.
i TLDR'd this.. skipped down to the end to see the meat of the post consisted basically of
"LOL IF YOU DONT LIKE IT< IT CUZ YOU SUCKZORZ"
maybe we actually just take issue with your pleading of the facts. Im sorry if you think that it was a great combat system that took epic proportions of skill. I instead only found a highly advertised game with tons on the surface, nothing underneath, and a combat system that required no skill and lacked depth due to limited activatable skills. couple that with a quest system that was so bad, you actually were sad you weren't grinding mobs, and you got yourself a game that was truly cringeworthy after only 2 weeks of playing it and lvl capping.
OP asks "why all the hate" and lists tons of features, but the one very reason:
Tired, rehashed, linear quest hub design. Folks are sick of it.
That's one reason why some people quit. Others however quit because the PvP is terrible. Others quit because they hate the combat system. Others quit because they hate the graphics. And others quit because they hate how the only thing to do at the end is raid.
To say there's just "one very reason" woefully ignores that there are a ton of reasons/problems that Wildstar has. Hence why it's diong so badly. You can expect a person to be extremely unhealthy if they had a cold, AIDs, pneumonia, ebola, and an arrow in the knee all at the same time.
EQ Next follower here. Why isnt Wildstar kicking WoW's ass? Do we seriously have to curb stomp 6 million trolls by the time my game gets released?
...That's essentially what being smug is. Acting like you're so blatantly right that even the thought of someone disagreeing with you is appallingly stupid and comical. you have a good chance of bullying them into believing you.
and by the way..i absolutely "love" when people say "SKILLS" when it comes to mmos..a carpenter has a skills, blacksmith has a skills, surgeon (doctors) have skills etc...but pushing button does NOT require f**ing skills!!! jeez...
and ws combat is absolutely horrible..mindless aoe fest
That's one reason why some people quit. Others however quit because the PvP is terrible. Others quit because they hate the combat system. Others quit because they hate the graphics. And others quit because they hate how the only thing to do at the end is raid.
To say there's just "one very reason" woefully ignores that there are a ton of reasons/problems that Wildstar has. Hence why it's diong so badly. You can expect a person to be extremely unhealthy if they had a cold, AIDs, pneumonia, ebola, and an arrow in the knee all at the same time.
I have a feeling that not to many people quit for the reasons I highlighted. I'm pretty sure that the number of people who went blindly into the game without knowing what the combat was about or what the graphics looked like is pretty low. Not saying that those weren't reasons for NOT getting the game in the first place. However, if someone bought the game knowing full well what the combat was about and how the game looked, just to quit and claim those very reasons later on, is well basically a tool.
Again, not saying that WS doesn't have issues and reasons for people to quit, but some of these being thrown about on this thread should be more thought out and verified with some common sense. I agree it's not just one reason, but some of the reasons being thrown around most likely are just being used by people who never liked or bought the game to begin with. Just because someone doesn't like the game and never bought it because of features X and Y doesn't mean that others are quitting the game because of X and Y. If someone quit a game over very well known features then they deserve to loose out on their money for not doing a smidgen of research at the most miniscule level.
Comments
This is my understanding of attunement as well. I always thought of it as meaning that you have to beat X dungeon/ encounter before you are eligible to move onto Y dungeon/ encounter. Not that you have to beat X dungeon/ encounter over and over and over again until you are bored beyond forbearance in what is basically content padding and a needless timesink.
I didn't have an issue with some of the attunement processes back in old TBC. I recall doing the Kara pre quest series to get the key to enter the place. It wasn't so bad and for the most part, I could solo most of it in an afternoon. Got a nice starter (upgradeable) epic ring from it too. After that, it was more about the order in which you raided, It was meant to prevent players from entering the raid, struggling with one encounter and skipping it and jumping from boss to boss in hopes of getting lucky and maybe some gear to go back and beat the previous boss you were probably undergeared for in the 1st place.
But by the time MoP rolled around, where you needed rep only obtainable in raids just to spend your raid currency?
What? I'm exalted with a particular faction, but the splinter faction that is inside the raid doesn't know who I am?
Nonsense.
they got the sub money, theyre gonna keep it sub to milk as much more money as they can before enough people catch on to their scheme. once its low enough they will probably implement a F2P model, but by then it will be too late...
looks like the President of the company's already stepping down and leaving , "Take the money and run" style..
but dont take my word for it.. heres the official article
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/419841/page/1
What the hell you going on here about? what made up facts? all i see is talk of low population mostly and end game which fails to attract hardcore players and alienates casuals.
And wildstar first has to reach that level of famous before you start comparing it to the fall from grace of famous people.
In other topic you asked for Blizzard statement regarding minority of their player base doing end game raiding and you got it. Now if you wilfully ignore it then it is another problem all together.
You ask for factual statement but when shown it to you..you ignore it.
Dont forget that in the older days your choice to play a mmo was limited to only a handfull at best.
Over the years we have hundreds of mmo's ranging from free to play to buy to play to subscription.
The market is so saturated that you realy need to make something that attracts all kinds of players.
Wildstar made no secret in their dev diary Hardcore raiding or GTFO statement, be it a joke or power slang to attract hardcore raiders.
Combine this with the clusterfuck of triangles in pvp and you created an mmo that doesnt fair well with the majority of the mmo players.
The game Engine is a like or dislike engine, i played both and must admit that the old mmo World of Warcraft still wins over Wildstar engine....
And i aint no wow fanboy :P
its sad they made so many design choices that scared a big chunk of potential players away before the game even launched.
Agreed.
Did not like many of this dumbing down ... but at the end I have adapted as Wow is still - for me at least - best game of all times and al genres.
True, more than all other games put together.
Agreed, wanted to return some day. Only game where I enjoyed pvp scenarios a lot.
For me very fun and active combat, limited toolbar (which I really hate) but with various weapons actually not at all and very fun. I'm not returning mainly because I did not like at the end "innovative" questing of theirs. Would still play if they would have classic questing and progress.
Wish that would be only problem.
Agreed. But that 1 toolbar is just too much for me. Main reason I left probably permanently. Same as for TSW. Removed that limitation would gladly return.
Not really. Most complex and complete game experience where nearly every of that zillion of spells can be used at some time and place.
You have stupid folk in any game. Not that you can afford in instances of Wow to stand anywhere you want. There sole problem is that hyper raid ready tanks are allowed in low instances. As there is ilvl limit to enter should be automatic downgrade for to strong players so they would not ruin experience to rest. Unless they form they own group.
Agree. Actually as every new game, nothing special. Once you get gasp of game, its mechanics, ... all become much more easy.
Agree fully with you. Never seen any company to fix so fast this kind of problems. And have not seen any spam in chat which is much more disturbing in other games then getting from time to to ime spam mail, easily reported.
At the end, no matter problem with lag for many players which will be eventually fixed ... Wildstar is one of rare games where I would gladly pay even more for regular sub ... but I just can not swallow down 1 toolbar. Period.
I don't hate the game, but I can explain the reasons why I really do not care if succeeds or not, and only one of these is related to apparent difficulty or the hardcore label: -
Haven't seen much "hate" for Wildstar as opposed to the "hate" for ESO, but I've seen many, like myself, just say, meh, this game isn't really as good as it was hyped to be or as it "should" be. It just isn't. Many people in my guild left before even hitting endgame. I stopped myself after the first month at level 45. I recently came back to finish my character as I just hated not hitting endgame in an MMO but once I did and started to run the dailies and start the attunement process my eyes glazed over, the same way they did while leveling because the content was boring me to tears. Combat and fights were the exact same, every single fight.
As to the challenge aspect, I think in making the "leveling" dungeons, and really they can't be called that because no one can really level in Wildstars pre endgame dungeons efficiently, so reliant on other people using interrupts at certain times, that are never really explained, made people give up on that aspect and not even want to think about endgame group content. I know that's how I was thinking about it. It had nothing to do with "skill" or lack of, but with the way group content is built in the game. I don't find it challenging to play my role 110% and to get nothing out of it because 1 or 4 others in the party couldn't play the same way. Of course, that's an argument for another topic and one I think many people don't seem to understand is there, this whole "dumbing down" vs. "challenge" crap in MMOs, when it's all based on how group content is designed cracks me up. The hyperbole...anyway...I digress.
Wildstar has some fun parts, I did enjoy early level PVP, but the game got to be so chaotic and like being fed a giant bag of candy that it tasted great but then made me sick after 5 minutes because I ate too dang much sugar....yeah, that's Wildstar. You can't even pick a nice lake in a beautiful zone to go fish in and relax or distress as nothing like that exists in the Wildstar "world". Again, lack of a true "world" to play and immerse in and more of a gamey arcade style annoying design. Will come back when they start to head in the "world" direction and away from the candy coated gamey raiding endgame design they currently have.
i TLDR'd this.. skipped down to the end to see the meat of the post consisted basically of
"LOL IF YOU DONT LIKE IT< IT CUZ YOU SUCKZORZ"
maybe we actually just take issue with your pleading of the facts. Im sorry if you think that it was a great combat system that took epic proportions of skill. I instead only found a highly advertised game with tons on the surface, nothing underneath, and a combat system that required no skill and lacked depth due to limited activatable skills. couple that with a quest system that was so bad, you actually were sad you weren't grinding mobs, and you got yourself a game that was truly cringeworthy after only 2 weeks of playing it and lvl capping.
That's one reason why some people quit. Others however quit because the PvP is terrible. Others quit because they hate the combat system. Others quit because they hate the graphics. And others quit because they hate how the only thing to do at the end is raid.
To say there's just "one very reason" woefully ignores that there are a ton of reasons/problems that Wildstar has. Hence why it's diong so badly. You can expect a person to be extremely unhealthy if they had a cold, AIDs, pneumonia, ebola, and an arrow in the knee all at the same time.
...That's essentially what being smug is. Acting like you're so blatantly right that even the thought of someone disagreeing with you is appallingly stupid and comical. you have a good chance of bullying them into believing you.
there is no hate...only the truth
and by the way..i absolutely "love" when people say "SKILLS" when it comes to mmos..a carpenter has a skills, blacksmith has a skills, surgeon (doctors) have skills etc...but pushing button does NOT require f**ing skills!!! jeez...
and ws combat is absolutely horrible..mindless aoe fest
I have a feeling that not to many people quit for the reasons I highlighted. I'm pretty sure that the number of people who went blindly into the game without knowing what the combat was about or what the graphics looked like is pretty low. Not saying that those weren't reasons for NOT getting the game in the first place. However, if someone bought the game knowing full well what the combat was about and how the game looked, just to quit and claim those very reasons later on, is well basically a tool.
Again, not saying that WS doesn't have issues and reasons for people to quit, but some of these being thrown about on this thread should be more thought out and verified with some common sense. I agree it's not just one reason, but some of the reasons being thrown around most likely are just being used by people who never liked or bought the game to begin with. Just because someone doesn't like the game and never bought it because of features X and Y doesn't mean that others are quitting the game because of X and Y. If someone quit a game over very well known features then they deserve to loose out on their money for not doing a smidgen of research at the most miniscule level.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor